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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

kastein posted:

I'll still never buy a house someone else built again though. Building from scratch next time.

Do you mean building from scratch as in "you will personally nail every board into place" or as in "you will be the GC of the build"? I really want to do the former, but I just don't see how I'd find the kind of time required. Even if I could take a leave of absence from my job, three months' worth of labor at 8 hours a day wouldn't be enough to build a house solo, I'm pretty confident. That files this project firmly under the "when I have gently caress-you money" category.

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kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


At the least, I'll have the excavation and concrete work done. Possibly the framing/"please dry it in for me". I have no intention of having anyone else do anything past that, though.

That's what I actually wanted to do, but it wasn't in the budget to pay all those kinds of huge bills up front with this place and I didn't want a loan, so fixer upper it was.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




I wish I knew half as much as you did about framing and drywalling and such, but alas. I can certainly tell you how to keep your place cold though!

I also had a few more questions as far as your A/C plans go.

Are you doing straight cool or heat pump? After talking to some other people from up north, a thought occurred, since you live where it snows, you may need to place the condenser on feet to raise it up a bit off the snow if you plan on running it in the winter. You'll probably know more about this though, seeing as you actually have to deal with said snow. :v:

Also, I got linked to these products which are pretty nice and make the exterior penetrations look a lot more snazzy: http://www.airexmfg.com/

Also, if you haven't run any cabling, or drywalled over the area where you plan on putting the Tstat, I'd highly recommend running some 1/2" conduit and mounting a single gang box there. Turned sideways the holes line right up with the Tstat mounting holes.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


The weather is cold enough here from like, september through may that there's no reason to ever turn the AC on. I might put the condenser on legs, but it shouldn't be necessary, if there is still snow on the ground the AC will be off.

Straight cooling only, no heatpump.

Those airex fittings look cool as hell and I'll probably get some, thanks!

Every thermostat location in the house (except the first floor, but it'll have one too) has a 4 11/16" square box with a single gang sideways mud ring on it and 1/2 EMT into the attic or basement, for exactly that reason. I don't want to ever have to open the walls again if I decide to change to fancier thermostats or something.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Depending on the kind of cooling you are doing you probably want the heat pump.

It's seriously cheaper (and a very minimal up front cost) to run when it's cold but not below freezing cold.

Since I can't do ducting in my house without massive boxing and/or losing the already minimal closet space and I really have no interest in HVLP noise I'm going to putting in some mini splits this spring (http://www.lg-dfs.com/art-cool-single-zone.aspx Will be a multi zone, but tell me that's not bad rear end as far as kinda hiding a mini split cassette) and the cost to go with ones that can also heat is minimal and will be easily made up for not only in energy savings but also because you know I'm a dumbass that forgets to check the oil tank and keeps 10 gallons of diesel in the barn to top things off until the oil truck shows up.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 23:57 on May 10, 2017

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



Is a heat pump mechanically similar to normal a/c, just able to run in reverse? Or is it completely different hardware?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Enourmo posted:

Is a heat pump mechanically similar to normal a/c, just able to run in reverse? Or is it completely different hardware?

It's pretty much just a "reversing valve" with a few control electronics added. So yeah, it's not much.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




It's exactly the same as any other A/C unit, except it has a reversing valve in the condenser to redirect the discharge inside, to provide heating.

The reversing valve:


It's just a solenoid mounted on top of a u-bend that slides back and forth.

E. The only thing that's really different is that it also has a defrost timer on it so it doesn't turn the condensor into a block of ice while it's running.

ExplodingSims fucked around with this message at 00:20 on May 11, 2017

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






Doesn't the condenser (or whatever the radiator thingie is) in the air handler have to be stronger in a heat pump since the pressures are much higher when it's in heating mode? I had to replace one a few years ago because it failed during the winter, and the tech told me that it was common for them to fail in the winter due to the higher pressures compared to when they were in cooling mode.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




The Locator posted:

Doesn't the condenser (or whatever the radiator thingie is) in the air handler have to be stronger in a heat pump since the pressures are much higher when it's in heating mode? I had to replace one a few years ago because it failed during the winter, and the tech told me that it was common for them to fail in the winter due to the higher pressures compared to when they were in cooling mode.

