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Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

AnonSpore posted:

Ah, Kyojin's sizable fujoshi fanbase shows its power.
Why would they all vote for Rivaille?

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Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Sindai posted:

Why would they all vote for Rivaille?

If you have to ask this question, you don't understand the archetypical lady anime fan very well.

7c Nickel
Apr 27, 2008


Rechecking the section I mentioned earlier, she doesn't just shatter the floorboards with her lunge. She also grips the knife so hard that it frays the wooden handle.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


How in the world is Christa so popular? Before the last 10 chapters or so she barely got any screen-time(page-time?)

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

RatHat posted:

How in the world is Christa so popular? Before the last 10 chapters or so she barely got any screen-time(page-time?)

Because she's a goddess.

(just marry me already)

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


RatHat posted:

How in the world is Christa so popular? Before the last 10 chapters or so she barely got any screen-time(page-time?)

Holy crap. Yah definitely seeing some of Eren's father's handy work here.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


Actually, what happened to Eren between then and chapter one? He was a stone cold killer taking out dudes like it was nothing while inspiring Mikasa to super human levels, and then the next time we see him he can't even handle three kid bullies.

StrifeHira
Nov 7, 2012

I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.

So upon suggestion from my gf, I went and gave this a try last night.

Just caught up today and holy poo poo, ": the Manga" is pretty drat apt. I feel kinda glad that I caught on to the twist with Annie before it was fully revealed, in a "aha! I was paying attention to that!" kinda way, but drat do the swerves keep coming. More recent ones kinda felt really out of left field though.

Also gotta say, Hanji's kinda one of my favorite characters at the moment, at least of the "regular" humans since I'm seriously starting to doubt Mikasa's "normal" at this point.

usenet celeb 1992
Jun 1, 2000

he thought quoting borges would make him popular


Gyges posted:

Actually, what happened to Eren between then and chapter one? He was a stone cold killer taking out dudes like it was nothing while inspiring Mikasa to super human levels, and then the next time we see him he can't even handle three kid bullies.

Unless I misread, his father's message to him indicates he'd been tinkering with Eren's memory somehow, so an explanation will probably eventually be forthcoming.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


Ok, keep in mind that I'm just current with chapter 31 onward (I stopped reading for awhile) but Annie, Eren, Bertholdt and Reiner all have pale eyes. Clue for human-titans? Just want to throw that out there, any credence for it?

Also if it is indicative of human titans then reveille is one as well.

Or it is a way of showing off shellshocked people.

TTBF
Sep 14, 2005





Does Eren have the pale eyes before the titan injection?

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


Donkringel posted:

Ok, keep in mind that I'm just current with chapter 31 onward (I stopped reading for awhile) but Annie, Eren, Bertholdt and Reiner all have pale eyes. Clue for human-titans? Just want to throw that out there, any credence for it?

Also if it is indicative of human titans then reveille is one as well.

Or it is a way of showing off shellshocked people.

It's a way of showing who has seen the battlefield, yeah.

EDIT: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/89449/shingeki-no-kyojin_v4_ch15_by_gantz-waitingroom/10

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib

I said it originally, the guys art can be real janky, but its gotten better and most importantly from the very beginning the artist has had a very keen ability to portray motion/action. That was probably his strength in the beginning, and he has only improved on it.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Mary Annette posted:

Me too, but also glad to see Armin relatively low. This series is pretty good on subverting stereotypes, but Armin still hasn't completely shed his 'bookish, effeminate sidekick' baggage yet.

I'm going to disagree with you on Armin. He's definitely a bookish, effeminate sidekick, but his ideas are clever and logically sound. On top of that you can follow his line of thinking, and see exactly how he'd come to his conclusions from the evidence that's been provided.

This may reflects more on Hajime the author than Armin the character, but either way it's refreshing.

Gyges posted:

Actually, what happened to Eren between then and chapter one? He was a stone cold killer taking out dudes like it was nothing while inspiring Mikasa to super human levels, and then the next time we see him he can't even handle three kid bullies.

