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mightygerm
Jun 29, 2002





Lamebot posted:

So one thing that sticks out and bothers me: How did Shadis get Grisha into the walls without anyone finding out? Every way he had to go back in was operated by the garrison. The only thing that comes close to explaining this is there's a general order to take in people found outside the walls and don't make news of it. Otherwise Grisha should have been detained by kenny & co.

Grisha was put in jail, a drunk Hannes and Shadis decide not to report it to the higher ups.

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whalestory
Feb 9, 2004

hey ya'll!



Pillbug

mightygerm posted:

They cut the part about Zeke's spinal fluid in the anime. I've seen a lot of anime-onlys think that Zeke only needs to scream to turn Eldians into Titans.

i don't think it was cut, it just hasn't been shown yet.

Also for other people, don't post clarifications in the anime-only thread! People tend to forget what is a spoiler and what isn't, and the anime may do things out of order from the manga (like Ymir's backstory). but I trust you mightygerm

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


What's the strongest evidence that Historia reciprocated Ymir's feelings? They spent a lot of time together but Historia never seemed to treat her any differently than she did anyone else. Even reading that last letter Historia's response is a tear and an oh you... Running after Ymir and being willing to sacrifice herself would be notable, but she does the same thing for Eren and at that point their only shown one on one interaction is a single conversation.

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Flesnolk posted:

Probably for subtlety’s sake, make her a little less cartoonishly greedy.

That's just the thing, i loved how unsubtle and cartoonish it was. Oh well :(

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Ah it's been a while since AoT made me laugh so hard:


https://i.imgur.com/M3Pqgaq.mp4
And a version w/o subtitles if you want:
https://i.imgur.com/PuSwmwI.mp4


I wish this site could embed mp4 within spoiler tags.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


bees x1000 posted:

What's the strongest evidence that Historia reciprocated Ymir's feelings? They spent a lot of time together but Historia never seemed to treat her any differently than she did anyone else. Even reading that last letter Historia's response is a tear and an oh you... Running after Ymir and being willing to sacrifice herself would be notable, but she does the same thing for Eren and at that point their only shown one on one interaction is a single conversation.

bwuhhh...?

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Eej posted:

bwuhhh...?

Whose memories are these?

(Seriously, though, Historia and Eren kinda knew each other for years, even if they never talked much, and then they spent the whole uprising arc in close proximity. Then after that, what we see suggests they spent a lot of time together whenever they had a chance.

If Historia and Ymir's relationship is similar to her and Eren, and I see little reason to doubt that, it was very much a two way street,)

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


That's reasonable.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Ymir was obviously very important to Historia but there's never any indication she reciprocated it romantically - to the contrary, it seems she never even realized that Ymir's affection was of that type until she was already gone.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Conspiratiorist posted:

Ymir was obviously very important to Historia but there's never any indication she reciprocated it romantically - to the contrary, it seems she never even realized that Ymir's affection was of that type until she was already gone.

I've seen suggestions that Isayama confirmed the relationship in interviews, but I haven't been able to confirm that one either way. What I have managed to confirm is that the VAs have confirmed it, and Historia's reaction to Ymir's letter ending with "my one regret is that I couldn't marry you" isn't "Oh, that's how you felt", but "Yep, that's Ymir alright."

Also, you know. You have their songs in the anime. "Call your name" and "Zero Eclipse" aren't anthems for a platonic friendship.

(Of course, looking at the early drafts, it's pretty interesting how the Historia and Eren relationship was almost set up all the way back in chapter 4. It suggest that, despite Isayama's extensive planning, that Ymir and Krista's romance arose out of the story as it was being written. No wonder Ymir was his favorite character for a while.)

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

It means everything.


Conspiratiorist posted:

Ymir was obviously very important to Historia but there's never any indication she reciprocated it romantically - to the contrary, it seems she never even realized that Ymir's affection was of that type until she was already gone.