That would be the Evaporator you're thinking of! :eng101:

And as far as I know, the Evap in air handlers are pretty universal, and can be used interchangeably. Now the issue might have been, especially if it was a newer evap, that it was made out of aluminum. Most manufacturers seem to be having trouble figuring out how to properly make and join aluminum tubes.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






ExplodingSims posted:

That would be the Evaporator you're thinking of! :eng101:

And as far as I know, the Evap in air handlers are pretty universal, and can be used interchangeably. Now the issue might have been, especially if it was a newer evap, that it was made out of aluminum. Most manufacturers seem to be having trouble figuring out how to properly make and join aluminum tubes.

Thanks. No idea what it was made of, but it was only about 9 years old at the time and had corroded at the bottom of the "V" shape, likely at the joins where the two halves connect together, so certainly could have been exactly what you are talking about with poor manufacturing.

The cost of a new evaporator installed was only a couple hundred less than an entire new air handler, which is crazy. But now I've got a 2 1/2 year old air handler so hopefully nothing in it will fail for a while.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Interesting. I never would have considered such a thing, I'll have to look into it. The furnace I got has 20-100% modulation though. Given that 20% of the furnace (133kbtu output) is 26.6kbtu/hr and a 2.5 ton AC will pump 30kbtu/hr, wouldn't it be more efficient to use the furnace at its lowest modulation setting during that "cool but not cold" period than the AC as a heatpump? I already know from past winters that electric heat costs a fuckton more than gas heat, at least around here, even with a fairly inefficient old gas burner.

Yesterday I took the day off from work to try and finish the bay window rough opening and roof structure. I got really close...
Put the top of the rough opening framing in:


And the other side...


Hang little strips of pressure treated sheathing over all of it:


Base of the roof structure going together:

(I used all pressure treated for anything in the roof structure and all the sheathing on this. Rather not worry about it.)

Last two eave rim boards on:



End of the night, got as far as putting one piece of roof decking on, but it was too late to do the others:


Hoping to do the other two pieces tonight, then roof it so I can put the window in without worrying about water intrusion. A LOT of headscratching and math went into this, but it ended up not being as complicated as I feared. The most annoying part by far was figuring out the complex angle to cut the two angled roof rafters at. Fortunately measuring a zillion times resulted in only having to cut once and trim a tiny sliver off a few times to make the ends fit better.

kastein fucked around with this message at 21:53 on May 12, 2017

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






Gas heat is certainly more efficient than electric from a cost standpoint, but it never gets cold enough here to justify the expense of a gas/electric installation when a heat pump can handle the winters here without any problem at all. Also with gas you have to deal with the hazards of carbon monoxide poisoning and of course the whole 'have to have gas' thing, and a fairly low percentage of the communities here actually have access to natural gas and the city codes generally won't allow large tank installations in tightly packed suburbia.

If I was building my own place and had gas available, I would at a minimum have gas cooking and clothes dryer. Not 100% sure on a furnace, just because I'm not sure it could ever pay for itself with the energy savings over the life of the unit when the electric bills in the winter are already very low, especially with solar and net metering (I am basically at a minimum possible bill for 4 or 5 months of the year, racking up credits for when it gets hot).

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo




Fallen Rib

A gas dryer? I've found them to be worse than electric, because the gas creates water when it burns. We've got a gas boiler, gas cooktop, electric wall oven, and electric dryer. It might be cheaper in energy costs to go with gas for the dryer, but we had one previously and it took longer than the electric, as didn't seem to get things as "dry", if you know what I mean.

TacoHavoc
Dec 31, 2007
It's taco-y and havoc-y...at the same time!

kastein posted:

Interesting. I never would have considered such a thing, I'll have to look into it.

