Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



kastein posted:

I got it for free needing a new motor.

Does it now have a 4.0?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Nah, it's already nearly too tall as-is and a 4.0L would make it decidedly top heavy :v:

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius


kastein posted:

Because 2" black steel pipe at HD is $9 a foot cut to length or $36 for 10ft lengths :sigh:

Fittings aren't cheap either. I think I paid 11 apiece for tees and like 8 or 9 for 90 degree elbows.

I think I'm going to have more into the piping than I do into the compressor, but that's only because I got it for free needing a new motor.

It is the kastein cycle:

":black101: hell yeah I'm going to turn 'doing it right' up to 11"

":homebrew: poo poo, turns out overkill is expensive"

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


And then I do it anyways because gently caress doing it the cheap wrong way.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







This is the pathway to every "$40k invested" hopeless craigslist and ebay listing for some pretty cool car that is only worth a fifth of what the poor bastard selling it is asking.

That's not necessarily what you're doing, but... I'm just saying. Overbuilding code by a factor of two makes for a house that can last for many generations. Overbuilding by a factor of five is just wasting materials.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Except I'm not really doing that anywhere that costs a stupid amount. Windows, kitchen stuff, and hvac I am spending about what most people do for materials but installing myself. Structural, I think I blew a whopping 300 bucks extra on making the master bedroom floor bombproof, and maybe a grand on air and water plumbing plus electrical to make it exactly how I want it. I expect to have maybe 90k into the place when all is said and done including buying it in the first place. The town thinks it is worth 120+ right now and once it's done it'll be saving me ~10k a year versus living in a typical single floor 2 bedroom apartment in a 3 unit building around here. I've already saved 60k on rent so far, actually, I could likely walk away from it this moment and be financially ahead of if I rented a place for the last 5 years.

Time? I could have paid someone to build it for me by now just by consulting and using the extra cash to pay contractors. But... I don't WANT someone else to build it for me. I want to build it myself and have everything done exactly how I want it, with nothing half assed and hidden behind my back while I'm at work. I want to know exactly how every single part of this house is put together when it's done and I can't put a pricetag on that.

This isn't even really the house I wanted to build. It's as close as I could get working within the confines of what I started with, and should build some decent equity and has taught me a lot about construction. The next one will be a clean slate build and I will focus on making new exciting mistakes during its construction without repeating any of the ones the POs of this place made.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


So I'm making my new front door frame out of Ipe. It's an extremely dense, extremely hard, extremely rot resistant, extremely bug resistant Brazilian wood. I ordered mine online from a company that alleges theirs is FSC certified, so I'm hopefully not contributing to the clearcutting of the amazon since they said that *and* it made it through customs! Wasn't too expensive, either, $300 shipped (half of that was truck freight...) for 2x 8' 2x6 and a 4' 2x6. Now I get to learn how to cut and mill Ipe.

It's actually dense enough that it sinks in water, has the same fire ratings as concrete and steel (:eyepop:), and is known to last 25 years exposed to the weather with zero maintenance, up to 50 if properly maintained. Sounds ideal for an exterior doorframe to me! Quite beautiful grain, too.

(that's a piece of regular pine lumber on the right for color comparison)

Today I finally got all my ducks in a row for one stupid project and did the first shot at making my own radiant heating floor bend panels. I started with 23/32 sanded BC plywood (some companies make their radiant panels from this, others from MDO plywood, since it's going over wood subflooring and is indoors I figure BC will be fine) and used a 5/16 straight plunge bit and a 3/4 round bit to put a 3/4 diameter round channel in the plywood. It only has to fit a 5/8" OD PEX run, which is good because 23/32 is thinner than 3/4 so there would be nothing left if the PEX was taking up the whole channel.

In the process I discovered that Craftsman can't tell you accurately what their router jigs are capable of nor can they make them actually fit the routers they claim they will. At least it came with two nice mounting rods, so I made my own drat jig with some 3/4 angle iron, the mounting rods I paid $20 for (assholes), and the drill press. Worked well.

Since the round bit doesn't cut very well near the center, they specify that you should use a 5/16 straight plunge bit to give it something to start in.


3 relief cuts done for 6 180 bends:


9 180 bends done:


The actual cut, close up. Basically a 3/4" circle that sticks up 1/16" from the surface so there's still a thin layer of wood holding the center of each U-bend into the outer portion.


I need to buy a 19/32" straight plunge bit to clean up the edges, however, because a 5/8" OD PEX line doesn't fit down into the slot right now, even though it fits easily in the full 3/4" slot below the surface. Oh well, another 17 bucks, no big deal.

