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Unskilled Labour
Jul 23, 2009


SadWhaleFamily posted:

All I can hope for you is that you never become complacent with lowering the hammer, thinking "Aw yeah I can do it, just like the other 900 times before" and then it slips because you somehow didn't have as much grip on it as you had before and didn't let go of the trigger in time or whatever.

The other option is to stop lowering the hammer if you're not gonna carry it, which you're never gonna do in CA anyway, and if you're lowering the hammer to decock it after a range day, why not just dry-fire it while pointing it definitively downrange into the berm?

I know that in IPSC production class, lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber is very common, as the first shot is usually double action with a chambered round.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Pham Nuwen posted:

Frankly I cannot imagine how you could ND lowering the hammer on a CZ-82.

You should ditch that attitude rikki-tik if you are actually going to be lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber. Otherwise you WILL have an ND.

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Kommienzuspadt posted:

You should ditch that attitude rikki-tik if you are actually going to be lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber. Otherwise you WILL have an ND.

I'll be the dumb person to say that I don't even get why people lower hammers on empty chambers on 82s. Cocked and Locked or bust.

SadWhaleFamily
May 1, 2007



Unskilled Labour posted:

I know that in IPSC production class, lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber is very common, as the first shot is usually double action with a chambered round.

I would watch someone run a course of IPSC fire with a vz.82. And laugh a bit.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Unskilled Labour posted:

I know that in IPSC production class, lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber is very common, as the first shot is usually double action with a chambered round.


I know IPSC does this and my response is basically twofold -

1. Before a match, you are lowering the chamber in a safe direction on a live fire range such that IF the gun goes off it will go downrange, where tens of thousands of bullets have gone before it, into a berm that is 99.99999999999% likely to take the bullet with no loss of life, limb, or property. at HOME when you are in your stanky gooncave, no matter how safe you safe direction is it will still never be as safe as the backstop of a firing range, Period. Even if you are in your basement, you're still going to put a hole in the wall, potentially have a ricochet, and definitely damage the hell out of your ears and your relationship with whomever else you are sharing that house or apartment with.

And that's best case scenario. Worst case scenario you are Pham Nuwem and you've maybe had a beer or two and you frankly cannot imagine how you'd have an ND lowering a hammer on a hot chamber and so you go to prove it to yourself again and BAM hole through your lovely apartment wall and you just popped your neighbor's cat. Or your neighbor.

2. It's still loving stupid even if you do it in IPSC.

Vorlonesque
Sep 17, 2005

Killing planets since 1876

Kommienzuspadt posted:

You should ditch that attitude rikki-tik if you are actually going to be lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber. Otherwise you WILL have an ND.

This is why when I do that (generally at a range pointed at a backstop) I put my finger between the hammer and the firing pin until I've let off the trigger and then I thumb it the rest of the way down. Even then its not something that I feel comfortable doing, and I'm only doing it at a range (pointed at a backstop) or at least have it pointed at the huge muddy vertical hillside at my home that makes a good backstop that's hundreds of feet thick if not more.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276700656



Dear G43: please get a demo letter and buy this, so I can shoot it.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


IuniusBrutus posted:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276700656



Dear G43: please get a demo letter and buy this, so I can shoot it.

Oh poo poo. I wonder what the reserve is? Shouldn't it be many thousands more than 500?

What's the significance of that letter you need and how does it differ from other nfa whatevers?

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

I would love to have a FA SP-01 with how well it handles recoil.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




Kommienzuspadt posted:

I know IPSC does this and my response is basically twofold -

1. Before a match, you are lowering the chamber in a safe direction on a live fire range such that IF the gun goes off it will go downrange, where tens of thousands of bullets have gone before it, into a berm that is 99.99999999999% likely to take the bullet with no loss of life, limb, or property. at HOME when you are in your stanky gooncave, no matter how safe you safe direction is it will still never be as safe as the backstop of a firing range, Period. Even if you are in your basement, you're still going to put a hole in the wall, potentially have a ricochet, and definitely damage the hell out of your ears and your relationship with whomever else you are sharing that house or apartment with.

Lower the hammer while pointing the gun into a big bucket of sand while wearing eye/ear protection if you want to be super safe about it.

quote:

2. It's still loving stupid even if you do it in IPSC.

The gun is pointed in a safe direction and everyone around you is wearing ear and eye protection. There's a chance you would get DQ'd I guess but it's not the end of the world.

