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kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


It's officially "gaping holes in the walls aren't a problem" weather!

That means time to make gaping holes in walls


hmm seems to be something missing


oh there it is.


base was totally rotted off. Barely touched the sill


The toenail being a modern round steel nail and lack of mortise and tenon joint is the clue that this sill was replaced a few decades ago and is not original. Thus why the studs don't reach it.


New kingstud in place


Other new kingstud in place


Camera nerds please excuse my manual cellphone camera exposure control method


New box header. It is easter, but this is for holding up my house, not nailing victims of mob justice and kangaroo courts to.


New sill is in place. Will be putting new cripple studs under it so I just lopped all the old studs off above and below for now.


New header in too.

That's all for tonight, more tomorrow hopefully.

e: changed from timg to click-for-big tags, hadn't felt like writing all that bbcode on my cellphone

kastein fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 18, 2017

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Looking good. I'm guessing you'll be adding jack studs in later? Right now your header's only supported by some nails, if I understand the photo correctly.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yes. I mean, there are 16 3.5" hardened structural screws holding that header up, not just nails, but it will be getting jackstuds as soon as I've framed the part that the bay window sits on, just had to do that first. I may not be doing this the normal way, but I'll be damned if it's going to fall apart or sag.

Speaking of which, I got the horizontal plane portion of that framing done last night, after stripping two layers of siding off the area I'd have to work on:


Next up is cripple studs under the rough opening sill, screwing all the sheathing boards to the new framing and/or replacing it with plywood where necessary (for example: the gaping hole where the bottom of the old window was), and putting together the diagonal bracing from the bay window bump-out to the wall. Then I need to put together the roof structure over the bay window bump-out, make sure everything is dimensioned right, shingle it, and install the window. I really really hope I don't gently caress up the dimensions on anything, this is my first window opening that isn't just a giant rectangular hole and it's a bit hard to keep track of all the details.

kastein fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Apr 18, 2017

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







kastein posted:


New box header. It is easter, but this is for holding up my house, not nailing victims of mob justice and kangaroo courts to.


Just out of curiosity: is the grain here just whatever random direction they happened to be in, or deliberately aligned to be parallel, or would it have been OK to arrange them so they made a circle? I know some boards can "cup" and that normal framing timber often has some kind of bend to it so I wonder if that's a consideration?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Whatever direction they happened to end up in, really. It's framing, not finish work, so I didn't really care enough to line things up for appearance.

If I'd wanted to squeeze a few percent strength gains out of it, I suppose I could have flipped the 2x6s to get as much winter growth ring cross section toward the outside of the box as possible, but there's really no practical reason to. The wall stood just fine for decades with the bottoms rotted off of about 6 studs in a row (no idea how it didn't sag, tbh) and the original window opening's header was a single horizontal 2x4 with two or three iron nails holding each end to the side of a stud (no cripples or jacks at all), so I think this ridiculously overbuilt header and the doubled 2x6 studs at each end will hold it up perfectly well.

kastein fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 18, 2017

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Haha yeah I had no doubt as to its strength, I just know you to be an optimizer type guy who might know things I don't know about board directionality.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Sheathing, cripple studs, decking, and jack studs in.


Ledger and first two support braces in.


More braces!


Pressure treated sheathing going on. Those triangles are going to be a bitch to measure and cut.


It's solid as gently caress. Doesn't even bounce if I jump on it.


Kitchen is going to be much lighter and it won't go behind the countertop like the old window did. Dumbass PO...

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo




Fallen Rib

It looks like the kitchen is going to be heavier, with all that new wood. :v:

Keep up the good work. I'd suggest CAD for the triangles. Cardboard templates work wonders.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

How're you connecting those braces at the ends? I don't see any brackets; are they just toenailed in?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Three 3.5" long hardened #10 structural screws each. I love those screws, probably going to end up putting spax' entire staffs children through college at this point.

Rectal Placenta
Feb 25, 2011


I enjoy the contrast between this thread and the bathroom remodel one.

shortspecialbus
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!




kastein posted:

Three 3.5" long hardened #10 structural screws each. I love those screws, probably going to end up putting spax' entire staffs children through college at this point.

