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Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



SlicerDicer posted:

I really only care that people are safe! *I do not want died I want everybody to go home to their families with great stories* I would prefer somebody to be a dork diver and be safe than be unsafe.

But one could say what I do is unsafe so who am I to judge? The whole DIR stuff drives me batty.. Militant to the eleventh degree and would be impossible to plan my dives by their standards...

Also what I carry violates their rules.. I will lay out my entire kit and take pic of it for you guys so you can see the absurdity of my stuff. Feel free to laugh at me :P

I think the problem with DIR is that they've taken a system designed for cave exploration in florida and extrapolated it to environments where the common denominator is you're underwater. The rabid devotion of some of it's trainees is a shame because fundies sounds like a loving awesome course.

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Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.


rockcity posted:

They're very easy on the ankles though.

The one thing that helped me the most with ankle soreness and chafing was switching to a frog kick.

I'll never go back.

TLG James
Jun 5, 2000

Questing ain't easy


Does anyone have any thoughts on the lower end dive computers? I've been eyeing the Cressi Leonardo.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



TLG James posted:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the lower end dive computers? I've been eyeing the Cressi Leonardo.

Do you have an aversion to buying used? Dive gear depreciates alot.

TLG James
Jun 5, 2000

Questing ain't easy


Loving Africa Chaps posted:

Do you have an aversion to buying used? Dive gear depreciates alot.

No. I've been looking on ebay, but it's been pretty much poo poo for this.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



TLG James posted:

No. I've been looking on ebay, but it's been pretty much poo poo for this.

Forums are probably your best bet. https://www.scubaboard.com is the biggest. I'm in the market for a dive computer and am looking used as i figure for the price of a basic computer like the suunto zoop and i could buy something used that would do gas switching and so last me a lot longer.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


TLG James posted:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the lower end dive computers? I've been eyeing the Cressi Leonardo.

I know nothing about that computer, but i use a 100 dollar dive computer i bought 3 years ago still. You'll be fine with a low end dive computer.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE


Just my two cents...

I use plywood strength jet fins. They are RIGID and will cramp the hell out of your legs if you are not usto them. So yeah by all rights everybody who does not have them sucks right? No.. I just have to move a ton of gear through the water in current.

If I use splitfins they flex so hard I cannot get propulsion at all. And most fins are too weak they just fold under pressure and say you suck bro. So thats my experience, weight/propulsion and current. I use what I use as they work. If jetfins work great! If spltifins work great! If the ones with the little rubber bands work great!

I know people with knee problems that swear by rubber band ones..
crampy leg people swear by splitfins etc.

Its all matter of what your body can do and what you are willing to do. If you cannot kick against current and do it reasonably either drift it or dont dive it. However my LDS refuses to drop on a site moored without first ensuring current is viable for dive. I dunno? Fins are fins! I have used just about every kind of fin you can imagine they all work just differently.

And for dive computers match to what you are doing!


Bishop, I will let you and any other tech diver know how the petrels are after Saturday.

SlicerDicer fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Dec 7, 2012

egyptian rat race
Jul 13, 2007

Lowtax Spine Fund 2019


Ultra Carp

Checking in from Lake Erie. I'm diving here in December because my boss hates me Hurricane Sandy did a number on some breakwater and bulkhead structures. My gauges show water temps in the low 40F range and surface temps starting in the low 30's. The bottom material adjacent to this old factory outflow smells like rot and petroleum, but I'm sure it has nothing to do with all the dead fish. Thank heaven for drysuits. All the gear was frozen into a twisted shape this morning and had to be thawed out just enough to don it. I busted a BCD already and I'm in a generally foul mood.

I've been in worse water and sea states. Vis is decent (2ft, ) and it isn't salt. Still, the cold takes the diving to a whole different level of suck. I'm definitely jealous of the diving photos posted lately!

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.