Ymir said that she wanted to marry Historia in like her first scene on screen. Also Historia's little speech about being able to do anything and not being afraid when Ymir was with her is pretty obvious.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


chiasaur11 posted:

I've seen suggestions that Isayama confirmed the relationship in interviews, but I haven't been able to confirm that one either way.

It's broken telephone; during a 2014 German interview, anime producer George Wada was asked about the Ymir and Historia relationship, to which he replied "I'll leave that to your imagination", which in English got reported as a confirmative "it is what you think", which was then furthermore attributed to Isayama rather than Wada.

Pootybutt
Apr 5, 2011



chiasaur11 posted:

Whose memories are these?

(Seriously, though, Historia and Eren kinda knew each other for years, even if they never talked much, and then they spent the whole uprising arc in close proximity. Then after that, what we see suggests they spent a lot of time together whenever they had a chance.

If Historia and Ymir's relationship is similar to her and Eren, and I see little reason to doubt that, it was very much a two way street,)

The whole thought of ErenxHistoria flat out loving sucks and its the worst part of this whole stupidass manga and I hate it. Poor Ymir, man.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


She had to get out of the way so Eren could lay the pipe.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012



I've been meaning to reread the series since I got that Humble Bundle deal with most of the volumes, but I never got the sense that Eren and Historia had a thing so much as they were both resigned to whatever relationship they do have, for different reasons.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Mecca-Benghazi posted:

I've been meaning to reread the series since I got that Humble Bundle deal with most of the volumes, but I never got the sense that Eren and Historia had a thing so much as they were both resigned to whatever relationship they do have, for different reasons.

AoT doesn't really dwell on romance; it's even a running gag that the entire 104th calls Krista a goddess and/or wants to marry her, and only on the last few chapters of Ymir's time in the story does it land that hers were genuine.

Eren and Historia certainly bonded during the Coup arc, but if anything romantic developed (signs point to something being there, but jury's still out after all) it wouldn't have really happened until the largely offscreen timeskip. We do have some side materials set in the period indicating that Eren became a regular presence at the farm, and that Historia thought the world of him before even the disclosure of (and Eren's opposition to) the plan to have her inherit the Beast to control the Rumbling, but piecing together Eren's mindspace leading up to the Rumbling continues to be one of the mysteries of the series, and the exact nature of his relationship with Historia is part of it.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Feb 16, 2021

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


What are these side materials?

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

If kissing Historias hand broke Erenís brain sex would probably destroy him. Iím team farmer

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


bees x1000 posted:

What are these side materials?

https://sapewloth.tumblr.com/post/177371413898/shingeki-no-kyojin-smartpass-au-some-stories-of

It's one in the series of short stories penned by Isayama.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Eren can touch Historia without triggering flashbacks. There's the scene where she frees him from the chains in the cavern beneath the Reiss chapel and ends up holding onto him for dear life when Rod transforms, or Jean's comment about Eren and Historia spending time holding each other's hands without effect.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 16, 2021

Not Keyser Soze
Mar 7, 2007

Endless Celestial Sex

Historia can't have feelings for Ymir and also develop feelings for Eren years later, after all. Since bisexual people don't exist.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Pootybutt posted:

The whole thought of ErenxHistoria flat out loving sucks and its the worst part of this whole stupidass manga and I hate it. Poor Ymir, man.

Yeah I admit I have literally zero emotional investment in that pairing. It feels forced and lame.

HoneyBoy
Oct 12, 2012

get murked son

The last episode of the anime exists solely to point out that any relationship Historia has at this point is inherently "forced." To the point where the onlookers (MP guards, hell the readers even) doubt the legitimacy behind the story for her pregnancy.

But with what other people have mentioned about Eren/Historia being close since before this, possibly off-screen, it doesn't seem that farfetched that both of the genocide duo would grow closer via their shared resentment of both the world and their parents for saddling each of them with such heavy burdens. Maybe Historia really is the worst girl who ever lived.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Not Keyser Soze posted:

Historia can't have feelings for Ymir and also develop feelings for Eren years later, after all. Since bisexual people don't exist.