Mikasa can be very measured and deliberate with her strength, but Eren hasn't displayed such self control. He might not be able to fight without complete commitment. He's a capable killer, but a poor fighter.

Or rather, he was a poor fighter back then.

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Gyges posted:

Actually, what happened to Eren between then and chapter one? He was a stone cold killer taking out dudes like it was nothing while inspiring Mikasa to super human levels, and then the next time we see him he can't even handle three kid bullies.

That's just Eren's character, I think: he acted to save Mikasa because she was in danger if he didn't, and didn't hold back. With bullies well, he was more struggling with shame than anything.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


Wasn't it implied that Eren and Mikasa killing the kidnappers was something two normal kids would just not be able to do? And not exclusively in a psychological sense. The impression I got was that whatever Eren's dad was doing to them had made them far more dangerous than normal kids.

Pensive
Oct 31, 2012


You know thinking back, Eren still managed to place 5th among the trainees, despite one of the only things he was exceptionally good at being hand to combat. Something that is not measured when deciding the rankings.

Now this could just be what it appears to be. Eren managed to succeed through sheer determination, even in-spite of his apparent lack of natural talent. But given this series reputation for foreshadowing, and love of subverting shonen tropes an clichés ...

Now look at who's above him:
Annie
Bertholdt
Reiner
Mikasa

As far as we know so far only one of the top five is a baseline human.

And then there's stuff like Eren managing to stay upright for a short time even though his Full-Body-Belt was sabotaged.

Am I just making something out of nothing and over analysing things with meta knowledge?
I mean I suppose that you could take him only reaching 5th place is a subversion in and of itself.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Pensive posted:

Now look at who's above him:
Annie
Bertholdt
Reiner
Mikasa

As far as we know so far only one of the top five is a baseline human.
I maintain that Mikasa has to be some kind of anti-Titan human weapon, or descendant of one, if not an unknowing Titan herself. She's too overpowered for it not to be a plot point, and too much of a natural for it to be attributed solely to extreme and fine control over her own abilities.

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Hodgepodge posted:

Wasn't it implied that Eren and Mikasa killing the kidnappers was something two normal kids would just not be able to do? And not exclusively in a psychological sense. The impression I got was that whatever Eren's dad was doing to them had made them far more dangerous than normal kids.

I think it's kind of daft to approach literally every bit of their characterization from the standpoint of "oh they're mutants". That leads down the NANOMACHINES path of bad speculation.

I think it's more hey they're badass kids, that's basically it! Mikasa isn't really supernaturally competent, she's just competent. Isn't that enough? Does she have to be some kind of Mystery Asian Weapon? The whole thing with her freaking out was her determination just making her go into Kill Mode and just kill a guy. Basically it.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


I really hope that Mikasa is just Batman to Eren's Viking Necronomicon Apache Chief. I just really like the idea that in this world of soul crushing poo poo, true humanity still has a fighting chance and is actually pretty good.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Zorak posted:

I think it's kind of daft to approach literally every bit of their characterization from the standpoint of "oh they're mutants". That leads down the NANOMACHINES path of bad speculation.

I think it's more hey they're badass kids, that's basically it! Mikasa isn't really supernaturally competent, she's just competent. Isn't that enough? Does she have to be some kind of Mystery Asian Weapon? The whole thing with her freaking out was her determination just making her go into Kill Mode and just kill a guy. Basically it.

She got the military to hesitate to blow a Titan (Eren) to smithereens during a Titan attack, because they said she was 100x the value of an average soldier. I'd say the 100x is enough, but getting them to hesitate is a pretty big deal too.

She's unnaturally competent. The manga goes out of its way to make her #1 and have a murky family origin and involvement with Eren's dad. It really does scream foreshadowing of some sort of conferred advantage.

Thoren
May 28, 2008


I hope Mikasa is just a really skilled normal human. Isn't she more or less just on the same level as Reville?

