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CAT rear end now!!! posted:And a second DWIFH album is apparently in very good shape, at least judging by the guy's Twitter updates. Very excited to hear what he has in store, and how his sound has evolved!
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May 31, 2012 00:56
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Danger - Octopus! posted:Holy crap, Volk Und Armee was seven years ago! I feel even older now! Tell me about it man. You remember when that first came out and you were like "  THIS IS THE BEST ALBUM EVER!" Like it was yesterday, like it was yesterday.
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May 31, 2012 01:32
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Furret Basket posted:Anyone know when Feindflug are going to come back? They're one of my all time favourite artists but they haven't released anything really new since 2005. Makes me really sad. Their remix of Jesus Antichristus was really really good.
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May 31, 2012 03:16
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XP8 confirmed as the replacement for KMFDM at Infest.
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Jun 1, 2012 21:52
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Not even close to being a good enough replacement IMO, especially considering some of the namedrops they were doing for potentials.
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Jun 2, 2012 08:37
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Furret Basket posted:Not even close to being a good enough replacement IMO, especially considering some of the namedrops they were doing for potentials. Yeah. On the other hand, I'm really happy with some of the other bands so don't really mind. It's probably a fair amount of money saved too - can't imagine KMFDM come cheap!
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Jun 2, 2012 17:12
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Danger - Octopus! posted:Yeah. On the other hand, I'm really happy with some of the other bands so don't really mind. It's probably a fair amount of money saved too - can't imagine KMFDM come cheap! I sell drugs to the kids 'Coz that's what pays I make a couple of hundreds In just one day
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Jun 2, 2012 19:10
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Continuing the recommendations for heavier type industrial, I have a few suggestions. Error: They only made one EP, but it's still one of my favourites. I wish they would have done more music, but it was basically just a one-off side project for all the members. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXTTmXB4ZMo Hanzel und Gretyl: The more recent you get, the heavier and less industrial it gets. Their early stuff was all pretty good, with their later stuff being more metal. I think one of their albums was banned in Germany. You'll see why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hjVzOoGR_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI-UjrkFshQ From one of their earlier albums: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC64MKsfoGE Pinionist: He has been making music for a long time, but hasn't released anything commercially. He's still one of my favourite musicians, and I think he's quite talented. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GURoCubXaLc Turmion Kaitilot: Very heavy. I love their music. There is nothing else like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjmZBGcEWKs Koth fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 05:57
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Let's see, things you can add: Acumen Nation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EZfIuE0KgA Be My Enemy reminds me of Xtort-era KMFDM with that singer from (current) Pitchshifter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0edhuxmMwLw Pitchshifter themselves are an odd case. They originally sounded a lot like Godflesh, then with www.pitchshifter.com they changed vocal styles and turned into some drum-and-bass rock thing that sounds like it belongs on a Tony Hawk soundtrack. I dunno, here's their early stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiTPasDsI9M If you want something that's like NIN then Gravity Kills cribs them really loving hard.
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Jun 4, 2012 15:30
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For those following the literal hellstorm of controversy of rivethead dudes arguing about if sexism is bad or not, ID:UD interviewed a few women to ask them how they feel about the whole thing.
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Jun 6, 2012 15:26
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For those interested, Tom Shear has uploaded the new Assemblage 23 album Bruise to Youtube for your listening pleasure: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUntR8ataBw2qXtvhAtk5VA?feature=mhee
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Jun 6, 2012 16:49
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somethingwicked posted:For those interested, Tom Shear has uploaded the new Assemblage 23 album Bruise to Youtube for your listening pleasure: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUntR8ataBw2qXtvhAtk5VA?feature=mhee That was nice of him. Doesn't sound bad so far, definitely a step up from Compass which I found utterly mind numbingly bad.
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Jun 6, 2012 19:10
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OneEightHundred posted:Be My Enemy reminds me of Xtort-era KMFDM with that singer from (current) Pitchshifter. This is the band with that guy from Cubanate, so I guess you could try Cubanate too!
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Jun 6, 2012 19:34
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Twiin posted:For those following the literal hellstorm of controversy of rivethead dudes arguing about if sexism is bad or not, ID:UD interviewed a few women to ask them how they feel about the whole thing. DJ Pathogen's a good get- I used to like reading his blog.