I misread that at first as 'spanx' and I thought you finally revealed your secret for looking so fit and trim.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Thanks :haw: I try to build everything as strong as I possibly can.

I did buy a handful of simpson strong-tie brackets for those but decided against using them. Still debating popping the sheathing off to put them in, though I'm pretty sure a grand total of two dozen 3.5" hardened structural screws and 4 2x4s will hold a bay window up just fine.

shortspecialbus posted:

I misread that at first as 'spanx' and I thought you finally revealed your secret for looking so fit and trim.

These days my secret is not having pictures taken. My metabolism has dropped significantly in the last few years and I need to lose a little weight. Fortunately, it's comfortable construction/junkyarding weather and will be for at least another month or so...

TheMightyHandful
Dec 8, 2008



kastein posted:

Thanks :haw: I try to build everything as strong as I possibly can.

I did buy a handful of simpson strong-tie brackets for those but decided against using them. Still debating popping the sheathing off to put them in, though I'm pretty sure a grand total of two dozen 3.5" hardened structural screws and 4 2x4s will hold a bay window up just fine.


These days my secret is not having pictures taken. My metabolism has dropped significantly in the last few years and I need to lose a little weight. Fortunately, it's comfortable construction/junkyarding weather and will be for at least another month or so...

You've just over-engineered your internal Insulation

shortspecialbus
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!




kastein posted:


These days my secret is not having pictures taken. My metabolism has dropped significantly in the last few years and I need to lose a little weight. Fortunately, it's comfortable construction/junkyarding weather and will be for at least another month or so...

No poo poo. When I hit my early 30's my metabolism slowed a ton, and then when I had to retire from hockey from a back injury, it got even worse :( Getting old is no fun.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yikes. Came down with the worlds worst allergies and sinus infection this weekend, so all I accomplished was a complete AC system replacement and R152a conversion on my wife's 1993 Buick Roadmaster. Hopefully I can get a little more framing done this weekend when not dealing with family events.

Just look at all those new parts...


The only used AC parts on it are the high and low pressure switches (carefully flushed with solvent) and the condenser to evaporator liquid line (taken from a junkyard donor and carefully flushed with solvent, scrubbed with pipecleaners and solvent, then flushed again.)

It works! She's really happy with it, first time the car has ever had working air conditioning while she owned it. Only complaint now is that it seems to blow colder air than it should given the temperature set on the fancy automatic HVAC control panel! I'll take that as a sign of success.

At this point I'm shopping for built-in AC stuff for the house, so I'll get to use my AC nerd knowledge for that too, in fact I already bought my R410a manifold/gauge set. Apparently it runs at much higher pressures than R22, R12, R134a, or R152a, so I guess I need more than one gauge set...

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




You really dont. One gauge set can read pretty much all pressures, as long as the low side goes high enough. You can always just swap out the gauges themselves instead of buying a whole new manifold.

Or buy digital gauges and be done with it.

More importantly though, if you're doing this, you're going to need a proper micron gauge and nitrogen and a scale.

So, I know you have a bit of experience with car AC, but doing home AC is cosiderably more advanced than just slamming some computer duster in a prebuilt system.

So, have you picked out you equpitment yet? Is it properly sized for the space you intend to cool?

How high up is the AHU going to be? You may need to install an oil trap if you're going from the first floor all the way to the attic.

Have you left room for ducts? Do you know what material you'll be using? Do you know where the return is going to be? Have you left access for filter changes?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Glad an actual professional is on here to keep me from making dumb amateur mistakes :haw:

- gauge pressures: not sure, and the high pressure gauge set already showed up from Amazon, so it looks like I own it now because I hate shipping things.
- micron gauge: Thanks, I had no idea I needed such a thing.
- nitrogen: for purging the lines I assume? Can I get away with argon? Because I've already got a tank of argon for my welder, I know it's more expensive but if it means I don't have to buy something else, I'll just use it.
- scale: for weighing refrigerant charge? I have a postal scale that goes to 70lb and counts down to tenths of an ounce that I typically use for two things, mixing thermite and measuring refrigerant charge to add to vehicle AC systems. Think it'd be good enough?
- I had no idea it was more advanced, so thanks for warning me about that.
- have not picked out equipment, but I'm considering a Ruud 13 SEER unit, at least that's what the guy selling them for a decent price locally says it is. I have no loving idea what SEER means, nor what 13 means in this context, nor whether this refers to the air handler, the condenser unit, or both. I'm an ignorant idiot when it comes to this stuff and have barely begun researching it.
- sizing: The size I was looking at is probably a little small but I only really intend to cool the second floor where the bedrooms are, which amounts to about 750 square feet. I was considering around 3.5 to 4 tons.
- AHU will be in the attic, about 20 feet AGL. Condenser will be on the ground, so yes, I will need an oil trap. I didn't know that even existed until you mentioned it, so thanks a ton.
- ducts: the spot I want to put the AHU is right on the other side of the vertical wall between the master bedroom and the attic, and has 2x8 joist bays running directly from it to the place where I intend to drop down the two air vents to the other two bedrooms, so I *think* I have decent access. I was hoping to use rectangular metal ducting since it's mostly a straight shot in each direction and I suspect it flows a lot better than corrugated round duct and has more cross section for a given HxW size than a round metal duct.
- return: I was hoping to put it in the second floor hall ceiling (which would put it somewhere very close to the AHU) but this may be a poor choice, I haven't researched that much yet.
- filter changes: the corner of the attic the AHU will be in is probably going to suck to get into, if it fits the AHU at all (I need to get dimensions...) but yes, this is on my mind since I have a few friends who work in building maintenance and bitch a lot about the asshats who install HVAC systems with the filter change slots facing a wall or a collection of pipes or something.

Thanks a ton for bringing some of that up, I certainly have no loving clue what I'm doing on this and it's way better to find out before I, say, cut the tops off half my joists to change the filter...

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

kastein posted:

it's way better to find out before I, say, cut the tops off half my joists to change the filter...

DIY is never going to let that guy live that down, and it is glorious.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




OK so:

Scale- As long as it can be zero'd out to weigh in the charge, you should be fine.

Nitro- I'm really not sure about argon. Generally you use nitro for two things, for leak testing, and for purging when you braze. ( This is so you don't end up with a bunch of oxidized cap flaking off) It works because it a dry gas, so you're not introducing moisture to the system.

SEER- Basically refers to the energy efficency of the unit. To get fancy:

Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio (SEER): This is a measure of equipment energy efficiency over the cooling season. It represents the total cooling of a central air conditioner or heat pump (in Btu) during the normal cooling season as compared to the total electric energy input (in watt-hours) consumed during the same period. SEER is based on tests performed in accordance with ARI 210/240.48

In the U.S. SEER is defined as the ratio of cooling energy in BTUs (presumably BTUs/hour) to energy consumed in watt-hours.

Tonnage- Ok, for 750~ sqft, you only really need a 1.5 or 2 ton unit. 3-4 is a bit overkill

Ductwork- As far as ductwork goes, you want to have a central trunk line with smaller ducts running off it for the drops.

Metal duct is great, will work extremely well. Insulating it cab be a bit of a project though. Hope you like feeling itchy and sweaty. :v:

As far as sizing and running things go, you can a thing called a ductulator from Trane that'll help with the calculations for properly sizing your ducts and drops.

I can also help with this.

As far as the return goes, you want to keep it somewhere central, like a hallway, or common area, so it can suck in the most air. If space is tight in the attic you'll probably be best going with a filter back grille so you can just change them without c
Having to go in the attic.

E; Also, for the AHU, if you're mounting it in the attic, make sure you have enough room to hang it and an auxiliary drain pan under it.

Trust me, you'll want to do this so you're ceiling doesn't collapse when it overflows when the drain line backs up.

ExplodingSims fucked around with this message at 15:08 on May 3, 2017

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


It's definitely dry argon (it's intended for TIG welding, any water would certainly contaminate the weld) so I think it'll probably do fine.

There's no real door or anything keeping the excess cool air in the second floor, so I suspect that 3-4 tons set up to cool the 3 bedrooms, but with an open stairwell, will result in the cool-ish air from the bedrooms spilling down the stairs and (hopefully) warmer-ish air from ceiling level in the first floor spilling upward and getting sucked into the return in the upstairs hall. I doubt the first floor will be as cool as the second floor, but that's fine, it's just a bonus as far as I'm concerned. We shall see. If not, the first floor just won't be air conditioned at all, not a big deal, that's how it's been for 7 years.

