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Gindack
Jan 30, 2010


Have any of you Florida guys dove the Oriskany? Seems like it would be a really cool wreck to dive and I want to know if it would be worth adding to the bucket list.

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Bishop
Aug 15, 2000


Gindack posted:

Have any of you Florida guys dove the Oriskany? Seems like it would be a really cool wreck to dive and I want to know if it would be worth adding to the bucket list.
I'm not very familiar with it but here's my two cents: the problem with that wreck is that they sunk it too deep, on accident I believe. It's hard to get to anything but the control tower within recreational limits. Also it's a really long boat ride out to it. On the other hand, it's a loving aircraft carrier and at least in my mind that makes it worthwhile to dive. I'd have to look it up but I think after a hurricane the flight deck is now at ~150 feet with the tower starting around 80.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 26, 2013

legsarerequired
Dec 31, 2007


College Slice

What are some interesting underwater monuments and seascapes? It looks like you can find coral, shipwrecks and gorgeous fish everywhere, but the pyramids near Okinawa are the most unique diving site I've come across in my online research.

SgtScruffy
Dec 27, 2003

Babies.




Any of you Miami-ish divers - has anyone dived the Atlantis Memorial Reef? I saw it at the National Geographic museum a few months ago, and I'll be in Miami in a few days and I'm trying to dive it - is it as cool as the Nat Geo museum made it out to be, or is it actually lame in person?

(Edit: This could also answer the guy above me's question!)

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


legsarerequired posted:

What are some interesting underwater monuments and seascapes? It looks like you can find coral, shipwrecks and gorgeous fish everywhere, but the pyramids near Okinawa are the most unique diving site I've come across in my online research.

Here's a couple from the chilly end of diving!

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...iw=1241&bih=584


https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...iw=1241&bih=584

crowtribe
Apr 2, 2013

I'm noice, therefore I am.


Grimey Drawer

I've been diving for a year now, a mix of boat and shore dives at home, and lots of drift diving on an overseas trip to Indonesia, and I'm finally looking at picking up a set of my own regs (I have everything else thus far).

I popped in to my new LDS and got a price up on their brand of choice, ScubaPro. They have Mk25, MK17 and MK11 as their first stage options, and then most of the general second stages up to the S600 Technical, however the price for just the first and a single second hovers around $1000.

Now, I know every reasoning why not to skimp on this stuff, but I'm not sure I can justify $1000 for just a first stage and a single second stage, when there's easily just as quality goods available for cheaper.

I did happen to stumble across another, smaller independent retailer in my city that stocks the HOG D1 Cold in a package of:

1- D1 Coldwater First Stage
2- D1 Second Stages
1- 7ft LP hose for the primary
1- 22" LP hose for the secondary
1- Din to Yoke converter
1- Bolt Snap
1- Delrin DIN Cap

For around $550AUD. As we mainly use K-valves (I've literally never even seen a DIN in real life aside from during training) this is fine by me, as long as the converter won't be a too much of a potential point of failure.

So, I guess this post is mostly a question of - where should I be looking, at what particular brands, and what is a reasonable price for life-saving equipment given that I'm in Australia, and does the HOG gear fit those requirements?

I'm going to freeze up from indecision otherwise.

EDIT: I'm unsure if it matters in equipment selection, but I may run it with the long and short the other way around (long to primary, short to occy on necklace) instead of standard.

crowtribe fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Oct 30, 2013

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


This comes up every now and then and the general consensus is that with regulators the benefit to spending more decreases rapidly as you go up in price. Every regulator sold today is going to breathe fairly well and be safe, it has to be. Obviously if you do cold water and need it, then yes, you'll have to spend more money, but beyond that the differences between them are small and you probably won't notice much difference. I'd personally save the $500 and get the HOG setup if you want to buy local. HOG regs are a great value from what I'm told. I almost bought a HOG setup when I had a boat accident and bent my first stage, but I found a refurb scubapro first for like $70 and went that route instead.

Edit: I've also been told to run the long to the primary as well, that way in an emergency the person who needs are can grab your reg straight out of your mouth and your secondary is right below your mouth. I keep meaning to grab a necklace style octo holder.

rockcity fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Oct 31, 2013

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013


For the recreational diver a decent 1st and 2nd stage shouldn't cost you more than 500 bucks. More than that and you're paying for either speciality gear or marketing.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Barnsy posted:

For the recreational diver a decent 1st and 2nd stage shouldn't cost you more than 500 bucks. More than that and you're paying for either speciality gear or marketing.

