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threedaycrash
Sep 24, 2004



I never thought in a million years I would have anything to contribute to this thread, but I might be able to answer any questions you have about fire protection when you start the new place, assuming you mean a small sprinkler system. I design sprinkler systems and I have some experience on the installation and upkeep as well.

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

GentlemanofLeisure posted:

I actuallly work in coatings and corrosion. If the shop is doing a hot-dip galvanize, the metal piece is immersed in a vat of molten zinc in the 840* F temp range. This causes the zinc to alloy with the steel, which also reacts to the air, and forms a coating that protects the base steel. Spray applied zinc coatings also protect the metal underneath, but are more susceptible to mechanical damage exposing the underlying metal leading to local corrosion that can spread.

Gotcha, thanks for the info! And of course, now that you say this I remember having heard the term "hot-dip galvanized" (as kastein then mentioned), which is pretty self-explanatory.

kastein posted:

so I don't have to buy half a ton of zinc ingots to make a large enough zinc bath to galvanize one part.

Aren't zinc fumes really bad news? Not getting heavy metals in your lungs is the reason why you're not supposed to toss galvanized stuff into a fire AIUI. I'm not saying you couldn't do it yourself, just that you'd need a fair amount of safety gear.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Aren't zinc fumes really bad news? Not getting heavy metals in your lungs is the reason why you're not supposed to toss galvanized stuff into a fire AIUI. I'm not saying you couldn't do it yourself, just that you'd need a fair amount of safety gear.

Yeah, this is why you don't weld galvanized. Metal fume fever is a bitch.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Motronic posted:

That's always the good shop to find.
Yeah, especially since I dropped the stuff off late last week, told them they could take as long as they needed to and they called me just after lunch today. I was expecting at least a week or two. Hope they have a location closer to Seattle too, I'm sure I'll need HDG services in the future.

threedaycrash posted:

I never thought in a million years I would have anything to contribute to this thread, but I might be able to answer any questions you have about fire protection when you start the new place, assuming you mean a small sprinkler system. I design sprinkler systems and I have some experience on the installation and upkeep as well.

That's exactly what I meant, and I'll keep that in mind!

Wrar
Sep 9, 2002




Soiled Meat

Do you know a good realtor? A good one can get you a significantly higher margin on your house, especially if you're a bit flexible about the sale date. The market around here in NC gets going in the mid spring to early summer, but regional variances etc.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Wrar posted:

Do you know a good realtor? A good one can get you a significantly higher margin on your house, especially if you're a bit flexible about the sale date. The market around here in NC gets going in the mid spring to early summer, but regional variances etc.

I don't think there is much of a market variation on that one for "family" homes because a lot of your potential buyers are trying to move when their kids aren't in school/middle of a school year.

Also, imaging moving in the winter in the northeast.

Beach Bum
Jan 13, 2010


Motronic posted:

Also, imaging moving in the winter in the northeast.

Oh, look, something worse than moving in Florida in August :stonklol:

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







kastein are you learning about earthquake-safe construction? Because PNW means building to new earthquake standards ("new" as of 1996 or thereabouts, IIRC) and being ready for a really big one that is definitely coming.

Beach Bum
Jan 13, 2010


Leperflesh posted:

kastein are you learning about earthquake-safe construction? Because PNW means building to new earthquake standards ("new" as of 1996 or thereabouts, IIRC) and being ready for a really big one that is definitely coming.

He's gonna build it on pontoons

SouthShoreSamurai
Apr 28, 2009

It is a tale,
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.




Fun Shoe

I mean, have you seen what he's already built? His house is gonna BE the local disaster recovery shelter.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Leperflesh posted:

kastein are you learning about earthquake-safe construction? Because PNW means building to new earthquake standards ("new" as of 1996 or thereabouts, IIRC) and being ready for a really big one that is definitely coming.

Look at what he's building in a seismically-dead region and ask yourself again.

e: f, b

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







I get that but "overbuild" is not, on its own, earthquake construction. There's specific forms and techniques and stuff. I'm not an expert of course. Just curious since he's building his own, whether he's done some reading on the subject. A lot of people don't think of the PNW as earthquake zone, because unlike California, it doesn't get lots of earthquakes: just one really loving big one approximately every 300 years on average, and it's been over 300 years since the last one.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Wrar posted:

Do you know a good realtor? A good one can get you a significantly higher margin on your house, especially if you're a bit flexible about the sale date. The market around here in NC gets going in the mid spring to early summer, but regional variances etc.

My plan was to toss it back to the same realtor who helped me buy it, actually.