It's really great that everyone is so gung-ho about gun safety but being all about it is irritating. Obviously lowering the hammer on a 1911 is stupid and there's no reason to do it but it's not like it's a hard thing to do safely if you have a reason to.

poopgiggle fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 11, 2012

Alaan
May 24, 2005



Bummey posted:

Oh poo poo. I wonder what the reserve is? Shouldn't it be many thousands more than 500?

What's the significance of that letter you need and how does it differ from other nfa whatevers?

Pretty much any machine guns past, uh, 86 or something like that can only be possessed by police/government, or FFLs for manufacturing them, or FFLs that can handle NFA poo poo that has a letter from the local PD or whatever saying they are interested in that gun. If they get rid of their FFL they need to sell the gun off. They are the most difficult to own and the pool that can have them is so small prices are pretty much reasonable!

Alaan fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Mar 11, 2012

Vorlonesque
Sep 17, 2005

Killing planets since 1876

poopgiggle posted:

Lower the hammer while pointing the gun into a big bucket of sand while wearing eye/ear protection if you want to be super safe about it.


The gun is pointed in a safe direction and everyone around you is wearing ear and eye protection. There's a chance you would get DQ'd I guess but it's not the end of the world.

It's really great that everyone is so gung-ho about gun safety but being all about it is irritating. Obviously lowering the hammer on a 1911 is stupid and there's no reason to do it but it's not like it's a hard thing to do safely if you have a reason to.

And shooting the first round out of a vz.82 double action is awesome and should be experienced if you have one. One of the best double action pulls I've ever used...it doesn't feel like its a significant change going to single action after that first shot (its loving buttery smooth and light...just a bit longer and not by a huuuge amount).

That said, I don't know if mine is better than average on this...it was disassembled down the small parts and refinished and any burrs or imperfections were removed (the gunsmith I bought it from does that with all the 82s he sells...he then duracoats them and bakes in the finish)...but the straight from Century model I handled at another shop didn't have a bad pull at all...maybe a little less smooth than mine, but still smooth as hell.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010




Vorlonesque posted:

And shooting the first round out of a vz.82 double action is awesome and should be experienced if you have one. One of the best double action pulls I've ever used...it doesn't feel like its a significant change going to single action after that first shot (its loving buttery smooth and light...just a bit longer and not by a huuuge amount).

That's the reason I lowered the hammer on a loaded chamber a few times--I wanted to check out the double action pull. Otherwise I just throw the safety on if I'm, say, handing it off to someone else. I lower the hammer when I'm dicking around with an empty chamber at home because I'm OCD and don't like leaving it sitting around cocked.

If I ever get a carry permit (hahahahahahahahaha) and decide to carry the CZ-82... "cocked and locked" is the way I'll go, because yeah, lowering the hammer on a hot chamber in my apartment gives me the willies.

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


I actually carried a CZ-82 cocked and locked for a year and change. Worked quite well for me. If you're going to ever carry an 82, pick up a crossbreed supertuck holster. They make them for 83s but 82s fit and stay in just fine.

Quickshanks
Oct 3, 2011

So damned good.

A little while ago I was carrying my CZ-82 cocked and locked in the cheap surplus holster it came with and after a while of walking around with it drew it and realized it had come un-"locked" somehow in the holster. I don't know if it was the holster or what happened but I haven't carried it since.

incredibull
Sep 7, 2008

GENERIC

I ordered two CZ-82s today - one for my wife & I. Hand-pick from AIM, includes extra mag & holster for each. She's super excited to get her first pistol. Thanks for input on my earlier post.

incredibull fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 13, 2012

Nubcakes
Jan 11, 2009

If it isn't broken...
Take it apart and improve it!


Quickshanks posted:

Ooh ooh. Where is it? Do they ship?

Update on this shop; They do ship. Just call the number I posted earlier if you are interested. It was in store today so they still have it for sale.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Does anyone make a higher capacity mag for the CZ 527 in 7.62x39? I am so close to picking one up and the only thing I would really like is a higher capacity. I guess the ruger scout rifle would fit what I am looking for also, but I really want the CZ craftsmanship and non extended eye relief scope.

