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thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

QuarkMartial posted:

It should also be noted that the ABCs of Reloading mentions that primer flattening or cratering may actually be somewhat normal if the primer is known to be on the soft side. However, if cratering/flattening occurs and the case is also doing something else, like flowing into the extractor groove, then you're getting pressure signs / approaching maximum loads.

E: And I totally missed you mentioning flowing into the extractor groove

I actually started reading through that very publication last night. The Lyman book and also the Nosler book (I think) don't care to mention that "accompanied by other factors" bit.

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Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


I'm a simpleton so I usually just back off when I see slight primer cratering and/or flattening (cratering is easier to discern), but people who know more than me recommend case head expansion as a good indicator. Mic that poo poo. You just need a repeatable measuring point.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

My CCIs flatten on anything over like 30k PSI. They crater even at min loads in my Beretta. As long as my brass isn't making GBS threads itself I don't have too many reliable indicators

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

thermobollocks posted:

I actually started reading through that very publication last night. The Lyman book and also the Nosler book (I think) don't care to mention that "accompanied by other factors" bit.

There's an example in the book that I'm thinking of. It has 3 cases side by side. The middle one is a normal fired case, the one on the right is a soft primer, and the one on the left is a max load that has signs of flowing into the extractor. I'm on a phone, otherwise I'd give you the page number.

Dirk Diggler
Sep 28, 2001

"Jack says you've got a great big cock."


QuarkMartial posted:

There's an example in the book that I'm thinking of. It has 3 cases side by side. The middle one is a normal fired case, the one on the right is a soft primer, and the one on the left is a max load that has signs of flowing into the extractor. I'm on a phone, otherwise I'd give you the page number.

Page 36 if you have the 8th edition!

I'll take this opportunity to ask what people are using or recommending for powders for 223/5.56 and 30 carbine. Also, I bought some plated bullets for 30 carbine. The rule of thumb for plated is to keep them on the low end of the recommended jacketed loads, right?

Mishra
Dec 12, 2007



So I've got everything I need to get started except actual stuff to make ammo. Can you guys recommend a good place to order bullets/cases/powder? I'm starting off in .40 S&W.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



I have an old model Ruger Vaquero in 357 magnum and working up some max. loads seems like the thing to do. I am pretty well married to H110 for powder and a 158 grain bullet weight. The bullet is where I could use some help.

This is not going to be a load for any serious use, so doe anyone have a preferred 158 grain lead bullet for hot 357 loads that is somewhat inexpensive?

In exchange, have a link to a shellholder size chart. That I just had to use to find out what one I need for my spiffy new 357 dies.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/shellholders.asp

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Mishra posted:

So I've got everything I need to get started except actual stuff to make ammo. Can you guys recommend a good place to order bullets/cases/powder? I'm starting off in .40 S&W.
I haven't tried them yet but Montana Golden has great prices for jacketed bullets in quantity. If price is no concern Midway is popular for brand names.

Cases: It seems to me to be most cost effective to buy new loaded brass cartridges, fire them and start from there. Why pay almost the same amount for just virgin brass if you're shooting a pistol caliber? This is assuming you're not shooting for super precision or whatever. Otherwise, Midway and Natchez carry lots of cases.

Powder and primers: Buy local unless you are buying enough to make the hazmat shipping fee worth it.

A FUCKIN CANARY!!
Nov 9, 2005




thermobollocks posted:

I bell enough that the bullet sits straight and seating it doesn't shave off any lead, and I don't bother crimping.

As someone who is still only rolling around the idea of getting into reloading and has a .38 lined up as the most likely next purchase, isn't seating and crimping done by same die? Or is it possible to adjust a seating die such that it just pushes in the bullet without touching the brass?

Also, will hazmat fees on powder make reloading not worth the trouble? I can barely find Pyrodex RS locally, much less shop around for a preferred kind of smokeless.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Yes, the die body itself acts as a crimper and there is a seater plug adjusted by a thumb screw in the die. If you don't want to crimp, you seat the die so it does not touch the brass and adjust the seater plug to the depth you want.

