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Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


Lamebot posted:

Oh hey, it's that poster again in the anime thread doing plot dumps under the guise of speculation. They openly stated that they wondered how Udo and Zofia will die next episode. That person is weird.

Yeah it's pretty obvious too. They keep saying someone is on a plan with Zeke, even though the anime has cut scenes which would trigger those suspicions, plus no other anime viewer has even pointed it out and now they're calling deaths that haven't even happened or been hinted at yet. I think mods spoke with them last time they were doing it and were convinced they were genuinely anime only, but I think they've given themselves away after that comment.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Asuron posted:

Yeah it's pretty obvious too. They keep saying someone is on a plan with Zeke, even though the anime has cut scenes which would trigger those suspicions, plus no other anime viewer has even pointed it out and now they're calling deaths that haven't even happened or been hinted at yet. I think mods spoke with them last time they were doing it and were convinced they were genuinely anime only, but I think they've given themselves away after that comment.

I mean, it's not an absurd guess, if I was playing devil-of-all-the-Earth's advocate.

Attack on Titan has a reputation for killing characters, and if you watch for patterns, Udo and Zophia fall right into the Levi Squad and Mike space, where they get enough characterization that you care if they die, but no plot hooks that their deaths would lose. If you assume that Gabi as girl-Eren is going to lose someone in the Grim Reminder, then they're the obvious picks, since her family hasn't had the screentime to work for the audience as a motivator.

Brightman
Feb 24, 2005

I've seen fun you people wouldn't believe.
Tiki torches on fire off the summit of Kilauea.
I watched disco balls glitter in the dark near the Brandenburg Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like crowds in rain.

Time to sleep.


Someone I know is anime only was speculating that those two would die next episode but also Falco's brother, Colt. This was all based off how much they've been characterized and such, plus his brother dying because of him would be a powerful beat which....yeah but not yet.

So it's reasonable speculation I think, at least just that, but if they're nailing several things, perhaps things further out, then that's suspect.

JahRoo
Oct 22, 2010




This person last season got accused of spoiling poo poo under the guise of speculation and i think got probe'd for it, and was pretty adamant that it was just speculation (which lol that's the biggest spoiler of all if you just tell someone speculating to shut the gently caress up).

So like, I understand the skepticism but idk at this point I'm willing to concede this is probably sincere and just the result of this particular person really enjoying re-watching to pick apart details.

Asuron posted:

Yeah it's pretty obvious too. They keep saying someone is on a plan with Zeke, even though the anime has cut scenes which would trigger those suspicions, plus no other anime viewer has even pointed it out and now they're calling deaths that haven't even happened or been hinted at yet. I think mods spoke with them last time they were doing it and were convinced they were genuinely anime only, but I think they've given themselves away after that comment.

I thought Zeke was in on some kind of plot when it became clear the Marleyan military didn't know he had royal blood. I think that's revealed in the 2nd episode this season? It's when he tells Colt he'll reveal his secret to wiping his rear end but it's clear that the military doesn't understand why his Beast titan has pseudo-founder powers. My thinking being that if he didn't reveal all of this to the military after turning his parents in, it meant that this was in service of some larger plan. I felt the existence of a plot was all but confirmed when Zeke let Falco take Reiner over to the building with Eren right before the big announcement.

So again I get the skepticism, but I don't think any of the predictions are that crazy, and we've already been down this path with this exact poster.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Gantolandon posted:

Without this motivation, and necessity to treat their Eldian minority as constantly armed nuclear bombs, hostility towards them should gradually decline.

Counterpoint: all of recorded human history

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





JahRoo posted:

I thought Zeke was in on some kind of plot when it became clear the Marleyan military didn't know he had royal blood. I think that's revealed in the 2nd episode this season? It's when he tells Colt he'll reveal his secret to wiping his rear end but it's clear that the military doesn't understand why his Beast titan has pseudo-founder powers. My thinking being that if he didn't reveal all of this to the military after turning his parents in, it meant that this was in service of some larger plan. I felt the existence of a plot was all but confirmed when Zeke let Falco take Reiner over to the building with Eren right before the big announcement.