You can run the numbers, but in NE and other regions where it gets cold and stays cold a heat pump setup is typically going to have a higher operating cost. You have to remember to derate the heating efficiency numbers to take into account the cold outside temps. A heat pumps efficiency and output drops dramatically as the outside temps get lower. You will use the electric backup heat a bunch.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







sharkytm posted:

A gas dryer? I've found them to be worse than electric, because the gas creates water when it burns. We've got a gas boiler, gas cooktop, electric wall oven, and electric dryer. It might be cheaper in energy costs to go with gas for the dryer, but we had one previously and it took longer than the electric, as didn't seem to get things as "dry", if you know what I mean.

My gas dryer works great. Also, a gas dryer should not be using straight exhaust to dry clothes, there should be a heat exchanger, surely?

e. yeah.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+a+gas+dryer+work&source=lnms&tbm=isch

Gas dryers are not drying your clothes using the exhaust, so the water vapor in the exhaust is irrelevant.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:44 on May 13, 2017

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Motronic posted:

(http://www.lg-dfs.com/art-cool-single-zone.aspx Will be a multi zone, but tell me that's not bad rear end as far as kinda hiding a mini split cassette)
Yeah that art gallery picture deal is pretty drat cool. Eventually I've got to remodel the ~450 ft² apartment in my shop. Was leaning towards a "window unit" type since it's framed for one already (discovered when doing demo), but that picture deal would be a hell of a lot more attractive.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I like gas dryers, but that's something I can worry about later.

Finished the roof decking and zipsystem taped the seams in it since rain was coming.


3 pieces of sheathing and some tape and the window can go in!

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED


kastein posted:

I like gas dryers, but that's something I can worry about later.

Finished the roof decking and zipsystem taped the seams in it since rain was coming.


3 pieces of sheathing and some tape and the window can go in!

Looks good dude! Still kinda crazy to me you didn't want to take that plywood off earlier and use brackets vs 10 screws but I love watching this come together so thank you

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



That is a very attractive bay window.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


NOW it is. :v:



I did the roof shingles and drip edge over it too but it's too dark now. Pics in the morning I guess

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Headlamp recharged, so I took a crappy pic tonight. Not sure what I will work on next other than the remaining sheathing and trim boards to make this animal proof.

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints



Filters in the return screen are brilliant. Looks like a normal return inlet



but with a filter in the back of it!



Yeah my filter is loving filthy and needs changing. Between it being in the same room as a kitchen, wood fire and having two cats in the house it doesnt stay very clean, but the bonus is i can set it the AC to fan and use it to suck the warm air from ceiling level and blow it around the house. Im also glad ive got a reverse cycle/heat pump system as I can get home and the house is freezing cold, crank on the heater in the AC system and then build the fire and by the time the fire is cranking the house is warm and the fire keeps it going.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Ferremit posted:

i can set it the AC to fan and use it to suck the warm air from ceiling level and blow it around the house.

Never thought of that! Good idea. Gonna use that now that we are heading into this sunny but freezing air temp weather. (My roof is black)

Also, don't put the filter in the dishwasher. (Ask me how I know.)

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints



I thought bout stripping it out and throwing it in the washing machine, but never dishwasher- its only held in with a spline like a window screen.

Tho when $25 buys you enough filter material for 2 filters, its just easier to replace it once a year and take it outside every month or so and wash it out.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Haven't done much the last few weekends since I've been trying to get the hangar some friends and I are renting outfitted, but found time today to trim the eaves so it's more weathertight. Still need to put that drat sheathing on though.

Fayez Butts
Aug 24, 2006



kastein posted:

Haven't done much the last few weekends since I've been trying to get the hangar some friends and I are renting outfitted, but found time today to trim the eaves so it's more weathertight. Still need to put that drat sheathing on though.



Really cool to see that bay window come together.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.




















I've never used a tape measure as a hammer before. Stretching the lead flashing around the top corners was slow (didn't want to tear it) but easy.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






Some good looking work there. I enjoy watching your home come together.

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED



On the first house I built I remember spending a lotttt of time doing this one hot day. Nice work!

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED



On the first house I built I remember spending a lotttt of time doing this one hot day. Nice work!

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Did you put a secret message for the future into that void under the bay window before sealing it up?