Why am I spending time on this instead of buying them premade? I can easily do a whole 4x8 sheet of U-bends in an hour of work for a materials cost of $28, vs $225 plus shipping for the same number of U-bends from blueridge company. It'll cost me around a day of work over the course of the entire house heating system project, but save around a thousand dollars. Worth it.

e: oh yeah, I bought a silly little 2-bag electric concrete mixer at a yardsale for $25 last weekend! So now I can do all the foundation repointing in the basement in comfort instead of having to hand-mix or fight with a paddle bit in my gear reduction drill like I'm making the worlds largest bucket of cake batter or something. This is good, because I need to repoint a section of the wall in the very near future so that I can mount the backing board that the entire heating system control valve panel will go on. Probably going with my usual cheap overkill, it'll be mounted with 1/2" galvy J-bolts intended for holding houses down on their foundations because they're easily available and hold well.

kastein fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Oct 2, 2016

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Preparing for the rear end raping that I have been expecting from buying the controls for my heating system.

Furnace: Laars MFTCW140, already purchased. Built in main circulator pump.
Design type: multi temperature, zero to one (it will only be installed if needed) high temp baseboard heat zone in the living room, 4 radiant low temp zones in the first floor plus 3 bedrooms

I'm going with Taco for everything I can -
* high temp baseboard zone will be managed by a Taco SR501-4 single zone controller (or daisy chained off a the same zone channel on the low temp multi zone controller as the low temp zone it shares a room with, to save money and prevent the two zone controllers from fighting over who is going to heat the room)
* radiant mixing will be managed by a Taco RMB-1 radiant mixing block. It's a thousand bucks, but seems to be the best product on the market right now.
* low temp radiant zones will be managed by a Taco SR504-4 four-zone controller.

Each zone will have its own Taco 007-F5-7IFC circulator pump (4 or 5 required) with internal flow check valve.

Anyone see a problem with this? Better ways I could do it? Cheaper but just as good ways I could do it? Right now the total for just the pumps, controllers, and mixing block (assuming baseboard heat will be required as a fifth zone) is $1621, not even including all the flanges, tees, pipe, gaskets, thermostats, etc I'll definitely need :shepspends:

Oh well, even if I do have to spend that much... that brings total cost for a whole-house radiant floor system to $4400 (including the $684 already spent on 2000' of oxygen barrier PEX and $2100 already spent on the boiler) plus ancillaries.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


quadruplepostin'

Alright, so since the furnace has a stainless exchanger and is a condensing design, I don't need to run it at a high temp to keep it from corroding. Ideal efficiency is usually achieved with a furnace inlet temp below 120-130F, ideally as low as possible. Also, most people run radiant systems at a deltaT of ~20 degrees, and you want inlet temp on radiant to be around 120-130. What this means is, IF AND ONLY IF I do not need the baseboard heat zone in the living room to keep up, I can leave the MFTCW140 set at its factory default of 120F output, aim for 100F or less inlet temp, and achieve 90%+ efficiency. Another benefit of this is that I can eliminate an SR501-4 saving 50 bucks, an RMB-1 saving ONE THOUSAND dollars, and a zone circulator pump saving another 80+.

If I need the baseboard heat zone, I will have to crank the furnace up to ~150-200, buy the extra circulator pump, zone controller, and mixing valve.

I think a better idea is to upgrade the two remaining exterior 2x4 walls to 2x6 using furring strips (which has the side benefit of reducing the gap I have to cover between the edge of the flooring and the sheetrock... thanks, PO) to increase R-value and perhaps install radiant wall panels as well.

Also, the myriad different ways of designing a hydronic heating system have got me mindfucked but I think I've decided on a route to go. There seems to be a lot of trickery involved in making water do what you want and not thermosiphon, too, which I am not used to. I didn't really intend to spend half of today reading up on heating system plumbing, whoops!

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Radiant heating is new to me.

What does the newest plan mean for the high temp zone? It has perpetual limited output, at the benefit of maximum efficiency?

Edit: or you're saying you will completely eliminate it? The line about "if I do not need the baseboard zone to keep up" has me wondering. Sorry to interrupt your thoughtstream.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 3, 2016

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Basically I'm not sure that with the thin old walls and underfloor radiant heat I'd actually get the living room warm enough to be comfortable. The other rooms all have either thicker walls or above-subfloor radiant or both. So I suspect I'm going to need the extra R-value from the thicker walls to compensate for the fact that that room will have the radiant below the subflooring.

If I can save a thousand bucks by sticking up some more lumber and dumping another 30 into insulation so be it! I hate baseboard heaters anyways.