:agreed:

Pootybutt
Apr 5, 2011



Not Keyser Soze posted:

Historia can't have feelings for Ymir and also develop feelings for Eren years later, after all. Since bisexual people don't exist.

The context is disgusting even if she were explicitly bi.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

I'm not sure Eren and Historia have romantic feelings for each other; they could just have a strong platonic bond. This wouldn't necessarily disprove the "Eren as babydaddy" theory, either - it wouldn't be the first time two people who didn't love each other agreed to have a baby.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Ymir and Historia are about as gay as you can get without turning to the camera and saying "btw they're gay". Eren and Historia don't quite have that in the text but what is very apparent is that they have a very strong bond with one another, to the point that having a child to protect one another is not out of the question.

e: basically this

Pththya-lyi posted:

I'm not sure Eren and Historia have romantic feelings for each other; they could just have a strong platonic bond. This wouldn't necessarily disprove the "Eren as baby daddy" theory, either. It wouldn't be the first time two people who didn't love each other agreed to have a baby.

Saagonsa
Dec 29, 2012

It means everything.


The way the Ymir/Historia relationship ended kinda sucked yeah. One of the major problems I have with AoT

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Ymir made her choice, and it was to abandon Historia because she felt sorry for Reiner and Berthold - because that's the sort of selfless person she was at her core.

Eren chose Historia, the whole world be damned.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Conspiratiorist posted:

Ymir made her choice, and it was to abandon Historia because she felt sorry for Reiner and Berthold - because that's the sort of selfless person she was at her core.

Eren chose Historia, the whole world be damned.

I mean, she did the same for him first. (She also did the same for Ymir, but Ymir turned down the offer. Selfless to the end.)

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

Whoever wields the Jaw tends to turn into a self sacrificial blockhead. I worry for Falco

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008


Eej posted:

Ymir and Historia are about as gay as you can get without turning to the camera and saying "btw they're gay". Eren and Historia don't quite have that in the text but what is very apparent is that they have a very strong bond with one another, to the point that having a child to protect one another is not out of the question.

But she can just hook up with the farmer then for protection from being fed the Beast Titan. Eren is an unneeded middle man in that scenario if she needs to hook up with the farmer anyway to cover for Eren being the father.

yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Feb 16, 2021

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


^maybe technically true but if youíre going to have a baby, it makes much more sense to have it within a Ďstrong bondí. and the whole thing about finding someone to love within the walls, and the parallels with Grisha and Dina, etc.

that said Iím still only like 90% sure Eren is the father

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



The final chapter ends up being an episode of Maury Povich.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Much like I feel its odd that Historia has been largely absent, I sure don't remember her and Ymir having a relationship through the paths. There is clearly a lot of this story I've forgotten or lost as it's ramped up to genocide here at the end.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





bees x1000 posted:

^maybe technically true but if youíre going to have a baby, it makes much more sense to have it within a Ďstrong bondí. and the whole thing about finding someone to love within the walls, and the parallels with Grisha and Dina, etc.

that said Iím still only like 90% sure Eren is the father

I'm up to 95 with the last panel, myself.

People have noticed that the baby in the last panel has Eren's distinct eyebrows, and eyelashes that baby Eren didn't have.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


Gonna be funny if/when the last panel really is what everyone thought it was and we spent years second guessing anyways.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

I thought the twist would be it was Zeke holding the baby but I guess thatís out of the cards now lol. Only other swerve would be a beefed up Armin or Jean

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


So we think Eren is somehow going to be allowed to survive after killing hundreds of eldians and millions of non-eldians? Or the last panel is someone else holding the baby?

No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Feb 17, 2021

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Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008


At this point I half wonder if the final panel ends up being something else and "lol I changed my mind"

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