As for seismic concerns - yes, already got the cascadian subduction zone and the Seattle fault very much on my mind. I intend to put a ridiculous amount of rebar in the foundation and triangulate the gently caress out of the framing. I actually have been debating building a giant slightly-dished reinforced concrete pad and putting the house on a slightly convex "foundation" that free floats on it, so that if we get tossed around the house just ends up wherever on the pad it ends up instead of falling into a big crack in the ground, and all I have to do is reconnect any utilities that get severed and put stuff back on the shelves, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't meet code. Either way, yes, I'm painfully aware. I've researched tsunami heights in the area and we should be 10 to 30 feet above the waters reach even if the Seattle fault lets loose.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I forgot to post this last night.





Almost looks like I know what I'm doing. If it ever stops raining it is getting installed today!

threedaycrash
Sep 24, 2004



The seismic issues have to be addressed with any sprinkler system you install too.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







One of the main things to know is that "as stiff as possible" is not correct. Houses in earthquakes need to have some flex. Seismic upgrades around here amount to anchoring the house to the foundation and installing reinforcement to the crawlspace cripple walls so they don't collapse, but a bunch of extra bracing in the walls is unnecessary and not very helpful.

Another thing is not building your taller buildings exact multiples of the long wavelength of an earthquake, because harmonic vibration can snap them in half.

beep-beep car is go
Apr 11, 2005

I can just eyeball this, right?





Motronic posted:

Also, imaging moving in the winter in the northeast.

No need to imagine it, I moved in upstate NY in December. We wound up just turning off the heat at both the old and new houses for the few hours that everything was wide open and just moved in our parkas. The movers showed up in light sweatshirts and worked so hard they stripped to t-shirts by the end. They said they love moving in the winter.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Leperflesh posted:

One of the main things to know is that "as stiff as possible" is not correct. Houses in earthquakes need to have some flex. Seismic upgrades around here amount to anchoring the house to the foundation and installing reinforcement to the crawlspace cripple walls so they don't collapse, but a bunch of extra bracing in the walls is unnecessary and not very helpful.

Another thing is not building your taller buildings exact multiples of the long wavelength of an earthquake, because harmonic vibration can snap them in half.

All I heard was "steel beams everywhere, triangulate it to handle being dropped from a helicopter, studs are for chumps"

GentlemanofLeisure
Aug 27, 2008


kastein posted:

All I heard was "steel beams everywhere, triangulate it to handle being dropped from a helicopter, studs are for chumps"

You're going to make a thread for your new house build, right?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







kastein posted:

All I heard was "steel beams everywhere, triangulate it to handle being dropped from a helicopter, studs are for chumps"

Sounds good to me!

Maksimus54
Jan 5, 2011


kastein posted:

All I heard was "steel beams everywhere, triangulate it to handle being dropped from a helicopter, studs are for chumps"

Clever, if the house is suspended from a helicopter it won't be affected by the earthquake or the tsunami shortly following it!

Galler
Jan 27, 2008



The command/living area for the Titan missile silos is/was a big steel structure inside a bunker with giant springs isolating the inner from the outer.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading about a tower in some earthquake prone area (might have been Japan) that also had a bunch of springs between the foundation and everything else to dampen the forces of an earthquake

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







When they renovated San Francisco City Hall, they put the entire structure on roller bearings. It's called "base isolation" and it's cool and good.
https://blog.jumpstartrecovery.com/base-isolation-in-san-francisco/

Japan has thousands of buildings on base isolation, by far the most of any country in the world.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Reminds me of the optical tables used to construct high-precision microscopes, which are mounted on active-stabilization pneumatic legs that can extend/retract to keep the table steady. Those are only really meant to cope with things like vibrations from air circulation or large trucks driving by, but I don't see why they couldn't be scaled up to handle a house.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Basically it works like that but in the reverse: the ground moves around while the mass of the building and its momentum helps to keep it in one place.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





Leperflesh posted:

When they renovated San Francisco City Hall, they put the entire structure on roller bearings. It's called "base isolation" and it's cool and good.
https://blog.jumpstartrecovery.com/base-isolation-in-san-francisco/

Japan has thousands of buildings on base isolation, by far the most of any country in the world.


If the USA number isn't at 501 after kastein is done with his new build I will consider my time here on SA wasted.

BuckyDoneGun
Nov 30, 2004
fat drunk


New Zealand building code took a lot of lessons from the Christchurch earthquakes, but one of the simplest ones that struck me was to do with basic pole foundations, which we use a lot. Previously, you dig your hole, stick your poles in, and concrete up to ground level. Now, you only concrete up halfway and fill the rest with gravel or scoria. This lets the whole house wobble a lot more and the poles absorb the movement. Simple neat and cheap solution, unlike say that changes around the use of brick, which now require a ton more reinforcement after whole facades or chimneys collapsing killed people. (Admittedly older heritage buildings, but still)

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Leperflesh posted:

When they renovated San Francisco City Hall, they put the entire structure on roller bearings. It's called "base isolation" and it's cool and good.
https://blog.jumpstartrecovery.com/base-isolation-in-san-francisco/

Japan has thousands of buildings on base isolation, by far the most of any country in the world.


