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Zeikier
Jan 26, 2010

"This woman...she's killed before, and not just once..."




At first I wasn't too keen on that reveal, feeling like there wasn't a whole lot of buildup beyond that incredibly meticulous theory linked before. I said while discussing it elsewhere that we barely know much about anyone outside of Eren, Mikasa, and Armin's circle.

Then it hit me. That's been a pretty big theme with Shingeki. We barely know any more than the humans we see know, and even more specifically we barely know much about the people outside of that trio. It makes the reveal much easier to swallow rather than feeling as anticlimactic as it did initially.

I wonder if there are any prerequisites to becoming a Colossal Titan, or if it's all by chance. Makes me wonder just how large the divide in information is between the church and the other people involved with making the titan-wall, and the people who have only seen a Colossal Titan when they saw Bertholdt five years ago.

Perhaps the other CTs agreed to protect these humans by being in a wall, and people like Bert didn't want their friends or loved ones trapped like that so they wanna bust them out


Speaking of titans and walls, where did the Hairy Titan go after climbing that wall?

Zeikier fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Feb 14, 2013

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Violen
Jul 25, 2009

ohoho~


I wasn't bothered by Eren's subdued reaction at all. It follows pretty believably how a long-term friend of both men would react to such a monumental betrayal, with delayed realization. You can tell both he and Reiner quickly lose their little facades of composition, and start barely holding back flipping the gently caress out. Reiner over the irreversibility of what he just decided to do, and Eren over the fact that two more of his long-term comrades were responsible for the deaths of so many others. Plus, it wasn't so much a bombshell as an impossible-to-handle confirmation of what he, Armin, Mikasa and the others had discussed the possibilities of at length. There are some reveals in this story that demand an immediate emotional spittake, but this wasn't one of them. Especially with all the risk versus reward choices that must've been spontaneously flashing a mile a minute through Eren's overloaded mind.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.


Yo I'm a bit through the chapter but I just want to say:

loving CALLED IT.

Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Feb 14, 2013

Thoren
May 28, 2008


Simstim posted:

I hope Ymir wakes up and they have a battle royale, Eren and Ymir on one side with Reiner and Bertholdt on the other side.

Hate to break it to you buddy, but I'm pretty sure Bertholdt is mincemeat right now.

Do we know why the titans want Eren so badly?

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Yo I'm a bit through the chapter but I just want to say:

loving CALLED IT.

Hell yeah. :respek:

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Violen posted:

I wasn't bothered by Eren's subdued reaction at all. It follows pretty believably how a long-term friend of both men would react to such a monumental betrayal, with delayed realization. You can tell both he and Reiner quickly lose their little facades of composition, and start barely holding back flipping the gently caress out. Reiner over the irreversibility of what he just decided to do, and Eren over the fact that two more of his long-term comrades were responsible for the deaths of so many others. Plus, it wasn't so much a bombshell as an impossible-to-handle confirmation of what he, Armin, Mikasa and the others had discussed the possibilities of at length. There are some reveals in this story that demand an immediate emotional spittake, but this wasn't one of them. Especially with all the risk versus reward choices that must've been spontaneously flashing a mile a minute through Eren's overloaded mind.

Plus, you know, the death of his mother.

davidHalestorm
Aug 5, 2009


Thoren posted:

Hate to break it to you buddy, but I'm pretty sure Bertholdt is mincemeat right now.

Do we know why the titans want Eren so badly?

Berthold is still alive, he grabbed Ymir while Reyner grabbed Eren. But I do agree with you that Mikasa hardly going to back down from a fight with a 50 foot monster. I got the feeling that Berthodt is slow as hell compared to other Human-Titans, judging from the fact that even Eren was able to attached a line on him, all the way back near the beginning. Also, holding out hope that Rivaille is lurking somewhere nearby


I'm sure it has to do with that drat basement and Eren's dad.

Thoren
May 28, 2008


Of course it was subdued. they planned for it.