BeanTaco
Apr 14, 2011



ZebraBlade posted:

Does anyone make a higher capacity mag for the CZ 527 in 7.62x39? I am so close to picking one up and the only thing I would really like is a higher capacity. I guess the ruger scout rifle would fit what I am looking for also, but I really want the CZ craftsmanship and non extended eye relief scope.

Not that I'm aware of.
Get it anyway though.

Quickshanks
Oct 3, 2011

So damned good.

Nubcakes posted:

Update on this shop; They do ship. Just call the number I posted earlier if you are interested. It was in store today so they still have it for sale.
Really really strongly considering doing just that and probably going for it. You think they'd provide pictures? Any idea what specific model it is, as in slide length and caliber? Don't know how close you looked at it, but would you say its in pretty good shape?

Just seems like he'd take me more seriously if I didn't have to ask all these things and ponder on it while holding him on the phone.

incredibull
Sep 7, 2008

GENERIC

ZebraBlade posted:

Does anyone make a higher capacity mag for the CZ 527 in 7.62x39? I am so close to picking one up and the only thing I would really like is a higher capacity. I guess the ruger scout rifle would fit what I am looking for also, but I really want the CZ craftsmanship and non extended eye relief scope.

If you are crafty I imagine you could make something work with single-stack 7.62x39 10-rd AK magazines. The feed lip area will probably have to be modified, latching tabs removed, and CZ-compatible latching tabs/nubs added somehow. The CZ mag doesn't look too complicated. If you have some time and a welder, I bet you could mod up a few single-stacks easily.

Nubcakes
Jan 11, 2009

If it isn't broken...
Take it apart and improve it!


Quickshanks posted:

Really really strongly considering doing just that and probably going for it. You think they'd provide pictures? Any idea what specific model it is, as in slide length and caliber? Don't know how close you looked at it, but would you say its in pretty good shape?

Just seems like he'd take me more seriously if I didn't have to ask all these things and ponder on it while holding him on the phone.

In a fancy looking font it says "Sphinx". Then in smaller normal looking font it says "AT 2000". I forgot exactly how the marking looked but I do recall it saying AT 2000 on it.

Its two tone and looks like this:


I am 90% sure it was in 9X19. I am 100% sure it was marked as having a capacity of 15+1 rounds. I do not know the slide length and I doubt Walt would provide pictures--- unless you have a fax in which case he "MIGHT"

It looked like it was brand new but it was marked as used. Walt let me dry fire it once and it had a trigger that felt very similiar to my CZ75 SP01 though it seemed a little smoother and lighter. I did not notice any imperfections but I also didn't look it over extremely carefully.

I am in no way an expert in any firearms or shooting. However I will say the sphinx felt perfect in my hand. The only reason I didn't buy it was because spare parts are rare as hen's teeth.

Quickshanks
Oct 3, 2011

So damned good.

I'll give Walt a call tomorrow.

Look what you've done.

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


incredibull posted:

If you are crafty I imagine you could make something work with single-stack 7.62x39 10-rd AK magazines. The feed lip area will probably have to be modified, latching tabs removed, and CZ-compatible latching tabs/nubs added somehow. The CZ mag doesn't look too complicated. If you have some time and a welder, I bet you could mod up a few single-stacks easily.
I'd like to believe this could be done but given how overbuilt AK mags are and how compact the CZ mag is, it wouldn't be feasible without some serious modification to the bottom metal.

Although you could get a spare for $65 so it *may* be worth attempting for someone with equal levels of skill and recklessness (i.e. Gwamp). A more elegant solution would be to cut the top from one mag and the bottom from another and weld them together.

In the end, however, you'd be putting forth a lot of effort (and cash) for the tenuous benefit of five additional rounds. Buying a few spare CZ mags would be far less hassle in the long run.

Uncle Caveman fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Mar 14, 2012

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

I guess I need to win the lotto and have them custom make me one with a mannlicher stock that takes doublestack AK mags.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



ZebraBlade posted:

I guess I need to win the lotto and have them custom make me one with a mannlicher stock that takes doublestack AK mags.

You might as well commission Holland and Holland to make one.

incredibull
Sep 7, 2008

GENERIC

Uncle Caveman posted:

I'd like to believe this could be done but given how overbuilt AK mags are and how compact the CZ mag is, it wouldn't be feasible without some serious modification to the bottom metal.