For low-end dive computers I can advice the Suunto D4I. The Zoop is also a pretty decent piece of kit as well.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE


MA-Horus posted:

For low-end dive computers I can advice the Suunto D4I. The Zoop is also a pretty decent piece of kit as well.

suunto will generally keep you very safe too *NOT SAYING YOU WONT BEND LIKE PRETZEL*

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


SlicerDicer posted:

suunto will generally keep you very safe too *NOT SAYING YOU WONT BEND LIKE PRETZEL*

Yeah, Suunto algorithms are 1% more conservative when calculating Nitrox. I have the mosquito which does that.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



MA-Horus posted:

For low-end dive computers I can advice the Suunto D4I. The Zoop is also a pretty decent piece of kit as well.

Untill December 31 you'll also get a free wireless transmitter with the watch sized models.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE


rockcity posted:

Yeah, Suunto algorithms are 1% more conservative when calculating Nitrox. I have the mosquito which does that.

I am not sure I follow?

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


SlicerDicer posted:

I am not sure I follow?

If you put in your nitrox percentage, the depths and NDLs that it calculates are actually one percent higher than the actual value from the standard nitrox tables. So if you put in 26%, it's going to calculate it like it's 27%.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.



Loving Africa Chaps posted:

Untill December 31 you'll also get a free wireless transmitter with the watch sized models.

Goddammit. I wanted that transmitter, but I bought all my kit over in Thailand, so I didn't get one included.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE


rockcity posted:

If you put in your nitrox percentage, the depths and NDLs that it calculates are actually one percent higher than the actual value from the standard nitrox tables. So if you put in 26%, it's going to calculate it like it's 27%.

Thats kinda odd? But in OC mode my shearwater predator is more conservative than a suunto? I have noticed that at 30/85 Gradient Factor.

I dove 32% with my suunto and my predator few months back.

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


SlicerDicer posted:

Thats kinda odd? But in OC mode my shearwater predator is more conservative than a suunto? I have noticed that at 30/85 Gradient Factor.

I dove 32% with my suunto and my predator few months back.

Yeah, I'm assuming they do it as a precaution. That being said, I just put in 1% lower than what I'm diving so it calculates it by the tables.

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012


rockcity posted:

Yeah, I'm assuming they do it as a precaution. That being said, I just put in 1% lower than what I'm diving so it calculates it by the tables.

What they usually do is do the O2 as if it is higher and the N2 also as if it is higher. To be safe about toxicity, and also deco.

Stop thinking tables and dive computers have anything in common. They work under fairly different principles, and are designed for different purposes.

Trying to out-think your dive computer is probably a bad idea, IMHO. Either trust it or don't, but don't try and rig it by giving it bad info, and expect it to be anything but a wrist ornament.

It's like hanging your dive computer on the hang bar on the way down just so it does not go into deco.

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012


Loving Africa Chaps posted:

Do you have an aversion to buying used? Dive gear depreciates alot.

Buying Dive Computer used can be a bad idea, since closeout new ones are so cheap, and dive computers are pretty sensitive to care, or lack thereof.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Loving Africa Chaps posted:

Forums are probably your best bet. https://www.scubaboard.com is the biggest. I'm in the market for a dive computer and am looking used as i figure for the price of a basic computer like the suunto zoop and i could buy something used that would do gas switching and so last me a lot longer.

I bought my gear on Scubaboard and highly recommend doing so. After getting kinda ripped off by my local shop on mask/fins/snorkel, I checked Scubaboard and got a pretty high-end BC and reg+octo in perfect shape for less than I could've gotten the bottom-tier stuff for at retail. There's usually a few "I bought a bunch of stuff and dove twice and hated it, selling everything" sales that, if it fits and it's what you want, are probably the best way to get initially kitted.

Also keep an eye on closeouts and sales, last year's gear still new goes for pretty cheap. I've been borrowing a friend's gauge set and wanted a computer and Leisurepro had that Leonardo in a console with SPG for right around $200 on Black Friday so I grabbed it. I'm on the other side of the world from it so I can't tell you how it is, I'm not in love with the one-button control idea but for the price if it works at all I doubt I'll have complaints. You can get a really nice used computer on the boards, but out of all the gear I thought buying used electronics was just a bit too risky.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



If anyone wants to gently caress around with the Maths behind deco calculations I made an excel spreadsheet that's a zhl-16c trimix calculator.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqfs9r2wdip13eb/d2.xlsx

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE


Loving Africa Chaps posted:

If anyone wants to gently caress around with the Maths behind deco calculations I made an excel spreadsheet that's a zhl-16c trimix calculator.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqfs9r2wdip13eb/d2.xlsx

DISCLAIMER:NEVER EVER DIVE using this as a guide, this is not tested at all and you'll probably get killed

LOL!! Well not a truer word been spoken! Afterall Helium is still poorly understood.