Pretty much. My regs total 450 and I've put about 1,000 dives on em so far and they work just fine. Keep em clean and tuned and they'll last a hell of a long time.

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013


Crunkjuice posted:

Pretty much. My regs total 450 and I've put about 1,000 dives on em so far and they work just fine. Keep em clean and tuned and they'll last a hell of a long time.

Also keep in mind maintenance can be fairly costly regardless of the price you pay for the initial regulator.

crowtribe
Apr 2, 2013

I'm noice, therefore I am.


Grimey Drawer

I justify the long primary and short occy as negating any possible panic reaction from an OOA diver. Pre-dive brief and buddy check will cover the non-standard set up with a recreational diver.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
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I'm NAUI certified and have done a couple dozen dives (Florida, Hawaii, Guam, Australia), but I don't dive with much regularity. None of my family is certified. I was looking at 3 options to take the family diving during an upcoming Hawaiian vacation and hoping y'all could help.

Option 1: Skip the certs and just do "Beginner Dives".

Option 2: PADI school locally, referral dives in Hawaii

Option 3: SSI school locally, referral dives in Hawaii


Couple questions here- What are we giving up with "beginner dives"? And how much time will the referral cert dives spend wasting valuable bottom time going over basic skills? If we do SSI's school, could a PADI shop do the referral dives and get us temp cards, or would I have to use an SSI shop for that?

I have two options locally with heated indoor pools, PADI and SSI. The PADI shop has a $199 plan + $138 PADI eLearner. Q: can everyone share a single eLearner, or do we need 3 of them? The SSI shop has a $229 special which includes all books; SSI's online stuff is free, I think. Both shops provide free equipment rental for cert dives at the same quarry, with similar costs for the actual dives. I'm a spoiled tropical diver, though- no way in hell I'm diving in a quarry in VA in February! (Though, slim chance we might do it there's a heat wave or something.) I'm leaning towards the SSI shop because of cost, and also because they have a free "try scuba" thing we're probably going to do next weekend to make sure nobody has any hidden phobias.

Also, recommendations for good dive shops in/near Honolulu and Hilo? I'll have a car. I've spoken with Surf 'n Sea and Reef Pirates; leaning towards Reef Pirates, but am open to suggestions. They're both PADI shops, if that matters for SSI cert.

grover fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Nov 1, 2013

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000


rockcity posted:

Edit: I've also been told to run the long to the primary as well, that way in an emergency the person who needs are can grab your reg straight out of your mouth and your secondary is right below your mouth. I keep meaning to grab a necklace style octo holder.
Yeah this is a really good setup IMO. If someone is panicked enough that they grab for your reg they end up getting something that is working. Also if you are in a restriction you can have someone breathing off your primary while swimming behind me, hence why I use the 7ft hose. If for whatever reason your backup is failing you are in a much better position to deal with it before panic sets in. If you dive open circuit in any type of advanced diving I think a primary long hose is by far the best option.

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


grover posted:

I'm NAUI certified and have done a couple dozen dives (Florida, Hawaii, Guam, Australia), but I don't dive with much regularity. None of my family is certified. I was looking at 3 options to take the family diving during an upcoming Hawaiian vacation and hoping y'all could help.

Option 1: Skip the certs and just do "Beginner Dives".

Option 2: PADI school locally, referral dives in Hawaii

Option 3: SSI school locally, referral dives in Hawaii


Couple questions here- What are we giving up with "beginner dives"? And how much time will the referral cert dives spend wasting valuable bottom time going over basic skills? If we do SSI's school, could a PADI shop do the referral dives and get us temp cards, or would I have to use an SSI shop for that?

I have two options locally with heated indoor pools, PADI and SSI. The PADI shop has a $199 plan + $138 PADI eLearner. Q: can everyone share a single eLearner, or do we need 3 of them? The SSI shop has a $229 special which includes all books; SSI's online stuff is free, I think. Both shops provide free equipment rental for cert dives at the same quarry, with similar costs for the actual dives. I'm a spoiled tropical diver, though- no way in hell I'm diving in a quarry in VA in February! (Though, slim chance we might do it there's a heat wave or something.) I'm leaning towards the SSI shop because of cost, and also because they have a free "try scuba" thing we're probably going to do next weekend to make sure nobody has any hidden phobias.

Also, recommendations for good dive shops in/near Honolulu and Hilo? I'll have a car. I've spoken with Surf 'n Sea and Reef Pirates; leaning towards Reef Pirates, but am open to suggestions. They're both PADI shops, if that matters for SSI cert.