As far as hazmat shipping, it really comes down to quantity. If you are saving up for a few pounds of powder and a few thousand primers in an order, the shipping fee gets diluted in the size of the order. A pound of powder two here and there is where you should be buying from a B&M.

Edit: I found the maximum load for my LCP. 3.3 grains of Unique under a 95 grain MBC LRN in starline brass with CCI 500 small pistol primers. 3.4 grains started to flatten the primers. I'm loading enough calibers at this point that I really should get a chrono. I'm curious how fast this load is moving.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 11, 2012

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

I roll cast for 158gr + H110. Accuracy's fine.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Butch Cassidy posted:

I have an old model Ruger Vaquero in 357 magnum and working up some max. loads seems like the thing to do. I am pretty well married to H110 for powder and a 158 grain bullet weight. The bullet is where I could use some help.

This is not going to be a load for any serious use, so doe anyone have a preferred 158 grain lead bullet for hot 357 loads that is somewhat inexpensive?

In exchange, have a link to a shellholder size chart. That I just had to use to find out what one I need for my spiffy new 357 dies.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/shellholders.asp

Do you care about cleaning out leading?

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Not in the Vaquero.

Edit: I loaded 50 rounds of 380 ACP using my Lee perfect powder measure. I've pretty well settled on 2.8 grains of Unique for my plinking charge and set the measure to throw on the light end of the charge. In other words, I am about to be disappointed with my results and go buy a chargemaster.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jan 12, 2012

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.

Mishra posted:

So I've got everything I need to get started except actual stuff to make ammo. Can you guys recommend a good place to order bullets/cases/powder? I'm starting off in .40 S&W.

Jacketed bullets: Precision Delta
Lead bullets: Missouri Bullet Co, whatever other bullet caster is local to you
Moly bullets: Bayou bullets, bear creek, black bullets international

powder/primers: buy locally. Ordering online is stupid unless you buy in large enough quantities to make hazmat shipping worth it. Your local USPSA shooters might be running a group buy in Titegroup or something so check your local gun boards. If you live within reasonable driving distance of Tulsa, OK, Powder Valley has the best prices on primers and powder anywhere and they're always at the Wananmacher gun shows; they will bring your order with them so you can pick it up and not pay shipping at all.

cases: Don't buy new brass. oncefiredbrass.net or your local brass vultures. Be aware that used 40 brass is sometimes Glocked so you might need to either weed those cases out or buy that special Redding die (just going by what I've heard, I don't reload 40)

poopgiggle fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jan 12, 2012

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Butch Cassidy posted:

Not in the Vaquero.

Edit: I loaded 50 rounds of 380 ACP using my Lee perfect powder measure. I've pretty well settled on 2.8 grains of Unique for my plinking charge and set the measure to throw on the light end of the charge. In other words, I am about to be disappointed with my results and go buy a chargemaster.

How does your measure like Unique? Any binding/leaking? For something as small as .380, I'd want to be very sure from throw to throw.

Which is why I bought a Chargemaster

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


Today's first-time reloading boo boos:
* Decapping a live primer (thankfully didn't set it off)
* Didn't set the first station spring arm properly and gouged a case rim cause the case wasn't in the resizing die correctly
* something hung up the primer feeding on my 550 and I loaded about 3 rounds without primers in them

emathey
May 18, 2008


It sucks when they end up with no primers because the powder will leak out the flash hole :<.

I QC 100% of my finished products, it's worth the time and it's a lot easier to pull/reload later than to buy yourself a new set of hands or a face or a gun.

Mishra
Dec 12, 2007



Perhaps this is better in the Milsurp thread but my Garand flings brass way into the lanes at the range and I can't collect it. Of 24 rounds I fired off I got back 1 case. Any solutions you guys can recommend?