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006


Watching the anime, Mikasa tosses Eren around like a rag doll when they were kids. Hard to argue she hasn't been experimented on.

Excelsiortothemax fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 20, 2013

BadMedic
Jul 22, 2007

I've never actually seen him heal anybody.

Pillbug

Plot twist: Mikasa is in titan form right now, and in the back of her neck is a Micro-Mikasa.

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


Thoren posted:

I hope Mikasa is just a really skilled normal human. Isn't she more or less just on the same level as Reville?

Yes. However, on this page, it says that Petra has 58 titan kills (10 solo, 48 in a team), Auruo has 48 kills (39 solo, 9 in a team), Erd has 46 kills (14 solo, 32 in a team) and Gunter has 47 kills (7 solo, 40 in a team). It follows that Rivaille has an even higher kill count than any of his subordinates.

So this means that Mikasa, a newbie fresh out of training, is on the same level as Rivaille, a veteran soldier with tons of actual battle experience under his belt.


EDIT: Took the fan-artists long enough to come up with Shingeki no Touhou:

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

She got the military to hesitate to blow a Titan (Eren) to smithereens during a Titan attack, because they said she was 100x the value of an average soldier. I'd say the 100x is enough, but getting them to hesitate is a pretty big deal too.

hy·per·bo·le
[hahy-pur-buh-lee]
noun
an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

To draw a comparison from another fictional work, just because Rambo is absurdly competent at what he does, it doesn't mean the dude is supposed to be some kind of Magical Mystery Man. Dude just is good at killing folks.

Mikasa isn't so far gone from everyone else that she's supernatural. I mean poo poo, she has failed at what she's tried to do quite a lot!

There is literally nothing in the work stating or leading in this direction, at least yet, beyond her being Asian and very competent. Is a woman being competent sign that she's a freak? Do we want to go along that line of thought? Really?

McDragon
Sep 11, 2007



I just assume some people are better at killing giant hungry nudists than others.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012



Yeah, I had always seen her as just a natural badass. The narrative has always treated her like that. Besides, as an Asian woman, I like seeing cool women of color.

Thoren
May 28, 2008


Ackerman is a European name.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012



I thought her mom was the last "Oriental" implying Mikasa was half Asian? Mikasa could be Spanish for the comedy option, I guess.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


Maybe she took her name from her dad.

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


I am guessing her last name is from her dad, yes.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


Out of curiosity, is the Anime still on pace to appear to kill the main protagonist in episode 4, or are they doing less than one chapter per episode?

Pensive
Oct 31, 2012


Gyges posted:

Out of curiosity, is the Anime still on pace to appear to kill the main protagonist in episode 4, or are they doing less than one chapter per episode?

With the current pacing it looks like episode 4 will end with the graduation/2nd colossus attack and episode 5 will have the delicious protagonist munching.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Zorak posted:

To draw a comparison from another fictional work, just because Rambo is absurdly competent at what he does, it doesn't mean the dude is supposed to be some kind of Magical Mystery Man. Dude just is good at killing folks.

Mikasa isn't so far gone from everyone else that she's supernatural. I mean poo poo, she has failed at what she's tried to do quite a lot!
There's more to her than meets the eye and when the manga explains what that is, I'll be proven right.

The explanation will obviously have to make sense within the framework of the story, but given that there are intelligent outsiders of questionable humanity embedded within the society, that the main character has questionable humanity himself having to do with his dad's meddling, that she is the descendant from those explicitly from far outside the walls, that their "tribe" had markings of some sort of identification number, and that Eren's dad was her doctor and probably meddled with her too, there's too much possibility. If she's not a Titan - and I think it's entirely possible she's not - she's augmented in some other way. For sure.

