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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Spiritus Nox posted:

To be fair, the only attacks in Z1 I can think of that are that obviously better than the Satellite Cannon (particularly with a well-placed MAP attack) are the Seventh Swell and MAP Moonlight Butterfly. It's just that, yeah, it's hard to justify loading down the Cannon with extra baggage when you can throw those out almost whenever you like, especially since by the time you're 3/4 turns in you're likely to have scattered the enemy in a way that a linear attack like the cannon has a really hard time catching more than one or two units at a time. This is excaberated by the fact that removing the squad system means hitting two enemy squares means only two units as opposed to hitting up to six.

Eh, the Satellite Cannon had a high attack damage but was otherwise so wonky there wasn't really a reason to use it when there were far better MAP attacks available. It's just too small for what it is, which is really weird considering the insane sizes of the Seventh Swell or HiMAT Full Burst.

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GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I remember beating Alpha Gaiden and never getting to see the regular Gundam X's Satellite Cannon outside of fixed events,
despite doing the Gundam X routes and always deploying it
. All because the Suparobo Points want you to be constantly on the move and don't let you charge the darn thing in peace. That is how bad it is.

Z1 was a little bit better, but honestly they should just make it a weapon that can be only used once per map (removing the limitation with the G-Falcon) and call it a day instead of trying to be fancy and wrecking an already situational unit.

Also I now have Z2 and, while I do like MNeidengard's translations (I am a bit further than the LP), this is just so much more enjoyable to read and gives the Originals a voice of their own - which is cool.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

ImpAtom posted:

It's just too small for what it is, which is really weird considering the insane sizes of the Seventh Swell or HiMAT Full Burst.

I wish one of the SWR games would let Garrod spin the DX in a circle while he was firing the thing. You'd need to have all your units cast Alert or Grit to survive, but it would be absolutely amazing and actually worth all those limitations.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Isn't there a way to get 4 ammo for the sat cannon with the G Falcon X?

TheBystander
Apr 28, 2011


Honestly, with Gundam X I really wish they'd do some crazy series crossover stuff. It'd never happen, but I'd love to see Garrod power the cannon with Spiral Energy instead. You know that kid is loaded with it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The biggest shame of Turn-A is that I don't think it's ever had Century Color in a Super Robot Wars game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5_bL2Shsgg

CENTURY COLOR! MILLION COLOR!

Bob Smith
Jan 5, 2006
Well Then, What Shall We Start With?

Endorph posted:

The biggest shame of Turn-A is that I don't think it's ever had Century Color in a Super Robot Wars game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5_bL2Shsgg

CENTURY COLOR! MILLION COLOR!

On the other hand I seem to remember in Z1 you could set Black History as BGM for your units, which was better in every way.

Wounded Land
Nov 27, 2007
Living in a greenhouse, growing crops that we can't eat...

Speaking of BGMs, why isn't Satellite Cannon playing when it's used? That was the most interesting part of using the satcannon for me.
I've always gotten the impression that the SRW crew doesn't like X, hence why they don't do very well with it.

TheBystander
Apr 28, 2011


Wounded Land posted:

Speaking of BGMs, why isn't Satellite Cannon playing when it's used? That was the most interesting part of using the satcannon for me.
I've always gotten the impression that the SRW crew doesn't like X, hence why they don't do very well with it.

Yeah, I miss Black History and the Satellite Cannon theme. Honestly, in both Z2.1 and 2.2 there's some strange song absences. I'm not really sure why they were excluded: disc space, perhaps?

On a related note, I love weapon-specific themes. They really make certain attacks feel more powerful and more significant.

Fred is on
Dec 24, 2007

Riders...
IN SPACE!


TheBystander posted:

Yeah, I miss Black History and the Satellite Cannon theme. Honestly, in both Z2.1 and 2.2 there's some strange song absences. I'm not really sure why they were excluded: disc space, perhaps?

All returning series from Z1 only get one song, which makes no difference in most cases, but is kind of weird for units with finisher theme songs. Also for Shinn, who gets saddled with Kira's theme song if I recall correctly.

Semi-related: I really want a future SRW to attempt to adapt the Big O opening again. SRWD did it, and it was a valiant effort, at least. Mostly, though, I just want Big O to be in every big-budget game.

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -


Snot Man posted:

All returning series from Z1 only get one song, which makes no difference in most cases, but is kind of weird for units with finisher theme songs. Also for Shinn, who gets saddled with Kira's theme song if I recall correctly.

Resulting in the saddest exclusion: (finisher song for an as of yet unintroduced series)

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




The things that really totally wrecked the returning Gundams here is the change in systems. Just about everything that Garrod had going for him is more or less gone in this game.