Stuff left to buy, assuming that works:
- expansion tank
- pressure relief valves
- backflow preventer(s)
- vacuum breaker: already purchased
- 4x circulators w/ IFC
- 4x flanges
- 4x flanges w/ builtin shutoff valve
- flange gaskets
- air scoop (includes port to hook the expansion tank to!)
- automatic air vent
- SR504-4 4 zone controller
- 4x bleed/drain valves
- 4x shutoff valves
- innumerable sweat-to-PEX fittings
- several temp gauges
- several pressure gauges?

Some of this (one PRV, vac breaker, etc) is because the boiler has a builtin endless on demand DHW boiler unit, so I can kick the dedicated water heater out of the basement and use that space for something else. :woop:

It looks like I should be planning on using 1" for the manifold rails and 3/4" for the spurs based on the fitting sizes and flowrate expected.

Regardless of whether the baseboard heat gets put in in the first place, I'm going to leave space on the panel for extra zones at the right end and between the boiler and first zone for an RMB-1, more zone controls, and more zone valves/pumps just in case.

kastein fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 3, 2016

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo




Fallen Rib

Have you checked out the Grundfos Alpha pumps? We just put in two of them, and they're pretty neat.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I had, but it looks like they cost roughly twice as much ($172 vs $80.) Hmm.

It also looks like someone in the comments section of the amazon page for them is saying the Alphas are a deltaP pump and best used as a single circulator with multiple zone valves, while a Taco Bumblebee is roughly the same price and is better used as a zone circulator. Since I have no idea if they're right or not, I'll have to read up further on that.

e: I read the manual for Taco Bumblebees and they support a delta-T mode with inlet and outlet sensors for each zone that will manage flowrate as required. In fact, they come out of the box configured that way. $100 more per zone, but I may go for this, thanks.

e2: oh wait taco viridians are a mere $20 more than bumblebees and quieter and more efficient! drat it, how am I looking at $800 in circulators instead of $314 suddenly? :v:

kastein fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 3, 2016

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari


Radiant heat is a nice to have or a must have?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


... seeing as I'm not buying and installing an entire heating system only to rip it out (leaving pipe holes in the floors in the process) and put a different one in, yes, I would call it must have...

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

All of this is way way over my head but I just wanted to let you know I'm reading it, at least.

Also, I'm surprised that you're considering leaving "just" the 2x4 + insulation there in the living room when everything else is so overbuilt. If you have it open now, it's probably worth the few extra hundred dollars to shim it out and get better insulation for it (assuming you have none there already).

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I left a lot of 2x4 exterior walls in the second floor too. It's a small house as it is. The main reason I'm considering changing that approach for the living room is because of the different heating system that will be installed (another layer of boards between the radiant piping and the room...) as well as it likely being used a lot and having two large windows, an old uninsulated exterior door, and either a french or sliding patio door. My gut feeling is that it's going to need more heat than the other rooms, or more insulation.

I've decided the Veridian pumps are the way to go, seeing as I am very quickly running out of time before winter and the system will likely require a lot less flowrate adjustment this way and regulate room temp better with it.

rdb
Jul 8, 2002
chicken mctesticles?

RE: taco pumps, my outdoor wood boiler uses them. They tend to fail on the coldest day, but they are quiet and the replacement cartridges are cheap. And radiant floor heating rocks. Have it in the master bedroom only.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



Now I'm contemplating a radiant cooling system in the ceiling...

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!



Enourmo posted:

Now I'm contemplating a radiant cooling system in the ceiling...

I had something like that in my dorm room my second year at college. It wasn't terrible once it got down to temp, but it wasn't great on one of those days when you absolutely need a stream of frigid air blowing on you. Also, condensation was a big concern.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Enourmo posted:

Now I'm contemplating a radiant cooling system in the ceiling...

It worked for the Romans!

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Heat rises. Put the heat in the floor, not the ceiling.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



Leperflesh posted:

Heat rises. Put the heat in the floor, not the ceiling.

Read again, radiant cooling. Heat rises so cold falls?

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN


Slippery Tilde

Radiant cooling is an oxymoron. Also, condensation would be a stone bitch to deal with.

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Nap Ghost

Terrible Robot posted:

Radiant cooling is an oxymoron. Also, condensation would be a stone bitch to deal with.

Yeah, and if you're dehumidifying in order to decrease condensation you might as well just cool anyway.

Speaking of which, the two-stage replacement for the single-stage A/C lower zone that broke in June has performed great. The house was more comfortable this summer at a higher setpoint compared to the previous system (and that's set-and-forget at 74 degrees / 45% humidity, not even bothering to set up away or nighttime schedules) and even though August was two degrees warmer this year we used 10% less power. I don't have data, but I think it even let us use the upper zone system less heavily as well because the basement and first floor were so well-controlled in terms of both heat and humidity, so there was less of it to rise into the second and third floors. I mean, we'll never recoup the cost of a whole new installation, but we'll certainly recoup the differential between this and a single-stage system and the house felt sooooooo much better this year.