Anyway thanks for sharing this is great

Pug Smugly
Apr 5, 2011


Just got off a two night/three day live abord on the great barrier reef. Room is rolling like nothing else right now. Did padi open water and adventure certifications at the same time. Had so much fun, I'll throw up some pics when I get them of my dive buddies drop box. next on my to do list dive the H.M.A.S Brisbane when I move back home in a few months. Goons, if your on the fence about diving do it, nothing like floating around weightless controlling your height by breathing while staring at crazy looking reef life.

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


So I did a dive this morning, and managed to go home without my hire tank. Went back, but it's gone. gently caress!

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000


Loving Africa Chaps posted:

I think the problem with DIR is that they've taken a system designed for cave exploration in Florida and extrapolated it to environments where the common denominator is you're underwater. The rabid devotion of some of it's trainees is a shame because fundies sounds like a loving awesome course.
I agree. I'm a fundies grad and dive close to, well now that I think about it a completely DIR rig. Fundies is a great course. This is purely anecdotal, but I haven't really seen any DIR nazis out on boats in a couple of years. These days I hear people complain about them far more than I actually see them They do have a somewhat good argument w/r/t gear setup though. If everyone has the same setup, it's much easier for a diver to help their buddy in an emergency situation.

TLG James posted:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the lower end dive computers? I've been eyeing the Cressi Leonardo.
This has been covered but lower end dive computers will work fine in most situations. Can you even buy a computer that does not do nitrox these days?



I did 118 minutes total run time including about 35 minutes of deco on the Spiegel Grove this morning. Ready for a nap now. I don't know if it's seasonal or what, but I've been seeing a lot of Goliath Grouper on that wreck recently. Fish that are bigger than you are always awesome.

The new Apeks regs breathe really well but I'm not liking the hose routing for doubles as much as my Scubapro regs. I'm gonna mess around with it and see if I can make things work better, but the Scubapro MK25 first stages just offer a ton more routing options. I now have Scubapros set up for deco tanks. I'd rather try and make things work this way because the Scubapro regs are a piston design, making them more flood tolerant and better for use on deco tanks, whereas the Apeks are diaphragm regs, making them better in cold water among other things. Long story short I have 4 first stages and 4 second stages that are all really good quality and can be adapted to whatever I need as I continue to feed my gear addiction.


I also started getting a low battery warning on my Sherwater Predator computer this morning, so I might be going back to diving preplanned tables until I get a new battery. I actually see this is a good thing because although I always make a backup deco plan in case the computer fails, it's really easy to become over-dependent on it. A few dives without a deco computer should be good.

SlicerDicer posted:

Thats kinda odd? But in OC mode my shearwater predator is more conservative than a suunto? I have noticed that at 30/85 Gradient Factor.

I dove 32% with my suunto and my predator few months back.
Suunto computers use the RGBM algorithim which is a VPM variant. The predator uses Buhlmann. This can make one computer more conservative than the other in some situations and more liberal in others. Sherwater now lets you buy firmware so it runs VPM which I've been considering it because I use VPM for my backup plan and it would be better if the two matched.

Loving Africa Chaps posted:

If anyone wants to gently caress around with the Maths behind deco calculations I made an excel spreadsheet that's a zhl-16c trimix calculator.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqfs9r2wdip13eb/d2.xlsx
This is the exact algroithim that the Predator uses (Buhlmann zhl-16c). It's kind of cool to mess with the math behind all of that but for actual dive planing I'll use Vplanner or another program to spit the results out for me. You can crunch the numbers and get a good dive plan from this or another deco algroithim but you have to stick to your dive plan and also not mess up the math.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Dec 10, 2012

macado
Jun 3, 2003

How to keep an idiot busy, Click here.