For starters Garrod joined in the X Divider which was a good early-game unit with a post-movement ALL attack making it useful back when you didn't have many of those. The DX also was quite a good gundam in terms of stats and weaponry even aside from the Satellite cannon, in truth the Satellite Cannon was only part of the reason I used the DX. Additionally you got the G-Falcon giving a new Post-Movement ALL attack for the DX as well as boosting mobility and movement, giving an extra missile attack for counters, providing a faster charge time for the Satellite Cannon, and giving you access to a second pilot. Also if you got the G-Bits attack you got a really powerful Non-Satellite Cannon attack and Tifa as a 3rd pilot (with excellent end-game support spirits like Wish). Incidentally does anyone know if Tifa's Newtype levels actually boosted Garrod in Z1?

But as for Z2.1 you've lost most of what Garrod had going for him. Garrod joined very early so he was a good investment in terms of PP and mecha upgrades, ALL attacks and Squads are gone so Garrod's ability to clean out a boss's squadmates or damage enemy squads effectively, and as Garrod doesn't get ramping upgrades what you have is more or less what you get for the game. It's a pity.

As to the Anime the Satellite Cannon is somewhat inconsistent in how fast it was depicted as being able to charge and fire. One of the early episodes of Gundam X has Garrod using the Satellite Cannon is used as a thruster once to escape an on-rushing explosion. However later on one of the villains says that it has a long recharge time and is therefore shocked that the Double X's Twin Satellite Cannon can fire more than one Satellite Cannon shot per charging period because it makes up for that weakness. Incidentally why is that never used in SRW? The DX can fire 3 Twin Satellite Cannon shots off of a full charge with no problems in the anime, but the closest we get to seeing that is in SRW R where if you got all the secrets for it and equipped the G-Falcon it could fire every other turn.

Anyways the Turn A has some of the same issues as the DX. Loran uncovers more and more of the Turn A's weapons over the course of Z1, this means that Loran is also someone you have time to invest in and build up. Also once again the Turn A lost the useful ALL attack property on the chest-mounted beam particle sprayer, but it still remains fairly good unit reflecting the Turn A as it is around halfway through the game. The new Full Power Beam Rifle attack and the Kapool attacks honestly do well for it, though the loss of the Moonlight Butterfly is fairly sad.

As for the rest they're more or less unchanged, but without a Squad System they're competing for slots with units that are more or less better than them in every way that counts. A pity, I got good mileage out of Harry's Sumo and the other Vulture Gundams were good squadmates early on.

TheBystander
Apr 28, 2011



Yeah, this song is exactly why the lack of Z1 songs is a problem. Why is this not in the game?

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

I think you mean this. Kamille's newtype bullshit just isn't the same without the theme. :negative:

Tobias Grant
May 16, 2009

Lucky for you, I'm a dog lover.


In regards to the 3 Shot scene in Gundam X, I believe it was stated that the DX could fire each cannon separately, so it could either shot one massive beam, or two smaller ones. So what Garrod did was fire each cannon once, and then finish by firing both at the same time.

EDIT: I went and re-watched the scene just to be sure, and it looks like he does fire both cannons during all three shots. But I'm pretty sure I remember an earlier scene where they say that the Double X has the ability to fire each cannon individually.

Tobias Grant fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Mar 25, 2013

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



I really don't get why in the world they removed the Squad system. Technical limitations? Could the PSP just not handle it?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Honestly I really dislike squad systems like Z's because they bog down the game at the intermission screen even if you save your squads - when you get new units and items (mostly terrain adaptors) you inevitably want to reshuffle. The sub-order system encourages you to switch characters around and that keeps things fresh, so I'm fine with it.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Except it doesn't. All it does is give you a few extra bucks from your bench-warmers.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Dr Pepper posted:

I really don't get why in the world they removed the Squad system. Technical limitations? Could the PSP just not handle it?
That's the popular theory on the reasoning. Z2 was designed as a Playstation 2 game from the beginning, but then Sony decided to rudely and arbitrarily kill off the console in order to make room for the Playstation 3 (even though the PS2 was a huge financial success and praised by developers), so what was already designed had to be compressed and squeezed into a system engine that could barely handle PS2-level graphics. And then, it gets released at the very end of the PSP's lifecycle (seriously, the Vita--which can sort of handle PS2-level graphics--came out like a couple of months before Z2.2 arrived on the PSP), making the switch to the PSP even more bizarre. And just to add salt to the wound, SRW L came out right before Z2.1 on the DS, and that game HAD a squad system that worked wonderfully, to the point that 2nd Original Generations borrowed design cues from L's Partner System for the revised Twin System for 2nd OGs.

In short, we may never know why the change truly happened, but what is clear is that the flaws in the changes made to Z2's gameplay mechanics (which in turn bleeds over to the playable cast list) are going to become more glaringly obvious as we go on.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

TK-31 posted:

Honestly I really dislike squad systems like Z's because they bog down the game at the intermission screen even if you save your squads - when you get new units and items (mostly terrain adaptors) you inevitably want to reshuffle. The sub-order system encourages you to switch characters around and that keeps things fresh, so I'm fine with it.