I had a great time with Island Divers Hawaii when I was out in Honolulu earlier this year!

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
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I was looking at Island Divers, too, but didn't see referral dives on their price list. How does Island Divers do their dives? Big boat? Little boat? Shore dives?

grover posted:

If we do SSI's school, could a PADI shop do the referral dives and get us temp cards, or would I have to use an SSI shop for that?
The answer to this is apparently "yes"; the PADI shop says they'd give us PADI certification even if we started SSI. I saw some stories of people online taking their paperwork from the PADI referral dives back to the original SSI shop and getting SSI cards, too.


Another Q: I'm NAUI certified basic open water. Could I springboard from that and do advanced open water with PADI without having to start over? Do the big 3 all recognize each other's certifications despite with that respect?

grover fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Nov 3, 2013

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


Generally most diving off Honolulu is by boat if I recall correctly. We did a bunch of really cool wreck dives in great vis.


Yeah you can definately do a PADI AOW as a NAUI diver. You can swop and change as much as you want till you get to the pro levels.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


grover posted:

Another Q: I'm NAUI certified basic open water. Could I springboard from that and do advanced open water with PADI without having to start over? Do the big 3 all recognize each other's certifications despite with that respect?

Yup, thats what i did. All the recreational certs are pretty interchangeable within all certifying agencies. When you jump over to professional diving, things get a little hinky.

Definitely do not do option 1. That is not the correct way to learn to dive. I'm not going to write a lot on it since i'm hilariously hungover, but that is ultimately a disservice to your family if they ever want to dive after this vacation.

You're gonna need 3 separate e-learning codes, since they will each need their own certificate of completion for their certification. E-learning is super awesome outside and is really really well done. The price does kind of suck, but scuba ain't cheap.

I'm not trying to lean you towards PADI, but I wouldn't look at price so much as i would look at the different shops and their staff. Each course/shop will get you through certification just fine, but its HOW they do it and the quality of instruction thats going to be your biggest benefit in the long run. If you get a better vibe from one shop but its more expensive, it may be worth it. If they seem equally well run and one is cheaper then save some cash. Don't let the money thing be the bottom line for you though.

ssi is weird man

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


Bishop posted:

Yeah this is a really good setup IMO. If someone is panicked enough that they grab for your reg they end up getting something that is working. Also if you are in a restriction you can have someone breathing off your primary while swimming behind me, hence why I use the 7ft hose. If for whatever reason your backup is failing you are in a much better position to deal with it before panic sets in. If you dive open circuit in any type of advanced diving I think a primary long hose is by far the best option.

Yeah, you may recall the person who recommended this was my instructor buddy who did our cavern cert. I still haven't done to a long primary, but I definitely want to switch octo holders so that my buddy can just take my primary.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013



Went on a dive on the weekend under Swansea bridge (in NSW). My wife had a rental BCD and about 30 minutes into the dive, one of the integrated weight pouches fell out of her BCD. I was about 3m away and as soon as I saw it slip out I went for it, thinking I'll put it back in and she'll be able to continue. Instead, she surfaced uncontrollably and I lost her. Fortunately it was only 6m deep and there was a DM behind us who made sure she was OK. We surfaced and saw she was on shore and fine and continued for another 15 minutes. But it's been eating at me that if this happened in 20 or 30 metres it could have ended quite badly. I should have gone for her instead and kept her down. Have any of you guys run into something similar? If so, what did you do?

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Unimpressed posted:

Went on a dive on the weekend under Swansea bridge (in NSW). My wife had a rental BCD and about 30 minutes into the dive, one of the integrated weight pouches fell out of her BCD. I was about 3m away and as soon as I saw it slip out I went for it, thinking I'll put it back in and she'll be able to continue. Instead, she surfaced uncontrollably and I lost her. Fortunately it was only 6m deep and there was a DM behind us who made sure she was OK. We surfaced and saw she was on shore and fine and continued for another 15 minutes. But it's been eating at me that if this happened in 20 or 30 metres it could have ended quite badly. I should have gone for her instead and kept her down. Have any of you guys run into something similar? If so, what did you do?

Sorry dude but you made the wrong call. Always go for the diver because at that point, they can NOT stay down without physically holding something. You always grab the diver, stabilize them, and from their make the decision on what to do, with most of the time being an buddy ascent with you controlling buoyancy for the two of you. I'm glad it was a shallow dive and your wife is ok. Next time, make sure to do a very thorough buddy check with her so this doesn't happen again, and if it does, go help the diver.