Although you could get a spare for $65 so it *may* be worth attempting for someone with equal levels of skill and recklessness (i.e. Gwamp). A more elegant solution would be to cut the top from one mag and the bottom from another and weld them together.

In the end, however, you'd be putting forth a lot of effort (and cash) for the tenuous benefit of five additional rounds. Buying a few spare CZ mags would be far less hassle in the long run.

You're probably right. I've never seen a CZ 527 mag other than GIS, so if you say it's compact I'll take your word for it. It would require a poo poo ton of grinding around the feed lips/walls no matter what, since as you mentioned this area of the AK mag is seriously overbuilt.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



It looks like CZ did a really lame ripoff of Scope's "party CZ" design.



Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Craptacular posted:




I must do this to my shadow

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


incredibull posted:

You're probably right. I've never seen a CZ 527 mag other than GIS, so if you say it's compact I'll take your word for it. It would require a poo poo ton of grinding around the feed lips/walls no matter what, since as you mentioned this area of the AK mag is seriously overbuilt.
Here's some comparison pics of the 527 and AK mags (doublestack, I don't have any singles on hand because eeew singlestack AK mags ):



AK mag feedlip area measures 2.46"x1.02", CZ measures 2.39"x0.51".

AK mag next to CZ magwell:



A clever fabricator might possibly make something work, but it would either need some creative thinking on how to get an AK mag catch in such a small space, or custom-cut each AK mag to accept a new catch altogether.

powers
Jul 26, 2005

The Maller is an Amarrian frigate, used by hotdroppers.

~SMcD

I can't wait until my taxes are done so I can come back to this thread. Too much temptation.

GEEKABALL
May 30, 2011

Throw out your hands!!
Stick out your tush!!
Hands on your hips
Give them a push!!


Fun Shoe

This has probably already been covered in this thread, but maybe someone has time to answer this: What are the advantages/disadvantages of the pre-B CZ75 over the CZ75B? Does the addition of the firing pin block affect trigger pull? How much does it affect the safe operation of the gun? Are the only other differences cosmetic?

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


GEEKABALL posted:

This has probably already been covered in this thread, but maybe someone has time to answer this: What are the advantages/disadvantages of the pre-B CZ75 over the CZ75B? Does the addition of the firing pin block affect trigger pull? How much does it affect the safe operation of the gun? Are the only other differences cosmetic?

I'm pretty sure they're different enough that Magazines and (some?) parts are not interchangeable. Get a B, they're cheap enough that you won't be spending much more than a pre-B and you'll have more support for it.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



GEEKABALL posted:

This has probably already been covered in this thread, but maybe someone has time to answer this: What are the advantages/disadvantages of the pre-B CZ75 over the CZ75B? Does the addition of the firing pin block affect trigger pull? How much does it affect the safe operation of the gun? Are the only other differences cosmetic?

The firing pin block will definitely screw up your trigger pull, but you probably won't be able to notice if you're comparing an unmodified B-series gun to a pre-B. Once you start doing trigger pull work, the limitations of the FPB become apparent. It CAN be removed safely though, but note this will make the pistol ineligible for most competition use. The FPB mostly serves to prevent the gun from firing if dropped, so don't drop your gun, dumbass, and you won't have issues.

Pre-Bs are all over the board in terms of parts compatibility with B-models. Magazines sometimes fit. Sometimes. Don't count on it, unless the seller can verify, but it's a common enough occurrence that you shouldn't worry about finding one that does work. Pre-B magazines can be gotten from CZ-USA, but they are $rape compared to B-series Mec-Gar magazines. The other internals can be tricky - the sear and hammer are for sure different. Also, the finish on most of them sucks, so plan on refinishing it in something more durable. (PS - Blued)

Most of the nice ones are gone now, so the ehhhh ones are what remains. They range from $280 - $350 - Robinson Trading Post has some: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277153342 Seeing as the list price for a brand-new CZ75B is $460 from CZ-Custom, you'd be MUCH better off just buying one of those if you're looking for a shooter, and don't care much about the history of the gun. The trigger can still be cleaned up to be very, very good - if you do enough work, the only difference will be the reset. On a non-FPB CZ, the reset is stupidly short, on par with a nice 1911. On a FPB CZ, it'll be about the same as a Glock, so not too bad either.