So you dislike and like shuffling?

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I'm not sure if it is intended humorously or not, I guess shuffling was the wrong word to use. By shuffling I refer to the busywork of squad management in general, not to changing the composition of your A-team.

Dr Pepper posted:

Except it doesn't. All it does is give you a few extra bucks from your bench-warmers.

The way it is, you can either more or less ignore it, or level up/train the people you would be otherwise benching forever so they will not suck horribly if you do need/choose to send them out every once in a while - pretty useful for route splits and event stages. It is not perfect but it definitely does help in using the B-listers more than not having sub-orders.

edit: It would be a lot better if it didn't forbid you from sending people you just deployed on sub-orders though. If it only prohibited you from deploying someone you just sent out on a sub-order now that would be more interesting.

GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Mar 26, 2013

ActionZero
Jan 22, 2011

I act once more in
imitation of light


Snot Man posted:

Also for Shinn, who gets saddled with Kira's theme song if I recall correctly.
No matter what anyone says, Vestige is Shinn's song not Kira's.

quote:

You grasped your strong fist and smashed it
Wishing for blood to flow from your palm
Forever, these wings and chains will be the same
With this weight I can't go anywhere
That's the first verse and I doubt anyone will disagree that the lyrics fit Shinn a hell of a lot more than they fit Kira. This would have been the BGM when Shinn has his heroic first launch in the Destiny to take on an army of LOGOS mobile suits or something (and it would have been so awesome). Pretty sure that in Z1 Shinn gets Vestige by default once he gets the Destiny while Kira and friends got You Resemble Me.


Sometimes I think about what Destiny could have been and it makes me sad.

ActionZero fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 26, 2013

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



ActionZero posted:

No matter what anyone says, Vestige is Shinn's song not Kira's.

That's the first verse and I doubt anyone will disagree that the lyrics fit Shinn a hell of a lot more than they fit Kira. This would have been the BGM when Shinn has his heroic first launch in the Destiny to take on an army of LOGOS mobile suits or something. Pretty sure that in Z1 Shinn gets Vestige by default once he gets the Destiny while Kira and friends got You Resemble Me.


Sometimes I think about what Destiny could have been and it makes me sad.

Yeah, Shin and Rey got Vestige once they upgraded to Destiny and Legend. Kira and company's theme was Meteor, however - You Resemble Me was just an event theme. That said, you could (and I did) set BGMs in that version. I made a point of sticking You Resemble Me on nearly all my reals through most of the Real Robot finales.

Fred is on
Dec 24, 2007

Riders...
IN SPACE!


ActionZero posted:

No matter what anyone says, Vestige is Shinn's song not Kira's.

That's the first verse and I doubt anyone will disagree that the lyrics fit Shinn a hell of a lot more than they fit Kira. This would have been the BGM when Shinn has his heroic first launch in the Destiny to take on an army of LOGOS mobile suits or something (and it would have been so awesome). Pretty sure that in Z1 Shinn gets Vestige by default once he gets the Destiny while Kira and friends got You Resemble Me.

Sometimes I think about what Destiny could have been and it makes me sad.

Ah, you're right! I misremembered and thought everyone got Meteor in Z2. I didn't use the SEED Destiny units much beyond their introduction.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

Snot Man posted:

Semi-related: I really want a future SRW to attempt to adapt the Big O opening again. SRWD did it, and it was a valiant effort, at least. Mostly, though, I just want Big O to be in every big-budget game.

I've never gotten why they always use Sure Promise for battle music in Z. Sure, it's a great song, but the other version sounds so much more fit for a battle in a game. But yes, Big O in every game forever.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



TwoPair posted:

I've never gotten why they always use Sure Promise for battle music in Z. Sure, it's a great song, but the other version sounds so much more fit for a battle in a game. But yes, Big O in every game forever.
Part of the reason is that Big O's staff got into trouble with the show's opening theme "Big O" sounding way too similar to "Flash Gordon" by Queen (as evidenced in the Bandai Legends re-release of the series removing the song altogether), leaving limited choices for music.

StrifeHira
Nov 7, 2012

I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.

Speaking of tracks that could have been added, really hope Z3 or something brings back this little bit from Turn A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Ywxy5m9zg#t=216s

TheBystander posted:

Honestly, with Gundam X I really wish they'd do some crazy series crossover stuff. It'd never happen, but I'd love to see Garrod power the cannon with Spiral Energy instead. You know that kid is loaded with it.