They did this at the datacenter facility I use in SF as well. You can see them on the columns in the parking garage. It's pretty interesting.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yeah, California building codes changed a lot regarding brick after the large earthquakes last century, too.

I'll start another thread for sure.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


The pouring rain went away, the gale force winds did not. My ladder kept getting blown off the porch but I installed the corner bracket and got the frieze beams cut, trimmed to shape, and put up on top of it. The short side one is entirely screwed together and nailed in place, the long side I only got a couple screws into it before it got too dark to be too comfortable working, and I was about to run out of screws anyways.

I had to carefully chisel out areas of the 2x10s to clear the bracket because while it looks very nice hot dip galvanized, some loving jackass made it 1/8" too narrow to fit two 2x10s side by side in the saddles, apparently because his tape measure skills are not as good as his booger welding skills. It turns out 1.5" width nominal is just that, nominal, and each one was 1/16" too thick. Oh well. It's together now and it's not coming apart.





Ceiling joists go in tomorrow after I finish screwing the 2x10s together.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




kastein posted:

In order:
Central Mass.

Closer to hell.

Yeah that's the plan. This one will be straight, level, plumb, square, on a real foundation, far stronger (modern framing practices are worlds better than old style, and I've only fixed what was broken), and designed from the ground up with fire protection, serviceability, maintenance, efficiency, and modern heating/cooling in mind, instead of having all those things scabbed on after the fact. I'll be starting another thread for it once this one has run its course.

Also, just got a call from the galvanizing shop... Ready for pickup :stare: those fuckers are fast.

I am terrified and will be incredibly interested to see what you produce when given a clean slate to work from, given your building habits. Some poor building inspector out west is going to be very, very confused.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006



Somehow I missed that this was all in clear view of some neighbors. That must be wild to see crazy old kastein out there again building his above ground bomb shelter out of rotted wood and rusty nails.

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Nap Ghost

If they're smart, they're sending over cookies. He's raising their house values day by day.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Only one neighbor is that close. Other than that one people think I live in the woods.

That's the one that thinks they own the driveway (pictured) which is why I have my own road out back.

We're on alright terms, though I'm annoyed by the driveway thing, it's a lovely driveway and wasn't worth arguing over. They also don't give a gently caress what I do and I return the favor, though I think I'm going to helpfully offer to lend them my truck for yard cleanup purposes in a month or so because while our yards were similarly messy until recently, I cleaned up for sale purposes and they haven't. I don't give a crap about the mess as those who have visited know but prospective buyers may.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Was sick most of yesterday and got literally nothing done, but caught up today. All the ceiling joists are done except the one at the very middle of the long side (I ran out of headlok screws so I can't attach the piece it has to be nailed to at one end) and the ones in the corner area where I'm not sure how I'm going to approach the problem yet. Haven't decided if I'm going to just run em all parallel and put ceiling boards up over them at right angles or if I'm going to run a hip joist and cripple joists and make the ceiling boards meet diagonally.

Tomorrow I intend to get the second floor siding stripped on these sides, housewrap up, roof ledgers up, and maybe start on the rafters.



kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Well very little of that happened due to a long home Depot trip and lack of parts (they arrive Thursday) but I did get the difficult corner ceiling joists done and it almost looks like I know what I'm doing, too.

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester




kastein posted:

Yeah that's the plan. This one will be straight, level, plumb, square, on a real foundation, far stronger (modern framing practices are worlds better than old style, and I've only fixed what was broken), and designed from the ground up with fire protection, serviceability, maintenance, efficiency, and modern heating/cooling in mind, instead of having all those things scabbed on after the fact. I'll be starting another thread for it once this one has run its course.

The dorms I lived in had a service corridor that ran behind rooms (so basically you had two rooms that would normally back up to each other, but there was a hallway running between them for plumbing and electrical). Kinda blew me away.

You're doing that, aren't you?

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Nap Ghost

STR posted:

The dorms I lived in had a service corridor that ran behind rooms (so basically you had two rooms that would normally back up to each other, but there was a hallway running between them for plumbing and electrical). Kinda blew me away.

You're doing that, aren't you?

It's gonna be like The People Under The Stairs, complete with kastein in a gimp suit.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







I for one can't imagine a situation where I get to design and build my own house, and I don't put in secret passages.

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Coasterphreak
May 29, 2007
I like cookies.

Leperflesh posted:

I for one can't imagine a situation where I get to design and build my own house, and I don't put in secret passages.

Along with a well hidden fireproof safe that's installed in such a way that it's not moving ever without the use of heavy equipment and/or explosives.

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