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Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.


BiggerBoat posted:

Speaking only for myself, I'm just not sure what they could bring to it game play wise beyond a fresh coat of shiny paint/better graphics.

Nothing.

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Lord Ludikrous
Jun 6, 2008

Enjoy your tea...



sigher posted:

Have it not look like poo poo; RE4's visuals have aged like milk. Remember when everyone hated shooters for being completely brown? RE4 is the earliest game I can think of that did that poo poo, it's 99.9% of the game's palette.

To be fair I the worst earliest offender for this I can think of is Quake.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Remake RE4 ala Shadow of the Colossus with a fancy new engine and some minor gameplay adjustments.

RE2make didnt break just because they added moving while shooting. Adding few QoL features to RE4 while keeping the experience intact would work.

WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Apr 15, 2020

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



I think the difference between a remake of an over the shoulder game and a remake of a top down game is pretty obvious. It's not just graphical, the RE2 and 3 remakes basically completely overhaul everything about the actual moment to moment experience of moving around and shooting. The best they'll be able to do for RE4 is to tinker around the edges, and it is a game which has aged pretty well (apart from dragging on for far too long imo).

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011
I got chased out of the Monster Hunter thread for garbage posting, now I shit up other Games threads with useless low-effort uninformed aggro noise. I somehow think "VN nerds" are beneath me and I belong on your ignore list.

cargohills posted:

(apart from dragging on for far too long imo).
Well, that's one of those things that are pretty much up to personal taste, I think. A lot of games these days feel rushed and way too short to me, especially anything in the more action-centric genres, so I really appreciated that RE4 took its time and gave us more variety and content. I love RE2make, but I wouldn't have minded at all if it had been twice as long as it is.

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?


Has noone done one of those “Re4 in the Re2make engine” mods yet? All i ever see of Re2make mods are slutty costumes(for leon as well to be fair).

Vikar Jerome
Nov 26, 2013

I believe Emmanuelle is shit, though Emmanuelle 2, Emmanuelle '77 and Goodbye, Emmanuelle may be very good movies.

re4 is only obviously brown in the village, it goes more white and grey in the castle and blue on the island but both those last parts are still way more colourful than the village its kinda the point. its good art direction.

its funny because i think the village was the last area they worked on. wish they had kept that airship. maybe the remake will add it in and drop in more of wesker's H.C.F influence like the "progenitor virus" trailer of 3.5 (ripped from the gamecube trial disc, wesker attacked the island and thats how leon got infected, the airship was meant to be the transport between the island and the castle) but i doubt they will throw in the other 3.5 versions like hookman. i 100% bet they are using those ideas for re8 from what i can tell.

Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Apr 15, 2020

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


cargohills posted:

I think the difference between a remake of an over the shoulder game and a remake of a top down game is pretty obvious. It's not just graphical, the RE2 and 3 remakes basically completely overhaul everything about the actual moment to moment experience of moving around and shooting. The best they'll be able to do for RE4 is to tinker around the edges, and it is a game which has aged pretty well (apart from dragging on for far too long imo).
Yeah, I kinda feel like if you're just doing RE4 but in the RE engine then what's even the point? Sure, it'll look much better, but graphics alone aren't really that exciting. Plus, with the remakes, and especially 3, zombies are starting to encroach quite a bit on ganado territory. Given that RE4's whole thing was departing from standard RE gameplay because it was getting stale, having it stick so closely to its roots that it ends up feeling like just a continuation of the remakes seems wrong. Not saying it needs as sharp a break, but some sort of evolution does seem warranted.

As for how, the obvious difference between zombies and ganados is the latter actually being smart, so having them act together to take down Leon seems an obvious direction to push. Like, instead of having every enemy just being a simply damage dealer, you could have ones that try to net/grab Leon so others can get him with slow and powerful attacks, stuff like that. This would also strengthen the whole horror of them being essentially possessed rather than undead, both from the threat they pose - unlike zombies, whose greatest deception is pretending to be dead, a ganado can pretend to a normal person and then flip into a murderous rage at a moment's notice - but also how this indicates that maybe these people aren't beyond saving. Push that bit, add more life and color to the village at daytime when Leon first arrives, to add more contrast to the nighttime horrors as the village gets shrouded in darkness - the only light being two burning cops.