The day there's a new handheld SRW or something non-"main" with TTGL thrown in, you just know GX, Turn A, and/or Xabungle are all coming along for the ride. Maybe Mazinkaiser SKL too. And wouldn't be too much a stretch to tie DOME/the Black History/TTGL's later plot together.

Wounded Land
Nov 27, 2007
Living in a greenhouse, growing crops that we can't eat...

I'm hoping that they'll do an Impact-style rerelease of Z2 for PS3 that incorporates the Tri System. Or even for PS4 :v:

Son Ryo
Jun 13, 2007
Excuse me, do you know where Saiyans hang out?

StrifeHira posted:

Speaking of tracks that could have been added, really hope Z3 or something brings back this little bit from Turn A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Ywxy5m9zg#t=216s


The day there's a new handheld SRW or something non-"main" with TTGL thrown in, you just know GX, Turn A, and/or Xabungle are all coming along for the ride. Maybe Mazinkaiser SKL too. And wouldn't be too much a stretch to tie DOME/the Black History/TTGL's later plot together.

It's funny you say that because there was just a new handheld SRW announced with TTGL and none of those other series.

It's a shame because I'd really liked to have seen GX done in Neo's system.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE




The ZEUTHers finally get filled in on the whole King of Destruction business. It's pretty clear that the timing of the King and ZEUTH being called in isn't a coincidence, so does that mean they can go home if we beat him? Crowe suggests that the actual person of interest is the man who summoned Gaioh in the first place - Ime Liard. The good news is that if they want to see Ime, they could do no better than sticking with us, since Ime wants Crowe's life. Good for ZEUTH, anyway.



Gainer isn't 100% sold on signing up with GOONZ (some of our own, like Aoyama, can't blame him). But in any case, a few other members of ZEUTH have warped in. It would probably be best to meet up with them and plan from there. Shirota promises them our support in their quest to get home, and surprisingly, so does Holland. He insists that he's just interested in their world. (Gain and Gainer mutter to each other that this Holland reminds them of their Holland a long time ago, back when he refused to accept Renton's and Eureka's relationship and it burned a hole in his stomach.)

Hap guesses that Earth-Z1 only has one moon. Yep, pipes up Garrod, and someone's carved "Renton + Eureka" in gigantic block letters into it. Whoops, someone blabbed! Tifa shuts him up, but both Holland and Renton took notice for sure.



Now that the cat's out of the bag, they explain that yes, it was Renton's gift of love to Eureka, and the pair from this game blush. Renton is motivated to be his double's match, but the revelation has rather confirmed for Holland and Hap that ZEUTH is from "the world we saw on the Tragedy of Doha. Their world. The world we need to be in. We have no hope of survival if we can't make it."



Back in the real plot, the report from Ohtsuka says that the Imperium is making for north America - Britannian territory. Britannia's forces are the most powerful in the world. Does Imperium really plan to take them head on? If anyone can do it, it's them, but whoever wins, the fallout is going to be nasty. Of course, WPC is calling us back in so Chairman Roddick can reform GOONZ in response. The spaceships have picked up their own ZEUTH soldiers we'll be meeting up with, but will they be willing to help? At least ours will be glad to see their buddies again.



With his characteristic tact, Watta asks if the black robot was a member of ZEUTH's happy family too. But they're surprised to even hear Asakim's name, considering he should have been taken out back at their final battle under the orbital elevator. So that's a definite no on the friend thing, but Asakim is more complicated than just a foe. There's more to him than meets the eye...



Meanwhile, our last new friends - Kei Katsuragi and his future-daughter Athena Henderson - have arrived on the Dark Continent. You know the story - they were minding their own business in the bazaar, when a dimension shock opened up, plucked them out, and dropped them here along with their robots.

And the terrain around here isn't in the databases of my Orguss or your Nykick, huh?
Yep, guess we've been warped off to another universe.
Can you be serious for one second? Do you even understand what's happened to us?
Hey, I'm from the same multiworld you are. I know the deal with dimensional quakes.
We've been dropped here and throwing a fit isn't going to change that.
Grr... I still can't believe this irresponsible, immature man is my father!
Hey, don't be like that. I thought you weren't going to worry about that.
I'm just saying, we're not going to get anywhere arguing. Come on.

Kei is hoping to find his partner and Athena's "boyfriend," Orson Verne. He was with them when they were swallowed, so he must have come with them, and he's always good to have around at times like this.



Unfortunately, he finds Asakim first, muttering about how Kei was the "strong scent of Stigma" he's been tracking. Like our current ZEUTH people, Kei and Athena are surprised and none to happy to see Asakim alive and kicking. "I am an Accursed Wanderer," murmurs Asakim. "And now, so are you." What?



Ime shows up to say there's no point in Kei and Athena learning what that means. He introduces himself, but there's no point remembering his name, either. He's not here for them, only for Asakim Douwin, and he supposes Asakim wants to talk to him as well. Asakim gathers that Ime has "awakened," and is aware that he, Asakim, is going to aim to take his life starting now. "False Black Sheep," he addresses Ime, and "Accursed Wanderer," returns the liar.