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

kuffs posted:

Today's first-time reloading boo boos:
* Decapping a live primer (thankfully didn't set it off)

Put on eyes and ears and you'll be all right.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



thermobollocks posted:

How does your measure like Unique? Any binding/leaking? For something as small as .380, I'd want to be very sure from throw to throw.

It is not terribly consistent. I adjusted it to throw at my target load at the high end and a bit lighter on the low end. After weighing about 20 throws, I started loading and weighing every fifth charge. I probably won't get to test the ammo until the weekend.

Edit: Does anyone have a link to the old reloading thread? I am trying to dig it up to check something that was in it, but my skills with archives suck.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jan 13, 2012

Pursus
Nov 27, 2007

Hook on!


Butch Cassidy posted:

It is not terribly consistent. I adjusted it to throw at my target load at the high end and a bit lighter on the low end. After weighing about 20 throws, I started loading and weighing every fifth charge. I probably won't get to test the ammo until the weekend.

Edit: Does anyone have a link to the old reloading thread? I am trying to dig it up to check something that was in it, but my skills with archives suck.

The last two threads:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=2868499
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=2373270

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Thanks. And I just noticed the links in the first line of the OP. Whoops.

Edit to add: Would IMR 4895 be worth trying out as a powder in my 30-30 (Winchester 94) with a 170 grain bullet, or should I stick to IMR 3031? The 3031 has been most accurate (impressively so) with a minimum load and I have been wondering if 4895 would group better with a heavier load than the 3031.

I also want to try out IMR 3031 for my 303, but have not had much luck finding verified load data using a 174 grain bullet. Does anyone have a source?

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jan 15, 2012

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Double-Post for important-to-me question:

What would happen if I filled a 30-30 case with Trail Boss under a 170 grain JFN? I feel the need to do this.

Oh, and the 380 loads worked fine, but some were a tad light. Time to save for a Chargemaster.

shalafi4
Feb 20, 2011

another medical bills avatar

Butch Cassidy posted:

Double-Post for important-to-me question:

What would happen if I filled a 30-30 case with Trail Boss under a 170 grain JFN? I feel the need to do this.

Oh, and the 380 loads worked fine, but some were a tad light. Time to save for a Chargemaster.

From everything I've read

Whatever you do DON'T crush the Trail Boss...

past that go for it.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Butch Cassidy posted:

Double-Post for important-to-me question:

What would happen if I filled a 30-30 case with Trail Boss under a 170 grain JFN? I feel the need to do this.

Oh, and the 380 loads worked fine, but some were a tad light. Time to save for a Chargemaster.

Suppress it!

FauxhawkSatan
Mar 27, 2010


So I just ordered the Lyman T-mag Expert kit to start reloading and had a few questions.

I will be reloading 6.5 creedmoor and I think a few people here are loading that also. Has anyone tried forming 6.5 creedmoor brass out of .22-250 or .308? I will be using the hornady creedmoor brass to begin with but would like to be able to form it from something else in the future. Oncefiredbrass.net has .22-250 and .308 for $15/100 and figured at those savings it would be worth the effort to try to make some.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Doc_Awesome posted:

So I just ordered the Lyman T-mag Expert kit to start reloading and had a few questions.

I will be reloading 6.5 creedmoor and I think a few people here are loading that also. Has anyone tried forming 6.5 creedmoor brass out of .22-250 or .308? I will be using the hornady creedmoor brass to begin with but would like to be able to form it from something else in the future. Oncefiredbrass.net has .22-250 and .308 for $15/100 and figured at those savings it would be worth the effort to try to make some.

If you do wind up doing it, could you post a how-to? I think it'd be interesting. I haven't done anything of the sort before, but one thing you might note is that .22-250 is a few thousandths shorter (trim-to length) than 6.5 CM, and you may also have to do some fire-forming, just from what I'm Googling.