Vikar Jerome posted:

re4 is only obviously brown in the village, it goes more white and grey in the castle and blue on the island but both those last parts are still way more colourful than the village its kinda the point. its good art direction.
I don't think it's good art direction. Like, obviously the castle has to be more in your face visually, but that doesn't mean the village has to be a study in brown. Some splashes of color here and there, to indicate the (stolen) humanity of the people who live there, who like all people wanted their homes to look good despite whatever levels of poverty they live in. Floral wreaths, accents of paint, all of it would sell the idea that this village wasn't created to be the home of evil - the evil just took up residence.

There's definitely also a lot they can do with lighting, something they've already experimented a little with in 3. The headlights right near the gate that leads to/from the subway station casts some pretty dramatic shadows when you move past them, and ganados with torches could do similar, especially in a dark village setting. Like, maybe the first thing you see when a group of ganados approaches is giant shadows creeping over the facades of buildings, pitchforks and axes casting threatening silhouettes, and you have to decide then and there whether retreating or standing your ground is the better option. I suppose this is actually a case of graphics influencing gameplay, though obviously the decision to back up a little needs to be a real possibility for it to work.

A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Apr 15, 2020

Mr. Maggy
Aug 17, 2014



People keep saying this like they liked hammering the poo poo out of their controller once a cutscene to do a thing really fast

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011
I got chased out of the Monster Hunter thread for garbage posting, now I shit up other Games threads with useless low-effort uninformed aggro noise. I somehow think "VN nerds" are beneath me and I belong on your ignore list.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

As for how, the obvious difference between zombies and ganados is the latter actually being smart, so having them act together to take down Leon seems an obvious direction to push. Like, instead of having every enemy just being a simply damage dealer, you could have ones that try to net/grab Leon so others can get him with slow and powerful attacks, stuff like that.
I think this is actually not a bad direction to take with this. It plays to one of the biggest differences between RE4 and the Resident Evil games that came before it: even though they're changed, Ganados are still people, and not quite things. The ability to cooperate and act creatively and sometimes even of their own volition (remember axe guy, in the canyon?) is part of what makes them dangerous.

I'm not so enthused about the rest of this, though. Unless you want to have lots of neutral civilians in the game, which would play havoc with the mood and structure of the game, there is just no room for Ganados pretending to be normal people in there. Plus, even in RE4, it was kind of clear that when they pretend to be "normal," they do it badly. The after-game slide show showed off how the Ganados quickly degenerate into something not quite human anymore when they're left to their own devices and not directly commanded by someone. It's part of the tragedy of the situation - just look at that sketch that explains why there are no children in the village anymore.

Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Apr 15, 2020

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS





Mr. Maggy posted:

People keep saying this like they liked hammering the poo poo out of their controller once a cutscene to do a thing really fast

I mean, like, that's stuff they probably could've fixed in the ports if they had bothered.
*Besides a handful of small quality of life improvements* I don't see why the game needs a full remake.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




I wish for a title, not necessarily a Resident Evil, to double-down on the grounded-Metroid you find in the Spencer Mansion, RPD, and Baker Plantation. You might not ever double-jump but you'll collect a load of fancy keys (That you will inevitably discard). Maybe add in a load of optional puzzles, branching paths, and multiple endings.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

"I dont fully understand football contracts but you can just be outright cut if you're shit right? With no penalties? Hockey needs that."

I Am Marc Bergevin IRL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUBGdVaWzeg

lurker2006
Jul 30, 2019


Cardiovorax posted:

I'm not so enthused about the rest of this, though.
I agree it would be a bad idea to incorporate are they still human type indecision into the actual gameplay, but it's an aspect that's asking to be mined for story and world building material. While it''s understandable that they didn't dwell on the tragedy of the goons you're gleefully massacring it still felt oddly downplayed, like Sadler's only real crime was kidnapping an american girl, nobody really gave a poo poo that he mindwiped and enslaved an entire village. Giving the Louis character a connection to the village in his backstory or having a couple holdouts you encounter might be a couple avenues to explore it in the new game.

lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 15, 2020

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS





Inspector Gesicht posted:

I wish for a title, not necessarily a Resident Evil, to double-down on the grounded-Metroid you find in the Spencer Mansion, RPD, and Baker Plantation. You might not ever double-jump but you'll collect a load of fancy keys (That you will inevitably discard). Maybe add in a load of optional puzzles, branching paths, and multiple endings.