Chapter 27: Accursed Wanderers
(WPC route)




Asakim summons Shurouga. Ime responds by calling in a pack of DAMons.



Kei and Athena board their robots, and Kei asks if Ime wouldn't mind if they settled things with Asakim before he takes his turn. Ime's afraid he simply hasn't the time, so we're going down with him. Well, that's that. Kei calls a cease-fire with Asakim until the Damons are dealt with. And he's got some questions for him afterwards, if he doesn't mind. "I have all the time in the world," replies Asakim. "But that's also my unending Hell... And to break out of this cage, False Black Sheep, I will reap your soul."



The SR Point is a little interesting and kind of familiar: destroy Rhinodamon MD, who flees after three full turns or if he has time after getting below 5000 HP. Hope reinforcements are coming.


Orguss/Orguss Flier (Kei Katsuragi)
Skills
Fortune
Attack Again
Counter L7
Spirits
Focus
Sense
Accel
Luck
Weapons
(Orguss)
Hit (10 EN)
Missile (8 ammo)
Missile Gun (10 ammo)
Alpha Strike (6 ammo, 110 will)
(Flier)
Missile (8 ammo)
Missile Gun (10 ammo)
Ace Bonus: When adjacent to a female pilot (ally or enemy), deals 1.2x damage.

A little underwhelming, this guy. Now he's just this tiny robot with a bunch of missiles that don't ignore size. In Z1, Kei was an expert at cleaning out squads by raining missiles with his TRI move and alpha strike. I like him, though. He does have the honor of being one of the very few pilots to start out with Attack Again (and an early game pilot in Z1 to boot) which I suppose should help his damage. It does make him burn through ammo like crazy, though.

The most powerful attack Kei had and doesn't anymore is combination attacks with the missing Orson, and also I want to say Athena. This would make me feel better if the penultimate attack he kept was terribly destructive.


Nykick (Athena Henderson)
Skills
Offensive Support L2
Counter L5
Predict
Spirits
Focus
Sense
Weapons
Hit (10 EN)
Missile (10 ammo)
Triple Barrel Shotcannon (16 ammo)
Alpha Strike (6 ammo, 100 Will)
Ace Bonus: Accuracy, Evasion, Critical Rate +10%.

Same deal, and another ace-statted pilot in a second banana robot. The Support will be nice.



Oh, and once again, we have Asakim and Shuroga, and this time we can actually control them... for now.



Here's hoping MD comes to me, because otherwise, shooting it down in three turns will be terribly difficult.

I am the Accursed Wanderer. But I know where to find the key to my salvation.
And this world holds a clue to the Taiji, font of all evil.
I will find... the power to break free of the chains of destiny!




So we'll let Asakim bat the DAMons around a bit while Kei and Athena catch up.



And...





The Bull and Rhinodamons do not move.



Luckily, the WPC and attendent ZEUTH goons (ZEUNS?) are here to lend a hand!

Kei explains that he had no choice but to make a truce with Asakim, and Shirota orders the rest of us to work with him as well - but the ZEUTH pilots don't like it one bit.



Crowe, of course, has his eye on MD.



Let's break up this party, shall we?

(Uncle Orson, I will live to see you again.)
(So please, Orson... be safe!)






You know, in the PS3 game, there is a trophy for this poo poo happening.

It's called "It Happens All The Time."

I did play it cool for Athena, but I've really gotta get back home!
Wait for me, Mimsy! I'll come back in one piece to you and the child inside you!

(by the way, Orguss spoilers?)





See, damage could be better.



But with this much raw power charging in, taking down MD probably won't be too hard.



I am going to ignore the regular DAMons and focus on the elites.



The Bulldamons are finally attacking.



Moving, too.



The Rhinodamons, including MD, move in.



Luckily, MD is only as powerful as when we last saw him - but all of us, especially Crowe, have grown much stronger. He's still pretty strong, so it's going to take something serious to deal over 5000 damage to him at once - probably either a support or Kamina.



It's not likely that Crowe can deal the damage on his own, but he's certainly a good candidate for the second attack in a support teamup. So weakening MD comes first.





Well, actually, many of them can't really reach MD yet, so they can take out the lesser DAMons first. Good for morale.

How've you been, MD? Looks like you waited so long you've gone old and white.
I don't know or care if you're the King of Destruction's champion or something Ime Liard brought in...
But I'm ending this right here, MD! For my promise to Esther, and for myself too!







This looks like a reasonable time to finish him. Anything that damages him further through the D. Fault will likely just make him run anyway.






So there's the SR Point, but far from the end of the stage.