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Jun 7, 2012 11:33
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Twiin posted:For those following the literal hellstorm of controversy of rivethead dudes arguing about if sexism is bad or not, ID:UD interviewed a few women to ask them how they feel about the whole thing. Thanks for the link. As someone who doesn't know anything about the industrial scene, what is the general makeup of the scene? Demographically speaking. Have there just not been any dissenting opinions to this stuff because there is no diversity? After thinking about this since you posted your video I really started to wonder why it has taken so long to have this conversation. I've never really listened to the bands used as an example, so after having a look around in the weeks since your video I'm amazed this hasn't really come up yet.
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Jun 7, 2012 15:26
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It's really weird and depends. I'm really confused, more than anything. I can also only really speak for my local scene, which is Austin. And here I've seen audiences at shows that are almost entirely male. Other times men are a minority and just look like hipsters who wandered in, while the women are dressed up. The one gothic clothing shop in town is mainly for women, and is feminist-owned. The scene is largely, overwhelmingly white. I don't think most of these industrial festivals like Kinetik have many non-white faces. I even encountered a white nationalist here in Austin once. (A woman, in fact.) But this also depends. There is a sizable Latino population in Texas that is mostly of Mexican descent, and industrial music may be even more popular among that demographic than for whites, maybe owing to class divisions here. The industrial scene looks to me like it appeals to largely working class and lower middle class people, who are more likely to be Latino. (I'm white, by the way.) The largest industrial scene outside of Texas but adjacent to it is not in Louisiana, New Mexico or Oklahoma but in Mexico. And some of the main acts for a cancelled industrial festival earlier this year in Austin were to come from Mexico. (C-LEKKTOR, Amduscia.) And Mexico does have a place for more "dark" stuff in popular media. So there may be cultural reasons for its relative popularity there, but I'm wary of assigning too much because that can sometimes bleed over into sweeping and racist explanations like "Mexicans like this or that." Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 7, 2012 |
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Jun 7, 2012 16:22
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I've toured US/Canada extensively, and the audiences at most shows are overwhelmingly white and mostly male. Some cities (Montreal, Detroit) have a better female-to-male ratio than others, but it's pretty brutal overall. You don't see many people of color in the audience or on stage. Mexico is a totally different deal, of course. Edit: Most shows of the techno/electro-industrial / powernoise / etc variety. Futurepop crowds might have a totally different gender makeup. Twiin fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jun 7, 2012 |
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Jun 7, 2012 16:28
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Anyone else check out the Mind.In.A.Box side-project album? THYX - The Way Home I just got it yesterday. It sort of reminds me of "Dreamweb," or at least it sounds less like "Revelations."
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Jun 9, 2012 22:00
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Spookyelectric posted:Anyone else check out the Mind.In.A.Box side-project album? This sounds pretty good - might have to pick it up since I'm planning a spree of buying stuff next month
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Jun 9, 2012 22:09
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Heavier industrial: Since Turmion Katilot was already mentioned, I'll go with Blacklodge. They are defined as "Industrial Black Metal" and, honestly, it's not bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T3Tg2pvuPA
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Jun 10, 2012 00:27
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Twiin posted:For those following the literal hellstorm of controversy of rivethead dudes arguing about if sexism is bad or not, ID:UD interviewed a few women to ask them how they feel about the whole thing.
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Jun 10, 2012 03:26
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OneEightHundred posted:I dunno what to make of this. Ad-ver-sary is probably right in general, but a bunch of the stuff they complained about was bullshit taken out of context. i.e. Calling the Throat Full of Glass video a sexism promo ignores that the sexist character is an unstable power-drunk mess that gets himself killed in a pointless gunfight. (Just as a heads up, I'm Ad·ver·sary.) The fact that Andy's character gets killed doesn't change anything about the effect this kind of media has on the normalization of violence against women in industrial music.