This is what I wish modern Tomb Raider games had become instead of the "uncharted but with a crafting system and torture porn" direction they went. Atmospheric exploration of a sprawling underground labyrinth, solving puzzles, fighting ancient monsters instead of hiding behind cover against hitscan enemies and shooting them when they poke their heads out.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011
I got chased out of the Monster Hunter thread for garbage posting, now I shit up other Games threads with useless low-effort uninformed aggro noise. I somehow think "VN nerds" are beneath me and I belong on your ignore list.

lurker2006 posted:

I agree it would be a bad idea to incorporate are they still human type indecision into the actual gameplay, but it's an aspect that's asking to be mined for story and world building material. While it''s understandable that they didn't dwell on the tragedy of the goons you're gleefully massacring it still felt oddly downplayed, like Sadler's only real crime was kidnapping an american girl, nobody really gave a poo poo that he mindwiped and enslaved an entire village. Giving the Louis character a connection to the village in his backstory or having a couple holdouts you encounter might be one avenue to explore it in the new game.
It's the kind of thing I certainly wouldn't mind seeing in files, I just wouldn't want it to be an aspect of the gameplay. Resident Evil 5 started moving in that direction with some files from people watching their neighbours suddenly get weird and start to dress in grass skirts, that sort of thing. It wasn't done all that well, but the sentiment is there, so I imagine any remake would lean on that aspect more heavily.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


Cardiovorax posted:

I'm not so enthused about the rest of this, though. Unless you want to have lots of neutral civilians in the game, which would play havoc with the mood and structure of the game, there is just no room for Ganados pretending to be normal people in there. Plus, even in RE4, it was kind of clear that when they pretend to be "normal," they do it badly. The after-game slide show showed off how the Ganados quickly degenerate into something not quite human anymore when they're left to their own devices and not directly commanded by someone. It's part of the tragedy of the situation - just look at that sketch that explains why there are no children in the village anymore.
I just meant having some sort of "village life" as Leon arrives, not as a permanent feature of the experience. Like, have him arrive at the village as the sun is setting, with villagers going about their business in the shadows or looking up at him with a surly expression - enough to make him feel like it's a bit off, but not so much that he doesn't just dismiss it as them being hostile to this cool and extremely handsome American whose jacket probably costs more than all their clothes combined. Like, he gets dropped off in the village and asks a villager for directions, and the villager just grunts and points into the forest, and Leon is all like "What's this guy's problem?" before venturing into the ever darkening forest. When he gets back it's barbecue time.

lurker2006 posted:

I agree it would be a bad idea to incorporate are they still human type indecision into the actual gameplay, but it's an aspect that's asking to be mined for story and world building material. While it''s understandable that they didn't dwell on the tragedy of the goons you're gleefully massacring it still felt oddly downplayed, like Sadler's only real crime was kidnapping an american girl, nobody really gave a poo poo that he mindwiped and enslaved an entire village. Giving the Louis character a connection to the village in his backstory or having a couple holdouts you encounter might be a couple avenues to explore it in the new game.
This is precisely it. It's not a gameplay thing as such, it's more about world building and pushing the tragedy of what happened.

Cardiovorax posted:

It's the kind of thing I certainly wouldn't mind seeing in files, I just wouldn't want it to be an aspect of the gameplay. Resident Evil 5 started moving in that direction with some files from people watching their neighbours suddenly get weird and start to dress in grass skirts, that sort of thing. It wasn't done all that well, but the sentiment is there, so I imagine any remake would lean on that aspect more heavily.
Files can be great, but the strength of the RE writers in terms of hitting darker emotional beats is definitely in the personal voiced interactions and facial expressions, not written messages. The files that really work are the ones that are like real life stupid HR poo poo, except everyone either is or works for an evil super scientist who'd feed people to a monster if they complained about the quality of the toilet paper - you know, the fun stuff.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011
I got chased out of the Monster Hunter thread for garbage posting, now I shit up other Games threads with useless low-effort uninformed aggro noise. I somehow think "VN nerds" are beneath me and I belong on your ignore list.

Alright, fair enough. I caught you wrong there. Yeah, I can see what you mean and I think it would not be a bad way to establish the mood of the game, just stretch out that first encounter a bit more, maybe make the Ganados be visibly setting up an ambush around Leon as he asks for information on Ashley. That's a good idea.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




quote="Augus" post="504128564"]
This is what I wish modern Tomb Raider games had become instead of the "uncharted but with a crafting system and torture porn" direction they went. Atmospheric exploration of a sprawling underground labyrinth, solving puzzles, fighting ancient monsters instead of hiding behind cover against hitscan enemies and shooting them when they poke their heads out.
[/quote]

New-New-Tomb-Raider never worked for me. Other games like Evil Within 2 and Dying Light may have on the surface the usual dramatic story, upgrade-system, stealth, and open-world elements but those two games have a strong identity that sets them apart: What if Resident Evil 4 was made in 2017? What if Dead Island was actually good?