For as Crowe moves in to end Rhinodamon MD's life...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2_amRuliNs

One of the humanoid robots from the Birth of Calamity rushes in to stop him! She introduces herself honorably as Marguerite Pistail, knight of Insaraum, the Seventh Archsabre. She demands that Ime call back MD, because she'll fight us in its place. Ime allows it and warps MD out, but this is interesting - Imperium is using piloted robots now. Other than Arietes, I mean.



Again, the other DAMons aren't terribly important - the only thing I need to do to win is take down Marguerite's Pearlnail.

Speaking of Pearlnail...


Pearlnail (Marguerite Pistail)
Skills
Predict
Offensive Support L3
Chain Attack
Resolve
Spirits
Sense
Spirit
Weapons
Willful Archers (2 ammo, 125 Will, MAP, ignore size)
Valkyria Spinner (10 EN)
Faithful Archers (8 ammo, mobility down)
Bloom In Heaven (20 EN, 110 Will)
Parts
Vernier Unit

Bosses don't have ace bonuses so I don't know why I bother. (Yet.)

I like Pearlnail. I like Marguerite too. I'm not sure I can say much more for now, but keep an eye on her. Pearlnail is a super cool robot, though. Bloom in Heaven is the particular attack she just used, by the way.

This path split is generally about ZEUTH, I guess, but the Marguerite event also marks it as the beginning of the real plot of Z2, the bits about Gaioh and what he brought with him and what the real deal is with the DAMons.



In the meantime, let's just form up, get ready to put the hurt on Marguerite, and let the ongoing skirmish with the DAMons continue. As usual you'll forgive me if I don't include particular detail on their deaths, I hope, since even the stage win condition doesn't really care what happens to them.



I give Marguerite one turn, by the way. This path split still has all the incredibly dangerous dudes - Kouji, Kamina, Ryoma, Takeru...

(This world is my new battlefield.)
(I have already been stripped of my honor and all I was bound to protect. I have nothing left to lose, so let me fall and become a monster.)








Zambot's actually pretty tough.



Hey, I haven't recorded the new guys yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5OuQhE5YgU

Just fire everything at once, Kei and Athena! Kei gets a damage bonus from being next to his daughter, so that's nice.



Lots of the Damons are weak. I'll take some out quickly before focusing on Pearlnail.



Learning Resolve pays off for Gainer.



So that's all the Damons and Bulldamons.



Well, except this one that's been loitering down here, but forget him.




Forget the Rhinodamons too. Too much trouble. Time for Marguerite.





And uh... I guess that Valor was unnecessary huh.

That really hurt, you know.
You survived! You stubborn oaf!
Sorry about that. I've got too much money on the line to die here.
Money?! Is that why you fight?
That's about the size of it. I'm not proud of that, but there it is.
You... why must my opponent be such a cur?
Look, I don't know what I did to offend you, but don't forget this is a battlefield! And I don't go easy on women!
Silence! By the pride of an Archsabre, I will not be bested by a wretch like you!









But she is, of course.



Crowe scores the loot.



Marguerite bails.



Ime decides to pack up too. An extraneous factor messed up his plans. (Kei, Asakim, or Marguerite?) Crowe has a bone to pick with him, but Ime repeats that he no longer has any reason to care about Crowe. Besides...



"I'm quite busy just keeping myself alive, thank you. So formidable a foe is he." Ime ditches, but Asakim will chase him to the ends of the earth.



Eventually. Crowe has questions for him, too, but Asakim just smiles cryptically. "Do you really want to ask them while you're wavering between your fears and your regrets?" Huh... "I will await your awakening, Wavering Scales. But for now, I must go. The False Black Sheep is my current prey."

Well now. The time to explain what that was about will be coming soon, but for now, if you haven't played Z1, just know that the protagonists of that game were the Scarred Lion and the Sorrowful Maiden - though they didn't know what that meant at first either.



ZEUTH explains to Kei that we need Ime, somehow, to get them home. And getting to him is going to be harder now that he seems to have lost interest in Crowe. But now Asakim is in the game, and whatever connects him to Ime passes through Crowe as well. Gain has his own theory...



But back on topic, Chairman Roddick is regrouping GOONZ, and like the others, Kei's willing to stick around long enough to meet the other side's ZEUTH. They never did find Orson, but the U. N. is keeping track of ZEUTH, and if they find him, they'll let us all know.

Still, Asakim. Kei admits he had a few words with him, but as usual, Asakim spent the whole time speaking in riddles. The only thing that made even a lick of sense was the weirdest part - that they, Kei and Athena, are Accursed Wanderers now just like him. It doesn't sound good, whatever it means, but it doesn't sound like any answers will be forthcoming except from the man himself. And how are we going to track both Asakim and Ime, both slippery enough assholes on their own?