Eren also got a baseball glove from someone when in the hospital, and Zeke's the big baseball fan in the cast. It's pretty suspicious on its own, especially since there's not much other reason in the narrative to give him a ball and glove.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



chiasaur11 posted:

Eren also got a baseball glove from someone when in the hospital, and Zeke's the big baseball fan in the cast. It's pretty suspicious on its own, especially since there's not much other reason in the narrative to give him a ball and glove.

There are nine titan shifters and nine people on the field per team in baseball. He’s obviously making plans for the greatest all-star team to ever exist. Zeke’s already a pitcher and imagine the colossal Titan playing center field.

Ethiser fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jan 12, 2021

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Ethiser posted:

There are nine titan shifters and nine people on the field per team in baseball. He’s obviously making plans for the greatest all-star team to ever exist.

And by eating the Founder, Grisha doomed that dream.

No wonder Zeke is so vengeful.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Eej posted:

Counterpoint: all of recorded human history
I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Azumabitos' reaction seems much more realistic to me - they see an opportunity to make money off of Eldia's natural resources and want to exploit them. It would make a lot more sense for industrialized nations to jockey over who gets to exploit the emerging economy and natural resources of Paradis for gain, not cheer an outright massacre to the last man.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 12, 2021

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


Reading the manga properly for the first time thanks to the humble bundle, before this I'd only read past season 3's ending. Honestly I think the anime has done a great job adapting everything, though I've noticed there are interesting character moments missed and important conversations sometimes cut short. e.g. Eren and Historia's relationship seems to be developing more in print.

No Wave posted:

I'm not sure what you're referring to.
They're making the point that in the real world people don't need a reason to be racist and despite generations of effort it is still systemic across human civilization.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Professor Wayne posted:

Looking at AoT and Sekiro, are immortal, anti-decapitation centipedes a thing in Japan?

It's a product of Japan's fusion of Shintoism and Buddhism. Centipedes are a symbol of kegare (spiritual and physical uncleanliness/corruption) in Shinto. Meanwhile, Buddhism has the concept of duḥkha, the fundamental suffering of earthly existence caused by unfulfilled and unfulfillable material desire, with the quest for immortality being a particularly dangerous temptation because it permanently anchors you to the imperfect, painful material world. This causes your soul to stagnate and corrupt like water in a puddle, without the chance to evolve towards enlightenment and the true freedom of nonexistence by cleansing away your material self in the life/death flow of samsara. Combine Shinto impurity imagery with the Buddhist revulsion for fleshly immortality, and you get creepy, evil immortal centipedes.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





No Wave posted:

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Azumabitos' reaction is much more realistic - they see an opportunity to make money off of Eldia's natural resources and want to exploit them. It would make a lot more sense for industrialized nations to jockey over who gets to exploit the emerging economy and natural resources of Paradis for gain, not cheer an outright massacre to the last man.

There have been people thinking like that throughout human history. That everyone is basically rational, that things can be mapped out rationally, that everything will make sense.

Things don't tend to go well for them.

People aren't rational. You can't get someone to die for a cause just by showing a balance sheet where someone else profits. You need something as simple as death to accept death. Love and hate tend to go beyond what makes any pragmatic sense.

The world can change. Maybe the hatred for Eldians can be removed in time. (Having a military strong enough to crush the world and then not being a dick with it would probably help, as would the image of Paradis's soldiers stopping the rumbling) but expecting the hatred to go away just because there's money in it? That's a much less realistic view of people's interactions than this manga tends to go in for.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


You're calling me unrealistic because I don't believe the entire industrialized world would mobilize and kill every person in a country, at great risk, for no gain. That's fine, we can agree to see the world differently.

EDIT: It all makes less sense the more I think about it... Willy Tybur was willing to die to make sure every nation in the world got locked into an unwinnable war vs Eldia, because of things that happened a century ago? And Eren, who has the power to see every possible future, chooses the course of action that makes Paradis look as scary as possible? Who knows, we have three more chapters I guess.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 12, 2021

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


After the stunt Willy Tybur pulled, the world was sure as hell poised & able to go genocide Paradis - who perhaps I need remind you is a small island nation with no strategic allies that lags a century behind in military technology and infrastructure.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jan 12, 2021

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



No Wave posted:

You're calling me unrealistic because I don't believe the entire industrialized world would mobilize and kill every person in a country, at great risk, for no gain. That's fine, we can agree to see the world differently.