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Jun 10, 2012 16:30
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Twiin posted:(Just as a heads up, I'm Ad·ver·sary.) Although you have the right to do what you did, there are a couple of things you should keep in mind: a. Unless I'm mistaken, you were opening up for those bands; it seems out of place to do a presentation against them. The fact that you wouldn't have received the same level of exposure if it wasn't because you were opening for them (or if you hadn't given some media a heads-up) makes it all seem like a publicity stunt. b. Your presentation seemed hyperbolic and, at times, a bit ridiculous. Just like you have the right to express your message, so do these bands have the right to express their "art", music or however you want to call it, in the best way they see fit. You make a claim that this is a "normalization" of violence against women in the industrial music scene, but fail to provide any evidence that shows a direct link between these portrayals and actual negative effects on the female crowd. If you truly think that a video like that, or lyrics as revolting as those, are anything besides tasteless, that it's somehow going to convince people that it's OK to treat women as inferior, then you are no different from those who blamed Rammstein and Marilyn Manson for Columbine. Regarding the Confederate Flag t-shirt, it seems absolutely ridiculous to call them racists (or apologists) just because of that. The overly dramatic list of "entities that have used the confederate flag", ending with the KKK is silly and unfair (and by the time we get to the MLK quote, laughable). The Confederate flag is also used, for better or for worse, as a "Southerner" symbol, such as it happened with the Dukes of Hazzard and Lynyrd Skynyrd. To pretend that its use is, per se, an apology for racism is an unfair statement. Silly? Perhaps. Racist? Not necessarily, and there's nothing to assume that Combichrist's use of the flag had a racist meaning. Finally, the quotation from the founder of Industry Records is pointless. His ideas are irrelevant regarding what is done with this musical style; he may like or hate some acts, but that doesn't mean that he gets to decide what is "true" industrial and what isn't. Once your music and your style are out there, they belong to everyone, and everyone can make their own interpretations, versions and variations of it (copyright issues aside). Full disclosure: I'm not even into Combichrist, nor am I'm too familiar with the other band you targeted. EDIT: I'm sure that having the guy in the video killed, as opposed to have him escape and live happily ever after, is a good thing. Redrum and Coke fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 17:31
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Twiin posted:The fact that Andy's character gets killed doesn't change anything about the effect this kind of media has on the normalization of violence against women in industrial music. I can't say Nachtmahr isn't sexist since half of his schtick is having women as subordinates in a cheesy "hire the cute one as my secretary" kind of way, but the Can You Feel the Beat cover is a reference to the Semper Fidelis cover, where the women are portrayed in a strong, aggressive light. The racist undertones thing I can't agree with at all. Rainer's kept it out of his act even with the constant romanticization of fascism, Combichrist doesn't really get anywhere near the topic. The whole thing seems like it misses the forest for the trees.
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Jun 10, 2012 19:25
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Non Serviam posted:a. Unless I'm mistaken, you were opening up for those bands; it seems out of place to do a presentation against them. The fact that you wouldn't have received the same level of exposure if it wasn't because you were opening for them (or if you hadn't given some media a heads-up) makes it all seem like a publicity stunt. The only reason I did it at all is because I was opening up for those bands. It is precisely because I had the opportunity to speak to people who were there to see those bands that I did the presentation. Non Serviam posted:b. Your presentation seemed hyperbolic and, at times, a bit ridiculous. Never said they didn't. Non Serviam posted:You make a claim that this is a "normalization" of violence against women in the industrial music scene, but fail to provide any evidence that shows a direct link between these portrayals and actual negative effects on the female crowd. If you truly think that a video like that, or lyrics as revolting as those, are anything besides tasteless, that it's somehow going to convince people that it's OK to treat women as inferior, then you are no different from those who blamed Rammstein and Marilyn Manson for Columbine. This would be a good argument if I was blaming Combichrist for women getting beaten up. But I'm not, so it's not. If you want evidence of the negative effects of the video on the female crowd, I can forward you any number of a hundred emails I've received from women in industrial music who talk about how lovely that video made them feel to watch. Non Serviam posted:Regarding the Confederate Flag t-shirt, it seems absolutely ridiculous to call them racists (or apologists) just because of that. The overly dramatic list of "entities that have used the confederate flag", ending with the KKK is silly and unfair (and by the time we get to the MLK quote, laughable). The Confederate flag is also used, for better or for worse, as a "Southerner" symbol, such as it happened with the Dukes of Hazzard and Lynyrd Skynyrd. To pretend that its use is, per se, an apology for racism is an unfair statement. Silly? Perhaps. Racist? Not necessarily, and there's nothing to assume that Combichrist's use of the flag had a racist meaning. I didn't call them racists, I didn't call them apologists. Maybe you might want to watch the video again. Non Serviam posted:Finally, the quotation from the founder of Industry Records is pointless. His ideas are irrelevant regarding what is done with this musical style; he may like or hate some acts, but that doesn't mean that he gets to decide what is "true" industrial and what isn't. Once your music and your style are out there, they belong to everyone, and everyone can make their own interpretations, versions and variations of it (copyright issues aside). The quote was to refute the oft-heard argument that industrial music is supposed to be shocking. Obviously, if you don't think industrial music is 'supposed' to be anything, then there's no argument for the quote to refute. OneEightHundred posted:The racist undertones thing I can't agree with at all. Rainer's kept it out of his act even with the constant romanticization of fascism, Combichrist doesn't really get anywhere near the topic. I never accused Nachtmahr of having racist undertones to their music. He's the one who started arguing against that before anyone accused him of it. Twiin fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 22:07
