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Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006




What's one of the iconic AD&D module series? Yeah, that's right- Against the Giants.

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Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.


I kind of want to see this adapted to pen&paper now. It will be an entire game system based on half the party dying every encounter.

Oh Snapalope
Aug 17, 2009


Guilty Crown and Shoe will strike back just you wait!

Wandering Knitter
Feb 5, 2006


Schubalts posted:

I kind of want to see this adapted to pen&paper now. It will be an entire game system based on half the party dying every encounter.

Just make it like Dark Sun and have everyone prepare 3-6 characters in advance.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


Oh Snapalope posted:

Guilty Crown and Shoe will strike back just you wait!

Guilty Crown went way downhill once the protagonist became Hitler.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


RatHat posted:

Guilty Crown went way downhill once the protagonist became Hitler.

It started at zero and went into negative numbers. It isn't as though it was ever good.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Serious Frolicking posted:

It started at zero and went into negative numbers. It isn't as though it was ever good.

Though I'm not sure that where it went after he became Hitler Jesus (not to be confused with plain old Hitler) can be traced by the path of conventional mathematics.

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

I'm going with the titans being the result of some sort of zombie disease. Perhaps the walls were originally built more as a quarantine than as a defense. I imagine this is one of the church's bug secrets. You'll notice that all human remains of people killed by titans are burned and it's pretty unlikely for someone to live through a Titan bite.

The human controlled titans may just be people that have a natural immunity and are sore about their ancestors being shunned beyond the walls.

That village obviously suddenly transformed even if the cause is unclear. It could be the hairy Titan purposely infecting them somehow.

Still not really clear how the titans in the wall tie in.

Urdnot Fire
Feb 13, 2012



Dr_Amazing posted:

it's pretty unlikely for someone to live through a Titan bite.
Except that this happened a couple chapters ago. Aside from that, very interesting theory.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


I dunno, I think it'd be pretty boring if the titans turn out to be basically zombies.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Dr_Amazing posted:

Still not really clear how the titans in the wall tie in.
Yeah, that's the sticky part. It makes it pretty clear that Titans aren't a force of nature, but a force of humanity.

Titans didn't just suddenly happen. The amount of organization and skill with regards to titans and titan transformations to make all the massive walls couldn't reasonably have been developed while humanity was being eradicated. And keep in mind the titans in the walls are more advanced than the wild ones- they're the 50 meter class titans- and not just a few of them. The people who made the walls knew their stuff very well, and had a very advanced organization (that probably lives on through the Church).

I'm pretty sure the bodies are burned for normal sanitary reasons. It's easier and cleaner than digging a bunch of mass graves.

The way Conny's village was transformed is indeed really interesting though. Once we know how that trick was pulled off, we'll know a lot more about the original nature of the titans.

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

Urdnot Fire posted:

Except that this happened a couple chapters ago. Aside from that, very interesting theory.

I'm pretty sure that's the first time we've seen it happen. It's always possible the titans were a deliberate creation to advance humanity before it all went out of control.

It's important to note that the wall titan appears to be alive and conscious (looked like it's eye moved). Presumably sunlight hitting it would cause it to freak out or something. I imagine getting that many volunteers would be pretty hard so they must have had some way of controlling titans and forcing them into the walls.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011


Schwarzwald posted:

It's all a ploy to develop people and techniques that are capable of fighting mythological monsters. Other enclaves have humans beseiged by goblins, faeries, karakasa, manicores, trolls, etc..

The ultimate goal is to train a force capable of matching humanity's actual enemy: space dragons.

Now I want a parody manga where the defense is against tengus

Club Sandwich
May 25, 2012


Dr_Amazing posted:

I'm pretty sure that's the first time we've seen it happen. It's always possible the titans were a deliberate creation to advance humanity before it all went out of control.

