Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

Ow my rear end. These floors better be warm.

They will be. You're doing this so much better than can possibly be done (without breaking the laws of physics) by forced air or radiant.

You already know you won't be able to change temps quickly. This is a consistent temp permanent home kinda setup, which is the best you can build right now for what you are going for.

It would be a poor choice for a hunting cabin (as a sole heat source) or something like that, but if you want to keep your house at temp continuously, and use a lower temp/less fuel and still be comfortable.....this is the poo poo.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!



Beach Bum posted:

The evil little man in my head is hoping this makes him twitch :sun:

Unfortunately, the intuitive physics answer is it doesn't matter, since the water is flowing in a closed loop.

Although warm water might seek out the high spots.

Of course, given any sort of flow, that won't matter a whole lot.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Safety Dance posted:

Unfortunately, the intuitive physics answer is it doesn't matter, since the water is flowing in a closed loop.

I'm not talking about whatever "intuitive physics answer" you think gets cancelled out by flowing water.

I'm talking about simple physics of heating a whole bunch of massive surface area in the lowest part of a room, which makes the entire room feel warmer based on my intuitive feet reaction when I'm walking on a floor with radiant heat as compared to a room with forced air or hydronic baseboard/radiator that are heating much less surface area of any real mass.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!



Motronic posted:

I'm not talking about whatever "intuitive physics answer" you think gets cancelled out by flowing water.

I'm talking about simple physics of heating a whole bunch of massive surface area in the lowest part of a room, which makes the entire room feel warmer based on my intuitive feet reaction when I'm walking on a floor with radiant heat as compared to a room with forced air or hydronic baseboard/radiator that are heating much less surface area of any real mass.

Okay, neat. I was responding to Crotch Fruit and Beach Bum.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Welp, that's what I get for not fully caffeinating before posting.

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

The one thing that bothers me about radiant is actually the warm feet thing. It's creepy, like walking on a huge animal. Uncarpeted sections are even weirder, like a floor of feverish skin. It makes upholstered furniture warm inside too, which is weird for the same odd reasons.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Zhentar posted:

Sorry, I worded that poorly; wasn't trying to suggest you switch to below floor. I was trying to say, have you done the math to see if you need the capacity of the higher quality thermofin plates? It very likely makes sense to get them for the below floor room, but the lovely brake bent plates may well be adequate for the above floor installs and would save you quite a bit if they are.

Oh, my mistake. This is where I have absolutely no idea what the answer is.

Crotch Fruit, it doesn't matter because the squirrels in the walls will be retasked to help pump the water back uphill :colbert:

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints



Motronic posted:

I'm not talking about whatever "intuitive physics answer" you think gets cancelled out by flowing water.

I'm talking about simple physics of heating a whole bunch of massive surface area in the lowest part of a room, which makes the entire room feel warmer based on my intuitive feet reaction when I'm walking on a floor with radiant heat as compared to a room with forced air or hydronic baseboard/radiator that are heating much less surface area of any real mass.

Thats where you just put a big thunking slow combustion stove on a stone hearth set directly onto your massive concrete slab and burn half a forest and get that 84 cubic meter slab up to temp as a MASSIVE thermal mass!

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Got almost nothing done last weekend on account of it being into the negatives for most of it, valentines day, and snowing sideways. However, NEW FEATURE: The bathroom sink is now installed and functional. We might be the only people in town whose plumbing got more functional Sunday instead of less, Home Depot was having a great day selling pipe warming tapes. I would have bought some but every water pipe in the house plus the drain traps and water meter are already wrapped in it and insulated. -15F in the basement and the first 10 seconds of flow from the cold tap is lukewarm, suck it cold-weather amateurs :smug:

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!



Is pipe warming tape manually switched, or do you have it on a thermostat, or what? I've always been curious.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Combination. IIRC most of the ones I own have a built-in thermostat in the cord that only turns them on below about 50 degrees, but I tend to unplug them all over the course of spring/summer/fall to run power tools off the outlets and extension cords they run on right now, and have to do a sweep through the basement at the end of fall to make sure they're all plugged in again. I bought the materials to put a dedicated heat-tape circuit in with an outlet everywhere one needs to be plugged in, but have had more important things to fix so it hasn't happened yet. I'll probably leave them all in place even after installing the furnace, since it's just one more level of protection against a pipe freeze if we leave for a month or two or something and the furnace has a problem or I shut the gas off for safety. And it's not like I can return them at this point either so there's really no loss in keeping them there.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


So I made some progress! And forgot to post it.