Crowe seems like he's bitter about losing MD yet again, but he's actually curious about Marguerite. Not like that - Crowe is still a gynophobe - but it definitely looked like she was protecting MD. And what did she call herself, an Archsabre of Insaraum? Must be the universe she's from, or at least whatever country she's from in her universe, but like everything else, it's a mess of unanswered questions. And again, the best way to answer those questions is to take on the Imperium and get answers personally.

"There you have it, Chief, Esther," mutters Crowe. "Wiping out the DAMons turned out to be a lot bigger a job than we thought. If I pull this off, I'd better get a hell of a bonus..."



Elgan orders Ohtsuka to have the Dark Continent team rendezvous with the space team in Europe. The Imperium may be moving on North America, but that's exactly why the Chairman wants us away from them - he's invited the Imperium to talk things out and he doesn't want to give them an excuse to go on the offensive. They have to be very careful with GOONZ.

Speaking of which, Ohtsuka is also not to invite ZEUTH into GOONZ. In fact, he's not even to mention it. It's their decision, and "we may not take away their freedom to choose." Ohtsuka defers to his judgment and wishes him luck at his summit.



With Ohtsuka offline, Elgan is talking to himself again. "If ZEUTH has been transported here, it must been due to... so he's coming."



In fact, he's already here. Elgan knows all about Asakim, which makes the latter suspect that he's yet another Accursed Wanderer. Accursed? Perhaps, suppose Elgan, but...

He's interrupted by a call. Gundams have attacked the Overflag base!



Eifman seems to have figured out what makes the Gundams tick - why there are only a few of them, why it's taken this long for them to show up. It seems that the only place to produce the reactors is Jupiter, and the only chance anyone had to do it is 120 years ago on the manned exploration mission out there. "But if that's true, that means Aeolia Schenberg's true goal was..."



No time to theorize though, because the Gundams have caught up to him! They're none of ours, though, that's for sure.



Mihael sweeps up the opposition...







Giving Johan and Nena time to hook their robots up and blast the base, killing the Professor.



The Trinities gloat about how no one can match them, especially not the sucky Celestial Being Gundams that are being dragged around with GOONZ. They don't even need the R-Daigun's help anymore, do they?



The Overflag mains return to the base too late.



Johan orders a retreat, since they're done here, but Mihael wants to stay and play some more. In a rage, Graham leads his subordinates in a charge,



but Mihael slips out from his grasp and destroys Howard's robot.




His bloodlust sated, he joins his siblings as they vanish under the cover of the second one's stealth field.



Angry as he is, Graham knows it would be a waste to go after them now. He's already lost Howard and Eifman to the Gundams, but he won't forget what they did any time soon...



Alejandro and Ribbons have heard the news, and they know that Britannia will have no choice to mobilize their Knightmares - otherwise, the Imperium won't be able to pass up the hole in their defense. Although if that happened, wouldn't it be nice if the Imperium could raze the east coast and Elgan Roddick with it?

Alejandro isn't too worried about the Imperium coming for him. Schneizel has something going on in Cambodia that can take them out on a whim, and he's got his own iron in the fire up on the Orbital Ring. Basically, the Imperium is barely a threat to him, but potentially a great asset if he moves his pieces right. It's all to guide the world on the path he's drawn for them. But for now, he's content to just sit back and watch the talks between Elgan and Imperium.



Up next: Space Route. It has some of my favorite ZEUTH guys, so I hope you're looking forward to it.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I find the 'Accursed Wanderers' reveal a bit worrying because it implies everyone from both ZEUTH and ZEXIS GOONZ will have to show up in the eventual Z3, and that's going to be the most bloated cast list this side of Operation Extend. With that said, it is nice to see the real plot begin, I knew about the Imperium's Originals from hearsay and I was surprised that the original plot seemed to be about the Limonecia crew instead until a few stages ago.

Poor Kei though, he's one of those returners who got strictly downgraded out of being carried over to Z2. He did not have a combination attack with Athena in Z1 (though he did have a special TRI attack with Orson and her) but giving him one here was the least they could do. And to think he was both an amazing grunt squad wiper and boss killer in Z1, oh how the mighty have fallen.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


Ah, we finally get the Imperium story going: some of my favorite villains of recent SRWs (and having some awesome BGMs, to boot).


I like Marguerite's BGM as much as I like Aim's...there is one other villain BGM that is my absolute favorite, though.



As for Kei, I'm gonna join the chorus of sad people that had in Kei one of my top aces in Z1 (in fact, he only lost to Awesome Renton in kill counts).
I do like his BGM, though: a cool byproduct of US/Japan relations via Casey Rankin!

Wounded Land
Nov 27, 2007
Living in a greenhouse, growing crops that we can't eat...

Man, Marguerite's cut-in is embarrassing as hell.
Also, why do you call the "fire everything" attacks "Alpha Strike"?