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Twiin posted:.... This would be a good argument if I was blaming Combichrist for women getting beaten up. But I'm not, so it's not. If you want evidence of the negative effects of the video on the female crowd, I can forward you any number of a hundred emails I've received from women in industrial music who talk about how lovely that video made them feel to watch. 1. So you made this because you got a bunch of e-mails about women who felt bad over that video? That's the huge negative effect on the female population and female rights? 2. Yes, you did. In only a few seconds you put them at the same level as the KKK and the segregationist. If you can't see this, then you're either naive or just lying. Same thing with the quote from MLK, arguing to break from prejudice. I think you need to watch your own video again.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:23
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Non Serviam posted:Just like you have the right to express your message, so do these bands have the right to express their "art", music or however you want to call it, in the best way they see fit. Nobody's saying they don't have the right to say what they want to say, just that they don't have the right to be free of criticism or questioning for it. A band is entitled to record whatever they want, but they're not inherently entitled to a record deal or good sales, either. As for the rest, there's more to sexism and racism that just saying "gently caress bitches and kill the darkies." Yeah, some bits of the video were a bit silly, but the overall message was sound and the bands are definitely guilty of at least some of it.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:28
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it's real hard to see sexism when you're male.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:54
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Non Serviam posted:1. So you made this because you got a bunch of e-mails about women who felt bad over that video? That's the huge negative effect on the female population and female rights? 1: After I made this, hundreds of women thanked me for making the video, and dozens of women told me that the Combichrist video was either in part or in whole responsible for them leaving the industrial scene. 2: If by 'putting them at the same level' you mean 'pointing out who else is using that flag that Combichrist was so proudly displaying', then sure. That was in fact the entire point of that segment -- saying "this imagery is used by lovely people for lovely purposes, and we shouldn't be accepting of it being used in our community." spider_ross.avi posted:it's real hard to see sexism when you're male. Like I said, it's all well and good for men to be arguing about if sexism is a problem in the industrial scene or not, but there are a lot of women interviewed in the article, and a lot of women who've gotten in touch with me since the video, and given how much support I've had from them, I have absolutely no regrets about the video. If you think it's a stunt or bullshit or whatever, that's fine. If what this means is that hundreds of people feel like someone's finally talking about something that has been upsetting them for years, and a few dudes think I'm a jerk, that's a trade I'll take all day long. Twiin fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 23:04
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It's not shocking at all that mostly males are up in arms about this whole thing, is what I was getting at. FWIW i think what you did was cool, Twiin. e: on the topic of good heavy industrial, I can't believe I didn't remember Firewerk earlier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laCsYSVaMXo spider_ross.avi fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 23:33
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Twiin posted:1: After I made this, hundreds of women thanked me for making the video, and dozens of women told me that the Combichrist video was either in part or in whole responsible for them leaving the industrial scene. quote:2: If by 'putting them at the same level' you mean 'pointing out who else is using that flag that Combichrist was so proudly displaying', then sure. That was in fact the entire point of that segment -- saying "this imagery is used by lovely people for lovely purposes, and we shouldn't be accepting of it being used in our community." You're, really, acting like the idiots who blame video games for violence. quote:If you think it's a stunt or bullshit or whatever, that's fine. If what this means is that hundreds of people feel like someone's finally talking about something that has been upsetting them for years, and a few dudes think I'm a jerk, that's a trade I'll take all day long. While your anecdotal evidence of "some girls got in touch with me" might be good; the majority of female fans clearly didn't give a gently caress, and still go to Combichrist shows. I find misogyny revolting, but you chose the wrong target.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:24
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Non Serviam posted:Do you really think that a picture of a guy covered in blood, surrounded by a bunch of preteen Japanese girls with chainsaws is to be taken as a political statement? Especially coming from the "philosophers" behind "gently caress that poo poo" and "This poo poo Will gently caress You Up". I don't think it's a political statement. I think it's thoughtless character building from someone who hasn't considered the racial implications of it -- and you know what? Andy agrees with me. I can't speak to the 'majority of female fans', I can only speak to the audience at Kinetik I presented to and the people I've spoken to since, and the majority of those people have given their enthusiastic support. I'm not styling myself as a pioneer, friend. I'm just a guy who's using the resources I have to speak out about the problems I see in my community. I'm doing the best I can, which is all I can do. If you find misogyny revolting and my tactics flawed, that's fine. I look forward to seeing what you do about it.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:46
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Non Serviam posted:1. So you made this because you got a bunch of e-mails about women who felt bad over that video? That's the huge negative effect on the female population and female rights? That's enough to be worth raising a concern over because the normalization of sexism is bad. If you're making a specific minority group in the audience feel bad you need to reconsider the message you're sending.