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007



"Hello, I am the armored titan and he's the colossal titan, come with us to titan city, what even is the big deal anyway?". Crazy

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


davidHalestorm posted:

Berthold is still alive, he grabbed Ymir while Reyner grabbed Eren. But I do agree with you that Mikasa hardly going to back down from a fight with a 50 foot monster.

Berthold is not a 50 foot monster; he's a 60 meter monster, about 200 feet.

For reference, that's as tall as two Giant Robos.

Hugs Boson
Feb 3, 2011

Elementary.


Ryner keeps up the act pretty well, complaining about how he almost died (twice) and even seemingly suppressing his healing factor to fix his arm. He doesn't seem to have any intention to blow his cover any time soon. Then, Eren casually mentions their home village. Now something odd happens: both Ryner and Bertholdt seem to be hit by a sudden realisation that somehow changes everything. Bertholdt's like "hey, I guess we really can go home now!" and Ryner's like "Oh my god, you're right!", which seems to trigger his rash action. At least, that's how I read it.

I wonder what has changed? It can't be the realisation that there are other human-titans within the walls, since they already knew about Eren and Annie at least. Could it have something to do with the presence of the hairy titan, which they learned about just now? Or is there something really special about Ymir?

ANIME AKBAR
Jan 25, 2007

afu~


I wouldn't have much trouble accepting this revelation if it weren't for the fact that both of them were little children (weren't they all like 10 years old back then??) when they turned into huge titans and hosed everything up. That just sounds dumb as hell.

davidHalestorm
Aug 5, 2009


Schwarzwald posted:

Berthold is not a 50 foot monster; he's a 60 meter monster, about 200 feet.

For reference, that's as tall as two Giant Robos.


Oops, I meant to write meters instead of feet. Yeah, that's the size of skyscrapers, Eren's titan form is "only" 15 meters, a dwarf in comparison. So, here's hoping Berthold is nowhere near as agile and fast as Annie was

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


ANIME AKBAR posted:

I wouldn't have much trouble accepting this revelation if it weren't for the fact that both of them were little children (weren't they all like 10 years old back then??) when they turned into huge titans and hosed everything up. That just sounds dumb as hell.

Societies regularly use child soldiers. If Annie could summon the others with her screech then Bernholdt could guide them to the wall.

It could have also been kids full of hate for the ones that abandoned them/lock up their ancestors/brutally experimented on them.

Maybe the walls were created before the Titan plague was launched?

SirDan3k
Jan 6, 2001

Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.


Again I'm putting forth the theory that he didn't summon anybody. The Mindless Titans, who have attacked and attempted to devour every Intelligent Titan they have encountered so far, simply followed him to try and eat him. Mindless Titans have showed no self preservation instinct and wouldn't hesitate to try and treat him like a very big meal.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


Hairy dude was certainly smart though and every titan near him show a certain level of deference to it. You can see it when he popped the small creepy ones eye. All the other ones had worried, scared faces.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

It seems to me that "zombie-titans" will attack human-titans (it happened to Eren, Annie and Ymir).

But Monkey Titan is something else, and that's why he wanst attacked.

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


Hairy Titan definitely supports a Faction theory.

The Titan that talked in the forest said that they were Ymir's people. I wonder what that means?

Zeikier
Jan 26, 2010

"This woman...she's killed before, and not just once..."




Excelsiortothemax posted:

Hairy Titan definitely supports a Faction theory.

The Titan that talked in the forest said that they were Ymir's people. I wonder what that means?

I was just thinking that. That titan looked like he bowed to the woman he met, and apparently Ymir has some degree of importance, and apparently that woman was...related somehow to Ymir I guess?

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


Ymir named herself, didn't she? It may be a name all zombie titans know somehow, a sort of collective memory connected to the origin of their condition.

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.