First - all the comms conduit and boxes are installed in the master bedroom except for the wall facing the hallway. I've got two 4 11/16" boxes on the east wall (one on either side of the window) and one each on the north and south walls. There will also be a box for a thermostat and a box for comms stuff on the west wall but I've not bothered to do it yet since I can do it after the ceiling furring strips are hung - which is the only reason I was in such a hurry to do the rest, since I have to do the furring strips, then the new oak rafter ties, then all the permanent wiring, then the vapor barrier and insulation.

Here's some of the conduit, not my best work but certainly not the worst I've ever seen either:


Still need to run a 1/2 and two 3/4 PVC conduit runs out the eaves for exterior lighting, comms, and power before I move along with the furring strips and such.

Then I changed my focus to the kitchen, since we had a beautiful warmish weekend that wasn't snowing sideways. It was about 75% gutted but the last bit had been bothering me for some time. So out came the wrecking bars and a short while later, the ceiling and walls were all on the floor:


Spent some time dragging the remainder of the bagged debris from the living room (which was still sitting in the kitchen since it didn't fit in the last Bagster I had taken away) up the hill along with all the unbagged debris here. It was nice to be able to shovel debris right out a door into a wheelbarrow instead of bagging it and carrying it outside to the wheelbarrow. Long story short, the kitchen is now 100% demolished and emptied of debris. I also temporarily set up the dishwasher in one corner and figured out what was wrong with it (it came with the house and this was the first time I've seen it run - all it needs is about 50 bucks in door seals and some dents pounded out of it) then ran a bunch of bleach through it, so we don't have to handwash dishes anymore.

Then I got a wild hair up my rear end and decided it was time to open a new can of wormsredo the kitchen subflooring, which has been on the todo list for quite some time:

Whoops, now you have to be able to fly to get to the bathroom. So it's got some temporary plywood scaffolding over the hole as I ran out of time.

As usual there are multiple layers to tear up. Old subflooring, old floorboards, and 3/4 plywood + linoleum that some fuckwad threw right down over the old flooring instead of tearing it up properly. The plywood makes things interesting since it comes up in gigantic sheets, but at least they used little 1.5-2" nails instead of decking screws or something so it comes up fast.

New subflooring shall continue tonight or tomorrow night. As soon as the subflooring is mostly done in there we can start planning and building the new kitchen, I can't wait.

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



I still find it hard to believe that you found a girlfriend, that when walking into your hell-hole house for the first time, would go "Ooo can I help?" instead of just running away screaming. You loving won the lottery. Grats.

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

Well, you remember back when he had what he thought were raccoons in the ceiling?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


rndmnmbr posted:

I still find it hard to believe that you found a girlfriend, that when walking into your hell-hole house for the first time, would go "Ooo can I help?" instead of just running away screaming. You loving won the lottery. Grats.

I know right? I'd given up entirely on dating until I finished the house, and then accidentally met The One. She's one in a trillion and every day I wake up wondering how the hell I got so lucky.

apatite
Dec 2, 2006

Got yer back, Jack



kastein posted:

I know right? I'd given up entirely on dating until I finished the house, and then accidentally met The One. She's one in a trillion and every day I wake up wondering how the hell I got so lucky.

:rock: :rock: :rock:

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004


Off topic, but: Apetit, where are you posting pics of your backwoods shenanigans now? You closed the thread, didn't leave a referral thread or anything.

And yes, I call you Apetit in my head.

apatite
Dec 2, 2006

Got yer back, Jack



Spermy Smurf posted:

Off topic, but: Apetit, where are you posting pics of your backwoods shenanigans now? You closed the thread, didn't leave a referral thread or anything.

And yes, I call you Apetit in my head.

At the moment nowhere, not sure where the best place for a new thread is or if a new thread is the right answer or just post individual projects in appropriate threads here. I mean we DID retreat to the wilderness and have been there 3 years, the thread served its purpose in my opinion.

Basically I was too lazy to keep the thread updated and being more or less a hermit it started to feel like being a cam whore or something, almost 200k views but only 1k replies is some voyeur poo poo for sure.

My wife yelled at me for closing it and editing out bunches of stuff, if that makes you feel better. She said I was letting down the folks that were following

Props to kastein for remembering to take pictures of relevant stuff and posting them

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I've still got a hell of a long way to go before my place is as "finished" (ha, no house is ever finished) as yours. So it's a little easier for me to remember to take pictures, I think.