Unfortunately, now there are more trees to remove (one of which is tilting right toward the goddamned house), repointing that needs to happen, a sidewalk and set of outside stairs that have just loving given up, a driveway that might get by with sealant but which might need to be resurfaced soon ... YAY HOME OWNERSHIP.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







sidewalk gum posted:

Read again, radiant cooling. Heat rises so cold falls?

Dang, I mis-read (because of the word radiant, probably). Yeah you can make cold air in the ceiling and that would work great, but there are no coldness particles or cold radiation spraying out of your cold things, so if you run tubes full of cold stuff through the ceiling you're absorbing heat from the hottest air first up at the ceiling level. Maybe that would work, I dunno, but yeah water is gonna condense on them and drip somewhere.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yeah, I'm gonna pass on the hydronic AC in the ceiling. Would be a decent plan with something like a poured concrete structure, but not this setup.

My 19/32 straight plunge bit arrived and the prototype panel fits tubing perfectly now. Time to get serious.



TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Are you having to heat that PVC any to get it to bend in that tight of a radius?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


It's PEX. I just bent it and snapped it into the slot, it's fairly flexible and actually comes to me in thousand foot rolls.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Oh, duh. That makes a lot more sense than PVC would.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



Yeah sorry I'm not agreeing with the term radiant coolling, just pointing out it was used.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Well, I got a lot less than I wanted to done over the long weekend, but almost all of the furring strips for the master bedroom ceiling are up, which means tonight (assuming I get home early enough) I can put up the new oak roof tie beams! :woop:

Trying to get the furring strips placed without interfering with where I need to attach the new tie beams to the rafters, but without making the roof line super screwy, was very annoying and resulted in a lot of staring at the ceiling and scratching my head. Stupid slanty old house.

I think I am going to end up putting antifreeze in the heating system, at least for this winter, because I am likely to be installing it section by section and starting it up in completely unheated rooms. Rather have slightly lower thermal capacity in my system than risk a freeze. I can flush it out and refill with pure water next summer if needed.

Pictured: a blurry pain in the loving rear end

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I got all the 1x8 tie beams in place this weekend as well as all the low voltage mud rings and smurf tube for the cabling between them, which is all to power the LED lighting that will be hidden on top of each beam.

Halfway through:


All tie beams done:


Not going anywhere, that's 8 1/4" diameter, 3" long SPAX Grade-8 truss-head lag screws holding each end of each one in place:


Then I ran out of furring strip material after HD closed so I was down for the count. Work continues tonight after I pick up another few bundles. Also got a giant pile of 2x2 (WTF, my local lumberyard doesn't have it, I had to pick through the scrap garbage wood at HD for it) sticks for making the living room walls thicker. Need to order heating system parts this week, as well.

I am really hoping to have the master bedroom and living room vapor blocked and ready to blow insulation by Sunday but who knows if that is going to happen. (it won't)

beep-beep car is go
Apr 11, 2005

I can just eyeball this, right?





kastein posted:

Halfway through:


I'll be that guy and admit I thought it looked like you were making your upstairs space less usable with the ties at an angle. I was like "Why does he want to make his ceiling look like it's an attic crawlspace? And then I noticed the window at an angle, and realized the photo was just turned :v:

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yeah, I was trying to get the most relevant stuff into the picture as I could. Also, I really need to buy a cheap lovely point and shoot digicam, this cellphone takes abysmal blurry garbage photos even compared with my old phone. Jesus.

Rectal Placenta
Feb 25, 2011


Just want to say those Spax fasteners are amazing. I used them while sistering LVLs in my basement and I can't imagine any other fastener working as smoothly. The extra cost is sooo worth it.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Rectal Placenta posted:

Just want to say those Spax fasteners are amazing. I used them while sistering LVLs in my basement and I can't imagine any other fastener working as smoothly. The extra cost is sooo worth it.

I love em. I wouldn't be surprised if I've spent 300 bucks on them so far. So glad I found them before I started using traditional lag bolts.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

What's so great about them? I'm always on the lookout for better fasteners.

Jonny Nox
Apr 25, 2008






TooMuchAbstraction posted:

What's so great about them? I'm always on the lookout for better fasteners.

according to my Dad, they are a good Canadian design, ruined by Germans.

edit:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/shopping/TechInfo.aspx?p=42103

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

I love em. I wouldn't be surprised if I've spent 300 bucks on them so far. So glad I found them before I started using traditional lag bolts.

Yeah, maybe I'm missing something, but how are these not just timberloks (ledgerloks if you need them to be rated). That's how I put up the ledger against the existing barn when i built my office. Expensive but totally worth it, just not exactly a new concept.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply