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Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



I canít remember, who is in charge back on Paradis? Were the Yeagerists still controlling everything last we saw?

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


aquaero posted:

Eh, I'm not saying it's perfect logic, just that I could see the narrative presenting it that way. Though that raises the question of just how much of the world is left alive. We were shown SnK's version of England and Japan being flattened, but that doesn't really make geographical sense if the colossal titans with Eren are only just reaching the fort on Marley. I wouldn't mind the world being destroyed with only Paradis and the survivors here left alive, though (and, I guess, Kiyomi & co).
Kind of defeats the purpose of the last 20 chapters if everyone is already dead...

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Elias_Maluco posted:

The titans will surely transform back to humans once the worm is killed

God I hope not. There are currently zero stakes in this fight since Eren let himself be beaten and it seems so likely the titans are going to be reverted. The poor Hallucigenia is the only one putting in the work and making the Alliance bleed for their victory. I hope its minor accomplishment of wiping out the suppporting cast remains even after its inevitable death just so that there is some sense of pathos (with the characters the readers are invested in).

I never thought we'd have one chapter left and I'd not have an idea about how it's all going to end. The story has definitely not gone in the direction I thought it would. I can't say I fully enjoyed what we got but it remains to be seen how it will look once it has all been tied together. However, based on how the final arc played out, I am skeptical of Isayama's ability to bring the story to a satisfying conclusion with just one chapter.

From a logical perspective, I know next chapter we'll get Eren's POV and closure for Historia's character, including the revelation that Eren is the father and the child will be named Ymir (and likely, the original Ymir's reincarnation). Anything else would be bad writing IMO. Why else sideline one of the best characters in the story and introduce this ambiguity about her and Eren's motivations unless there would be pay-off?

As for the ultimate outcome, I still maintain hope that Eren will complete the Rumbling and the ending will be AnR-lite: everywhere but Paradis is destroyed, Eren survives (death is too easy) and is haunted forever by what he has done.

A peace ending seems at odds with the themes of the story (and was dismissed as idealistic by Isayama earlier in the manga) and implies that Eren's genocide was justified. Someone said it best earlier in the thread: a partial Rumbling resulting in peace implicitly conveys that "genocide = bad, targeted genocide = good".

At least if the Rumbling is successful, the story becomes a cautionary tale of the dangers of dehumanization and systemic persecution - and neatly sidesteps any moral quandries by allowing the audience to categorically rebuke Eren's actions.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Mar 12, 2021

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Ethiser posted:

I canít remember, who is in charge back on Paradis? Were the Yeagerists still controlling everything last we saw?

The top brass is gone so yes, they became the de facto government.

But they're a small group, and with Floch & Eren dead I don't imagine they'd be able to keep a hold on power.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Does it really matter if they are or aren't? At this point they've accomplished their goal which was to enable Eren to Rumble. Feels like they've gotten what they wanted and wouldn't put up much more fight to anyone returning to the island.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Yea, basically.

Though what happens now will largely depend on Historia; the non-Jaegerist elements of the military and the citizenry are sure to rally behind her. Up in the air if she'll categorically disavow Eren's actions, but at the very least I'd expect her to call for fair treatment of non-Eldians, which does run counter to the more revanchist "ELDIA BANZAI!" approach of the Jaegerists under Floch.

mightygerm
Jun 29, 2002





Conspiratiorist posted:

Yea, basically.

Though what happens now will largely depend on Historia; the non-Jaegerist elements of the military and the citizenry are sure to rally behind her. Up in the air if she'll categorically disavow Eren's actions, but at the very least I'd expect her to call for fair treatment of non-Eldians, which does run counter to the more revanchist "ELDIA BANZAI!" approach of the Jaegerists under Floch.

Floch had an... interesting take on the subject. He was ready to accept the leftover volunteers as Eldians if they joined up, and just as quick to shoot them if they weren't.

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.


I mean we're assuming Isayama is actually going to tie all this stuff up. He could have just forgotten about Historia at this point.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



serious gaylord posted:

I mean we're assuming Isayama is actually going to tie all this stuff up. He could have just forgotten about Historia at this point.

I am pretty sure he did not forget about a character who has appeared in recent chapters. There's nothing saying she'll get any sort of satisfying resolution but she's not going to just not appear again.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

It's possible that because this is Eren's story, the narrative will end with him.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Eej posted:

This manga is gonna end on a spread of Mikasa alone on a beach holding Eren and Historia's child, Eren Jr.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


clearly the final panel is Jean holding his child with Pieck

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


serious gaylord posted:

I mean we're assuming Isayama is actually going to tie all this stuff up. He could have just forgotten about Historia at this point.

Historia is Isayama's favorite character.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Conspiratiorist posted:

Historia is Isayama's favorite character.

He's also said that about Jean, Reiner, and Ymir. It's not an unchanging north star.