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


Wounded Land posted:

Man, Marguerite's cut-in is embarrassing as hell.
Also, why do you call the "fire everything" attacks "Alpha Strike"?

Because I've always heard it as an expression meaning you shoot everything you have at the enemy? It seemed like a better thing to put on the attack list than just the word "volley" or something silly like "all the guns."

I agree about Marguerite, though. She's this totally badass tragic knight with a cool arc I'm not going to dig into right now. It's pretty sad to see her reduced to boinging.

Caphi fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Apr 3, 2013

Daler Mehndi
Apr 10, 2005

Tunak Tunak Tun!


Caphi posted:

(by the way, Orguss spoilers?)

Yes, well, kind of, but it's hard to play Z1 and Z2 without having Orguss spoiled. I've only watched a few episodes of Orguss but I have a vague idea of what's going to happen already.

Daler Mehndi fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Apr 3, 2013

Materant
Jul 22, 2010

see, what you don't understand is he now has

THE MANLIEST MUSTACHE

it defies physics



Daler Mehndi posted:

Yes, well, kind of, but it's hard to play Z1 and Z2 without having Orguss spoiled. I've only watched a few episodes of Orguss but I have a vague idea of what's going to happen already.

The same could be said of any anime in this game. This is probably not a good game series to follow if you care about remaining unspoiled.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




TK-31 posted:

Poor Kei though, he's one of those returners who got strictly downgraded out of being carried over to Z2. He did not have a combination attack with Athena in Z1 (though he did have a special TRI attack with Orson and her) but giving him one here was the least they could do. And to think he was both an amazing grunt squad wiper and boss killer in Z1, oh how the mighty have fallen.

To be more specific about that TRI attack Kei, Orson, and Athena was one of the game's special special TRI attacks that had its own attack dialogue. Also it's one of the Special TRI attacks that actually got a power boost (by 300 points) to using it making a squad of all 3 of them pretty good. Many of the Squad attacks that were added to the ZEUTH characters are based on the special TRI attacks: the Gauli Squad attack was one though that had to be initiated by Gauli in Z1 for the bonus, another was the Militia attack with Loran though that didn't have bonus power, and another was basically any permutation of Xabungle's sandrat pilots.

Also the big thing that the Orguss lost that really hurt it was Kei's Squad Leader ability. Kei had a 20% damage bonus against enemy male pilots but took a 20% Penalty to female pilots. This was a very nice thing since generic giant robot pilots when they have a gender at all are usually guys. That coupled with his inherent continuous attack, a nice Post-Movement ALL attack via Itano circus, and later on the Orguss Combination meant that Kei could do some really hefty damage. The Nikick meanwhile wasn't really good except as squad filler.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Wounded Land posted:

Man, Marguerite's cut-in is embarrassing as hell.
Japan had a field day when that cut-in showed up in one of the Z2.1 PVs. And yes, I mean all forms of the term "field day".

Alas, poor Kei. You were a tiny-sized death machine in Z1, murdering everything left and right, and almost comparable to Chirico in this game (Chirico has a few more broken stats that put him above Kei, IMO). And now....you're reduced to sub-par at best and "super-glued and welded to the bench" at worst. Even with the addition of Chain Actions, Kei still has to be trained up to come close to his Z1 status. If anything, Kei is one of the returning characters that suffers the most due to the system changes, right alongside Garrod and Renton (okay, Renton technically isn't a returning character, but my point still stands).

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


INTERIM UPDATE

So I said I'd lost my save at chapter 23, but I had one at chapter 18, right? So I'm playing those five chapters again, rushing, just to be able to produce a couple of files for the space and Area 11 branches. Now, here I was thinking "no one will notice any difference. Maybe some levels and kill counts will be different or something, and no one will see. And we'll pick up after WPC chapter 24, right where we just left off."

Well, I forgot about how terrible chapter 20 is (that's the desert one with all the bosses), and when I got there, I decided to keep rushing and not care about the SR Point. So I'll be short one.

You can all be ashamed of me now.

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TheBystander
Apr 28, 2011


Caphi posted:

INTERIM UPDATE

So I said I'd lost my save at chapter 23, but I had one at chapter 18, right? So I'm playing those five chapters again, rushing, just to be able to produce a couple of files for the space and Area 11 branches. Now, here I was thinking "no one will notice any difference. Maybe some levels and kill counts will be different or something, and no one will see. And we'll pick up after WPC chapter 24, right where we just left off."

Well, I forgot about how terrible chapter 20 is (that's the desert one with all the bosses), and when I got there, I decided to keep rushing and not care about the SR Point. So I'll be short one.

You can all be ashamed of me now.

The horror!

Yeah, I don't think it's a concern, especially since SR Points aren't especially important in this game: I don't think any of the secrets have an SR requirement.

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