I run into this poo poo all the time as a divemaster, but mostly in a pool situation. This is also the reason why i dive overweight intentionally when teaching so when i do have to grab a student in an uncontrolled ascent, for whatever reason, i can stop their ascent IMMEDIATELY.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013



Yeah, I know, it was a stupid decision and I'm beating myself up over it. I guess I'm lucky it was a lesson learned in relatively safe circumstances. Hopefully if it ever happens again, my instincts will be better.

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


It's also good to remind her that if she has any air in her BC to immediately grab her dump valve and let that out.

crowtribe
Apr 2, 2013

I'm noice, therefore I am.


Grimey Drawer

In addition to Tomberforce's review of Nusa Lembongan earlier in the thread on page 64:

I also hit up NL earlier this year, however I didn't get to see any Mola Mola. We stayed with Blue Corner, and received a discount based on accommodation and number of dives that made it cheaper. Bit of a party destination on some nights however, which kept them going until 4-5am a few times.

On the other hand though, we did see mantas. It's an incredible sight I won't forget seeing this black shadow gracefully swoop in from the edge of your visibility, in this slow, almost mournful display. It was fantastic!

I dived in boardies and a lavacore or a rash vest on every dive bar the Manta dives, as that area is a bit more exposed and got a bit more of the cold water. Currents were a mix of slow and relaxing, to fast and even a little worrying. Multiple visible thermoclines and the occasional sudden up and down currents, however I managed to control myself well in them, and didn't affect my buoyancy with regards to rising or dropping without noticing. I would definitely be more leery of a newly-certified or unfit diver hitting some of those sites though.

Pro: Warm waters, mantas, relaxing drift and wall dives, plenty of life and coral.

Cons: Boat trip out to Manta point(?) in rough seas, poor German tourists lost their lunches repeatedly both in and out of the water. Got a tiny piece of what I suspect is fire coral in the side of my finger, and hurt like buggery - I can still see the little red dot to this day, a few skin layers deep.

Edit: Oh, yeah. I'm also a Perth, WA local. Bali is cheaper than any other interstate capital or even intrastate destination for us!

crowtribe fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Nov 4, 2013

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


crowtribe posted:

In addition to Tomberforce's review of Nusa Lembongan earlier in the thread on page 64:

I also hit up NL earlier this year, however I didn't get to see any Mola Mola. We stayed with Blue Corner, and received a discount based on accommodation and number of dives that made it cheaper. Bit of a party destination on some nights however, which kept them going until 4-5am a few times.

On the other hand though, we did see mantas. It's an incredible sight I won't forget seeing this black shadow gracefully swoop in from the edge of your visibility, in this slow, almost mournful display. It was fantastic!

I dived in boardies and a lavacore or a rash vest on every dive bar the Manta dives, as that area is a bit more exposed and got a bit more of the cold water. Currents were a mix of slow and relaxing, to fast and even a little worrying. Multiple visible thermoclines and the occasional sudden up and down currents, however I managed to control myself well in them, and didn't affect my buoyancy with regards to rising or dropping without noticing. I would definitely be more leery of a newly-certified or unfit diver hitting some of those sites though.

Pro: Warm waters, mantas, relaxing drift and wall dives, plenty of life and coral.

Cons: Boat trip out to Manta point(?) in rough seas, poor German tourists lost their lunches repeatedly both in and out of the water. Got a tiny piece of what I suspect is fire coral in the side of my finger, and hurt like buggery - I can still see the little red dot to this day, a few skin layers deep.

Edit: Oh, yeah. I'm also a Perth, WA local. Bali is cheaper than any other interstate capital or even intrastate destination for us!

Hey perth buddy :australia:

You should come out diving with us sometime :D

crowtribe
Apr 2, 2013

I'm noice, therefore I am.


Grimey Drawer

Tomberforce posted:

Hey perth buddy :australia:

You should come out diving with us sometime :D

Yes, definitely! I'm picking up a ScubaPro 6.5mm semi dry in the next two weeks (I'm a cold water wuss), but I'm definitely keen to find some dive buddies. Are you SoR/NoR, or which shop so you dive through?

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
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Crunkjuice posted:

Yup, thats what i did. All the recreational certs are pretty interchangeable within all certifying agencies. When you jump over to professional diving, things get a little hinky.

Definitely do not do option 1. That is not the correct way to learn to dive. I'm not going to write a lot on it since i'm hilariously hungover, but that is ultimately a disservice to your family if they ever want to dive after this vacation.

