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Is there anywhere a concise summary of the war in Syria? I didn't pay much attention to who controlled what and when until fairly recently, leaving a lot of years in the dark for me.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:02
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Count Roland posted:Is there anywhere a concise summary of the war in Syria? I didn't pay much attention to who controlled what and when until fairly recently, leaving a lot of years in the dark for me. Our allies are fighting our allies while our enemies are helping our enemies; and in the middle of all that, the civilians suffer and die by the thousands.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:10
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Lol at describing the battle for Aleppo city as stagnant. The Syrian govt forces were effectively besieged by Al Nusra on 2 separate occasions only for the tables to turn and Al Nusra to be besieged leading to the end of the battle. Yeah im sure the Syrian govt only had a token force fighting for the largest city in Syria... 
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Jul 11, 2017 23:49
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Volkerball posted:^^^^^ Yeah, the original offensive that set up the front lines in Aleppo that held for years was primarily run by a group called Liwa al-Tawheed and their leader Haji Mara. They weren't jihadists by any stretch. The regime managed to take him out with a targeted assassination, but Omar al-Shishani and his family were living comfortably in the Aleppo countryside while he was in charge of the ISIS offensive there. Oh really? 🤔 Let's just do a quick wiki on this noble group that were just trying to liberate Aleppo city. quote:The al-Tawhid Brigade was formed in 2012.[16][17] Reportedly backed by Qatar,[18] al-Tawhid was considered one of the biggest groups in northern Syria, dominating much of the insurgency around Aleppo.[17] What true and noble warriors fighting for the Syrian people
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Jul 11, 2017 23:57
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thatfatkid posted:Lol at describing the battle for Aleppo city as stagnant. The Syrian govt forces were effectively besieged by Al Nusra on 2 separate occasions only for the tables to turn and Al Nusra to be besieged leading to the end of the battle. Yeah im sure the Syrian govt only had a token force fighting for the largest city in Syria... "Effectively besieged" lmao. thatfatkid posted:Oh really? 🤔 Let's just do a quick wiki on this noble group that were just trying to liberate Aleppo city. Not the Muslim Brotherhood! 
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Jul 12, 2017 00:36
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Volkerball posted:Not the Muslim Brotherhood! The call for sharia law is more damning. Do you have any information or know of any articles that could give broader insight?
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Jul 12, 2017 00:41
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Brother Friendship posted:The call for sharia law is more damning. Do you have any information or know of any articles that could give broader insight? It's really not. There's a lot of political Islamist parties that call for sharia law without being terrorists. The Muslim Brotherhood being one of those. It's a symbol for regressive conservative ideology in that case, but as part of a multi-party democracy, it beats the hell out of a despotic police state. Anyways, VICE embedded with liwa al-tawheed back before Haji Mara died, and he's featured in their video report. https://youtu.be/7CeP81s1KdM Haji Mara is an alias for Abdul Qader Saleh, who was a lawyer or some poo poo in Syria before the war kicked off. As fighting intensified and Nusra became more prominent, he made it a rule that only native born Syrians could join al-Tawheed, as a rejection of the up and coming pipeline that was empowering Nusra relative to the FSA, and changing the identity of the revolution. His groups legacy was the fighting in Aleppo in 2013, in which they were at the forefront of probably the most successful period of the war for the rebel cause. Those gains resulted in an increased Iranian and Hezbollah presence in Syria, so when Saleh was assassinated, things turned around. He's still remembered as a hero of the revolution and a reminder of when things were better. He's probably 2nd to Abdel Basset Saroot when it comes to men who were the face of the revolution. He's on the revolution mural in Kafranbel.  To his right is Mashaal Tammo.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:02
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Saying the Muslim brotherhood shouldn't be part of a multiparty democracy is like saying that Americans shouldn't be allowed democracy because then they'll have the GOP as one of their largest parties, it's insane, all people and all democracies have conservative kooks in their elections and parliaments.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:07
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Sharia law: Cool and good. I didn't realise totally not jihadist militias were such fans of implementing Sharia law.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:16
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The problem with the Muslim Brotherhood is that they don't want a multiparty democracy. They want a Muslim Brotherhood democracy.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:17
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Darkman Fanpage posted:The problem with the Muslim Brotherhood is that they don't want a multiparty democracy. They want a Muslim Brotherhood democracy. except you know the fact that they've campaigned multi-party elections at every opportunity and were either violently put down for it like in egypt or sieged like in Palestine and that they're capable of forming joint coalition governments like in Tunisia. You can criticize them for their skeeviness and sleaziness and conservative outlooks all you want, but they're a far sight preferable to have in a body politic rather than the black hole of total fascism that's scourges the arab world.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:30
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thatfatkid posted:Sharia law: Cool and good. Yeah, a lot of poo poo goes over your head.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:31
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Volkerball posted:Yeah, a lot of poo poo goes over your head. a bashar supporter is a stupid retard?! why I never!
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Jul 12, 2017 01:32
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Attempting to implement Sharia law and literally fighting in a coalition with Al Qaeda: Cool and good. Totally not something a jihadist militia would do.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:50
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Al-Saqr posted:Saying the Muslim brotherhood shouldn't be part of a multiparty democracy is like saying that Americans shouldn't be allowed democracy because then they'll have the GOP as one of their largest parties
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Jul 12, 2017 01:58
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Gen. Ripper posted:The Republican Party nominated and elected Donald Trump. You are not making a convincing argument in favor of democracy here. Yeah if only we had Assad instead.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:09
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Should I support the avowedly socialist PYD or the right-wing capitalist Muslim Brotherhood?
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Jul 12, 2017 02:31
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To be fair, letting the rebel groups kill each other was a smart strategy and it clearly paid off. Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. It was in Assad's best interests to let the rebel manpower get sapped by inter-rebel conflict and ISIS wasn't an existential threat to any of his core territories in the west. It was also in ISIS' best interests to avoid provoking the regime too much during the period where ISIS was crushing & consolidating all the smaller groups out west. It made strategic sense to both of them to minimize fighting until their shared enemies had been destroyed. Just like it makes strategic sense to let the PYD crush ISIS now and just roll them up in a few years when the US betrays them.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:33
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Panzeh posted:Should I support the avowedly socialist PYD or the right-wing capitalist Muslim Brotherhood? As a dedicated socialist, I'm begging you, please stop posting in this thread.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:46
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People ITT are holding up a view that is shared by the most vile and debased dictators and the most right wing forces around the globe - that the Muslim Brotherhood is equivalent to Al Qaeda.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:56
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I'm afraid my knowledge of the Muslim Brotherhood mostly extends to a video of one of its leaders arguing against a mandated headscarf policy that a rival group/leader was trying to enforce - during a presentation around the 50s. One of the crowd shouted 'Make him wear one' which caused a few chuckles. They certainly seem progressive and good-humoured in the video, but it's been 70 odd years since then.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:37
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Some drone footage of Mosul. https://twitter.com/JonSnowPasha/status/884987366317989894
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Jul 12, 2017 06:09
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Volkerball posted:Some drone footage of Mosul. This is what Raqqa will look like once we're done with it.
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Jul 12, 2017 06:19
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I've read the ISF crack units that took part in Mosul suffered 40% casualties on average. Mosul may have been secured, but at the loss of what seems to be a disintegration of Iraq's military backbone. Hopefully this won't lead to another round of anarchy. https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2017/7/10/iraqs-elite-forces-suffered-devastating-losses-in-mosul-battle
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Jul 12, 2017 08:10
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Duckbag posted:As a dedicated socialist, I'm begging you, please stop posting in this thread. Why? Tired of differing perspectives on the Syrian Civil War?
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Jul 12, 2017 10:34
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Because your gimmick is really tedious and played out.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:39
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steinrokkan posted:Because your gimmick is really tedious and played out. More played out than the 'Assad did nothing wrong' or 'The glorious Syrian Revolution derailed by the US not being their airforce' gimmicks? Just because I don't find the discussions of sarin gas to be particularly compelling doesn't mean I don't want them to happen. It's an internet thread, there's plenty of space for many discussions.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:44
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Panzeh posted:More played out than the 'Assad did nothing wrong' or 'The glorious Syrian Revolution derailed by the US not being their airforce' gimmicks? You never discuss though, you just poo poo post. If you truly wanted to support their cause you would take effort to not look like a gimmick posting troll at every opportunity you find.
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Jul 12, 2017 11:13
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Volkerball posted:Some drone footage of Mosul. Good lord, how do you even start to fix something like that?
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Jul 12, 2017 11:35
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Kekekela posted:Good lord, how do you even start to fix something like that? Clean away the massive amount of rubble and hope for a Marshall plan to finance the colossal cost of rebuilding.
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Jul 12, 2017 11:40
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Darkman Fanpage posted:The problem with the Muslim Brotherhood is that they don't want a multiparty democracy. They want a Muslim Brotherhood democracy. They probably want go into turkey democracy direction once they get power. The best kind of democracy's! At least they get rid of the despotic police state. right? Right??
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Jul 12, 2017 11:42
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Panzeh posted:Why? Tired of differing perspectives on the Syrian Civil War? No, because ideology is a form of false consciousness and blinds the masses to the truth of class struggle. A true Marxist would focus on material circumstances, but all I've ever heard you do is spout slogans. Being a socialist isn't about shouting "hooray socialism!" It takes hard work and careful thought and a dedication to seeing the world for what it is, not for what people say it is. Even if those people call themselves socialists. I love the idea of Democratic Confederalism, but the PKK reeks of vanguardism. All that talk about freedom will come to nothing if all it is is talk. If we want real socialism and real democracy in North Syria, we can't just promote "the party" we have to challenge it, because class struggle isn't about money, it's about power and a state where one class is allowed to gather all the power for itself can never be socialist, even (perhaps especially) if the powerful class believe themselves to be the most socialist of all. What they need right now isn't cheerleading, it's healthy dissent. As for the rest of the opposition, just because someone doesn't put "socialist" on their business card doesn't make them an enemy of the people. That way lies madness. Dedicated socialists will always be outnumbered by people who are just trying to get by, but the material dialectic doesn't care. Materialism is about seeing beyond the ideologies that divide us and finding common cause with the oppressed everywhere. The leadership of Ahrar and Jaysh and the FSA may be infested with blind ideologues and aspiring warlords, but the people under them are fighting for most of the same things the YPG are -- freedom, self-determination, survival. Hell, even a lot of "Assadians" are just trying to survive in a world gone crazy. By all means, denounce them when they hurt people, oppress people, or make the war a little worse for everyone involved. Get cynical and tactical and mean. Rant and rave to high heaven about whatever pisses you off. Make Saqr and Volkerball look calm by comparison. Go nuts. Just make sure it's about something more real, something more nuanced, something more material than who says they're a socialist and who doesn't.
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Jul 12, 2017 12:16
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I always assumed looking at his name, avatar, and posting style, that he was a Wehrboo that wanted to take the piss out of lefties by basically same thing the same thing for months on end about the Kurds. I guess it takes some dedication and/or extreme anger. As for the YPG itself, they are probably still the less objectionable faction but have their own ethnic and authoritarian hangups. (Btw, we will see how the regime and the YPG work out. Assad still has a problem with Turkey, and the YPG provides a very useful buffer zone between regime-held territory and rebel units backed by the Turks.) Ardennes fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 12:32
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Duckbag posted:... ideology is a form of false consciousness and blinds the masses to the truth of class struggle...  vvv Fair enough. That statement just made me giggle. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 12:47
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I thought maybe I should put it in a language he'd understand. Or expose him as a fraud. Either way. The tl;dr version is "real socialists do more than just post about how great socialism is."
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Jul 12, 2017 12:54
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I like the part where you were against vanguardism, but still think socialists who don't understand the jargon of Marx's critique are frauds.
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Jul 12, 2017 12:59
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Kekekela posted:Good lord, how do you even start to fix something like that?
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Jul 12, 2017 13:05
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If anyone is ever in Toronto, the Aga Khan museum has been hosting a number of exhibits on Syria. The latest one "Syrian Symphony: New Compositions in Sight and Sound" includes drone footage of Palmyra days after being liberated. It's both amazing and terribly sad. The museum itself is definitely worth a visit as well.
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Jul 12, 2017 13:12
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I like the part where you were against vanguardism, but still think socialists who don't understand the jargon of Marx's critique are frauds. Lmao Are you saying you think Panzeh is really a socialist? Duckbox fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 13:35
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Duckbag posted:Lmao No idea. Probably. Just bad at posting. e:Wasn't really about Panzeh though, more just how we still talk as if we're literally in the 19th century, and maybe it's not that important to know what dialectic materialism is if you're not a Marxist theorist and just a socialist. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 13:45
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