It's important to note that the wall titan appears to be alive and conscious (looked like it's eye moved). Presumably sunlight hitting it would cause it to freak out or something. I imagine getting that many volunteers would be pretty hard so they must have had some way of controlling titans and forcing them into the walls.

Also remember that the priest freaked out when the titan in the wall was exposed to sunlight, saying that they had to cover it up immediately. I imagine the means of controlling the titans in the wall, if there even are any, pretty much involves just keeping them catatonic. How they got that many 50m titans together is the real mystery.

miscellaneous14
Mar 27, 2010

neat


I'm gonna go with the theory that the wall-creating titans can't last forever and need to be replaced with new ones every so often, so they pick certain people that are or can be turned into the mega-titans to maintain the wall. Eren's dad was going to be one of these, but he decided to break the cycle and bust open the wall.

It's likely that people just turn into titans eventually for whatever reason, explaining why they couldn't just use the titans under their control to kill the rest. Anyone who's going to turn into one is probably sent out of the city or killed and burned by the church.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Dr_Amazing posted:

I'm pretty sure that's the first time we've seen it happen. It's always possible the titans were a deliberate creation to advance humanity before it all went out of control.

It's important to note that the wall titan appears to be alive and conscious (looked like it's eye moved). Presumably sunlight hitting it would cause it to freak out or something. I imagine getting that many volunteers would be pretty hard so they must have had some way of controlling titans and forcing them into the walls.
I'm not sure, I think if the goal was saving humanity, maybe you could get that many volunteers. Especially if volunteering got your family promised a place within the new walls or something. In fact, with the number of people in the walls, and the number of people needed to make the walls, I wouldn't be surprised if the only way to get in would be to sacrifice a family member or something. (Outside the predictably corrupt ruling classes.)

Remember how the Church worship goes? People lock arms in three concentric circles. I wouldn't be surprised if the 50m titans in the wall all have their arms locked together the same way.

miscellaneous14 posted:

I'm gonna go with the theory that the wall-creating titans can't last forever and need to be replaced with new ones every so often, so they pick certain people that are or can be turned into the mega-titans to maintain the wall. Eren's dad was going to be one of these, but he decided to break the cycle and bust open the wall.

It's likely that people just turn into titans eventually for whatever reason, explaining why they couldn't just use the titans under their control to kill the rest. Anyone who's going to turn into one is probably sent out of the city or killed and burned by the church.
Eren's dad, or rather the 50m titan (probably Eren's dad), wasn't actually the one that broke a hole in the wall down the "armored titan" was the one that burst through the gate. It's not as obvious, as the armored titan isn't nearly so distinct looking, and I forgot about it until I reread it, but it's almost the more important of the two titans that attacked at the beginning.

That also gives us two very special human controlled titans to account for, so someone else in addition to (probably) Eren's dad is a Major Enemy.

As for the other bit, I imagine if people just spontaneously turned to titans, and they threw out people who would turn somehow, we'd have heard about people being disappeared all the time or something. And plus we know it can be controlled to some degree, as Conny's village got turned intentionally.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006




There is definitely something up with the wall Titans. Subduing that many 50-meter Titans seems implausible, and the other giants just aren't a credible threat to anyone with a force of 50 meter Titans on hand. Either way, if you can make that wall, the other titans just aren't the problem you are actually addressing.

One possibility is that the normal Titans are the result of exposure to some sort of pollution created as a side-effect of the process that created the other, desirable sorts of Titans. The walls would then to serve to confine humans in a safe area. Or perhaps the hairy Titan represents a species or faction whose abilities the Titan technology is built on, and that which has humanity by the balls due to their ability to convert humans to mindless Titans en-mass.

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

Eiba posted:



Eren's dad, or rather the 50m titan (probably Eren's dad), wasn't actually the one that broke a hole in the wall down the "armored titan" was the one that burst through the gate. It's not as obvious, as the armored titan isn't nearly so distinct looking, and I forgot about it until I reread it, but it's almost the more important of the two titans that attacked at the beginning.

.