You're gonna need 3 separate e-learning codes, since they will each need their own certificate of completion for their certification. E-learning is super awesome outside and is really really well done. The price does kind of suck, but scuba ain't cheap.

I'm not trying to lean you towards PADI, but I wouldn't look at price so much as i would look at the different shops and their staff. Each course/shop will get you through certification just fine, but its HOW they do it and the quality of instruction thats going to be your biggest benefit in the long run. If you get a better vibe from one shop but its more expensive, it may be worth it. If they seem equally well run and one is cheaper then save some cash. Don't let the money thing be the bottom line for you though.

ssi is weird man
I'm NAUI because my college prof was NAUI and that's how he certified me. Literally EVERY SHOP I've done with since has been PADI, though, it's weird. Both the local shops (PADI & SSI) are supposed to be pretty good.

My main goal here is to do something really really cool with my kids: go scuba diving on a tropical reef. The only reason I'm even considering the "beginner dive" route is cost. If I'm looking at $199x3 for the class, plus $138x3 for e-learning, that's $1000 sunk before we even board the plane. Then at $240/pp for the 4 check dives, plus my rental costs, I'm looking at about $2k for 2 afternoons of diving. Vs about $140ea if we do beginner dives (about $500 total for the 4 of us). In either case, we could snorkel to our heart's content for free on top of that.

Aside from not actually getting certified, what would we be giving up with the beginner dive? We couldn't exceed 40' anyhow because my kids are too young. Is there a lot of wasted training time where we're in the water, but learning to dive vice seeing the reef? Any moreso that for the certification dives? Speaking of which- how much of the certification dives are spent learning/demonstrating skills vice enjoying the reefs? It's been so long since I was certified I honestly can't remember.

grover fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 5, 2013

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


grover posted:

I'm NAUI because my college prof was NAUI and that's how he certified me. Literally EVERY SHOP I've done with since has been PADI, though, it's weird. Both the local shops (PADI & SSI) are supposed to be pretty good.

My main goal here is to do something really really cool with my kids: go scuba diving on a tropical reef. The only reason I'm even considering the "beginner dive" route is cost. If I'm looking at $199x3 for the class, plus $138x3 for e-learning, that's $1000 sunk before we even board the plane. Then at $240/pop for the 4 check dives, plus my rental costs, I'm looking at about $2k for 2 afternoons of diving. Vs about $500 for 1 day if we do beginner dives. In either case, we could snorkel to our heart's content for free on top of that.

Aside from not actually getting certified, what would we be giving up with the beginner dive? We couldn't exceed 40' anyhow because my kids are too young. Is there a lot of wasted training time where we're in the water, but learning to dive vice seeing the reef? Any moreso that for the certification dives? Speaking of which- how much of the certification dives are spent learning/demonstrating skills vice enjoying the reefs? It's been so long since I was certified I honestly can't remember.

Those resort course dives basically go, "here's your gear. Heres what these buttons do, go play in the water for half an hour". There is no real instruction outside of super basic safety issues. They will get you in the water and you'll have a great time, but they do not teach you anything about scuba diving.

When you do your actual certification, the open water portion of your class is spent with the first 10 minutes or so of each dive doing skills, then going on a guided tour by your instructor/DM. In a nice reefy environment, you and your family will get to dive around during those dives, but that time will be split between skills/tours. In my open water classes, we usually get 40 minute dives (only to 25-35 ft), and we try to make as much of that the tour as possible (usually the last 20-30 minutes of each dive depending on how many students/instructors are present), and i'm diving in lovely lake conditions where theres not much to see.

I know price is pretty steep with diving, and it does weigh in to your vacation planning no doubt. With young kids like yours the question is do you want to just get them a diving experience, or get them certified for life? Is there local diving around you, do you guys vacation enough to do a dive trip somewhat regularly? All these things would factor into the cost of this.

The reason I say don't do those excursion dives is because people usually say "oh yeah i know how to scuba dive, I did a great reef dive in Maui!" and then think that gives them a certification. As long as you understand that the diving is just an experience and in no way shape or form training, you've got the right mentality about it and its no big deal.