EDIT: It all makes less sense the more I think about it... Willy Tybur was willing to die to make sure every nation in the world got locked into an unwinnable war vs Eldia, because of things that happened a century ago? And Eren, who has the power to see every possible future, chooses the course of action that makes Paradis look as scary as possible? Who knows, we have three more chapters I guess.

At least a portion of those countries, like turkey, are under either direct economic rule or outright occupation.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


There are many examples of racial animus driving irrational prejudices over centuries that affect us to this very day. African slaves were brought over to the Americas at the beginning of the 17th century and the fallout from that decision still affects us in 2021 through the American Civil War and the failure of Reconstruction. If you want a post industrial example of what people can do for resources look at the Scramble for Africa or even just the Belgian Congo. The people of the African continent weren't seen as the racial enemy of the world either. The Armenians were seen as the enemy of the state and were genocided out of Turkey as an excuse for racial unification. Also, of course, the persistence of antisemitism over thousands of years.

Expecting racial tension to simmer down because the Titans are gone or whatever is the least realistic thing you can pull off in this manga of evil centipede spawned flesh mechs

mightygerm
Jun 29, 2002





No Wave posted:

You're calling me unrealistic because I don't believe the entire industrialized world would mobilize and kill every person in a country, at great risk, for no gain. That's fine, we can agree to see the world differently.

EDIT: It all makes less sense the more I think about it... Willy Tybur was willing to die to make sure every nation in the world got locked into an unwinnable war vs Eldia, because of things that happened a century ago? And Eren, who has the power to see every possible future, chooses the course of action that makes Paradis look as scary as possible? Who knows, we have three more chapters I guess.

I'm not sure where the 'no gain' part comes from - they were all at risk for a rumbling. Eldia is comparable to a country with WMDS that has a volatile leader that might actually use them. Surely no international coalitions would band together to invade a country like that, right?

MagicBoots
Mar 29, 2010

How about we pump the atmosphere full of methane?
You put me on Cargo handling optimization?! I am the premier defense specialist in the entirety of the UN!
Don't you dare pull my funding!
You can't cut back on funding!
You will regret this!

No Wave posted:

You're calling me unrealistic because I don't believe the entire industrialized world would mobilize and kill every person in a country, at great risk, for no gain.

When an oppressed minority gains the ability to strike back at their oppressors, or hold them at risk in any way, those oppressors freak the gently caress out. They despise the people on Paradis and have for generations now, they view holding the Eldians in internment zones as a perfectly acceptable and rational practice. That they could be easily spurred to genocide seems perfectly plausible.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


It might be difficult for some people to grok, but not all societal and geopolitical decisions are spurred on by "rational" capitalistic self-interest.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Remember that Willy Tybur was Eldian and was well loved, and viewed as a savior.

It's likely that the ones who beat Eren will be viewed similarly. As Heroes from Paradis who despite having nothing to lose from this saved the rest of the world anyway. While not everyone would accept this, if the Titan powers are destroyed at the same time by them, they may be content to live with it. Paradis is fairly powerful now and it's not like Marely can send the army they don't have at it.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

mightygerm posted:

Eldia is comparable to a country with WMDS that has a volatile leader that might actually use them. Surely no international coalitions would band together to invade a country like that, right?

I don't know, has the entire world invaded the US? :V

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





No Wave posted:

EDIT: It all makes less sense the more I think about it... Willy Tybur was willing to die to make sure every nation in the world got locked into an unwinnable war vs Eldia, because of things that happened a century ago? And Eren, who has the power to see every possible future, chooses the course of action that makes Paradis look as scary as possible? Who knows, we have three more chapters I guess.

Willy saw a way to, in one stroke:

1) Purge Marley's corrupt military government and install a competent and (relatively) moral veteran as chief of state.
2) Reduce international enmity toward Eldians outside of Paradis
3) Neutralize a possible apocalyptic threat
and
4) Die in a way that assuages his endless self loathing.