Bishop posted:

I agree. I'm a fundies grad and dive close to, well now that I think about it a completely DIR rig. Fundies is a great course. This is purely anecdotal, but I haven't really seen any DIR nazis out on boats in a couple of years. These days I hear people complain about them far more than I actually see them They do have a somewhat good argument w/r/t gear setup though. If everyone has the same setup, it's much easier for a diver to help their buddy in an emergency situation.

I find the DIR attitude has toned down a lot in the past few years especially as GUE themselves are moving away from the DIR moniker/term.

5 years ago, there was a pretty prevalent DIR attitude in New England. Lots of arrogance displayed, newly minted fundies divers were telling divers that had been diving 20 years/executing dives well below 200ft everything that was setup wrong with their kit.

I have nothing against GUE but that sort of attitude really turned me off to their teaching or some of their members My kits are pretty much all setup hogarthian which leads people to believe I'm DIR.

Even the internet attitude has toned down considerably. I think a lot of it came from people worshiping GI3.

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE


macado posted:

I find the DIR attitude has toned down a lot in the past few years especially as GUE themselves are moving away from the DIR moniker/term.

Well I mean if any of the DIRTARDS come at me I just tell them to die... If I want to do what I am doing and I feel safe and kill myself whatever.. I will become one of the many rebreathering statistics. However doing this or that this way or that way wont save you... Reading how people died and why.. Learning how to execute problem solving is pretty important too and using a brain! I will also note that proper bailout procedures and being calm in general is important.

If you dive with your brain and learn knowing that inherently its not dive gear but life support gear. I think thats important....

I dive alone (sometimes), I dive deeper than 30m on air, I use drysuit to adjust bouyancy sometimes, I use inflator with pull dump valve, decompression computers, big knives, snorkels.. I am sure other things will piss off the DIR divers..

LOL I say!

SlicerDicer fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Dec 12, 2012

Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!


Pug Smugly posted:

Just got off a two night/three day live abord on the great barrier reef. Room is rolling like nothing else right now. Did padi open water and adventure certifications at the same time. Had so much fun, I'll throw up some pics when I get them of my dive buddies drop box. next on my to do list dive the H.M.A.S Brisbane when I move back home in a few months.

As an odd coincidence, I did my AOW as a liveaboard on the GBR a few years back and dived on the HMAS Brisbane just last Saturday. Went out for 2 dives, but forgot to take my seasickness pills before leaving and I couldn't bring myself to go for the 2nd one, being too busy vomiting on an empty stomach.
It wasn't rough, and the boat trip out is very short. I'm just a lightweight and an idiot. I also got a bit of a headache come on as I was surfacing, so maybe I came up too fast?

Anyway, the Brisbane is a great site for your first wreck dive. I think it qualifies as more of a "swim through" than a wreck as it's very safe and open, but it's great. Lots of lion fish and some relative of the stone fish. Didn't see any of the octopus that hang out there though.

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003



What's everyone's favorite cheap diving computer? I've heard alot of recommendations for the Suunto Zoop.

Also what are brands of wetsuits I should be looking at, for California diving (7mm).

Edit: I'm not looking to cheap out on the wetsuit, but don't want to get the most expensive thing. Also I'm quite tall and thin.

Aquila fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Dec 14, 2012

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000



Dinosaur Gum

Well,aruba owns and I managed to dive with my computer locked out because I went deep on the second dive yesterday to break my lionfish death virginity. Pictures and a better write up next week, I have balashi to drink now.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Aquila posted:

What's everyone's favorite cheap diving computer? I've heard alot of recommendations for the Suunto Zoop.

Also what are brands of wetsuits I should be looking at, for California diving (7mm).

Edit: I'm not looking to cheap out on the wetsuit, but don't want to get the most expensive thing. Also I'm quite tall and thin.

Wetsuit you're really going to have to try on and see what fits you. No piece of dive gear except maybe a mask is more personal of a fit. I do know scubapro tends to be more athletic fitting than hendersons. In a perfect world where everyone had a lot of money, i'd tell everyone to get a custom fit suit, but thats just not practical unless you are the size of shaq or something. Find your biggest local retailer and try on a bunch of suits

Mr.AARP
Apr 20, 2010

I was born after Kurt Cobain died. Now you feel old.