That said, yeah. No way he had her sidelined for this long with no plan for a payout.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Reiner is Isayama's favorite character in a different sense.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

Conspiratiorist posted:

Reiner is Isayama's favorite character in a different sense.



holy poo poo nice. Reiner is my favorite character and Falco is close second .

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

aquaero posted:

I thought it was the worm that called the pure titans to protect itself. I don't think it has a will as such beyond survival, just like what Zeke spoke about in the previous chapter. So it wasn't Eren or Ymir that titanised the Eldians, but the worm on its own, so that Reiner wouldn't be able to kill it (easily, anyway).

By the by, the picture that the author included in Zeke's exposition was of a Burgess Shale fauna and the spinal column looking critter featured is called Hallucigenia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucigenia

:themoreyouknow:

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


FYI Japan was hit with a smallish (4.7) earthquake and this week's broadcast was interrupted. The episode's arrival on streaming services will be delayed, no word on how long.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


Scenes have leaked on youtube as 19 minutes aired before it got interrupted.

We got the Levi Vs Zeke this week and it was pretty fantastic.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Asuron posted:

Scenes have leaked on youtube as 19 minutes aired before it got interrupted.

We got the Levi Vs Zeke this week and it was pretty fantastic.

19 minutes... that's almost all the episode, once you remove the ending part. They only not aired the final 2 minutes, I guess.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Grisha really is the worst father. He thrust so much responsibility onto Zeke, did it again when he gave Eren the Attack Titan (despite knowing what the result would be...?), and seemingly was complicit in Zeke's death in Chapter 137, and possibly Eren's in Chapter 138.

Sure, he felt bad about his actions later - but still, gently caress him. In a series full of horrible people who commit all manner of atrocities, Grisha stands out as somehow worse because there's something visceral and familiar about him. He's like a sports dad; an abusive parent who sees his children as tools to live vicariously through and do the things he couldn't (or refuses to).

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





In It For The Tank posted:

Grisha really is the worst father. He thrust so much responsibility onto Zeke, did it again when he gave Eren the Attack Titan (despite knowing what the result would be...?), and seemingly was complicit in Zeke's death in Chapter 137, and possibly Eren's in Chapter 138.

Sure, he felt bad about his actions later - but still, gently caress him. In a series full of horrible people who commit all manner of atrocities, Grisha stands out as somehow worse because there's something visceral and familiar about him. He's like a sports dad; an abusive parent who sees his children as tools to live vicariously through and do the things he couldn't (or refuses to).

Grisha was a horrible dad to Zeke, but he spent most of Eren's life trying to make up for it by being a good dad, keeping his kid from being drawn into anything.

It's just that Eren is... Eren. Killed two men at nine years old, then he traveled back in time to force his dad to murder the royal family, and then there was whatever he did to make Grisha give him the Attack Titan.

Zeke turned out badly because of his dad. But Eren? Eren's always been like this, since the day he was born.

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !

does Ksavers backstory make any sense at all?
removed his armband long enough to make a life outside Liberio, in presumably Titan research, somehow to the point where even after his enormous lie is exposed he gets selected for the Beast Titan, with no mention of the vigorous selection process and at an indeterminate age totally inconsistent with the child soldier aspect?
wtf isayama

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Sjs00 posted:

does Ksavers backstory make any sense at all?
removed his armband long enough to make a life outside Liberio, in presumably Titan research, somehow to the point where even after his enormous lie is exposed he gets selected for the Beast Titan, with no mention of the vigorous selection process and at an indeterminate age totally inconsistent with the child soldier aspect?
wtf isayama

It's only the new generation that's child soldiers. Marley was previously going with older Warriors, so that a Shifter would be at prime military utility for the whole term. Going younger was (presumably) partially a response to the restorationist movements, making the top brass more obsessed with loyalty than utility.

It's likely he got the Beast (presumably considered the least combat capable Titan) as part of a deal to reveal his methods, ensuring nobody else would be able to use the loopholes after. As a bonus, being a shifter would let him do much more effective Titan research, benefitting Marley in ways that no-one else could.

Fat and Useless
Sep 3, 2011

Not Thin and Useful






Very cute Mappa.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


C'mon next week I need to know when part 2 is due

also not sure if they can get to Marley's attack with only one episode left, maybe it'll end with Eren pressing his head against Pieck's gun

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


In It For The Tank posted:

Grisha really is the worst father. He thrust so much responsibility onto Zeke, did it again when he gave Eren the Attack Titan (despite knowing what the result would be...?), and seemingly was complicit in Zeke's death in Chapter 137, and possibly Eren's in Chapter 138.

Sure, he felt bad about his actions later - but still, gently caress him. In a series full of horrible people who commit all manner of atrocities, Grisha stands out as somehow worse because there's something visceral and familiar about him. He's like a sports dad; an abusive parent who sees his children as tools to live vicariously through and do the things he couldn't (or refuses to).

