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Gantolandon posted:This would be weird, because Eren hadn't had the Attack Titan yet. He didn't have it yet either when he had the 'See you later, Eren' dream at the very beginning of the series yet everyone seems to think that is memories from the future, the anime even doubled down on it by previewing the titans rushing the walls.
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Nov 10, 2019 20:40
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iamsosmrt posted:Not that I expect this to enter the plot, but technically anyone who's ever held the Attack Titan before or even after Eren could have influenced his or his father's actions at any point of the story. It could very well come out that the will of the first Attack Titan has a similar control or manipulation like the king in the royal family/Founding Titan. No. As far as I understand it, only Eren has unlocked this hidden ability. The Attack Titan has been MIA since ever, so no real chance of buddying up with a royal blood, go into sand dreamscape, subvert deals etc. Either Eren did it all, or he only knows as much as he showed Zeke. But I got the idea that the will of the Attack Titan IS Eren's, and has always been going forward to reach this specific point in its plan.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:29
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Gantolandon posted:This would be weird, because Eren hadn't had the Attack Titan yet. In the Memory Trip, baby Eren was able to see adult Eren and Zeke, at least hazily like Grisha could.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:37
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I liked the panel of Mikasa enjoying ice cream 
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Nov 11, 2019 03:06
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Elijah Snow posted:No. As far as I understand it, only Eren has unlocked this hidden ability. The Attack Titan has been MIA since ever, so no real chance of buddying up with a royal blood, go into sand dreamscape, subvert deals etc. Either Eren did it all, or he only knows as much as he showed Zeke. But I got the idea that the will of the Attack Titan IS Eren's, and has always been going forward to reach this specific point in its plan. Did they give a specific history of the Attack Titan? I assumed it's always existed in someone regardless of whether the Eldians recorded its history. I'll have to re-read the story from the start at some point.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:33
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iamsosmrt posted:Not that I expect this to enter the plot, but technically anyone who's ever held the Attack Titan before or even after Eren could have influenced his or his father's actions at any point of the story. It could very well come out that the will of the first Attack Titan has a similar control or manipulation like the king in the royal family/Founding Titan. Remember when Eren was like "your being controlled by the titans memories" to Armin? I feel like that was a case of him projecting and it was basicly Eren saying that he was being controlled by the memories. But then there also the time travel fuckery where Eren saw everything so no idea how it all mixes up.
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Nov 11, 2019 07:20
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I haven't checked in for several months now since Zeke was trying to reach/make physical contact with Eren, is the Rumbling finally happening? The last time I checked in before that, Eren was slaughtering people in Marley as a Titan so I'm feeling lost in the current narrative. How close is the manga to the end now?
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 07:58
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The manga is on its last stretch, maybe 3 ~ 11 chapters left. Eren has unlocked the full power of the Founding Titan.
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Nov 11, 2019 08:18
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Conspiratiorist posted:The manga is on its last stretch, maybe 3 ~ 11 chapters left. Yowza!  I was planning on marathoning this manga once it got close to the end or finished as opposed to waiting month-to-month, just checking in occasionally for interesting tidbits like the Beast Titan speaking, the basement reveal, the Marley/Paradise injection pits (which was really hosed up imo), etcI guess now's the time, huh? Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 09:24
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Yes, jump in rather than repeatedly asking if you should jump in, now is as good a time as any
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Nov 11, 2019 11:24
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Now is really your last chance to jump in. In a few months you'll be reading a finished series.
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Nov 11, 2019 17:44
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Right now, all I want for the ending is for the Rumbling to be successful, Armin and Mikasa to gently caress off, Eren to hook up with Historia, and the final panel being Eren holding his and Historia's daughter, whom they have named Ymir.
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Nov 12, 2019 20:46
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I don't even know what I want, but I have faith that it's going to be good and  mind blowing. This series hasn't failed me since the beginning, which is unprecedented in my manga experience. It'll be the first I re-read.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:55
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Yah post timeskip really delivered. The finale is gonna be great. Isayama clearly put a gently caress ton of work into the storyline before he started drawing.
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Nov 13, 2019 06:08
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Fister Roboto posted:I liked the panel of Mikasa enjoying ice cream Same. Happiest we've seen her in a long time. 