If you have your heart set on a Pre-B, but aren't in a hurry, look for one like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277258880

Don't buy one refinished in dumb colors, but you'll notice it is a pre-B model, but has characteristics of a B-model - namely, the squared off trigger guard and ring hammer. These transitional models will work with all magazines, and have near total parts compatibility with current models, yet no FPB. I've seen some with spur hammers, but the squared off trigger guard will likely still be there.

tl;dr: Unless you are a collector, buy a CZ75B. Even then, buy a CZ75B first. You can get Pre-Bs that you can still get parts and mags for, but even then it likely won't be worth the $100 you'll save over a brand new one.

That said, Pre-Bs with round trigger guards and spur hammers are dope as gently caress.

edit: Also, sights on pre-Bs are absolute garbage. New CZs aren't much better, but they are at least usable.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Mar 16, 2012

GEEKABALL
May 30, 2011

Throw out your hands!!
Stick out your tush!!
Hands on your hips
Give them a push!!


Fun Shoe

Thanks for the responses. It is not for home defense or for gun games, so the firing pin block is no concern. It is purely for range paper holery and because it is on my "I want it" list. I have handled them at gun shows and liked them. I recently got a chance to shoot a couple (thanks again kuffs!) and this confirmed that I wanted one.

IuniusBrutus posted:

That said, Pre-Bs with round trigger guards and spur hammers are dope as gently caress.
You mean like this one? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277650745. Not a smoking deal but I am satisfied with it.

great_heron
Oct 1, 2011



GEEKABALL posted:

You mean like this one? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277650745. Not a smoking deal but I am satisfied with it.

That's nearly identical to the one I just picked up, actually, though mine has just a touch more holster wear on it. So far I love the hell out of it. The trigger's great, and it fits my hand perfectly and feels very natural. I've yet to take it out to the range, but I'm hoping to soon enough so I can see what ammo it likes best. I know that the Bs have a few advantages, but gosh darn if having an original Pre B from 1992 doesn't make me feel nostalgic and special.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



GEEKABALL posted:

Thanks for the responses. It is not for home defense or for gun games, so the firing pin block is no concern. It is purely for range paper holery and because it is on my "I want it" list. I have handled them at gun shows and liked them. I recently got a chance to shoot a couple (thanks again kuffs!) and this confirmed that I wanted one.

You mean like this one? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277650745. Not a smoking deal but I am satisfied with it.

You buy that one? I almost considered buying that myself - the finish is in really good condition for a pre-B. You'll enjoy it quite a bit...if you're aren't afraid of tinkering a little, I highly reccomend sending your hammer and sear into Cajun Gun works. They'll clean them up for you, and along with a respring, you'll have one of the best triggers you can get on a DA/SA gun for very little money.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

ZebraBlade posted:

Does anyone make a higher capacity mag for the CZ 527 in 7.62x39? I am so close to picking one up and the only thing I would really like is a higher capacity. I guess the ruger scout rifle would fit what I am looking for also, but I really want the CZ craftsmanship and non extended eye relief scope.

Sticking a 30r mag on a nice light little rifle kinda ruins the point. Same thing with sticking a huge rear end scope on there. Oh of the reasons the rife has a single stack mag instead of the more standard staggered mag is to allow a thinner receiver.

great_heron
Oct 1, 2011



IuniusBrutus posted:

You buy that one? I almost considered buying that myself - the finish is in really good condition for a pre-B. You'll enjoy it quite a bit...if you're aren't afraid of tinkering a little, I highly reccomend sending your hammer and sear into Cajun Gun works. They'll clean them up for you, and along with a respring, you'll have one of the best triggers you can get on a DA/SA gun for very little money.

Nah, I got one from Robertson Trading Post, one of the ones he listed on Guns America. I'll get some range time in and see how I like it, but so far I think the trigger's pretty nice, which I wasn't sure about since I've heard about triggers on the 75 usually being a bit gritty. I'll consider it though.

great_heron fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Mar 17, 2012

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Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


I personally like having firing pin blocks on guns and the trigger on a CZ with an FPB isn't at all bad. It's no racegun, but it could be just as easily argued that for a paper punching gun you might as well have that feature, as you're more likely to accidentally drop the gun than you are accidentally join USPSA.

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