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000


Unimpressed posted:

My wife had a rental BCD and about 30 minutes into the dive, one of the integrated weight pouches fell out of her BCD. I was about 3m away and as soon as I saw it slip out I went for it, thinking I'll put it back in and she'll be able to continue. Instead, she surfaced uncontrollably and I lost her. Fortunately it was only 6m deep and there was a DM behind us who made sure she was OK. We surfaced and saw she was on shore and fine and continued for another 15 minutes. But it's been eating at me that if this happened in 20 or 30 metres it could have ended quite badly. I should have gone for her instead and kept her down. Have any of you guys run into something similar? If so, what did you do?
This is a nightmare scenario if you were deeper. The "Best" thing to do is grab the person, make sure both of your BCs are deflated, and then figure out a safe and slow way to surface. If you are the person who is in an uncontrolled ascent, constantly exhale like your life depends on it (it does), and empty the air in your BC as much as you can. Also remember that the gas in your BC expands as pressure lessens so you have to keep dumping as you get shallower.

grover posted:

Aside from not actually getting certified, what would we be giving up with the beginner dive? We couldn't exceed 40' anyhow because my kids are too young.
You seem pretty aware that you won't get the training that an actual course gives you, so I'd say go for the resort course if you don't plan on making diving a big hobby. You will be shepherded around some shallow reef but the kids will still think it's awesome. If your kids like it enough they can always do a proper course back home.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Nov 5, 2013

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

Bishop posted:

You seem pretty aware that you won't get the training that an actual course gives you, so I'd say go for the resort course if you don't plan on making diving a big hobby. You will be shepherded around some shallow reef but the kids will still think it's awesome. If your kids like it enough they can always do a proper course back home.
That's a really good point; the local cert dives are pretty cheap, so there's not a lot of penalty to getting certified later. SSI's online training is free and we'll do a "try diving" pool session, so they can at least get basic training, even if not nearly as much as training as we'd get for actual certification. Gonna try to hint around to the grandparents at how awesome a christmas gift it would be to get every certified, though, lol.

I live in VA Beach, and the local diving here sucks. I'm a spoiled tropical reef diver and have no interest in diving in cold water with 12-inch visibility and zero bottom time since the only things worth seeing are wrecks 120' deep. So, chances are that we wouldn't go diving again for several years anyway.

grover fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Nov 6, 2013

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


crowtribe posted:

Yes, definitely! I'm picking up a ScubaPro 6.5mm semi dry in the next two weeks (I'm a cold water wuss), but I'm definitely keen to find some dive buddies. Are you SoR/NoR, or which shop so you dive through?

Ah sweet, I've just ordered a Hollis Semi Dry, should be toasty even though it's actually getting warm now! I live NoR, but dive out of Freo - Dolphin Dive usually, but I've been to most of the others at some point or other.

crowtribe
Apr 2, 2013

I'm noice, therefore I am.


Grimey Drawer

Tomberforce posted:

Ah sweet, I've just ordered a Hollis Semi Dry, should be toasty even though it's actually getting warm now! I live NoR, but dive out of Freo - Dolphin Dive usually, but I've been to most of the others at some point or other.

Well, that's just dandy :c00l: .

That's actually my LDS as well. In fact, if you went on any Sunday club dives, boat dives or went to Bunbury to the MV Lena on the trip Tracy organised between January and ~April, then you most likely know my girlfriend and myself.

Tracy refreshed me earlier this year, and I did my AOW through them, with Gerard (?) instructing.

EDIT FOR CONTENT:

So, what's the deal with twin tanks? I've never seen anyone use them in my short experience, and I don't understand what the point of more air IS if you can't really go beyond NDLs anyway. I thought at first it was maybe for stage diving with different gases, but all the images I see of tech stage rigs appears to just be a single backmount and multiple slung bottles?

Educate me!

crowtribe fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Nov 6, 2013

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


crowtribe posted:

Well, that's just dandy :c00l: .

That's actually my LDS as well. In fact, if you went on any Sunday club dives, boat dives or went to Bunbury to the MV Lena on the trip Tracy organised between January and ~April, then you most likely know my girlfriend and myself.

Tracy refreshed me earlier this year, and I did my AOW through them, with Gerard (?) instructing.

EDIT FOR CONTENT:

So, what's the deal with twin tanks? I've never seen anyone use them in my short experience, and I don't understand what the point of more air IS if you can't really go beyond NDLs anyway. I thought at first it was maybe for stage diving with different gases, but all the images I see of tech stage rigs appears to just be a single backmount and multiple slung bottles?

Educate me!

The doubles on their backs are usually trimix, and their main gas supply. Tec divers obviously ignore NDLs because they are doing decompression diving. The slung bottles are usually their decompression gas, usually 50% and 100% oxygen for their deco stops at whatever depths they do their stops at.

I'll let one of our resident tec divers go more in depth about it.

SuitcasePimp
Feb 26, 2005



grover posted:

That's a really good point; the local cert dives since they're really cheap, so there's not a lot of penalty to getting certified later. SSI's online training is free and we'll do a "try diving" pool session, so they can at least get basic training, even if not nearly as much as training as we'd get for actual certification. Gonna try to hint around to the grandparents at how awesome a christmas gift it would be to get every certified, though, lol.

I live in VA Beach, and the local diving here sucks. I'm a spoiled tropical reef diver and have no interest in diving in cold water with 12-inch visibility and zero bottom time since the only things worth seeing are wrecks 120' deep. So, chances are that we wouldn't go diving again for several years anyway.

FYI, while the diving out of Rudee Inlet is hit and miss most of the year, you can drive 3 hours or so to Moorehead City NC and be diving awesome wrecks in high 70s water with great vis in late summer. Its no Caribbean but you can drive there on a weekend so its better than most of the country I guess. Also they have ridiculous sand tigers.

GrandMaster
Aug 15, 2004
laidback

Just booked a trip to the Philippines in December - going to be diving in Coron, followed by a 4 night/5 day boat expedition through the islands to El Nido where i'll do a couple more dives.

Does anyone have any dive shop or site recommendations? I've heard the diving is incredible so I really can't wait. Unfortunately my wife doesn't dive so I'll probably only be able to squeeze in 3 days diving if I'm lucky - 2 days in Coron and 1 in El Nido. Will be doing heaps of snorkeling on the boat tour though.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.


Oh man I'll be going to Coron in December as well! After that I'll be jumping to Malapascua to see me some Threshers.

Get your lovely lady into a rig and throw 'er in the ocean! She won't drown! (maybe)

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000


crowtribe posted:

So, what's the deal with twin tanks? I've never seen anyone use them in my short experience, and I don't understand what the point of more air IS if you can't really go beyond NDLs anyway. I thought at first it was maybe for stage diving with different gases, but all the images I see of tech stage rigs appears to just be a single backmount and multiple slung bottles?

Educate me!
If you see a dude with doubles and multiple slung bottles, NDLs aren't what he's worried about. He's planning on having to decompress before surfacing. Crunkjuice summed things up pretty well but I'll add a bit. Doubles are nice not only because they hold more gas but they also provide some redundancy. Most people dive manifolded (aka connected so they empty at the same rate) doubles but you run your primary regulator off of one tank and backup reg off another. There is an isolator valve between the tanks so if something goes real wrong you can save half of your "backgass" and get the hell out. I use the term "gas" all the time but that's really just the way I'm conditioned to think about things now because I'm rarely putting air in my doubles unless it's a training dive. What we want is the least amount of nitrogen possible to maximize downtime and minimize deco time. On the flip side oxygen becomes toxic at depth so sometimes we gotta add an inert gas (helium) which is what trimix is. Most people avoid having to use helium if at all possible because poo poo's expensive these days. We analyze our gas personally pre-dive and label it because it's really important not to mess that part up unless you like having seizures.

The slung bottles are almost always high oxygen mixtures that are used to speed up decompression. 50% and 100% oxygen is by far the most common. They are entirely independent of everything else. When you are getting rigged up, you turn them on for a moment so the pressure gauge reads how full they are, then you turn them back off, but leave the pressure in the hoses. This way even a small leak will register pretty quick on the gauge. When you begin your ascent, you deploy your deco gasses as deep as you can without toxxing. for example, most people start on their 50% at 70 feet and 100% at 20. You first deploy the hose, then turn the tank on, then purge it to make sure it's working, then switch over and clip off your primary reg. You make double or triple sure you are switching to the right gas if you have two deco bottles because switching to 100% at 70 feet for example will end very badly for you. For example there is one reg set that I ONLY ever use for 100% and never use it for anything else and it's a completely different color than my other deco reg set. Also my 02 deco bottle is a different color, has "OXYGEN 20" in caps on it, etc. When you see a big sticker with a number on deco tanks or doubles, it means the maximum operating depth of the gas in that tank.

Once you are into deco it's just a matter of holding a reasonablly consistent depth and following your "deco schedule" or whatever people call it and ascend at the correct rate. For instance I might do a gas switch to 50% and 5 minutes at 70ft, 4 at 60, etc then another gas switch at 20ft and just hang loose until I'm cleaned up. I could ramble on for a while but I think that covers the jist of it, feel free to ask more though.