New Raider never rises above its borrowed elements, and I especially loathed Lara. For one she's boring, and for two she's very insincere. You can't mow down hundreds of men and then act like an ingenue who's really passionate about archaeology. Also I'm Irish so I don't give a poo poo about an English heiress with white-people problems like a dead rich dad.

In RE2 Leon is a goody-two-shoes and Claire seems very happy to be here, and at no point did their characterization rub me the wrong way. The whole she-bang with Umbrella as an overarching menace is more effective than introducing a boring organization in one game only to dispatch them offhand in the next game because nobody cares.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo


Oh poo poo I forgot Evil Within existed. Is that the modern RE4 remake we've been asking for?

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

"I dont fully understand football contracts but you can just be outright cut if you're shit right? With no penalties? Hockey needs that."

I Am Marc Bergevin IRL


SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Oh poo poo I forgot Evil Within existed. Is that the modern RE4 remake we've been asking for?

First game bad/mediocre second game good?

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




Never played the first game, can vouch for the second.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011
I got chased out of the Monster Hunter thread for garbage posting, now I shit up other Games threads with useless low-effort uninformed aggro noise. I somehow think "VN nerds" are beneath me and I belong on your ignore list.

I didn't like either of them all that much.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


The first one is garbage and the second one is decent, but don't expect it to blow your socks off.

lurker2006
Jul 30, 2019


SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Oh poo poo I forgot Evil Within existed. Is that the modern RE4 remake we've been asking for?

I recollect the first one having a few stand out segments, mostly mid bosses and pursuit encounters, amid a sea of ots action mediocrity. Not really all that different from how I view re4 to be completely honest

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


Cardiovorax posted:

Alright, fair enough. I caught you wrong there. Yeah, I can see what you mean and I think it would not be a bad way to establish the mood of the game, just stretch out that first encounter a bit more, maybe make the Ganados be visibly setting up an ambush around Leon as he asks for information on Ashley. That's a good idea.
Your idea about an ambush just made me have the idea that upon his return from finding jack poo poo in the forest apart from an injured dog, the same ganado excitedly corrals him to the village square to show him something, like some annoying tourist trap dude - except when the crowd parts its two cops on a pyre rather than some fun village festivities - and now Leon is trapped right in the middle of a huge crowd of ganados.

As for the mood setting thing, I just realized this is sorta what they did in RE5, except to a very different effect. There was no false sense of safety, the way things were shot and the harsh lighting all screamed danger, and Chris and Sheva were acting like soldiers ready for combat - not a bored secret service agent longing for the days when he was surviving a zombie apocalypse with this hot secret agent chick. Like someone pointed out earlier, he starts the game kinda bummed out about not getting to take down Umbrella, and just generally bored with life from the looks of it. Even being sent to find the president's daughter doesn't make him feel anything, now that he's tasted the rush of blasting disgusting mutants. Maybe push that point even further by this being just another lead for her whereabouts, with Leon assuming this is another dead end - and then you spring the roasted cops on him - leading into his metamorphosis into full action hero adrenaline junky.

Bert of the Forest
Apr 27, 2013

Shucks folks, I'm speechless. Hawf Hawf Hawf!

I think a remake would be a fun opportunity to see what the story of RE4 might look like when presented with the more dramatic lens of the modern remakes. The remakes still wind up being campy, but in a less overtly cartoonish way. Plus the Ganados would absolutely be terrifying rendered in the ultra-uncanny motion capture style the modern games have going for them, and that alone could carry me through a remake because I'm superficial like that.

Also, I've recently been playing the OTS-era games (4,5,6) all back to back during quarantine, and I gotta say in terms of controls, I think 6 is honestly the worst one by far, despite being the one that lets you move and shoot at the same time. Something about the way every animation is overly long and uninterruptible in 6 makes everything feel way more sluggish and unresponsive. Like, the remakes do this as well to an extent, but they don't feel frustrating the same way 6's controls do. It's like the stagger from RE3's dodge is applied to literally every action in 6, causing small delays between everything you want to do, and enemies seem much more teleport-y with their grabs, which makes everything feel sticky and ambiguous. Why the hell is this the one people use for Mercenaries? 5 has to have the tightest controls in this era.