The big one kicked in the first wall inti the city. The armored Titan smashed the second wall to get into the big area behind it.

Didn't it make a second hole as well? The one they plugged with the rock.

Simstim
Mar 16, 2005

You just gave me a great idea buddy.

Dr_Amazing posted:

The big one kicked in the first wall inti the city. The armored Titan smashed the second wall to get into the big area behind it.

Didn't it make a second hole as well? The one they plugged with the rock.

The colossal titan did make the whole that was plugged by Eren, the Armored Titan never got around to smashing the second wall because wildcard Titan-Eren showed up. This was an important deduction made by the Scouting Legion when they tried to lure them out using Eren as bait.

edit: I should say the veterans of the Scouting Legion who survived the breach of the first wall, it wasn't known to anyone else except Armin who figured it out on his own. It might just be the bonds of trust formed in battle but there might be more to what happened with the Scouting Legion after the first wall was breached that hasn't been brought up yet.

Simstim fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Dec 19, 2012

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Dr_Amazing posted:

The big one kicked in the first wall inti the city. The armored Titan smashed the second wall to get into the big area behind it.
Oh, right. Just reread that part again. I was confused as I distinctly remembered that it had burst into an urban area, but I'd forgotten that there was a city on both sides of the wall.

Club Sandwich
May 25, 2012


By the way, I just read through the whole series and was wondering when the next update would be? Has it already happened for December, or is there still one this month?

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007



Club Sandwich posted:

By the way, I just read through the whole series and was wondering when the next update would be?

Monthly, around the tenth (yes, we've already had our December fix). Welcome to Shingeki no Kyojin Anonymous

McKilligan
May 13, 2007

Acey Deezy

One thing I've never really understood is the way the 3D gear works - I get that's it's pretty much a hip-mounted version of Batman's grappling gun, but how the hell do they aim where they're going beyond just changing their direction? I can see how it allows you to move really quickly from point to point in a straight line, and sharply swing around corners, etc, but that would require alot of precision aiming that doesn't seem possible with a forward-facing hip mount. Am I missing something really obvious, or is this just something I ought to attribute to the 'rule of cool'?

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

I think they have controls in their sword handles. One of the between chapter things has a bit about how they work and focuses mainly on shifting your weight around. I don't think we're supposed to be thinking too hard about it.

I think the biggest problem is how they retract the hooks back to fire them again. It's not like spiderman where they can just keep shooting out new ones.

Looking back through it, I had forgotten the bit about Titans usually stopping without sunlight. It's strange they don't take more advantage of that. Obviously you can't ride all over the place in the middle of the night, but you could clear out the cities without much trouble. Or any hanging around the wall.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


Dr_Amazing posted:

I think they have controls in their sword handles. One of the between chapter things has a bit about how they work and focuses mainly on shifting your weight around. I don't think we're supposed to be thinking too hard about it.

I think the biggest problem is how they retract the hooks back to fire them again. It's not like spiderman where they can just keep shooting out new ones.

Looking back through it, I had forgotten the bit about Titans usually stopping without sunlight. It's strange they don't take more advantage of that. Obviously you can't ride all over the place in the middle of the night, but you could clear out the cities without much trouble. Or any hanging around the wall.

Not all of them stop, and among those that do stop some can still move somewhat. There doesn't seem to be any way of telling them apart. In other words, while all titans eventually shut down without sunlight, a single night isn't always enough time.

Club Sandwich
May 25, 2012


Also, it seems like hunting titans at night would be particularly difficult since there don't seem to be any portable light sources beyond torches.

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007



Now I want to see a solar eclipse chapter

Thoren
May 28, 2008


Nighttime is loving terrifying.

I can't wait to see that blind night search in the anime.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


Something I've been curious about is why Annie killed those two captive titans. She obviously didn't do it because she hates titans, which is what everyone initially assumed was the reason they were killed. So, exactly what secret was Annie trying to keep? I'm sure those weren't the first titans ever captured, and it doesn't seem likely that every titan ever captured was killed by unknown parties. What was that researcher woman getting close to?