Aquila posted:

What's everyone's favorite cheap diving computer? I've heard alot of recommendations for the Suunto Zoop.

Also what are brands of wetsuits I should be looking at, for California diving (7mm).

Edit: I'm not looking to cheap out on the wetsuit, but don't want to get the most expensive thing. Also I'm quite tall and thin.

Computers at the ~$200 range usually are just what happens to be on special. Mares/Oceanic always have their lowest computers priced around there but if you get lucky you can find something like the Cressi Leonardo which was on special for $180 at leisurepro 2 weeks ago.

As for wetsuits, take a look at the Bare sport 7mm ($270 on scubatoys). I'm the opposite of you (5'7"/stocky build) and found the Bare large short to be the only suit that fit me. In your case, they have tall sizing.

What part of California are you diving? I'm in OC.

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


Just a quick hypothetical question about diving and flights that I was wondering to myself - not even remotely planning to act on it!

Would diving at sea level to altitude diving profiles and TOD's theoretically compensate for a shorter surface interval before flying?

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012


Here's the thing you are forgetting:

You have done a basically infinite time dive to surface level depth.

Since no deco theory deals with infinite dive times, there is no theory to deal with it.

So on one hand what you are saying makes sense. On the other, when the plane has to dump all its fuel to land, and comes after you for the fuel cost, saying "it makes sense" won't keep them from suing you.

And then the whole chamber cost thing.

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


pupdive posted:

Here's the thing you are forgetting:

You have done a basically infinite time dive to surface level depth.

Since no deco theory deals with infinite dive times, there is no theory to deal with it.

So on one hand what you are saying makes sense. On the other, when the plane has to dump all its fuel to land, and comes after you for the fuel cost, saying "it makes sense" won't keep them from suing you.

And then the whole chamber cost thing.

Yeah, I'm not talking real world at all, just purely hypothetical in terms of understanding deco theory!

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



Tomberforce posted:

Just a quick hypothetical question about diving and flights that I was wondering to myself - not even remotely planning to act on it!

Would diving at sea level to altitude diving profiles and TOD's theoretically compensate for a shorter surface interval before flying?

Anything that makes you dive more conservatively and reduces your nitrogen loading will reduce the time till its safe to experience the 8000m I think most airliners are pressurised to. Its a simpe extension of working out your ndl's and I suspect padi's recommendations are very conservative considering how many people's diving takes place on holidays and the cost implication if their recommendations got people bent on planes on a regular basis.

Iconic Racism
Apr 8, 2009


So I got my licence recently and have gone on a couple of dives but I've become bored of going to the same dive location continuously. Is there a list of beginner rated dive spots in Sydney? Most of the lists talk about advanced level spots but I want to get in a few more hours of practise before I get my advanced licence (since I'm still having issues with buoyancy )

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


Sir Winston Beehill posted:

So I got my licence recently and have gone on a couple of dives but I've become bored of going to the same dive location continuously. Is there a list of beginner rated dive spots in Sydney? Most of the lists talk about advanced level spots but I want to get in a few more hours of practise before I get my advanced licence (since I'm still having issues with buoyancy )

You don't need to have perfect buoyancy to do your AOW - in fact a good way to improve on it is to work on it in the course with an instructor there to give you advice. Take time to do a proper buoyancy check - remember that by the end of the dive when your tank has 50 bar in you will be more buoyant than when you start out so compensate for this with a little weight, or do another check at the end of your next dive.

If you've got a local site that you're bored of, go and spend some time there anyway just practising, sorting your weighting and working on your breath control (which really is the key to good buoyancy!).

I don't know anything about Sydney diving - the Abyss site has a few local sites listed? http://www.abyss.com.au/scuba/pc/Sydney-Dive-Sites-c131.htm. If you find yourself in Perth, hit me up and I'll show you some of the local sites here.

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Iconic Racism
Apr 8, 2009


Tomberforce posted:

...and working on your breath control (which really is the key to good buoyancy!).

This is something I'm actively practising when I find myself in a pool. This may be a noob question but something I've noticed is that when I exhale underwater, I float upwards for a second before sinking. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

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