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Nov 14, 2019 15:35
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iamsosmrt posted:Did they give a specific history of the Attack Titan? I assumed it's always existed in someone regardless of whether the Eldians recorded its history. I'll have to re-read the story from the start at some point. The specific history is that it was never caught, never there. If at any point in the past it had cooperated with the founding titan maybe they would have found these new abilities, but it never happened or the current hosts would have known. It seems to be a sliver of GET FREE ideology that Ymir suppressed in herself and planted in the world for her future self. It could also be all of the explanations because none of them are exclusive to each other, we don't really know the depths of Eren's knowledge regarding this. Not like it matters because that's not what the story is about anyway.
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Nov 15, 2019 18:21
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Some random things I spotted after watching the anime again. 1. The Attack Titan is the only one that explitly causes memory loss in its inheritors, to the point when each successive inheritors warns their descendant about it. No other titans does this (the Founding Titan rewrites its users personality instead). 2. Eren's vision at the beginning is most probably a software update, because he nearly immediately starts to rage about humanity not being prepared enough for the titans. It's probably not his first one – I suspect he got outside help with finding and dispatching the bandits. 3. When in his berserk mode during the last fight with Annie, he starts to scream about "destroying the world", which seems completely out of character – but he's trying to do exactly that right now. 4. Kruger is infected with his memories so much, that he not only speaks like future Eren, but even namedrops Mikasa and Armin. Later, Grisha pretty much drags his son to Ackermanns' homestead, no doubt remembering their daughter was the one mentioned by the previous Attack Titan holder. It really seems like Eren is projecting when telling Mikasa he hates her for being a slave. Not only he gets half of the manga spoilered after touching Historia at the end of the Return to Shiganshina arc – he seems to have been prepared for this role long before that, to the point where it's hard to be sure where Eren Yeager ends and the Attack Titan begins. I don't think any character in the entire anime has less free will than him.
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Nov 18, 2019 14:31
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Gantolandon posted:Some random things I spotted after watching the anime again. Yeah, I mentioned that three pages ago, how he is the character with less freedom, ironic. In a way that would explain his obsession with freedom...
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Nov 18, 2019 15:26
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Nah, the Attack Titan has always been Eren, not the other way around. He made the prior holders slaves to his will; the Attack Titan's directive for freedom was always his own. He is the only truly Free Man in a world of slaves, and thus is the heroic Ubermensch for trying to destroy such a rotten society. His enemies (and, in fact, many of his hypocritical so-called allies) have been nothing but Last Men ultimately trying to perpetuate the immoral system in one way or another. He can only be defeated by someone who also wishes to destroy that global society (Armin or Historia). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 18, 2019 16:58
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Yeah I don’t think he’s so much a slave to predestination but instead sees that his plan will work, so he chooses to put it into action with knowledge of the future.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:05
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Nah, the Attack Titan has always been Eren, not the other way around. He made the prior holders slaves to his will; the Attack Titan's directive for freedom was always his own. I don't buy it. Armin calls Eren a slave after getting beaten up by him. It's not a very crafty insult – pretty much "no u" – but it made him extremely angry. Besides, his own logic doesn't add up. He accuses Armin of not being himself because inheriting memories (and his love for Annie) from Berthold. He himself holds memories of at least five different people: Grisha, Frieda Reiss, the Warhammer Titan holder, his future self and Ymir Fritz. The old Eren was pretty much gone as soon as he kissed Historia's hand and it wasn't even the start of it; his earliest memory update we know about happened hours before the fall of Shiganshina ("See you later, Eren" in manga and the weird vision in anime). Maybe even earlier, given that the baby Eren reacts to his older self in the memory. Edit: Also – Eren as an Ubermensch is a theory that was raised in the anime and explicitly stated as wrong. Keith Shadis was a staunch believer in Great People who change the world and the sheep that can only follow them. After realizing he's not special enough to lead the Survey Corps, he gave up the command to Erwin and became an instructor, most likely to find his Chosen One and at least be the one who shapes them. He admits to having sabotaged Eren's 3D Maneuvering Gear, just because he thought Grisha's son is not special enough – then realizes he was wrong when, despite the setback, Eren manages not to topple for a while. Shadis' worldview is rejected by three different characters. Eren tells him he doesn't consider himself special, just a right person in the right place. Carla straight out states that for her it doesn't matter; her son is special enough because he was born to this world. Hange considers her former commander a coward who found a convenient excuse to run away from his failures. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 21:28