E: I just noticed that your post indicates that most tech rigs you've seen are "single back mounts"? If by that you mean single tank that's really strange because I've never seen that. In that case it could be someone doing regular diving that just likes a little more redundancy and that slung bottle has air or whatever in it. In deco diving it's either doubles or a rebreather, unless maybe you are seeing people with what are called sidemount rigs where the tanks aren't connected, but they hang around your hip area which makes it easier for you to fit through tight spaces. That's bigger in cave diving (which I have pretty limited experience in) than open ocean tech so I can't really talk too much about side-mounting other than that the same basic principles apply, but you have to switch regulators during the dive to keep the tanks at roughly the same levels.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Nov 6, 2013

crowtribe
Apr 2, 2013

I'm noice, therefore I am.


Grimey Drawer

Guess who works in IT and hasn't got much work to do but trawl SA?

Yeah, when I say tec singles, I've only ever seen Google Image Search results of it, and it seems to be split 50/50 singles and doubles - as I dive on shop boats mostly, deco diving isn't common due to their long bottom times for the whole process compared to our/my recreational diving so I don't encounter it in the wild.

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006


crowtribe posted:

Well, that's just dandy :c00l: .

That's actually my LDS as well. In fact, if you went on any Sunday club dives, boat dives or went to Bunbury to the MV Lena on the trip Tracy organised between January and ~April, then you most likely know my girlfriend and myself.

Tracy refreshed me earlier this year, and I did my AOW through them, with Gerard (?) instructing.

EDIT FOR CONTENT:

So, what's the deal with twin tanks? I've never seen anyone use them in my short experience, and I don't understand what the point of more air IS if you can't really go beyond NDLs anyway. I thought at first it was maybe for stage diving with different gases, but all the images I see of tech stage rigs appears to just be a single backmount and multiple slung bottles?

Educate me!

Haha, small world man, I know Trace well! I'm one of the DM's at Dolphin. You may have seen me on the boat or at one of the club dives, though I haven't really been diving much over the winter!

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000


crowtribe posted:

Guess who works in IT and hasn't got much work to do but trawl SA?

Yeah, when I say tec singles, I've only ever seen Google Image Search results of it, and it seems to be split 50/50 singles and doubles - as I dive on shop boats mostly, deco diving isn't common due to their long bottom times for the whole process compared to our/my recreational diving so I don't encounter it in the wild.
To be honest you've kinda stumped me. I've been on quite a few tech boats and I don't think I've ever seen a someone planning on going into deco with a single tank. It's always rebreather (with bailout tanks) or doubles. You can buy steel tanks that hold enough gas to throw you into deco but you lose a lot of redundancy. Possibly they are planning on unclipping their stage and trying to fit through some real tight restriction that doubles are too big for. That happens but normally those people aren't planning on entering deco. Diving can be oddly regional at times so maybe some places out there doing deco with a single tank is more common.

Or maybe, one of their slung bottles or the one on their back is a "travel gas" because their bottom gas has so little 02 that they can't switch to it until they are close to the deepest point of their dive. That's getting pretty far into "gently caress it, I'm going deep" territory though. Even in those cases the bottom gas is normally in doubles because you burn through it pretty quick if you are at 9 atmospheres of pressure. (Hell even at 9 atm most people won't plan on using a travel gas, they just make sure to start sinking pretty quick because you're going to want a mix with like 15-18% 02 in it)

Bishop fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Nov 6, 2013

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Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Bishop posted:

To be honest you've kinda stumped me. I've been on quite a few tech boats and I don't think I've ever seen a someone planning on going into deco with a single tank. It's always rebreather (with bailout tanks) or doubles. You can buy steel tanks that hold enough gas to throw you into deco but you lose a lot of redundancy. Possibly they are planning on unclipping their stage and trying to fit through some real tight restriction that doubles are too big for. That happens but normally those people aren't planning on entering deco. Diving can be oddly regional at times so maybe some places out there doing deco with a single tank is more common.

Or maybe, one of their slung bottles or the one on their back is a "travel gas" because their bottom gas has so little 02 that they can't switch to it until they are close to the deepest point of their dive. That's getting pretty far into "gently caress it, I'm going deep" territory though. Even in those cases the bottom gas is normally in doubles because you burn through it pretty quick if you are at 9 atmospheres of pressure. (Hell even at 9 atm most people won't plan on using a travel gas, they just make sure to start sinking pretty quick because you're going to want a mix with like 15-18% 02 in it)

Couldn't this also be because some dive boats don't allow doubles, so tec divers will just rock a big fat HP steel 130 or something for a deco dive to get around it?

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