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Jun 11, 2012 01:15
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Non Serviam posted:Yes, misogyny and racism have never been discussed before, and it's good to count with a pioneer such as you among us.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:49
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How do you pronounce that, anyway? La-PLEG-you-uh? La-pleh-GYOO-uh?
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Jun 11, 2012 05:08
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I think a lot of what the video portrayed needed to be said and I agree that as an audience we should be a little more discerning with what we support. The depictions of women being used is just a repeat of the late 80s hair metal mixed in with the fetish scene that's walked in tandem with industrial over the years. Get some women in leather and latex have them gyrate around and then collar them to the artist. Cut and Print. As for the fascist imagery, it was a device used by early artists to convey a point of freedoms being taken away. It was a slap to the face for any media coverage to try and get a message out by actually shocking the audience. Now it's merely fashion and trying to fit an image, it's literally becoming the look/uniform of a counter culture scene. There seems to be a problem with more and more artists out there trying to produce the next big club track and instead of conveying a thoughtful message or even a slap to the face to try and wake some people up. From my perspective the genre has done a 180 and instead of throwing institutional standard out the window it's completely homogenized itself to try and cash in on a genre that historically doesn't make money.
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Jun 11, 2012 18:09
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Konstruct posted:From my perspective the genre has done a 180 and instead of throwing institutional standard out the window it's completely homogenized itself to try and cash in on a genre that historically doesn't make money. ^ THIS. I gotta support Twiin it's sad when "industrial" artists are the ones being accused of lacking artistic merit and supporting oppressive views. These bands have the chance to actually make people think, to shift cultures with groundbreaking art, to showcase different conceptual ideas through their shows to the thousands in attendance. That's such a gift, to be given that chance given the history of the genre. Instead they act like college bros. Dress (un-ironically) in uniform and play out violent misogynist fantasies, claiming anything that lacks any real merit as "fetishist". Please. Not to say there isn't a place for dumb, brainless conformist music. It's just that industrial used to be focused on attacking social and political ideas through art and performance. Now it's about getting yer dingus wet
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Jun 11, 2012 22:10
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Twiin posted:If you think it's a stunt or bullshit or whatever, that's fine. If what this means is that hundreds of people feel like someone's finally talking about something that has been upsetting them for years, and a few dudes think I'm a jerk, that's a trade I'll take all day long. This is exactly how I feel about it, although some of the stuff in the video was obviously directly inflamatory (and for what it's worth I think it's really dumb that you keep pulling the "but look I didn't really call them a racst/sexist" card, you knew exactly what you were doing) In the end I don't care what your intentions were because the end result is people finally talking about it. And yes, I'm someone for whom this has been upsetting for years too.
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Jun 11, 2012 23:21
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Furret Basket posted:This is exactly how I feel about it, although some of the stuff in the video was obviously directly inflamatory (and for what it's worth I think it's really dumb that you keep pulling the "but look I didn't really call them a racst/sexist" card, you knew exactly what you we're doing) Obviously it was inflammatory, it's agitprop. But there's a very important distinction between calling someone a racist and saying that they're using racist imagery. I don't think Andy's a racist. I don't care if he's a racist. I care that he wears a confederate flag on the cover of magazines. The rebuttal to "Andy's a racist" is "Andy's not a racist", and that isn't a debate that interests me. The rebuttal to "Andy is using a flag that has been flown by the confederacy, the dixiecrats and the kkk" is the one I was interested in starting a conversation about.
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Jun 12, 2012 00:32
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There's no merit in shock value for shock alone; shock value's got to have a point or else it's just juvenile poo poo. Old-school industrial was often shocking, but there was a message and a point behind it, such as Skinny Puppy trying to draw attention to animal rights issues. Wallowing in poo poo for the sake of wallowing in poo poo is junior high school.
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Jun 12, 2012 00:34
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