Also, why is it OK to still use real actual lead? I'd have thought given lead paint is banned that it'd be not allowed to use just hunks of lead on buildings but a quick google shows it's still sold all over the place.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






Leperflesh posted:

Did you put a secret message for the future into that void under the bay window before sealing it up?

Also, why is it OK to still use real actual lead? I'd have thought given lead paint is banned that it'd be not allowed to use just hunks of lead on buildings but a quick google shows it's still sold all over the place.

Pretty unlikely that a toddler is going to be up there licking on it, unlike interior paint. Also it's not going to flake off as it ages like paint does.

devicenull
May 30, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Leperflesh posted:

Did you put a secret message for the future into that void under the bay window before sealing it up?

Also, why is it OK to still use real actual lead? I'd have thought given lead paint is banned that it'd be not allowed to use just hunks of lead on buildings but a quick google shows it's still sold all over the place.

Lead really isn't that harmful just sitting there. The issue with paint is it chips off, and children eat the chips. (Or someone sands it when painting and throws it into the air).

On top of a window, that will likely be covered with something else, there's not really any danger. It's not going to flake off and it's not really in a place where children can get to it.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







I would have thought that water running over the lead would dissolve some and you'd contaminate the soil etc., or else why don't we use lead pipes any more? But I'm not a chemist, I guess it must be OK.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Probably a matter of volume. The amount of lead eroded off of a roof probably won't make it too far into groundwater. Lead pipes would contaminate every gallon run through them, especially if you do something like switch to a more corrosive water supply (Flint).

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Basically what ioc said. And there's no good substitute for lead flashing. Especially for step flashing on chimneys, which is great because you don't need to ever gently caress with the masonry to replace the roof and flashing that is tarred and nailed. There are two sets of flashing on stuff like that, one built into the chimney that folds down over the other which sticks to from between the shingles. To do the roof you gently fold the chimney step flashing up, then rip off the roof and roof step flashing, redo it, and fold the chimney step flashing back down. It's also so malleable you can do things like stretch it around corners as I did with only a block of wood or tape measure as a hammer, and I don't believe it work hardens at all. Corrosion is a lot slower than you would expect as well, I used lead for all the main roof flashing 7 years ago and the surface finish is still the same, it's just discolored a bit.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



Leperflesh posted:

I would have thought that water running over the lead would dissolve some and you'd contaminate the soil etc., or else why don't we use lead pipes any more? But I'm not a chemist, I guess it must be OK.

There are still tons of lead pipes in use all over and it's less of a problem that you'd expect as long as chemical treatment takes it into account. DC had a problem with it about 15 years ago or so because they changed from chlorine to chloramine for treatment and leached a bunch of lead into the city water. One analysis put it at 20 to 30 times worse than Flint from 2001 to 2004, but most of the same pipes serve the city today and lead in the water today is at "safe" levels.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Huh. Well, there ya go. I knew lead was still in common use on roofs in the UK, but I figured it was just they didn't care so much about lead poisoning or something. Thanks for the info.

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kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Bay window is so drat nice to have. Glad we went for it, even though it probably added around a thousand bucks to the already destroyed budget.


Oh God WTF is going on now


[[Banjo sounds intensify]]


Don't even ask


Whew. Picked it up, cut the rotten bottom off, put new block in (I know it's wonky looking, fite me) and put it back down without dropping it. It's within 1/32" of the same height it started at, too.


This bent over shred of rotten wood shows a few things.
It's the remainder of the tenon that held this post to the original sill beam, so as I thought, this sill has been replaced already. The round steel nails are a big hint that way too, found more of them here where the original builder would have used a 6 inch long wrought iron nail.
The post bottom was already rotten and waterlogged when the repair was done, or it would have snapped off instead of folding over like this. So they half assed it.


Scrap of new beam vs old.


E: missed a few in the album

:wtf: who notches a stud in a weight bearing wall this much?! I mean, it was the only way to accomplish what I'm aiming for here. No big deal right?

...click the pic :v::v::v::v::v::v:

Kitchen outlets going in. Haven't had time to finish the job yet, and it's a little further along but my phone rebooted for no reason and ate the pics, oh well.

kastein fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 15, 2017

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