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Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...


I think it's also worth noting that Eren never truly destroyed that walls that enclosed him - he just gave them legs to move with him.

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Captain_duck
Dec 3, 2005

I swear nice bushes!

whalestory posted:

And what are people's reading on Eren's sitdown with Mikasa, Armin, and Gabi where he talks about Ackerman's being slaves and beating up Armin? Armin later argues that Eren made that Ackerman master/slave thing up, but Mikasa pinning Armin down seemed pretty convincing at the time... which also makes me wonder why Eren keeps insisting that he's not a slave and that he's free. That freedom doesn't seem to necessarily jive with is future actions, but I dunno.

I also think it's pretty important to remember that he only sees what a future Attack Titan shifter shows him, which is presumably himself, but could also be... Falco? Or someone else? The anime addition of Falco dreaming that he was swinging around with swords may be a clue.

Anyways, I don't know poo poo, baby!

That part really stood out to me as a "doth protest to much" situation. "I'm not being controlled by my past shifters, your being controlled by past shifters!"

So to me, seems obvious that he is being controlled by past shifters. But then the question is who? Eren already was off before eating the warhammer, so thats probably out. So that leaves foundation titan and attack titan shifters.

Attack titan we only know two, his dad and the guy who gave it to his dad. His dad seemed to be controlled by erens future memories, so thats probably out. Perhaps the guy who gave the attack titan to his dad, that guy surely had enough reason to hate marley, but to wreck the entire world? Well so far its just marley that is wrecked anyway.

Theres also the foundation titan past shifters, aka the royal family. But theyve been under the vow of peace. Maybe one of them was truly pissed off about that and is now making their move? Erens weirdness seemed to have started at touching historia so could be a good fit.

Or maybe its a situation of the attack titan itself, it seems to have a thing where its always at revolts and seems to be all about being against slavery. Since they all came from ymir, maybe the attack titan is an aspect of ymir that desires freedom?

Anyway enough options, and really hard to tell now who exactly. It probably at least is someone we have seen before. It all coming from some past shifter we have never even seen is bad writing. I guess we will know in two chapters.

mightygerm
Jun 29, 2002





Captain_duck posted:

Anyway enough options, and really hard to tell now who exactly. It probably at least is someone we have seen before. It all coming from some past shifter we have never even seen is bad writing. I guess we will know in two chapters.

Imagine if they end the story with "worm-kun was controlling Eren's memories all along" and make it the real final boss of the series. The last-minute relevance of the hallucigenia makes me worry about this.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011




Pork Pro

I doubt Wormulon is controlling Eren. If it is thatís laaaaame

Captain_duck
Dec 3, 2005

I swear nice bushes!

The Spineworm probably is just what Zeke was talking about this last chapter. It just wants to reproduce. I doubt theres more to it then that and i doubt we will ever know.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Captain_duck posted:

That part really stood out to me as a "doth protest to much" situation. "I'm not being controlled by my past shifters, your being controlled by past shifters!"

So to me, seems obvious that he is being controlled by past shifters.

The point of the trip down Grisha's memory lane is that it's always been Eren. The fundamental difference of the Attack Titan, the Advancing Titan, is that while the rest are influenced by the past as bearers of the burden of history, the Attack Titan is influenced by the future. Not by previous bearers, but by those who were yet to come.

And that all converges on Eren: he was the answer (or the key to the answer) to Ymir's wish to be free.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


whalestory posted:

And what are people's reading on Eren's sitdown with Mikasa, Armin, and Gabi where he talks about Ackerman's being slaves and beating up Armin? Armin later argues that Eren made that Ackerman master/slave thing up, but Mikasa pinning Armin down seemed pretty convincing at the time... which also makes me wonder why Eren keeps insisting that he's not a slave and that he's free. That freedom doesn't seem to necessarily jive with is future actions, but I dunno.

Iím just surprised Armin got pissed enough to throw down. Maybe heís the one to eat Eren if itís not Falco. He is the narrator in the anime after all.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Iíd have thought that Ymir would have been on Erenís ďIím going to make sure things work out well for Historia no matter whatĒ plan and not be part of the ďhe needs to be stoppedĒ group. This seems like a weird change of character for her.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011




Pork Pro

I donít think thatís what happened

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



She saved Reiner from a Titan that was on his back so Iím not sure what else she could have been doing.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



Ethiser posted:

She saved Reiner from a Titan that was on his back so Iím not sure what else she could have been doing.

It's pretty unlikely that she even has any idea what Historia's situation and motivations are wrt the craziness happening. Though even if she is aware via paths, there's always a chance that a deeper dive (if the author ever talks about this) would reveal she thinks this is what Historia needs.

Buzzsaw Roomba
Feb 13, 2012

Christ, what an asshole.


The usual scanlation team just dropped their version of the new chapter.

Glad I waited. That was pretty great.