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Gantolandon posted:Besides, his own logic doesn't add up. He accuses Armin of not being himself because inheriting memories (and his love for Annie) from Berthold. He himself holds memories of at least five different people: Grisha, Frieda Reiss, the Warhammer Titan holder, his future self and Ymir Fritz. The old Eren was pretty much gone as soon as he kissed Historia's hand and it wasn't even the start of it; his earliest memory update we know about happened hours before the fall of Shiganshina ("See you later, Eren" in manga and the weird vision in anime). Maybe even earlier, given that the baby Eren reacts to his older self in the memory. So? He just had a moment of revelation, specifically "holy poo poo, I was right all along and we really do need to genocide them all and I'm gonna be the one to do it." He wasn't "gone", it's just a lot to take in all at once, and even over the course of four years. I think he handled it pretty well, all told. quote:Shadis' worldview is rejected by three different characters. Eren tells him he doesn't consider himself special, just a right person in the right place. Carla straight out states that for her it doesn't matter; her son is special enough because he was born to this world. Hange considers her former commander a coward who found a convenient excuse to run away from his failures. And all three of those people were wrong in the end. Eren shouldn't have doubted himself, he really was the special chosen one to save the world from itself (I feel his real character arc is him realizing his friends are idealistic idiots holding him back, and the strength of his will matched with his determination to see his ideals through to the end is the real power he needed all along). Carla was wrong because Eren's father specifically bore him to bear the Attack Titan (as it turns out due to Eren's will itself, so really Eren is the Chosen One because he chose himself). Hange was revealed this last arc to be just as much a hypocritical cowardly commander as Shadis, and listening to their's and Armin's and their wishy-washy pacifism rather than do the needful would have definitely doomed Paradis to extermination at the hands of Marley, not to mention their willingness to perpetuate the brood mare system to keep control of the Titan Powers . Kerning Chameleon fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 01:26
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genocide guy probably isnt the good guy and will get beat up
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Nov 19, 2019 02:10
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Farg posted:genocide guy probably isnt the good guy and will get beat up As much as I would love for this to be true and have Eren go out like anime Walter White, this probably is all According to Keikaku or will end in Talk no Jutsu bullshit or something.  I just want to savor this glorious moment while it lasts.
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Nov 19, 2019 02:17
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I wonder what crazy rear end poo poo Erwin would have had to say about all this
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Nov 19, 2019 04:46
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Really hard to say. He was the most ruthless of them all, but it's possible he'd have preferred to sacrifice Historia and multiple generations of her descendants to maintain the deterrent than genociding the globe. What's for sure is that the Jaegerists wouldn't have taken over under his watch.
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Nov 19, 2019 05:08
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Yeah, I think we can all agree with Hange that they absolutely screwed the pooch on all this.
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Nov 19, 2019 06:07
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Kerning Chameleon posted:So? He just had a moment of revelation, specifically "holy poo poo, I was right all along and we really do need to genocide them all and I'm gonna be the one to do it." He wasn't "gone", it's just a lot to take in all at once, and even over the course of four years. I think he handled it pretty well, all told. Not really. He even implies that Ymir Fritz specifically tasked him with freeing her. "You've been waiting for me 2000 years". quote:And all three of those people were wrong in the end. Eren shouldn't have doubted himself, he really was the special chosen one to save the world from itself (I feel his real character arc is him realizing his friends are idealistic idiots holding him back, and the strength of his will matched with his determination to see his ideals through to the end is the real power he needed all along). There were no realization. He desperately tried to find another way, but everything happened exactly as his earlier memories showed him (to the point where he could predict exactly where his friends show up to cock block him). He even tried to find a pretext to not go with the Rumbling, but Mikasa chickened out in the crucial moment and the opportunity was gone. quote:Carla was wrong because Eren's father specifically bore him to bear the Attack Titan (as it turns out due to Eren's will itself, so really Eren is the Chosen One because he chose himself). Carla's stance was that you don't have to be special to matter, you just have to be born. Which is a philosophy that Eren adopted completely – "because I was born to this world" is something that he tells pretty much everyone who asks him to defend his actions. Most recently to Zeke. quote:Hange was revealed this last arc to be just as much a hypocritical cowardly commander as Shadis Shadis wasn't hipocritical, he