He just didn't count on Eren and the Paradisian forces having that well developed a plan, or on wonderboy Zeke being a traitor. Thus, things going wrong, and people dying he didn't plan to get killed.

As for Eren, he doesn't see every possible future.

He sees bits and pieces of one future.

And apparently, he sees something at the end of this hell that justifies all this, at least from his point of view.

chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jan 12, 2021

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


chiasaur11 posted:

And apparently, he sees something at the end of this hell that justifies all this, at least from his point of view.

From the Season 3 season end credits:

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy


MonsterEnvy posted:

Remember that Willy Tybur was Eldian and was well loved, and viewed as a savior.

It's likely that the ones who beat Eren will be viewed similarly. As Heroes from Paradis who despite having nothing to lose from this saved the rest of the world anyway. While not everyone would accept this, if the Titan powers are destroyed at the same time by them, they may be content to live with it. Paradis is fairly powerful now and it's not like Marely can send the army they don't have at it.

Would a story like this be believed, after Tybur admitted the last one was a sham?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Viridiant posted:

Would a story like this be believed, after Tybur admitted the last one was a sham?

Tons of people are witnessing it, several even commented about it and started cheering them.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Can't wait to crack open a cold one with the boys next week.

Vanderdeath
Oct 1, 2005

I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.





DaveKap posted:

Can't wait to crack open a cold one with the boys next week.

The Nutcracker Suite will probably be the week after this one unfortunately. I'm looking forward to it though.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


yeah this battle’s going to be 2 episodes at least

Eustace
Feb 26, 2009


I was looking up how tall Yelena was after seeing people online speculate that the soldier in disguise is Armin and yo I had no idea yelena was this freaking massive

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Eustace posted:

I was looking up how tall Yelena was after seeing people online speculate that the soldier in disguise is Armin and yo I had no idea yelena was this freaking massive



That's a fan calculation, and Attack on Titan has a bit of inconsistency from panel to panel making guesses unreliable without an official fanbook for reference, but yeah. The only character who might be taller than Yelena is Shadis, and if that calculation is right, he's about 4cm shorter.

Yelena's taller than some titans.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


the bigger Yelena theory

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


Why is an aerial shot of wartime Falco part of Eren's memories? Is he seeing through Ymir who sees through the birds? He 'remembers' the pigs, too

bees x1000 fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jan 14, 2021

JahRoo
Oct 22, 2010




I assume he can remember the pigs because Ymir previously held the combination of all the titans, so an especially advanced or awakened or whatever shifter would be able to reach all the way back to her memories.

Not sure about falco though maybe it's a sign that Eren eats him?

Gaj
Apr 30, 2006


He also seeks Zeke on the ground reaching out to catch his head. And Grandpa Jaeger.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy


JahRoo posted:

I assume he can remember the pigs because Ymir previously held the combination of all the titans, so an especially advanced or awakened or whatever shifter would be able to reach all the way back to her memories.

Not sure about falco though maybe it's a sign that Eren eats him?

Or Falco eats Eren.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


if Falco was the next Attack Titan, Eren would see things from his POV

Gaj posted:

He also seeks Zeke on the ground reaching out to catch his head. And Grandpa Jaeger.

But those are things Eren is actually present for.

bees x1000 fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jan 14, 2021

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Note also in that image that Eren sees Bertolt from the perspective of the Smiling Titan/Dina the day of Wall Maria was destroyed, which shouldn't be possible based on the information we have currently.

Could be that there's an incoming twist that the Founder's connection with the "Source of All Living Matter" means Eren is functionally omniscient and can see the memories of all Eldians, and possibly all living creatures (such as the birds in Chapter 130/131)

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy


bees x1000 posted:

if Falco was the next Attack Titan, Eren would see things from his POV

Does that mean the bird is the next Attack Titan.

Lamebot
Sep 8, 2005

ロボ顔菌~♡


titans are birds. thats why they're so light.

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DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Hell I’m all for eren becoming Leto II

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