Zorak posted:

There is literally nothing in the work stating or leading in this direction, at least yet, beyond her being Asian and very competent. Is a woman being competent sign that she's a freak? Do we want to go along that line of thought? Really?
Whoa there, geez. Nobody was going down that line of thought but you. Where the heck did that line of thinking come from? If you had a ruthlessly effective female character who you suspected to be a terminator robot, suspecting that she's ruthlessly effective because she's female, or that she's evaluated by a different standard, is the last thing that would come to mind. Being a terminator robot would be kind of up there, along with possibly something very different but along similar lines, especially if it were in the Terminator universe.

Seriously, though. The series practically goes out of its way to not make an issue out of gender for the Scouting Legion (or Recon Corps, whichever name you prefer). Unless my memory is failing me, compared to other series, it's conspicuously absent. Why would you bring it up?

Y
Sep 29, 2004

it's time to step up

It's not like the floorboard thing is some passing moment either. We see her grab the knife hard enough to break the handle, then launch herself off the floor hard enough to shatter it, and then it cuts back to the shattered floor as we end scene. This is way different than, for example, her tossing Eren around like a ragdoll with one hand, which you can write off as a genre convention or something (although as this isn't a series where people have superpowers for comedic purposes it does come off as suspicious in context).

People are reading into the moment because the series is full of foreshadowing both overt and subtle, not because Mikasa is a woman or Asian. People weren't being misogynist by bringing up the Annie-as-Female-Titan theory, either.

Y fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Apr 20, 2013

Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Why would you bring it up?

Because this is going along the "DEVIL FRUIT ARE NANOMACHINES" line of speculation which is inherently awful and I am trying to get you to understand that it is impossible to prove or disprove at best and comes across borderline offensive at worse when you're basically trying to argue away why a character is competent rather than it just being a character trait.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008


Zorak posted:

Because this is going along the "DEVIL FRUIT ARE NANOMACHINES" line of speculation which is inherently awful and I am trying to get you to understand that it is impossible to prove or disprove at best and comes across borderline offensive at worse when you're basically trying to argue away why a character is competent rather than it just being a character trait.
I haven't followed One Piece for many years, which is what I assume you're referencing with "Devil Fruit", but nanomachines sounds like a non-sequitur and obviously unreasonable. There's thin evidence that Mikasa is anything but a normal human, but thin evidence is not magical hand-waving. Now clearly, Eren's dad did something to him which influenced him in some important way relating to his titanhood.

Speculation that an adopted sibling and main character, with some vague or questionable circumstances, might be somehow special, is neither a non-sequitur nor totally unreasonable. I don't think anyone's arguing that the evidence is unambiguous, but the series has a habit of foreshadowing without giving things away. It's not about arguing that she wouldn't be competent without being special, but arguing that her being special is supported by her extreme competence, among other things. Those are not logically equivalent things - I agree you should be offended by the implication that she wouldn't be competent if she weren't special but that point is definitely and explicitly not being made.

In summary:
  • Not baseless or nonsensical speculation like "nanomachines"
  • Not arguing that ¬competent -> ¬special, or competent -> special (EDIT: or even special -> competent); arguing that special & other traits -> competent. Those other traits i.e. she's just competent independent of her other traits don't mean nothing's odd about her.
  • Not arguing that the text gives it away before it's actually addressed
  • Yes, it's speculation, but there's a reason for it
  • Yes, it can't be proven or disproven, it's speculation about possible foreshadowing in a series with plenty of foreshadowing
  • This line of reasoning doesn't reach outside the universe, it remains within the bounds of possibilities implied by the source material
I don't think this speculation is inherently awful or deserves to be shut down; however, the point has been made and the references to the manga provided, so there's not much else to say I suppose.

Doctor w-rw-rw- fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Apr 20, 2013

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Has Mikasa ever been cut? It's been a while since I read the whole manga, so I don't recall.

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Vincent Valentine
Feb 28, 2006

Murdertime



Captain Invictus posted:

Has Mikasa ever been cut?

To be fair, regardless of who they are, nobody is ever really "cut" in this manga. They are generally horrifically maimed which leads into one of the following two things:

1) They are going to die very soon
2) They turn into a titan.

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