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.


Why do you assume those weren't the first titans captured? They made it readily apparent that capturing Titans was very hard at the outset of the series because the only way for normal people to fight them (Cutting the nape of the neck) leads to them dissolving into thin air. Before "The Worst Day in Human History" or whatever, the Scouting Legion was the smallest, least talented group because there was never any need to go out fighting titans behind the safety of the wall.

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

I'm pretty sure they describe it as being rare but they don't really make a big deal out of it like they are the very first.

It could be as simple as she didn't like seeing them being tortured for the experiments.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo


Two Tone Shoes posted:

Why do you assume those weren't the first titans captured? They made it readily apparent that capturing Titans was very hard at the outset of the series because the only way for normal people to fight them (Cutting the nape of the neck) leads to them dissolving into thin air. Before "The Worst Day in Human History" or whatever, the Scouting Legion was the smallest, least talented group because there was never any need to go out fighting titans behind the safety of the wall.

There is a pretty long section detailing the previous experiments she performed on captured Titans. They had gotten their hands on at least two or three before.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.


Giggily posted:

There is a pretty long section detailing the previous experiments she performed on captured Titans. They had gotten their hands on at least two or three before.

Wait, really? Can you link me which part? I could've swore that was her gushing about things she did to the ones they captured then and there.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Yeah, it really sounds like they're the only two ever captured. The sequence explaining all the experiments was about those two specifically, not past experiments.

They came from a very unique situation after all. That battle was the only time in all of history that the humans took territory from the titans. In other words they were stragglers that the humans could deal with at leisure. It's not exactly a simple matter to capture and transport titans in titan controlled territory.

Though I guess that was the plan with titan-Annie, and they came close to pulling it off.

Speaking of Annie, I'm pretty sure she just didn't want humans learning more about titans. Maybe how titans deal with human-titans like Eren specifically (wasn't he supposed to help her with the experiments the day they were killed?)

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

I still think her experiment logs say something like "catching titans is difficult so this is a rare opportunity." not "Holy poo poo this has never happened before"

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007



What ever happened to the other walled cities along the outermost wall? Everyone concentrated on THAT one, due to the colossal giant's attack, the basement etc., but there are at least other two or three, if I remember the maps right? It's really frustrating how slow and unreliable communications are in this world

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


hackbunny posted:

What ever happened to the other walled cities along the outermost wall? Everyone concentrated on THAT one, due to the colossal giant's attack, the basement etc., but there are at least other two or three, if I remember the maps right? It's really frustrating how slow and unreliable communications are in this world

They evacuated behind the second wall along with everyone else.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Gyges posted:

They evacuated behind the second wall along with everyone else.
I don't recall them addressing those cities specifically, though I bet they did.

The cities themselves were probably safe, which is kind of interesting. I wonder if there might be some people out there who didn't evacuate, living in their own little oases in titan territory.

Also, I wonder if it might be easier (or at least safer) to get to one of those cities, scale the walls there and take the walls to Eren's hometown. Should be safe on top of the walls, right?

Thoren
May 28, 2008


A really cool plot path to follow would be giving the humans some sort of ability to detect who a titan is in the future.

poo poo would really hit the fan then.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Eiba posted:

I don't recall them addressing those cities specifically, though I bet they did.

The cities themselves were probably safe, which is kind of interesting. I wonder if there might be some people out there who didn't evacuate, living in their own little oases in titan territory.

Also, I wonder if it might be easier (or at least safer) to get to one of those cities, scale the walls there and take the walls to Eren's hometown. Should be safe on top of the walls, right?

The big problem is that the main area of Wall Maria (the bit surrounded by the small 'blister' cities) is mainly used for food production. So you'd theoretically be safe from Titans if you stayed put, but... well, hope you like starvation.

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