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MothraAttack posted:Mother fuckers. Russia has been "painting" American planes supporting anti-IS fighters (YPG, SDF) in northern Syria with their new anti-air systems. The result? The U.S. has grounded its manned fleet for northern Syria, effectively halting all American CAS against ISIs. Considering the unbelievable shitshow this would cause if they even tried to shoot down an American plane, I think this is a bluff you could fairly safely call. Though considering its the Russians I could be wrong.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:39
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Ikasuhito posted:Considering the unbelievable shitshow this would cause if they even tried to shoot down an American plane, I think this is a bluff you could fairly safely call. Drunk Russians have been known to fire off missiles quite rapidly before.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:41
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Well, it looks like YPG might be ditching the Americans for Russia, anyway. http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2015/12/17/ypg-reportedly-preparing-for-jarabulus-offensive-with-russian-help
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Dec 17, 2015 18:45
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Ikasuhito posted:Considering the unbelievable shitshow this would cause if they even tried to shoot down an American plane, I think this is a bluff you could fairly safely call. It's not that it's Russian necessarily but dumber poo poo has happened and the last thing US foreign policy wants is a dead or captured airman on national news. Russia is still playing a very stupid, callous game here that won't even tangibly net them a benefit in Syria.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:46
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Ikasuhito posted:Considering the unbelievable shitshow this would cause if they even tried to shoot down an American plane, I think this is a bluff you could fairly safely call. Yeah I think the possibility of Russia trying to down a U.S. plane are remote but, are they allowing these to be manned by Syrian forces? Because if so, firing at U.S. planes is probably a really possibility. More to the point, why do they need anit-air systems in northern Syria in the first place? It's not like ISIS or the rebels have combat aircraft; the only combat aircraft in the area belongs to either Russia or the U.S. coalition. So why are they even there?
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Dec 17, 2015 18:51
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The terrorists win again. 
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Dec 17, 2015 18:52
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radical meme posted:Yeah I think the possibility of Russia trying to down a U.S. plane are remote but, are they allowing these to be manned by Syrian forces? Because if so, firing at U.S. planes is probably a really possibility. More to the point, why do they need anit-air systems in northern Syria in the first place? It's not like ISIS or the rebels have combat aircraft; the only combat aircraft in the area belongs to either Russia or the U.S. coalition. So why are they even there? Because they wanted to posture like they were doing something to take the fight to Turkey over the Russian jet being sit down.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:53
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MothraAttack posted:Well, it looks like YPG might be ditching the Americans for Russia, anyway. Isn't the Daily Sabah very pro-AKP? I'd take an article like that with a grain of salt unless it's corroborated somewhere else
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Dec 17, 2015 18:56
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Volkerball posted:Because they wanted to posture like they were doing something to take the fight to Turkey over the Russian jet being sit down. If Russia can take over America's role in providing CAS to Kurds, then Russia can support an independent Kurdistan to gently caress with Turkey. It also helps that reducing American airstrikes in Syria fucks the Obama administration, and the likelyhood of a Hillary presidency. I'm sure Putin hasn't forgiven Hillary for when she thought that Medvedev would take Putin's place.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:57
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Volkerball posted:The terrorists win again. Is not fair. ISIS grognards got the advanced edition of Twilight Struggle:Syria Edition and they took for themselves the easier faction.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:00
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Flavahbeast posted:Isn't the Daily Sabah very pro-AKP? I'd take an article like that with a grain of salt unless it's corroborated somewhere else Yeah, the Daily Sabah is not exactly 100% reliable. Though its worth pointing out Russia has been working to cultivate relations with the PYD, inviting Salih Muslim to Moscow to attend their brokered talks. Last time Salih Muslim tried to visit the USA his visa application was rejected.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:02
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Tei posted:Is not fair. ISIS grognards got the advanced edition of Twilight Struggle:Syria Edition and they took for themselves the easier faction. Obviously this is nice for ISIS, but I was referring to Putin. Painting targets was obviously meant to make the US fear an attack, and it worked. I'm sure some pissed off republican generals will have a lot to say about what happened here closer to the election, and it's not going to look good.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:04
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Volkerball posted:Because they wanted to posture like they were doing something to take the fight to Turkey over the Russian jet being sit down. Yeah. It should be pretty clear why they're there, even if their actual use is rather obscure. Basically threatening Turkey to not shoot down another Russian jet or else. Its pretty dumb and provocative to target everything in the region though. Avoiding war between Russia and the US is a high priority for me.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:04