I donít blame Grisha at all for what happened with Eren, given that it seems he was manipulated into it and had no control.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



At a certain point is Eren even in control of his actions? Heís in a circular loop of his his future self influencing his past self to become his future self to influence his past self.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Ethiser posted:

At a certain point is Eren even in control of his actions?

100%

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


The story becomes less interesting if Eren, Grisha or any of the other major players can be written off as being controlled, IMO. Sure Eren was pushing but I believe the choices were still Grisha's.

Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011



You know the only chapter of this manga I ever read was the last one, I just read a bunch of spoilers one day when I was curious about the violent big naked people comic. Only problem was I read them just as Eren decided to go full global extinction. So that was a bit of a swerve at the end of his article. That being said there's something sorta perversely exciting reading the speculation in the show thread considering where that's going. Reminds me having been a ASoIaF book reader prior to the ending of the first season, and before GoT got crappy.

That being said something that made me glad I never got into this on a serial basis was the non-linear time stuff. I hate time travel in a work of fiction, especially if it creates a causal loop, like future Eren mind controlling past Grisha. Just reminds me of Greek mythological and Christian theological predestination crap more than anything. Self-fulfilling prophecies, bah! I'm really curious to see if the author sticks the landing at all, or if he just kills everyone off and prints NATIONALISM IS BAD EXCEPT FOR MY VAGUELY RIGHT-WING VIEWS. Sort of reminds me of James Ellroy, who wrote novels like L.A. Confidential and is a horrible straw-nihilist about humanity, but also really illiberal and authoritarian.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



bees x1000 posted:

The story becomes less interesting if Eren, Grisha or any of the other major players can be written off as being controlled, IMO. Sure Eren was pushing but I believe the choices were still Grisha's.

It kind of works for me with Eren specifically since it means that he could never be free no matter how hard he struggled or what he did because he was his own jailer the whole time, but the story hasnít even really gone down a path to examine that so in the end it probably doesnít matter.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011




c. 'The great Leader', 1895, by Paul Cťzanne.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012



Ethiser posted:

At a certain point is Eren even in control of his actions? Heís in a circular loop of his his future self influencing his past self to become his future self to influence his past self.

He's in control. Attack Titan gave him the vision of the future, but ultimately he was the one who decided to pursue it.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Man I... really wish they didn't go with rap music for that one part. Like, it even had the operatic in the background, they could've just... not had the rapper and that music would've fit much better.

Y
Sep 29, 2004

it's time to step up

Ethiser posted:

At a certain point is Eren even in control of his actions? Heís in a circular loop of his his future self influencing his past self to become his future self to influence his past self.

He shouldn't be. It'd be like blaming Quaid for Hauser's choices in Total Recall. Eren before and after connecting to the shared memory vault are very literally different people, unless personhood is defined by having the same body and not the mind inside it.

None of the characters in the story appear to realize this, despite the fact that Eren suggests this exact thing when he tells Armin he's been polluted by Bertholdt's memories. Right before he says this to Armin, he makes sure to specify he is not being coerced and is doing everything of his own free will. Take that as you will.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Y posted:

He shouldn't be. It'd be like blaming Quaid for Hauser's choices in Total Recall. Eren before and after connecting to the shared memory vault are very literally different people, unless personhood is defined by having the same body and not the mind inside it.

None of the characters in the story appear to realize this, despite the fact that Eren suggests this exact thing when he tells Armin he's been polluted by Bertholdt's memories. Right before he says this to Armin, he makes sure to specify he is not being coerced and is doing everything of his own free will. Take that as you will.

Except Eren's had scenes where he basically went "I've seen the future, and given what's lost and what's gained, I would do this monstrous thing of my own free will. This sucks."

It's like saying someone stops being the same person if they get stock tips. Eren's actions are extreme, but his internal motives (at least, what we've seen of them) are a logical continuation of what he's been doing before.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


His mind wasn't overwritten by his future memories, rather, he was shown scenes of events that would come to pass.

And unlike people potentially being influenced by inherited past memories, he's fully aware this is what's going on, and is in complete understanding that he has the agency to at any point reject that future.

What fucks with him is being unable to find an alternative no matter how much he agonized about it, immediately intuiting deep down that unleashing the Rumbling was an atrocity fully under his capacity to commit, and watching each scene he foresaw play itself out every step of the way - because they were all consequences of Eren Jaeger staying true to himself.

Ryaomon
Mar 19, 2007

Yare yare daze...

DaveKap posted:

Man I... really wish they didn't go with rap music for that one part. Like, it even had the operatic in the background, they could've just... not had the rapper and that music would've fit much better.

Nah it was cool as hell

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JahRoo
Oct 22, 2010




I forget, do they ever explain what the Ackerman powers are other than "titan science experiments"? Also has that been revealed in the anime?

I remember a scene in the manga early in the Marley arc where Zeke or Colt remarks about their powers being titan related but I don't think that made it into the show?

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