New Super Metis
Aug 1, 2014




I agree with an earlier poster that Historia being missing from the actual on-page story is a real shame, and I hope she gets a spotlight in the next two chapters. Otherwise it feels like she's just been reduced to a plot device or a mechanism to motivate Eren.

kidcoelacanth
Sep 23, 2009



this chapter was extremely anime and i loved it

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.


A princess primarily used as a plot device for the main character who pilots a mech in a story about how war is bad?

This was a gundam series all along.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




how long until we're allowed to acknowledge that if this is how it actually ends then the series has flipped all the way back around to jingoism

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

It means everything.


Bleck posted:

how long until we're allowed to acknowledge that if this is how it actually ends then the series has flipped all the way back around to jingoism

Given that pretty much every character other than Eren agrees that what Eren is doing is morally wrong, uh, hopefully a while because that take would be pretty stupid.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


Bleck posted:

how long until we're allowed to acknowledge that if this is how it actually ends then the series has flipped all the way back around to jingoism

Never? I can't even imagine how anyone would think that or somehow ignore everything each character has said/done to reach that conclusion. Your brain would literally have to stop working.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012






Yeah, the Armin and Zeke conversation works a lot better there, I think. It's definitely the kind of scene where the translation matters a lot.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep


That's much better translation than the leaks posted here before, thank you

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


Isayama is clearly a Cambria Sword fan

deep cuts

whalestory
Feb 9, 2004

hey ya'll!



Pillbug

lmao some of the art is still... fantastic :D

Only registered members can see post attachments!

ETURNA
Jul 3, 2006

Narayan


bees x1000 posted:

Isayama is clearly a Cambria Sword fan

deep cuts

Whoa, that reminds me of Taito's Darius. Gonna get it!

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.


Bleck posted:

how long until we're allowed to acknowledge that if this is how it actually ends then the series has flipped all the way back around to jingoism

I mean have you actually read any of this?

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


ETURNA posted:

Whoa, that reminds me of Taito's Darius. Gonna get it!

the dev says he was going more for BioHazard Battle

ETURNA
Jul 3, 2006

Narayan


bees x1000 posted:

the dev says he was going more for BioHazard Battle

I can see that. Haven't played it though.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




serious gaylord posted:

I mean have you actually read any of this?

I sure did just read the past forty pages of all of the military children banding together and using their military training to kill a guy with a nuke

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

It means everything.


Bleck posted:

I sure did just read the past forty pages of all of the military children banding together and using their military training to kill a guy with a nuke

Do you know what "jingoism" means, because it's not that, and in fact the opposite of what the group fighting against Eren are fighting for.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




something tells me that "the only thing that can prevent total annihilation is having a skilled team of military kids" is not the Anti-War message you think it is

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...


"... and so you see, antifascism is categorically no different from fascism!"

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


Bleck posted:

I sure did just read the past forty pages of all of the military children banding together and using their military training to kill a guy with a nuke

Are you being for real right now or...?

Like do you know what the word jingoism actually means? In case you don't here's a quick google search definition for you.

" extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy."

Now I want you to apply that to a group of people who are acting against what would arguably be in their countries best interest, trying to save everyone regardless of their nationality and you tell me when that starts applying to the above definition.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Asuron posted:

trying to save everyone

Bleck posted:

something tells me that "the only thing that can prevent total annihilation is having a skilled team of military kids" is not the Anti-War message you think it is

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

It means everything.


Bleck posted:

something tells me that "the only thing that can prevent total annihilation is having a skilled team of military kids" is not the Anti-War message you think it is

So is your issue with shonen having young characters, in general? Like I don't get it.

However that still doesn't answer the question of how in the world the anti-Yagerists banding together to defeat Eren is jingoistic

Eustace
Feb 26, 2009



still not jingoist or necessarily pro war

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Saagonsa posted:

So is your issue with shonen having young characters, in general? Like I don't get it.

here let me use as few words as possible:

military, bad
media where military good, bad

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

It means everything.


Bleck posted:

here let me use as few words as possible:

military, bad
media where military good, bad

Oh so it's just the same old "You can't make a truly anti-war movie" thing, which like, sure I guess if that's the stance you want to take. In that case though I don't know why you ever thought anything else about it.

Eustace
Feb 26, 2009


Alos the entire military command of both sides are dead and the last 2 members bonded over their common humanity before dying. I just dont see how you can interpret this as being pro war

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Okay, we can debate that, but you're using "nationalism" and "jingoism" in weird ways and that is the sticking point for a lot of the people in this conversation.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


Bleck posted:

here let me use as few words as possible:

military, bad
media where military good, bad

That doesn't make something jingoistic you understand that right?

I literally gave you the definition of what it was

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Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

I mean, if you want to criticize the pro-military stance AoT appears to be taking, why can't you just say "militarism?' "Militarism" would actually describe what you seem to be complaining about!

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