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints



kastein posted:

I've still got a hell of a long way to go before my place is as "finished" (ha, no house is ever finished) as yours. So it's a little easier for me to remember to take pictures, I think.

Haha- Your not wrong there... mine a 1yr old brand new built home and ive already got holes in the ceiling that i havent gotten around to patching yet!

Jeherrin
Jun 7, 2012


kastein posted:

I know right? I'd given up entirely on dating until I finished the house, and then accidentally met The One. She's one in a trillion and every day I wake up wondering how the hell I got so lucky.

You have found the Unicorn.

(I also found one; when dithering on the dilemma of 'do I find out what's behind this hollow bit of way, or do I save myself hell in refinishing and replastering,' she's the one handing me the wrecking bar.)

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







apatite posted:

Basically I was too lazy to keep the thread updated and being more or less a hermit it started to feel like being a cam whore or something, almost 200k views but only 1k replies is some voyeur poo poo for sure.

My wife yelled at me for closing it and editing out bunches of stuff, if that makes you feel better. She said I was letting down the folks that were following

I read your thread a lot. I can understand why you closed it, that's your call, but I was disappointed when I realized you don't have PMs so I couldn't send you a message thanking you for sharing as much as you did. So thanks, man, it was cool and in some ways inspiring.

You are always going to get far more views than replies. Every time someone reads the next three posts in the thread is a view, but most of the time people aren't gonna have anything particular to add. It is what it is.

Apologies to Kastein for subverting his house thread. Thanks for posting updates constantly, kastein, they're always interesting even if I usually don't have any questions or comments.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


No problem, and I was also an avid reader of apatite's thread :D

Not much has happened on the house front. Well. I guess some has happened, I finished updating the labeling on the master breaker panel, labeled all the switchgear, and even labeled the future positions for the breakers for the first floor and kitchen. Can you tell I found my label printer recently? LABEL ALL THE THINGS

Also started and finished the plumbing for the second showerhead. Totally worth it.
First I plumbed the poo poo out of some things:

Total joint count: 36 sweat solder, 5 1/2" NPT.
Zero sweat solder joints leaked.

Three of the five 1/2" NPT joints leaked!

Pictured: a leaking motherfucker rear end in a top hat piece of poo poo pipe thread

I even sweated the pipe into the adapter and cooled it before taping and tightening, then wrapped a wet rag around the pipe stub between the threaded portion and the next sweat joint. There was no reason for this to happen. Pretty sure the threads were malformed, they didn't screw on very smoothly and were the first NPT threads I've had actual issues with. So I ripped the leaking ones out and sweated the pipe directly to the mixing valve housing, as the ports were designed to be sweated or threaded and I only realized after a plumber friend of mine told me to check for that. This added 6 more sweated joints and none of them leaked either. I like sweat soldering.

Once that was done, I could get back to subflooring work in the kitchen:


One piece down. Way more left to do though... now that the weather is shaping up, I should have more motivation to leave the heated bedroom.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


God loving damnit imgur your mobile app is the biggest turd pile. Those images were 100% uploaded, they were there when I posted. Then the loving app kept a progress bar open on my phone for 6 hours (even though the images uploaded in a few minutes) and loving deleted them when I hit the cancel button to make it go away.

loving software devs are worse than hitler, will fix in a bit

apatite
Dec 2, 2006

Got yer back, Jack



Keep up the good work man, you are awesome and have really come a long ways with this place.

Is spring hitting you yet? We are finally getting some tastes and it sure is sweet

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


yeah, it was in the 70s yesterday and I don't even have the heat on in the bedroom/bathroom atm. Spring is here! :woop:

Magnus Praeda
Jul 18, 2003
The largess in the land.

kastein posted:

God loving damnit imgur your mobile app is the biggest turd pile. Those images were 100% uploaded, they were there when I posted. Then the loving app kept a progress bar open on my phone for 6 hours (even though the images uploaded in a few minutes) and loving deleted them when I hit the cancel button to make it go away.

loving software devs are worse than hitler, will fix in a bit

It's not just the imgur app. I'm pretty sure their servers are powered by some gerbils.

I've always found sweating joints kinda zen. There's something supremely satisfying seeing the solder just wick around while the flux bubbles.

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself





kastein posted:

Spring is here! :woop:

Quoting for when we get poo poo on in the next month or so.