I don't like feeling itchy and sweaty, but I also shoveled hundreds of pounds of moldy, damp, squirrel and mouse piss soaked rockwool out of the attic bare handed in the summer directly under an asphalt roof with zero ventilation and survived, so I'm not overly worried about insulating some ducts :v: (that loving sucked and I drat near got heatstroke btw, don't do this)

I had no idea a filter back grille was even a thing! Thanks.

Hanging the AHU should be interesting. I assume the drain pan should have a pipe that follows normal "poo poo rolls downhill" slope specifications, either to outside or to a slop sink or floor drain somewhere? (Or dripping outside.) Somehow I suspect a water sensor that shuts off the system before the pan overflows would be a good idea too.

For duct sizing I was literally just going to go with the biggest drat duct I can fit given the space I have available. The rafters are 2x8 and 24"OC, so if I wanted I could fit anything up to a pair of 7x10s down the bay to the second and third bedrooms. I left space in the wall of the master bedroom for anything up to a 14" wide register, I was hoping to use something like a 14x6 register with a 14xsomething duct to that one.

I'll have to draw all this out in a bit. Since the house is T shaped (master bedroom in the stem of the T, other two bedrooms in the top bar) and the AHU will hopefully go in between the master bedroom and the other two, I think the ductwork should hopefully be reasonably simple.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




Yeah, insulating ducts sucks. You gotta roll out that fiberglass stuff, tape it, mastic it, all while getting sweat in every crevice on your body.

Protip: Work from the furtherest duct back to the AHU so you can enjoy the cool air it puts out while you work.

As far as hanging the AHU goes, that's not so bad, you just need unistrut and all thread. Just make sure you don't block off the access panels.

As far as the drain goes, for the drain from the AHU you just need to put a P-trap in there, preferably close to the unit, and then yeah, just run it down.

For the drainpan, I like to put something with a ball valve in there, you you don't have to vacuum it out when it fills up. Make sure you keep the main drain and aux drain lines seperate.

And yes, float switches are a thing. I'm not sure what code calls for up there, but here you need one on the AHU and on the aux. pan.

As for ducts, don't just slam the biggest thing you can fit on there. They need to be sized properly for correct airflow and pressure. The calculations really aren't that hard, it'd mostly just getting sqfootage.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


There you go, saving my rear end again, had no idea pressure was something designed into the duct sizes.

For the AHU - now that you bring up allthread and unistrut, reminds me. Any reason I shouldn't put vibration dampeners in the hang points? Because I used rubber ones to hang the temporary furnace in the kitchen and it made a pretty serious difference in vibration transferred to the floor under the #2 bedroom. Since I already have 4 of them and they cost a bit compared to just hanging it with allthread I feel like I should get some use out of them after taking that furnace down. They're rated for 100lb each so I really hope they'll support the AHU because otherwise it's going to seriously suck getting it into the attic. (They're part number 29895T56 on mcmaster and fit a 3/8" threaded rod pretty nicely.) If I do want to put vibration dampeners in, do you think I should use rubber bushing style ones or spring+bushing based ones? I don't mind buying new if springs will do a better job, my intent here is building the place right, not saving money.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




You can absolutely use vibration dampening things on the AHU supports. I see a lot of places use the spring ones, so you could probably use that.

You can also put these little rubber pads under the AHU so it's not sitting directly on the unistrut. The will keep it quiet, and help keep the box from getting deformed.

They're called iso-pads, little waffle shaped rubber things.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Cool! Good to know. For some reason I was picturing the AHU having hang-points on the top like commercial shop heaters, not getting supported by unistrut under it.

BTW, here's a super half assed sketch of what I'm thinking:


I may have to put a jog in the duct near the #2/#3 register end to jump up and over a piece of blocking between two joists, and maybe jog up and over the joists where they meet the joists for the master bedroom wing of the house (shown right near the AHU in the overhead sketch), but otherwise I'm pretty sure the path is clear. I'll know more once I get some dimensions measured and find out what exact AHU will fit/be big enough.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




Looks simple enough. When I get home with access to a real computer I can make up some basic plans for you. Although it looks like you shouldn't need much.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






As a reference point, the minimum allowable SEER rating for a new A/C unit in Arizona is 13. So if the law there is the same, the unit you are looking at is the least efficient unit that is legal to sell currently. Also the cheapest, since as that number increases, so does the price!