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Count Roland posted:Yeah. It should be pretty clear why they're there, even if their actual use is rather obscure. Basically threatening Turkey to not shoot down another Russian jet or else. I think they aren't there as a threat, the missiles are there to shoot down any Turkish jet attacking Kurdish positions.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:09
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Charliegrs posted:Wasn't the original think tank called "Project for the New American Century"? Or as I call it "3/4s of the Bush Administration plan out 9/11 and the Iraq war before they are even elected " Seriously anyone who hasn't heard about PNAC go look it up. It's creepy as hell. The principal people behind the original PNAC are Rubio's main foreign policy advisors, i.e. Robert Kagan, Eliot Abrams,etc. I made a big efforts post on it in the US politics thread. Also, Rubio, by his own words, is the most neo-conservative candidate outside Lindsay Graham, a drawling madman. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:What the gently caress is he doing on HuffPo then? Dunno. But here's a pretty interesting article about what he's up to now (circa 2009). quote:Perhaps the Albergo's most intriguing and influential habitué these days is Alastair Crooke, a former British intelligence agent who brokered deals with the IRA, funneled arms to the mujahideen in Afghanistan, spent time with rebel groups in the jungles of Colombia, and later served as Tony Blair's eyes and ears in the Middle East. In late 2003, after three decades as a field officer, he was called home and, in classic British bureaucratic fashion, given a royal honor for his service and then fired from his job. It was rumored in London and in Jerusalem that Crooke had alienated the British prime minister by becoming too close with militant Islamists. Not long after, he reemerged as the founder of Conflicts Forum, a Beirut-based group that hosts conferences and other events under the slogan "Listening to Political Islam, Recognizing Resistance." http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/spy-who-loved-hamas-and-hezbollah-and-iran
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Dec 17, 2015 19:10
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My Imaginary GF posted:I think they aren't there as a threat, the missiles are there to shoot down any Turkish jet attacking Kurdish positions. I doubt they could tell the difference between US and Turkish aircraft, and even if they could, the bombing campaign is almost exclusively limited to pkk positions in Iraq. Shooting anything down would he a far less black and white situation than jets repeatedly flying over Turkish airspace.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:12
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In Russia, tourists don't run away from war, they run towards it.quote:A deadly conflict zone that has seen more than four million of its own citizens flee the country seems unlikely to make anyone's travel wish list for 2016, but Russian travel agency Megapolis thinks otherwise. http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/travel/russia-vacations-syria-conflict/index.html
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Dec 17, 2015 19:19
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I don't see why the U.S. backs down from this. Avoiding WW3 is a priority with me as well, but you can't just let them dictate policy like that. Give Putin an inch and he'll take a mile. There's no way Putin wants a scenario where they accidentally take down an American plane, right?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:21
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TheFallenEvincar posted:I don't see why the U.S. backs down from this. Avoiding WW3 is a priority with me as well, but you can't just let them dictate policy like that. Give Putin an inch and he'll take a mile. There's no way Putin wants a scenario where they accidentally take down an American plane, right? It ain't American airspace that the plane would be shot down in. What happens after an American plane is shot down?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:22
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Is it going to help ISIS? long term or short term.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:24
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So is this just CAS--meaning sorties of other sorts will continue? I'm having a hard time imagining a better use for the F-22 than this, but I don't see CAS singled out in the article.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:27
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My Imaginary GF posted:It ain't American airspace that the plane would be shot down in. What happens after an American plane is shot down? It would probably depend on where he landed. Turkey, Assad, or Kurd controlled: they'd probably just hand him back over. Rebel controlled: It would be a bit more of a coin toss. IS controlled: They make him a star of his own internet video, with all the horrors that might entail.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:29
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Blue Footed Booby posted:So is this just CAS--meaning sorties of other sorts will continue? I'm having a hard time imagining a better use for the F-22 than this, but I don't see CAS singled out in the article. F-22s have no use here since there's no air-to-air combat to be had.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:33
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Blue Footed Booby posted:So is this just CAS--meaning sorties of other sorts will continue? I'm having a hard time imagining a better use for the F-22 than this, but I don't see CAS singled out in the article. If we deploy F-22's, you should consider investing in high quality sunblock, because it means that we've decided to go to war with Russia.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:It ain't American airspace that the plane would be shot down in. What happens after an American plane is shot down? Keep your fingers crossed that trump isn't in office?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:36
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Bait and Swatch posted:Keep your fingers crossed that trump isn't in office? Seems unlikely given that Trump wants to be bros with Putin and Putin is all for it.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:37
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Kaal posted:F-22s have no use here since there's no air-to-air combat to be had. I thought they could do strikes. Does anyone else smell burned toast?
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Dec 17, 2015 19:41
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icantfindaname posted:the "anti-semite" defense of israel is one thing, but using it for the neocons has always been hilarious I was making a joke. Like how you made a joke icantfindaname posted:you can't kill them until you get their phylactery.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:43
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Volkerball posted:Seems unlikely given that Trump wants to be bros with Putin and Putin is all for it. poo poo sticks to poo poo.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:46
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Volkerball posted:Seems unlikely given that Trump wants to be bros with Putin and Putin is all for it. He's so erratic there is no way to predict the outcome of anything if trump were to be in office. He would probably get along best with N. Korea.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:47
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Volkerball posted:Seems unlikely given that Trump wants to be bros with Putin and Putin is all for it. He'd be high fiving him right up until F-18s start getting plucked from the sky I imagine.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:49
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My Imaginary GF posted:It ain't American airspace that the plane would be shot down in. What happens after an American plane is shot down? This is a very salient point. Presence in Syria by U.S. aircraft/military is uninvited and technically not allowed--we are only there because nobody stopped us. With the Russians there--under invitation by the Assad government--Syria now has the ability to control its airspace. The presence of the AA weaponry is therefore understandable, and it is entirely appropriate that the U.S. should discontinue flying over Syrian airspace. Love, Vitalis
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Dec 17, 2015 19:52
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Thump! posted:He'd be high fiving him right up until F-18s start getting plucked from the sky I imagine. My point is that Russia and the US would probably come to some sort of grand salt the earth bargain, so there'd be no need for either side to have their finger on the trigger to begin with.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:54
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Volkerball posted:My point is that Russia and the US would probably come to some sort of grand salt the earth bargain, so there'd be no need for either side to have their finger on the trigger to begin with. If we get England in on it, we can probably take the Germans Wait
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Dec 17, 2015 20:17
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Vitalis Jackson posted:This is a very salient point. Presence in Syria by U.S. aircraft/military is uninvited and technically not allowed--we are only there because nobody stopped us. With the Russians there--under invitation by the Assad government--Syria now has the ability to control its airspace. The presence of the AA weaponry is therefore understandable, and it is entirely appropriate that the U.S. should discontinue flying over Syrian airspace. That would be fine if the US, France etc wasn't at war with a pseudo-state in Syrian territory.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:18
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While ya'll were discussing serious and actual stuff like Trump starting the third world War, an agreement has been reached between the Libyan factions brokered by the United Nations. Eu chief diplomat Mogherini was pretty happy about it.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:34
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So what's Russia's motive for locking Air Defenses at Anti-ISIS Jets? Does Putin want to push America out of the fight so he can be look like the international "hero" that slayed the ISIS menace? Or is it Russia just trying to goad us into playing on their terms
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Dec 17, 2015 21:45
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Probably just bored Russian AA crews loving around
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Dec 17, 2015 21:46
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Cippalippus posted:While ya'll were discussing serious and actual stuff like Trump starting the third world War, an agreement has been reached between the Libyan factions brokered by the United Nations. Eu chief diplomat Mogherini was pretty happy about it. Hopefully this can actually be implemented successfully, but sticking points like this: "The chiefs of the two rival parliaments have already rejected the U.N. deal and called for more time to negotiate a Libyan initiative" Don't give me a lot of confidence. It is definitely a step forward though.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:51
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Flavahbeast posted:Probably just bored Russian AA crews loving around
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Dec 17, 2015 21:57
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