Hugs Boson posted:

Ryner keeps up the act pretty well, complaining about how he almost died (twice) and even seemingly suppressing his healing factor to fix his arm. He doesn't seem to have any intention to blow his cover any time soon. Then, Eren casually mentions their home village. Now something odd happens: both Ryner and Bertholdt seem to be hit by a sudden realisation that somehow changes everything. Bertholdt's like "hey, I guess we really can go home now!" and Ryner's like "Oh my god, you're right!", which seems to trigger his rash action. At least, that's how I read it.

I wonder what has changed? It can't be the realisation that there are other human-titans within the walls, since they already knew about Eren and Annie at least. Could it have something to do with the presence of the hairy titan, which they learned about just now? Or is there something really special about Ymir?

I thought it was more Ryner saying they started out wanting to kill all of the humans behind the wall, but he ended up becoming friends with them so he doesn't want to kill them.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Excelsiortothemax posted:

Hairy Titan definitely supports a Faction theory.

The Titan that talked in the forest said that they were Ymir's people. I wonder what that means?

I think that Ymir was one of the titan conspiracy's failed projects. She lost control when they tried making her a 'pilot', escaped, and spent time roaming with the feral packs before regaining her sanity and rejoining civilisation. This would explain both Ryner's flashback and how small, deformed, and imperfect her Titan-form is. She's a self-taught reject.

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Oh poo poo, that does make a ton of sense.

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.


Zeikier posted:

I was just thinking that. That titan looked like he bowed to the woman he met, and apparently Ymir has some degree of importance, and apparently that woman was...related somehow to Ymir I guess?

She wasn't related to Ymir, she just looked similar to Ymir.

Violen
Jul 25, 2009

ohoho~


Darth Walrus posted:

I think that Ymir was one of the titan conspiracy's failed projects. She lost control when they tried making her a 'pilot', escaped, and spent time roaming with the feral packs before regaining her sanity and rejoining civilisation. This would explain both Ryner's flashback and how small, deformed, and imperfect her Titan-form is. She's a self-taught reject.

I was going for an Occam's razor thing and just assuming the titan was a transformed human (like those of Connie's village) who knew or was close to Ymir, but I really like this.

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


Maybe Ymir was the first Titan to Human pilot instead? She said she died once, which could have been when Hairy or someone similar infected her. Then she was captured or just learned herself how to regenerate her human body.

Another thing is, perhaps all the titans have similar human growths on the nape of their necks, since Hairy was commenting on that before he tried to interrogate Mike.

Anyways, this is such an amazing series.

I hope it gets translated into English officially so I can start buying them. I feel I owe the author and artists that much for giving me this story.

Mio Bison
Dec 14, 2005

violence is who I am, loser

Volumes 1-3 were released in English last year, 4/5 are coming out in March/June. Hop to it!

Thoren
May 28, 2008


Darth Walrus posted:

I think that Ymir was one of the titan conspiracy's failed projects. She lost control when they tried making her a 'pilot', escaped, and spent time roaming with the feral packs before regaining her sanity and rejoining civilisation. This would explain both Ryner's flashback and how small, deformed, and imperfect her Titan-form is. She's a self-taught reject.

I don't think so. Remember the random Titan that referred to her as "Ymir-Sama" a while back?

Could that titan have been remembering her as a titan or a human?

How would it recognize a human form Ymir?

It seems that something out there turns humans into Titans.


1. Ryner, Annie, and Bertholdt could not return to their village.
2. That village randomly began turning titanized recently.
3. Ymir has has titans that recognize her. Maybe they were humans from her village? Where was Ymir from again?

Thoren fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Feb 15, 2013

Mo_Steel
Mar 7, 2008

Let's Clock Into The Sunset Together



Fun Shoe

I decided to reread this series from the beginning, and holy gently caress I somehow forgot how grisly as gently caress this gets. The part where Eren is in a Titan's stomach and one of the other people is deliriously complaining to their mother about it being hot while they dissolve in stomach acid. :black101: :psyboom:

Also that Ryner and Berthold were the first to really suggest they should attempt to help Titan-Eren before anyone knew it was Eren. Given that they were titans, they probably already suspected something was up.