just took his philosophy to its logical conclusion. After realizing he is not special, he gave up the Scouts to someone who (in his opinion) was, and hosed off to find his Chosen One. I don't also get how Hange is hipocritical. They were never into "sacrifice everything for humanity" worldview that Erwin spouted, their thing was knowledge about titans. quote:, and listening to their's and Armin's and their wishy-washy pacifism rather than do the needful would have definitely doomed Paradis to extermination at the hands of Marley, not to mention their willingness to perpetuate the brood mare system to keep control of the Titan Powers . Eren never even gave them a choice. He never told them that he intends to initiate a full Rumbling. The limited one along with the brood mare system is the only solution that Zeke put on the table and they jumped on it, because they thought to be out of options. Hange would have opposed extermination of humanity beyond the walls, but Zackley would probably accept it "with a heavy heart". Super Rad posted:I wonder what crazy rear end poo poo Erwin would have had to say about all this Erwin would be useless, that's why Levi didn't give him the serum. The only thing that let him be the heartless bastard was proving that his father was right. He lived with enormous guilt and giving up his life was the only choice for him not to feel like a massive hipocrite. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 11:59
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Why do people bother replying to KC? ED: Thanks mod.
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Nov 19, 2019 19:16
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Gantolandon posted:I don't also get how Hange is hipocritical. They were never into "sacrifice everything for humanity" worldview that Erwin spouted, their thing was knowledge about titans. They? I also dont see why she would be be hypocritical
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Nov 19, 2019 19:27
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Elias_Maluco posted:They? I also dont see why she would be be hypocritical Hange's gender in the manga is very ambiguous.
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Nov 19, 2019 20:53
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Gantolandon posted:Hange's gender in the manga is very ambiguous. Huh, I never noticed any ambiguity
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Nov 19, 2019 21:32
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Huh? Hange was always immediately coded as female to me, though that might be because I started with the anime so that characterization followed into my reading the manga.
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Nov 19, 2019 22:01
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:Huh? Hange was always immediately coded as female to me, though that might be because I started with the anime so that characterization followed into my reading the manga. I never watched the anime and for me Hange was always obvsiously a woman But if even the author says its supposed to be ambiguous, I guess it is Or maybe it was just that some fans for some reason though it was and he decided to play along, which is cool too
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Nov 19, 2019 22:24
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Yeah it's not that Isayama is making Hange being non-binary A Thing, but that the combination of her androgynous looks and personality is supposed to leave characters wondering - yet it's a question whose answer is ultimately irrelevant. His take is a tongue-in-cheek "Hange is Hange". Like, reminder this is also the author that had Armin masquerade as a girl and get molested as a gag. Don't be disappointed if in the epilogue she has 3 kids with Onyankopon or whatever.
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Nov 19, 2019 22:49
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Maybe it's been a while but I don't remember reading Armin getting molested as a gag. It certainly wasn't portrayed that way in the anime.
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Nov 19, 2019 23:19
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It definitely wasn't a gag
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Nov 20, 2019 00:07
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If you found it funny then maybe you are the problem cause it sure wasn't a gag
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Nov 20, 2019 00:50
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It is portrayed as molestation and traumatizing and was hard to read/watch in my opinion. As for Hange...I dunno...You could read “she” into it by cataloguing the “evidence” as such, but that kinda gets at the heart of why framing everything by binary genders is lazy thinking. It would be easier to write an ambiguous character than an explicitly tokenized one if you already had a less binary approach. It would be, as they say, only natural.
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Nov 20, 2019 03:30
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Given that Hange's gender is ambiguous out in manga, it's perfectly acceptable to use "she". I used "they", because I frequently talk to people who are very passionate about LGBT+ issues and would most likely correct me if they only knew what this amine is about. But there is one more reason to use "they". Isayama obviously took a lot from Norse mythology and Hange is definitely based on Odin, down to the eye lost in a well, obsession about knowledge and replacing a one-handed individual as the head of the pantheon. And Odin's gender was a bit of a mystery, with his shapeshifting and magic that in this culture only women could use.
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Nov 20, 2019 09:48
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