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

The Locator posted:

As a reference point, the minimum allowable SEER rating for a new A/C unit in Arizona is 13. So if the law there is the same, the unit you are looking at is the least efficient unit that is legal to sell currently. Also the cheapest, since as that number increases, so does the price!

I would expect Arizona to have possibly the most strict AC efficiency requirements in the country, though. Maybe behind California.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




The 13 SEER thing is nationwide, if not worldwide. Has been since 2005.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011


Man, my window unit is 11

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I would expect Arizona to have possibly the most strict AC efficiency requirements in the country, though. Maybe behind California.

You'd be amazed.

On filters... My mom's house is the only one I've ever seen that has the filters anywhere other than the return grilles. There's no attic to the house at all so one air handler is in the garage, the other is in a closet at the opposite end of the house. 1" thick filters in the bottom of each.

My last apartment, my house, my dad's house, and pretty much any other house I've ever seen in AZ where I have so much as cared to look at where the return grille is, has a filter there. Only reason my first apartment isn't on the list is because it was a shithole in Tucson with only a swamp cooler. Never again.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Er...the air handler in the garage is sucking return air from the garage? That's definitely not a good idea, especially if it's actually used as a car garage. The room should be sealed from the rest of the house, not potentially ducting carbon monoxide.

E: unless this system is only for the garage area and does not tie into living space.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 18:35 on May 4, 2017

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




It's not an open return in the garage, that would be dumb.

The AHU is in the garage, and had a ducted return going to it. Everything is nice and sealed.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Yeah, you're right, that's it I'm sure. I read closet air handler and projected how I often see them installed, drawing air through a grill in the door.

Although to be fair, as leaky as the return duct to air handler connection often is, it's not the best location for it. Something to be mindful of at least.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 22:37 on May 4, 2017

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




TooMuchAbstraction posted:

DIY is never going to let that guy live that down, and it is glorious.

I'm pretty sure Kastein's place is overengineered to the point that you could randomly remove floor joists at this point without any structural issues. :P

Galler
Jan 27, 2008



The house managed to stay house shaped despite missing large amounts of structural bits. Now that that's fixed I'm not sure anything could bring it down.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I'm really not sure how. The amount of poo poo that was built wrong in the first place, haphazardly cut out by the idiot previous owners, and allowed to rot should have taken it down decades ago. Hell, one area of the upstairs hallway had floors sagging several inches due to their beatmstrj style framing fuckery.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I did some bullshit math (not a full J load calculation, unfortunately) and I think you're definitely right ES - not that I should have expected otherwise, given that this is what you do professionally - it's coming up with 2.5 to 3 tons of cooling for the entire house. I guess I'll go smaller then!

I had a wedding to attend this weekend so I didn't get as much as I wanted to done on the house, but still made some progress. Put together a quick and dirty (but dimensionally stable) mockup of the bay window rough opening (so 44.5 tall instead of 44, each wing extending 18.5 from corner to RO instead of 18, etc) and started building the roof structure over it. This time I even took into account the thickness of the sheathing the first time! :downsgun:





The vertical sheets of plywood, diagonal scrap wood, and some other bits are the mockup and will be removed as soon as the roof is assembled enough to be self supporting.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

poo poo that was built wrong in the first place, haphazardly cut out by the idiot previous owners, and allowed to rot

Not to mention the 4 (or was it 5?) layers of shingles plus snow load.

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kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Motronic posted:

Not to mention the 4 (or was it 5?) layers of shingles plus snow load.

6 on some sides of the roof, 10 on others and in certain spots. Plus a layer or two of cedar shakes. The shingles in the valleys and at the peaks were nearly 2 inches thick in a few places.

With that plus a few feet of snow load, yeah, I realized since the roof stood up to that, I probably don't need to worry about what the new roof can handle, even with the rafters on 24" centers.

I'll still never buy a house someone else built again though. Building from scratch next time.

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