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

When Ymir first transforms, Ryner says something like "it's the Titan from your village. " at the time it looks like Ymir wandered into their village in Titan form at some point and started eating people. But what does it mean if they were all titans themselves?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



OK, second bit of speculation, this time on the ape-Titan. Let's assume for a moment that Titans are universally artificial constructs - a super-soldier project that turned into an uncontrollable plague, or something. Now, we currently have two types of titan - the human-Titans, who are basically mecha pilots with a dangerous and unreliable control system, and the feral Titans, who lost control (or never gained it in the first place) and devolved into twisted, mindless monsters (sub-speculation - they eat people out of a sense of loss, attempting to give themselves new pilots to replace those that lost their minds and were absorbed into their bodies).

However, let's bring in another possibility - that feral Titans can develop a sentience of their own after a given amount of time, a wholly alien mindset devoid of the memories of the humans they once were. Their actions take on some measure of reason and strategy, they learn to communicate with each other, maybe even socialise. Eventually, they become just as smart as you or me. This may be how more Titans get made - by ascended ferals taking human prisoners and using them to replenish their ranks. In this context, ape-dude is a feral messiah, a truly ancient Titan (perhaps even one of the original researchers) whose gradual ascendancy has made him the leader of a new species. Whilst the human-Titan conspiracy has their own goals (maybe researching titans to turn them back into safe, non-sentient weapons with which their pilots can mount a power-grab), Mr. Hairy wants to create a new world order, replacing the human race with immortal giants like him. His invasion of the city is a recruitment drive, crushing any who resist and Titanifying the rest using techniques he only half-remembers.

Kind of wild, I know, but I think it fits quite well with what we've got.

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


I believe his appearance was more intelligence gathering that anything else. Hairy Titan didn't not know what the 3dms was neither did he know for sure that they spoke the same language. It also seemed to me that he could control the feral titans in a much better way than we have seen before. I believe he wanted to see how the humans fought against titans and to take that back to where ever.

Blattdorf
Aug 10, 2012

"This will be the best for both of us, Bradley."
"Meow."


Wild theory time: the titan who spoke Ymir's name way back when was actually Ryner. (Reiner, Ryner...)

Rime
Nov 2, 2011



Who is it that compliments Ymir on being able to read the label on that canned food down in the basement of the tower a few chapters back? What a twist it would be if it turns out that it's actually Erens dad that turned Ryner and Co. into Titans, and is in fact the hairy titan! It's still interesting to consider that things have been going on for so long that entire languages have died out or evolved.

Rime fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 16, 2013

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

That was also Reiner.

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


Why was it such a surprise though? Since everyone is from different cultures some old languages would remain, Reiner acted really surprised that Ymir could read english.

Also Hairy Titan isn't Eren's dad since He knew all about the people living in the wall. He COULD be a Human-Titan pilot, but I think that's as far as it goes.

Here is a question, was his dad ever wearing anything with a symbol from the Church of the Wall?

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

I think it'd be closer to the surprise one might feel toward someone who walks up and casually reads, say, ancient Sumerian cuneiform or something, not English or some other language that is rare but still spoken/read in the present day.

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


AnonSpore posted:

I think it'd be closer to the surprise one might feel toward someone who walks up and casually reads, say, ancient Sumerian cuneiform or something, not English or some other language that is rare but still spoken/read in the present day.

I was thinking something more akin to Latin vs modern languages but yeah.

Disposable Intern
Aug 26, 2008


Been re-reading this again and I wonder if anyone else knows this: Why doesn't the Scouting Legion head straight for the nearest section of Wall Maria and travel atop it? Is it because they'd have to theoretically abandon their horses to do so? I can't remember any conversations touching on that. Are only the sections of The Walls around the cities traversable?

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RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


It hasn't been stated, but I assume because they'd have to abandon their horses, supplies, and anyone without 3D gear.

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