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Reports of 2 arrested or killed in the operation and a policeman injured. I wonder if the 2 might the 8th and 9th attackers that got away in the Paris attack? https://mobile.twitter.com/khalidkhan787/status/666854652940521472
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Nov 18, 2015 05:58
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Xandu posted:Sort of on topic: how do you distinguish between a refugee and a migrant? I'm getting into a debate with a friend, who I generally respect, who is insisting that all these refugees fleeing to Europe are not strictly refugees, because part of the reason they're going to Europe (and Germany in particular) and not somewhere closer is for economic opportunity and a better life, rather than just fleeing violence and persecution. Part of me is like so what, good for them, but I'm not sure that's really the right argument here. I'm gonna say this is meaningless hair-splitting. They're a refugee when they arrive in the EU; once they're there, Shengen kicks in and they're free to move about within the EU. A refugee in America doesn't magically change status by crossing a state line to find a better job or to get subsidized healthcare or free college or whatever because similarly people have the right to move about freely inside the overall borders once they're in on whatever terms. I realize EU countries aren't quite American states but Shengen definitely blurs that line in terms of legitimate expectations of freedom of movement once inside the larger union.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:56
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A refugee is someone who is literally seeking refuge, and as such has a protected status under the UN. Countries have legal obligations to help and assist refugees that arrive at their borders. Migrants are selfish brown people come to steal all the jobs, while lazing around on benefits because they are too stupid to work, but cunning enough to play the system far more egregiously than the natives. That's what all the press tells me anyway. 
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Nov 18, 2015 07:39
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To be precise and maybe even pedantic - "Refugee" in the EU is actually a granted status that generates specific rights. But you're not a refugee when you arrive in Greece or Italy or wherever: you're an asylum seeker first. When you get to the border you have to ask for asylum, you get a temporary permit but your movements may be restrained and you may be placed into a camp. Your request is processed by the country where you made the request (that's why Greece and Italy are under such strain) and only then do you become a refugee, once it has been accepted. Being a refugee gives you the right to travel within the borders of Schengen, and not to be deported. Special protections are set in place if you can show that you are personally under some form of threat (death penalty, torture, and so on). Imo there should be clear paths for asylum seekers to get into the EU: entry camps in Greece and Italy and Turkey and Bulgaria, held by the EU, with decent checkpoints and actual means set in place by EU funds to ensure a safe screening of asylum seekers. Zizek calls for the militarization of this process and I'm not too far from agreeing on this with him.
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Nov 18, 2015 08:35
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The usual arguments I hear in favour of using the term "migrant" are that not all of the asylum seekers are actually fleeing a "proper war" and that some of them have been living (and working) for years in reasonably stable countries like Russia and Turkey. I think most people would agree Syrians qualify for asylum/refugee status, but apparently some asylum seekers are from countries that are merely lovely and not actually embroiled in war. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics According to the statistics, there are a bunch of people from Kosovo and Serbia seeking asylum for example. Why? Are those countries actually dangerous (if so, it isn't being talked about in the media here) or are the statistics misleading somehow?
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Nov 18, 2015 08:54
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Apoffys posted:The usual arguments I hear in favour of using the term "migrant" are that not all of the asylum seekers are actually fleeing a "proper war" and that some of them have been living (and working) for years in reasonably stable countries like Russia and Turkey. I think most people would agree Syrians qualify for asylum/refugee status, but apparently some asylum seekers are from countries that are merely lovely and not actually embroiled in war. There has been major political unrest in Kosovo since the middle of last year which has driven a sharp increase in asylum claims, it is probably worth pointing out that the majority of asylum claims in the EU are rejected - can't find any concrete figures by country of origin but the UKs data for 2013 shows that the overwhelming majority of applicants from Kosovo where not granted refugee status or humanitarian asylum, some where given leave to remain but this is partly influenced by the presence of family members already in the country (who may have arrived during the war). I think most of the Serbian claimants are either ethnic Albanians or Roma seeking humanitarian asylum citing discrimination. There has been a push to reform the asylum system in the EU recently, as it stands each case is processed individually often based on individual countries own criteria - there has been attempts to create a "safe countries" list that would automatically void a refugee or humanitarian asylum claim coming from a person originating from that country, skipping over the individual investigative part.
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Nov 18, 2015 11:55
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:What are some of the most ridiculous (credible) Gaddafi stories out there? I know of the translator fainting at the UN, the throwing of papers at the UN, and the Condie scrapbook, but I can't remember any more and I know there were a few. Anybody help? I remember reading this a long time ago: http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-26609883.html Google Translate does a decent enough job to get the gist of it.
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Nov 18, 2015 12:15
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could someone explain why Erdogan/Turkey are so opposed to Kurds having any kind of agency?
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Nov 18, 2015 12:19
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One of the tragedies of the day: https://twitter.com/MarquardtA/status/666917183067418624
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Nov 18, 2015 12:21
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bencreateddisco posted:could someone explain why Erdogan/Turkey are so opposed to Kurds having any kind of agency? This map. 
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Nov 18, 2015 12:23
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Apoffys posted:According to the statistics, there are a bunch of people from Kosovo and Serbia seeking asylum for example. Why? Are those countries actually dangerous (if so, it isn't being talked about in the media here) or are the statistics misleading somehow? I've been helping with administration at a migration office lately, so I can give some insight in this. A lot of the people applying for asylum from former Yugoslavia and Albania claim that they flee from vendettas, family feuds where relatives are attacked by a feuding family despite not being personally involved in the matter. Their applications are generally denied, and they get sent home. Are those countries safe, and can we really trust that the local authorities will protect them once they get back? Honestly, I'm doubtful. But a lot of the people coming from Albania want to move because it is an underdeveloped economic hellhole with the lowest BNP per capita in Europe (outside Ukraine) and unemployment figures just south of 20%. E: for example, last year 1 400 Albanians applied for asylum in Sweden, and 19 were granted. 500 Bosniaks applied, 15 were granted. You're more likely to get asylum coming from India (3%). lilljonas fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 13:32
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:What are some of the most ridiculous (credible) Gaddafi stories out there? I know of the translator fainting at the UN, the throwing of papers at the UN, and the Condie scrapbook, but I can't remember any more and I know there were a few. Anybody help? You seem to have forgotten the Condi song and music video, "Black Rose in the White House."
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Nov 18, 2015 14:18
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Does anyone remember that story from I/P of a guy running up to an ISF soldier and screaming I AM DAESH before trying to grab his pistol and being gunned down in short order?
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Nov 18, 2015 15:25
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Blue Footed Booby posted:You seem to have forgotten the Condi song and music video, "Black Rose in the White House." http://youtu.be/fQukMSCmSrQ Darkman Fanpage fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 15:29
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Darkman Fanpage posted:What? Please find and link this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQukMSCmSrQ
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Nov 18, 2015 15:31
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BBC news story with miscellaneous information: Air strikes on IS stronghold of Raqqa 'kill 33 militants' quote:The Syrian Observatory also said that IS members and dozens of the families of senior members had begun leaving Raqqa for Mosul because of security concerns. quote:But on Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned Western countries that if they wanted to mobilise a "genuinely global coalition" against IS they would have to drop their demand that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad step down. 
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Nov 18, 2015 15:37
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At this point I don't care whether or not Assad steps down. The end result is going to be the same regardless of whether or not Assad is the puppet ruler of the rump Syrian state.
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Nov 18, 2015 15:43
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Darkman Fanpage posted:At this point I don't care whether or not Assad steps down. The end result is going to be the same regardless of whether or not Assad is the puppet ruler of the rump Syrian state. 
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Nov 18, 2015 15:55
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What difference does it make? Assad being gone isn't going to make the Russians, Iranians, Hezbollah, or any of the Shia militias disappear. The between Shia and Sunni will continue whether or not Assad is head of the Syrian state or not.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:09
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Darkman Fanpage posted:What difference does it make? Assad being gone isn't going to make the Russians, Iranians, Hezbollah, or any of the Shia militias disappear. The between Shia and Sunni will continue whether or not Assad is head of the Syrian state or not. fucker certainly deserves a painful and spectacular death though.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:16
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Darkman Fanpage posted:What difference does it make? Assad being gone isn't going to make the Russians, Iranians, Hezbollah, or any of the Shia militias disappear. The between Shia and Sunni will continue whether or not Assad is head of the Syrian state or not. Okay better question, Will Syria ever really be a whole country again? Because the only way I see this happening is if the entirety of the sunni population "disappears into smoke". And a muslim holocaust isn't a desirable thing.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:21
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There are lots of ways to imagine it: Alawite rump state by the coast, Kurdish state in Syria and Iraq, Shia state carved out of Iraq, Sunni state spanning the former territory between the two countries and granted coastal access?
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Nov 18, 2015 16:26
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goose fleet posted:There are lots of ways to imagine it: Alawite rump state by the coast, Kurdish state in Syria and Iraq, Shia state carved out of Iraq, Sunni state spanning the former territory between the two countries and granted coastal access? That isn't a whole state. That's like 6 different states.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:32
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I really can't see either country remaining intact after so many years of horrible war. They'll probably split up on ethnic/religious lines.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:35
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goose fleet posted:There are lots of ways to imagine it: Alawite rump state by the coast, Kurdish state in Syria and Iraq, Shia state carved out of Iraq, Sunni state spanning the former territory between the two countries and granted coastal access? Turkey would rather leave NATO and/or directly declare war then allow a formal Kurdish state to exist, they would kill it in the crib once the dust settled. Assad (and the Iranians/Russians) would have to be forced to give up the territory they have now which includes a myriad of non-Alawite minorities, which they wouldn't want to do. Also the Sunni areas would be mostly bombed out wasteland at that point (if not already). Syria is a broken state but most of the powers would rather it formally be a united entity in writing at least.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:43
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Holy gently caress that's a tiny bomb http://abcnews.go.com/International/isis-claims-bomb-hidden-soda-russian-airliner/story?id=35278278
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Nov 18, 2015 16:47
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WaPo's man in Moscow says there's a rumor that the joint parliamentary session on Friday will ask Putin to authorize ground forces in Syria.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:48
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Ardennes posted:Turkey would rather leave NATO and/or directly declare war then allow a formal Kurdish state to exist, they would kill it in the crib once the dust settled. Assad (and the Iranians/Russians) would have to be forced to give up the territory they have now which includes a myriad of non-Alawite minorities, which they wouldn't want to do. Also the Sunni areas would be mostly bombed out wasteland at that point (if not already). I believe you'll find Syria is already totally united behind its legitimate President. He stands ready to fight any Israeli or Western agents who seek to divide Syria for their own gain.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:50
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Xandu posted:Holy gently caress that's a tiny bomb Can't say I'm anything but skeptical about this.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:53
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Volkerball posted:I believe you'll find Syria is already totally united behind its legitimate President. He stands ready to fight any Israeli or Western agents who seek to divide Syria for their own gain. The fact that the talks for a "transition" gaining momentum speaks to the fact that the emphasis as already shifted to keeping Syria "whole" even through it will be fundamentally broken for generations.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:57
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my dad posted:Can't say I'm anything but skeptical about this. Cheryl Rofer, a professional chemist who tweets about these things, said that there's no explosive visible. Either it's just the container or it's some disinformation.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:58
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MothraAttack posted:WaPo's man in Moscow says there's a rumor that the joint parliamentary session on Friday will ask Putin to authorize ground forces in Syria. Great. time to sink a 100,000 man strong army into the middle east on a shrinking economy.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:59
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Xandu posted:Holy gently caress that's a tiny bomb The Russians are claiming that the bomb was one kilogram in weight, and I have a really hard time believing that you could fit a kg of material into that can. Especially explosive material that would blow off the tail section of a plane.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:59
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Ardennes posted:The fact that the talks for a "transition" gaining momentum speaks to the fact that the emphasis as already shifted to keeping Syria "whole" even through it will be fundamentally broken for generations. There was never an emphasis to divide Syria that we are shifting from. Nobody wants Syria divided except the Kurds, and they already de facto have what they want. But the regime wants all of Syria under its rule, and the opposition wants the regime destroyed and replaced. I don't think anyone is in favor of partition. They all want to win or die trying.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:03
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suboptimal posted:The Russians are claiming that the bomb was one kilogram in weight, and I have a really hard time believing that you could fit a kg of material into that can. Especially explosive material that would blow off the tail section of a plane. It would have to be a good deal denser than water to get 1 kilo into a can.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:03
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So what does ISIS do with the infrastructure they inherited? I mean there's a total ban on chemistry so obviously a lot of poo poo is just rusting away. And does ISIS do construction that we know of? Are they building anything that will outlast them like roads/highways? And I know they IED everything when they leave, but is there anymore scorched earth type of doctrine that goes on when they retreat?  Lol Call of duty photoshops for ISIS propaganda WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 17:06
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MothraAttack posted:Cheryl Rofer, a professional chemist who tweets about these things, said that there's no explosive visible. Either it's just the container or it's some disinformation. I mean, presumably it's not the actual bomb but a re-creation Edit: never mind, didn't realize that was published by Isis
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Nov 18, 2015 17:12
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suboptimal posted:The Russians are claiming that the bomb was one kilogram in weight, and I have a really hard time believing that you could fit a kg of material into that can. Especially explosive material that would blow off the tail section of a plane. More to the point, the can seems more intact than would be expected for something that had blown up. edit: oh, unless it was a 'before' pic from ISIS
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Nov 18, 2015 17:17
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suboptimal posted:The Russians are claiming that the bomb was one kilogram in weight, and I have a really hard time believing that you could fit a kg of material into that can. Especially explosive material that would blow off the tail section of a plane. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34840943 They're claiming it's "equivalent to up to 1kg of TNT", which isn't the same thing as actually being 1kg. It's a measure of how powerful it was, not how big it was.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:21
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Apoffys posted:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34840943 That's an important distinction to make, then. Anyone aware of any side by side comparisons of various types of explosives and their yield relative to weight, or is that type of info classified?
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Nov 18, 2015 17:23
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