FauxhawkSatan
Mar 27, 2010


thermobollocks posted:

If you do wind up doing it, could you post a how-to? I think it'd be interesting. I haven't done anything of the sort before, but one thing you might note is that .22-250 is a few thousandths shorter (trim-to length) than 6.5 CM, and you may also have to do some fire-forming, just from what I'm Googling.

Yea, reading online it looks like people have formed 6.5CM from 22-250. They little shorter length didnt seem to matter. People have also used .308 but it looks like .22-250 is easier. I ordered some 6.5CM brass and will get some .22-250 to start experimenting and I'll post my results. It might be a few weeks since I am currently moving.

Wa11y
Jul 23, 2002

Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

Edit: ^^^ Send me your new address, and I'll send you a nice housewarming gift, as noted at the bottom of my post!

thermobollocks posted:

If you do wind up doing it, could you post a how-to? I think it'd be interesting. I haven't done anything of the sort before, but one thing you might note is that .22-250 is a few thousandths shorter (trim-to length) than 6.5 CM, and you may also have to do some fire-forming, just from what I'm Googling.

I've not done any fire forming of brass yet, but the process seems pretty straight forward. However, success largely depends on how drastic the change in dimensions is.

Expand or reduce: Depending on how far you need to go, expanding may lead to more split cases than properly expanded cases. Going from a .22 to a .25 may not be a big deal, but going from a .22 to a .308 will probably split a lot of cases. However, expanding tends to take less physical effort than reducing the size of the brass. But reducing the brass will lead to less split cases, though you might have to reduce the outer diameter of the neck so it will fit your chamber. You also risk creasing or buckling the case if you go too far.

Also, depending on how much you're changing the dimensions (whether expanding or reducing), you may also need to go in steps. Like, first size the .22 up to .25, then to .270, then to .308, or a few more gradients in between.

Looks like Hornady also makes some hydraulic forming dies that I guess maybe take less effort, or are easier on the brass? I'm not really sure what the advantage is, though with using a liquid I would think it would probably be a lot messier.

Once you've got the case close to the dimensions you want, then you need to actually fire form the case to the final dimensions.

To do this, you can either use a low end charge for your cartridge and a bullet, or you can use a decent amount of fast burning pistol powder, some filler material (usually dry Cream of Wheat cereal) and some sort of plug at the mouth of the case (some use wax, others stuff a cleaning patch or some toilet paper down, it just has to keep everything in the case until you fire it, not actually be a projectile, though you should follow normal safe shooting processes with this, since it'll be coming out of the barrel pretty fast).

I would think if the dimensions of the sized case are close to the final case (such as converting to an Ackley Improved cartridge, where all you're doing is changing the shoulder geometry) then it's best to just use a light load and a bullet, but if you really have to change the case geometry, you'd probably be best served with the pistol powder and filler method.

I have my concerns about using a heavy load of pistol powder, due to pressure, but since you're not actually capping the case with anything that will provide resistance, so there's not going to be the pressure spike you'd see with a bullet on there. This method also helps reduce wear on the barrel, since you're not actually sending a bullet down it (this assumes you're using a cartridge where barrel life is an important factor).

Here's a write up of how to fire form brass using either method. While it's specifically about forming .243 Remington cases to .260 Ackley Improved, he has to both expand the case mouth, and fire form the brass, much like what I'd expect you'd have to do for making 6.5 Creedmoor. About halfway down the page there's a section "Alternate 'No-Bullet' Fire-Forming Using Inert Filler" that goes into using pistol powder, filler material (dry Cream of Wheat cereal) and a cap (in this case, Crisco). He talks about "working up" a load of pistol powder. Sounds like something you'd want to do at a shooting range, but be sure to bring a cleaning rod with a jag and some patches along to push anything left in the bore out.

Obviously, the pistol powder and filler method wouldn't be something you'd want to use in a semi-automatic, like an AR-15.

I believe B4ct0m1 has done some fire forming of 7.62x39mm brass to 6.5 Grendel. But then, the parent case of the 6.5 Grendel is the .220 Russian, which is just a necked down 7.62x39 (I guess 7.62x39 would be the grandparent case?). You might try seeing if he's willing to explain the process.

If you don't yet have the .22-250 cases, let me know before you buy some. I've got a box of 40 Remington .22-250 cases that are once fired out of my Thompson Center Encore. They're fired, and haven't been resized or deprimed or anything. If you want them, and are willing to do a good write up with pictures, I'll send them your way if you PM me your address.

FauxhawkSatan
Mar 27, 2010


I just ordered my reload press and aside from reloading a few .223 rounds on a friends press I have no reloading experience so I was going to wait a bit before I try to form some 6.5CM. I don't even have the 6.5CM rifle yet. Thanks for the offer Wa11y, but I think I'm gonna pass because it's gonna be a while before I try it. I'll be sure to make a write up of when I do attempt however.

Wa11y
Jul 23, 2002

Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

Doc_Awesome posted:

Thanks for the offer Wa11y, but I think I'm gonna pass because it's gonna be a while before I try it. I'll be sure to make a write up of when I do attempt however.

I'll probably still have the brass when you start. I've had it for quite a while now. All my other .22-250 brass is Winchester, and I have hangups about loading in groups of less than 50 (don't you judge me), so I don't think I'll ever use this brass. If you change your mind, let me know.

FauxhawkSatan
Mar 27, 2010


Wa11y posted:

I'll probably still have the brass when you start. I've had it for quite a while now. All my other .22-250 brass is Winchester, and I have hangups about loading in groups of less than 50 (don't you judge me), so I don't think I'll ever use this brass. If you change your mind, let me know.

Hell, if it's just gonna sit I'll take it. I can start forming it on the press pretty soon. The fireforming and actual loading of it will have to wait a while though. I won't use all of it right away so if you do end up wanting it back, I'll gladly send it back. I'll have a writeup, just don't expect it like next week. I'll PM you address.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

The hydraulic dies would save you from spending money on bullets to fire-form with. Though I also remember a Gimpsuit post where he still blew up bunnies at sixty billion meters with random fuckoff fireform loads.

Mishra
Dec 12, 2007



Well My setup is good to go. All I need is to go buy some Primers and Powder. Anyone have a tips on how to set the factory crimp die?


Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


No tips on the crimp die, but be sure to put your vibrator on the floor when you use it. Those things will run right off a bench.

evilhat
Sep 13, 2004
When I get angry I turn into a Hat

Doc_Awesome posted:

So I just ordered the Lyman T-mag Expert kit to start reloading and had a few questions.

I will be reloading 6.5 creedmoor and I think a few people here are loading that also. Has anyone tried forming 6.5 creedmoor brass out of .22-250 or .308? I will be using the hornady creedmoor brass to begin with but would like to be able to form it from something else in the future. Oncefiredbrass.net has .22-250 and .308 for $15/100 and figured at those savings it would be worth the effort to try to make some.

I asked about doing this back earlier in the thread. I think most people feel all the effort and cost of the bullet to form it, make it on par with buying new brass or loaded ammo. I have all the equip to do it, so maybe I will give it a shot and try a sample tonight.

To add content, I tried my hand at shot shell reloading last weekend. The lee load all isn't bad, prob can make 4 rounds a min. 1 in 8 did pucker up a day later, but im sure that will go away with practice.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

GroovinPickle posted:

No tips on the crimp die, but be sure to put your vibrator on the floor when you use it. Those things will run right off a bench.

I haven't had any problems leaving mine on my dryer. That poo poo echoes, though

The crimp die's about like adjusting most of your other dies. Here's a brief, very general tutorial on how to adjust dies, and as far as I know it applies to some neck sizers, all seaters, all flaring dies, and all crimp dies.

First, put a case in your shellholder, and no die in your press.
Run the handle of the press all the way down, which puts the shell all the way up into where the die would be.
Begin to twist the die into the press. You will need a bullet in your case (charged) if you're doing the seater die.
When the die meets enough resistance that turning it gets tough, this means it's contacting the brass/bullet and beginning to do work.
Back out the case from the die, and tighten the die by about an eighth to a quarter turn.
Push the shell back up, and examine your case/cartridge (will it just barely accept a bullet? Is the COL correct? Do you have the desired amount of crimp?).
If the results are as you'd like, great! Tighten the locking ring of your die, and go hog wild (in a controlled and safe manner as always)!
If not, tighten it some more (or back it out if you've gone too hog wild) and repeat.

It's a process you'll learn very quickly by feel, and some dies are different from others regarding how fine of an adjustment they provide.

The Lee crimp die is particularly forgiving among crimp dies. It's pretty cool because it uses those floating collet thingies to squeeze the brass against the bullet, instead of simply driving it into a crimp-shaped socket. My RCBS roll crimp dies, for example, take roughly 1/2 turn to go from "No crimp" to "loving tight as hell magnum-rear end levergun crimp." There's also a rifle variant that will help make your necks a little more uniform, and tight enough around the bullet that even a gorilla-bolted half-retarded autoloader can't gently caress them up.

You would follow the same adjustment procedure as above, but what you're looking for in a crimp can depend. You're doing .40, correct? This is a straight walled pistol case that typically uses a taper crimp, because it's for a semi-auto. As a starting point, I suggest holding the case up to a reading light, and seeing if there's any visible flare in the case mouth. Second, and be VERY CAREFUL with this, see if it fits in the intended gun's chamber. Note that you have live ammo at this point, so don't loving fire it, and if you accidentally puncture your TV, take pictures and show us as soon as your significant other bails you out of jail.
If you can see some flare, or even worse, if it doesn't chamber (you have way too much flare), then you'd start with 1/8 turn adjustments to the crimping die as described. You should still be able to scrape the case mouth against your fingernail, because straight walled rimless cases headspace on the mouth. This means you need the case mouth to not be pushed in too far, otherwise ammo will get shoved too far into the chamber.

So, now that you've just barely taken the flare off the case, you're still not done yet. To see if you need even more crimp, you'll want to make sure the action of your gun doesn't push or pull around the bullet. To do this, measure the COL of a bullet, and cycle it 2-3 times by loading it into the magazine, slingshotting your slide and NOT riding it, then ejecting. Remember still not to shoot your TV. If the COL of that test round doesn't change by more than about two thousandths of an inch (just over what my calipers resolve from measurement to measurement), you're golden.

Also, drat. .

shalafi4
Feb 20, 2011

another medical bills avatar

Mishra posted:

Well My setup is good to go. All I need is to go buy some Primers and Powder. Anyone have a tips on how to set the factory crimp die?

Lee factory crimp I'm assuming?

actually read the little instruction thing that came with it... They're actually quite well written.

Mishra
Dec 12, 2007



thermobollocks posted:

.

Cool, My significant other already thinks I'm going to blow myself up. Can I do this check with a de-primed un-powdered bullet? Also Shalafi, thanks after how piss poor the Loadmasters instructions were I assumed the others were as well. I'll take a good look.

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kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


Got my new 45acp loads worked up and working in my 1911

200gr Berry's PSWC
3.7gr VV N310
1.245 OAL (iirc)

Here's the first 3 groups at 12y




One at 15y (with a shameful flinch)




And one at 20y!




Sadly I tossed the target so I don't have anything for scale, and the website doesn't have deets http://letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=SI-5. But at least it shoots straight pretty consistently.

Everything shot great with a 14lb variable wolff recoil spring and a 17lb mainspring. I tried once to bump it up to a 15lb recoil spring but ended up with ejection issues. I also pulled the retarded bullshit out of my gun.

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