Bert of the Forest fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Apr 15, 2020

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?


With todays graphics shooting down hordes of villagers would be weird as gently caress,even if they do end up having knife dicks sprouting out of their heads.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition


You know, come to think of it, RE4's opening hours are deliberately reminiscent of Italian horror movies like Zombi, which is why it's so rural and brown.

Since RE4 ended up so influential on action games in the next couple of console generations, you could argue that RE4 is the father of that unfortunate "real = brown" trend that characterized so many AAA games from 2005 to 2015 or so.

Bert of the Forest
Apr 27, 2013

Shucks folks, I'm speechless. Hawf Hawf Hawf!

I liked that trend of undersaturation. We're now in a trend of oversaturation and ya know what? Brown had its place. I didn't need everything in the world to have it, but the brown, dismal look added a lot to RE4's atmosphere, and I felt most of the areas afterward were never as visually strong.

Bert of the Forest fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 16, 2020

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Bert of the Forest posted:

I liked that trend of undersaturation. We're now in a trend of oversaturation

We need complete global saturation

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Oh poo poo I forgot Evil Within existed. Is that the modern RE4 remake we've been asking for?

real talk: they're both worth playing and will scratch your RE itch but EW1 has way too many cheap deaths and puts you on rails way too much. EW2 is loving great all the way through, IMO, and fixes all the poo poo that was broken in part 1. I'd play them both but 2 is the only one I'd wholeheartedly recommend and that I think measures up against the RE franchise.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG




in order to get the resources they need for RE4 remake they're burning off everyones steam library copies into a graphical slurry

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Good to hear, REmake3 reminded me how much I enjoy these types of games and Green Mam Gaming had EW1, EW2 and 7 on sale for $30 all told and snatched em up.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

"I dont fully understand football contracts but you can just be outright cut if you're shit right? With no penalties? Hockey needs that."

I Am Marc Bergevin IRL


Wanderer posted:

You know, come to think of it, RE4's opening hours are deliberately reminiscent of Italian horror movies like Zombi, which is why it's so rural and brown.

Since RE4 ended up so influential on action games in the next couple of console generations, you could argue that RE4 is the father of that unfortunate "real = brown" trend that characterized so many AAA games from 2005 to 2015 or so.

Thank god uncharted fixed that

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.


Lord Ludikrous posted:

To be fair I the worst earliest offender for this I can think of is Quake.

True.

WaltherFeng posted:

RE2make didnt break just because they added moving while shooting. Adding few QoL features to RE4 while keeping the experience intact would work.

You'd have to completely redo enemies like they did with RE2make though, which is much more than just a small QOL feature. Just completely redoing the game visually 1:1 would be a huge undertaking and I don't see them keeping everything. I don't see them remaking RE4 without cutting stuff out, especially if they cut poo poo from one of the shortest entries in the series.

WatermelonGun
May 7, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


evil within 2 is fun to play

Malcolm Excellent
May 20, 2007




Buglord

WatermelonGun posted:

evil within 2 is fun to play

THERE'S EVIL WITHIN, TOO

Bert of the Forest
Apr 27, 2013

Shucks folks, I'm speechless. Hawf Hawf Hawf!

They are practically guaranteed to cut stuff from the remake yeah, it’s pretty much wishful thinking to say otherwise. A 1:1 remake in terms of content probably wouldn’t be feasible with the way modern game budgets balloon up, so I’d expect certain areas to be truncated at the very least. Of course I fall into the camp that thinks there’s some fat to be cut in RE4 anyway, but again, it’s not like the original gets erased in the process.

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man nurse
Feb 17, 2014

Oh yeah, that guy is totally straight. I saw a whole thing about him on the VH1.

I've said it before and I'm saying it again: Remaking 4 is like playing with fire. That was a game so fully well realized in what it set out to be, so satisfying to play that it borders on timeless, that I think making even the most minor of changes to its mechanics maybe save for a quick weapon swap is absolute lunacy.

Do you really want a Resi 4 where you can move while you aim and other bullshit like that? That would dramatically change the feel and mechanics of RE 4. They may as well make an entirely new game at that point. And I don't know about you, but when I think "Man, I could really go for playing RE 4 right now", I don't think to myself "Man, I wish this was a substantially different game".

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