Dragyn
Jan 23, 2007

Please Sam, don't use the word 'acumen' again.


kastein posted:

Spring is here! :woop:

And so the New England DIY goons start again! Been working this week on the garage again too. It's been too long since I got to demo something.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Got frustrated trying to fix my truck yesterday and ripped up another section of flooring. Currently a huge hole in the kitchen floor, life goes on.

shortspecialbus
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!




kastein posted:

Got frustrated trying to fix my truck yesterday and ripped up another section of flooring. Currently a huge hole in the kitchen floor, life goes on.

It must be really cathartic to get pissed off about something and be able to constructively go bash a huge loving hole into something.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Kinda, but it's more like neutering an elephant - you have to be fairly careful even while dealing with something very large. At this point almost all of the smash-n-bash demolition is done and everything I have to tear out is attached directly to something I need to keep in good shape. For instance pulling the floor up, I have to not bash the gently caress out of the joists, and preferably even manage to pull the (very brittle, lovely old steel) nails out of the joists instead of breaking them off flush with the surface. So I have to choose the spot to rest the wrecking bar on very carefully when prying or it'll take chunks off of the corners of the joists.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



man you're doing it all wrong. for nails first what you do is you get one of those comically large ACME magnets from the cartoons. then,

Beach Bum
Jan 13, 2010


Now I'm wondering how much magnetism you would need to pull nails out of wood. Also I need to know just what kind of effect this would have on the surrounding area. How powerful can you make a magnet before it starts scrambling the human nervous system? How far away would you have to put your hard drives?

Quick google of 'magnetism nervous system' just filled up my search results with all those magnetic bracelets uuuuugh...

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Beach Bum posted:

Now I'm wondering how much magnetism you would need to pull nails out of wood. Also I need to know just what kind of effect this would have on the surrounding area. How powerful can you make a magnet before it starts scrambling the human nervous system? How far away would you have to put your hard drives?

Quick google of 'magnetism nervous system' just filled up my search results with all those magnetic bracelets uuuuugh...

Considering that MRI machines are known for being ridiculously powerful in terms of yanking metal around, and yet humans get inserted directly into them and routinely work near them (nurses), I don't think stationary magnetic fields are a huge problem for people. As long as they don't have any magnetizable material in them, anyway.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







I am totally unprepared to do the math, but I suspect that an electromagnet powerful enough to extract nails consistently would be larger than your kitchen doorways, and cost like a hundred grand.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






Leperflesh posted:

I am totally unprepared to do the math, but I suspect that an electromagnet powerful enough to extract nails consistently would be larger than your kitchen doorways, and cost like a hundred grand.

And if they were electromagnets, you'd need one hell of an electric service pulled into your house!

Sir, please explain to us why you need a 2000a 480v service pulled into your single family home....

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Leperflesh posted:

I am totally unprepared to do the math, but I suspect that an electromagnet powerful enough to extract nails consistently would be larger than your kitchen doorways, and cost like a hundred grand.

I got curious, and this page says that a 16d box nail in a Douglas fir 2x4 has 33 pounds of pullout force. That's a fairly large amount, certainly, but you should be able to achieve that much force using a (moderately large) rare earth magnet. Of course, since rare earth magnets can't be switched off, you'd then be left with the problem of how to remove your nail from your magnet...

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Experimentally it's around that much for a brand new, shiny, uncoated 16d nail in a brand new Home Depot 2x4, but for square/flat nails pounded into oldgrowth wet (not kiln dried) spruce in 1890, dried into them for a century, and then repeatedly wetted and redried, rusting them into the now-dry wood, experience says it's more like... hmmm.

I'd say I apply about 20lb to the crowbar 3 feet out, and have a lever arm of about 3". So ~240 pounds or more pullout force. I can believe that, especially since I end up ripping the heads off the nails or breaking them in half occasionally since the metal is fairly brittle.

Also it's a good thing you're talking to me about this not my dad and some of his siblings because I bet they think MRI machines rip out your soul and make your chakras dizzy if they don't <insert pseudoscientific new age babble about magnetic fields and frequencies causing cancer.>

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any. :(



I highly doubt that any nail has enough mass that any magnet would actually remove it from wood.

No 16d nail will be pulled out by a magnet, it will just magnetically saturate and nothing will happen. There's essentially a "maximum stick" for any object, and adding more magnetic force doesn't change anything.

A gigantic electromagnet could probably burn the nail out, though.

Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Mar 17, 2016

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply