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iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010


So you're suppose to have two full length studs and a trimmer on each side of the window?

And it doesn't look toe nailed to me, those are just nails used to hold assembled header together, unless they also toenailed it into something in the middle of the header.

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

iv46vi posted:

So you're suppose to have two full length studs and a trimmer on each side of the window?



iv46vi posted:

And it doesn't look toe nailed to me, those are just nails used to hold assembled header together, unless they also toenailed it into something in the middle of the header.

Maybe it's not, but it looks that way to me. It's something I'd definitely be walking over to for verification.

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010


But there are a king and a jack stud in the picture, at least if we are talking about the window on the right. Their studs are just skinny, took me a while to see the trimmer is there.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Motronic posted:

I mean what I said: a king stud. They should be doubled on the outside of the window.

And the header looks far from OK to me. It's toenailed in, rather than sitting on jack studs. The point of that header is to spread the structural load that the additional stud(s) removed for the wall penetration used to hold. This is supposed to transfer to the jack and king studs. If it's not sitting on a jack stud the entire weight it is supposed to be supporting is being handled by the toe-nailing. That's just not a smart way to do it, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of both physics and why things are built the way they are built. When you are relying on shear strength of fasteners for things like that they are supposed to be structurally rated, like when you are putting up a ledger one would use Ledger-Locks, which are rated for the purpose.....you don't just keep popping ring shank nails in with the air nailer. In this situation there is no need to rely on the shear strength of a fastener when it could have just been built correctly to begin with.

I realized several months ago that when I framed my first replacement wall in the kitchen (it's exterior, but not weight bearing) I hosed it all up horribly. It's only like a hundred bucks in lumber so I'll probably rip that back out and do it right now that I know better.

I'll update this post with a link back to the post where I put up the pictures of it when I get a chance. Might not be till Tuesday... if I forget, nag me.

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

The reason the wire and plumbing is on the outside of the wall is theres a brick wall that goes up around the whole thing thats self supporting- The timbers there purely to hold up the roof and support the interior surfaces.

Its called Masonry Veneer and its probably the most common building method in Australia. Theres an air gap between the timber and the bricks.

As for the insufficiently fastened wiring- I know the electrician who did this, and thats a "Im halfway thru this" photo- The top lines of wire are up to code, the bottom wiring hasnt been finished yet- hence the enormous roll of wiring to the left of shot

Fuckface the Hedgehog
Jun 12, 2007



The best part of "this is how Australians wire a house" is the wierdest bit of construction have ever seen. And I left the building industry because I was sick of seeing a constant strean of mass produced crappy builds.

Also gently caress waffle slab

Fuckface the Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Aug 31, 2013

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

I'd find somewhere else to live than have a waffle slab... There was a guy in melbourne I think not that long ago who was killed when a jack stand went through the concrete into the styrofoam because someone hosed up the waffle slab and put the foams in the garage area.

Fuckface the Hedgehog
Jun 12, 2007



The only reason to put in a waffle slab is if you're building on sand.

Any other place and youre just a lazy gently caress that cant dig.


Still think your mates wiring is jacked though. Even when we did Brick veneer in my days in the industry we drilled through the stud work. Also whats up with those noggins?

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

hosed if I know bout the noggins- he's a sparky not a chippy. I think the change to treated timbers (the green poo poo) has encouraged less drilling and more surface stuff.

Waffle pods are used a lot in Adelaide on the Bay of Biscay clay soils- any other kind of slab thats actually anchored into the ground will split a house in two as the soil cracks and heaves in summer and winter

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



So they aren't going to put any kind of wall cover or moisture barrier or anything on that exterior wall??? Just a brick veneer over the stud walls?

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

From what Ive looked into, Wall cover or moisture barrier isnt generally used in the hotter parts of Australia- Pretty much only Tasmania and the ACT and the high country use it because theyre the only ones who get near freezing conditions often enough. I cant recall seeing it in use around Australia. Thinking further about why the wires arent drilled in, I'd say its because theres the air gap, so they are taking advantage of that, but on internal walls its all drilled because theres gyprock against the timber on both sides



Thats the last one I watched getting built - Steel framed brick Veneer. The white stuff is an insulation apparently



Even there theres a bit of a damp course around the window but nothing else between the two

fps_bill
Apr 6, 2012



I really wish I could do half the poo poo in this thread. I can sweat pipes, but not near as clean as your stuff.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


A lot of the pics early in the thread are on facebook, and facebook decided (after letting people use the share link to get a link to embed with) that they'd change all their CDN image URLs, so everything broke. Great job facebook!

I will fix it one of these days, the pics are still there just in the wrong spot so I'll need to rehost them and fix the links so this won't happen again.

Sweating pipe is something I really like doing, I picked it up pretty easily because I've been soldering electrical stuff for 2/3 of my life so changing to another soldering process wasn't too bad. I do need to do more brazing practice though.

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

Just don't do what I did and managed to find the ONE bronze brazing rod some dick head stuffed into the tube of silver solder rods- things rolled around and rubbed and were all the same colour!

I'm actually quite proud of the fact that I managed to braze weld a tee into a 1/2" copper line and only had a tiny drip at the bottom of one join. Then went over it with silver solder to seal it properly.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Ferremit posted:

The reason the wire and plumbing is on the outside of the wall is theres a brick wall that goes up around the whole thing thats self supporting- The timbers there purely to hold up the roof and support the interior surfaces.

.....

As for the insufficiently fastened wiring- I know the electrician who did this, and thats a "Im halfway thru this" photo- The top lines of wire are up to code, the bottom wiring hasnt been finished yet- hence the enormous roll of wiring to the left of shot

Neither of these things excuse the excessive bend radius (90 degree corners), and that building method sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


In non-scary-australian-building-practices news, today I bent up the conduit for the remaining ground cable run to the water main. Only ruined one length of conduit by marking the back of the bend and bending the wrong way from it, $2.40 wasted, not the end of the world.

Also put a cover on the j-box for the 10/3 romex I had to extend for the dryer outlet and used my label maker to fill in the breaker panel legend.

PS:
If you are thinking about buying a Square D Homeline QO breaker panel, loving DON'T DO IT! THINK ABOUT ALL YOU HAVE TO LIVE FOR!

I thought paying an extra $8 or so for CAFCI breakers was bad, loving poo poo! Guess how much a 20 amp GFCI for a QO panel is?

$66

They're like $36 for a regular Homeline 20A GFCI, holy loving poo poo, I wish I never bought this goddamn panel. This is literally going to cost me an extra $100 or so even if I use the "GFCI outlet as the first one on the chain and daisy chain the others off the load terminals" trick on as many branches as possible.

I bought it because it had more breaker slots than any other 100A service panel I could find, which was a severe lapse of judgement. Of course when I bought it, I had no idea CAFCI breakers were even required and hadn't learned to check breaker prices before panel purchase.

Fuckface the Hedgehog
Jun 12, 2007



Most buildings at least in my state are exactly that. Trades don't really get taught anymore because mass producers exploit the apprenticeship system for cheap workers. Then once those workers go out on their own they know gently caress-all, and you're lucky of they can keep the studwork square.

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

kastein posted:

Of course when I bought it, I had no idea CAFCI breakers were even required and hadn't learned to check breaker prices before panel purchase.

Like printers and ink, heh.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




iv46vi posted:

The spacing is all weird, perhaps it's a double frame outside wall?

If it is, that window's going to be -seriously- recessed once they get the sheathing and siding on.

I think it's just hosed up.

Edit : Looking at that second picture, I've changed my mind. Australians are just crazy. Why in the world would you leave a gap for wire-run between a brick front and a stud wall like that, in a country with so many things you'd really rather not have crawling between your walls?

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Sep 6, 2013

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

Liquid Communism posted:

Why in the world would you leave a gap for wire-run between a brick front and a stud wall like that, in a country with so many things you'd really rather not have crawling between your walls?

No-Man's-Land/DMZ filled with cyanide gas, of course. No matter how mad you are, DO NOT PUNCH THE WALLS.

I heart bacon
Nov 18, 2007

It's burgin' time!




Splizwarf posted:

No-Man's-Land/DMZ filled with cyanide gas, of course. No matter how mad you are, DO NOT PUNCH THE WALLS.

If a wall is breached, you just grab what you can within a 2 minute window of time and burn the rest.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I heart bacon posted:

If a wall is breached, you just grab what you can within a 2 minute window of time and burn the rest.

I thought this was Australian construction, not Russian.

Nothing has happened yet, mostly due to me paying bills off instead of buying construction materials.

And yes, breaker panels are just like printers/ink and disposable razors/blade refills, it seems. Learn from my mistake.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011


Add "power tools and batteries" to that list. drat you, Makita

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

kastein posted:

And yes, breaker panels are just like printers/ink and disposable razors/blade refills, it seems. Learn from my mistake.

Next time, buy the Merkur Progress of breaker panels. Whatever that turns out to be.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Well, actually...

e: nm, misread

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Actual progress!

Well, I bought a thing. Another 8 foot pressure treated 6x6 for the next sill plate replacement project... and a new masons hammer because I broke the handle off my old one.

Came home and found carpenter ants crawling out of the wall over the rotten sill plate so clearly I have my work cut out for me here. I guess I can add a can or five of ant killer to the list too, I am going to tear out everything rotten/ant infested, then bomb those fuckers into the early proterozoic before building new.

This one is going to suck, not as much working space as the other. It is much lower to the ground, too, so I will have to do something about drainage... that reminds me, I need a roll of aluminum flashing to use as a water deflector/bug-proof layer under the pressure treated. PT is supposed to handle all that but this is the right time to go overboard if I am going to mess with it at all.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

Another 8 foot pressure treated 6x6 for the next sill plate replacement project...

What the hell kind of sill plates are you replacing that you need 6x6 for?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Old beam construction. It's an 1890 house, fieldstone foundation 18-24" thick, all the support posts and first floor support beams plus sill plates in the basement/first floor are 6x6... or larger.

Reminds me, I need to go to the lumberyard and get some true dimensional lumber to repair the bottoms of the studs again. Splicing the studs probably isn't up to code, but I don't really give a gently caress in this case, it's way better than what was there and that lasted at least 20 years while rotten. And I'm going to sister the spliced ones up with at least 4 feet of 2x4 and large screws or carriage bolts on each side of the splice.

It's not like I'm ruining a tornado-proof house, the place is literally just sitting on the foundation and the foundation would probably tip over if you took the house off of it. At least till I finish repointing it.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

Old beam construction. It's an 1890 house, fieldstone foundation 18-24" thick, all the support posts and first floor support beams plus sill plates in the basement/first floor are 6x6... or larger.

Oh boy......that's a fun job. I hate working with that stuff. It's just so freaking heavy it makes everything more difficult. Especially PT.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


It's not all that heavy, maybe 80lbs, I usually just toss em on my shoulder, the real problem is that they don't mill the corners so they dig into the side of my neck. Oh well.

The other real problem is planning ahead well enough that the new beam is lying in place before you start jacking up and supporting the studs. Else, you have a row of crossbeams holding the studs up, with temporary posts under the ends, and there's no space to get the new beam in... fortunately I planned ahead well enough for that when I did the last one, it came out quite nicely. Pictures of that one start at the end of this post here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3478212&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=5#post411701897

This time around it's going to be more annoying (less working space, closer to the ground, etc) but hopefully will go smoothly.

kastein fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Sep 11, 2013

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Cast iron radiators are really loving heavy. Not sure how I am going to get one of them down the stairs... the other two are 200lbs or less so they will only be annoying to move. If I wasn't keeping them to use with the old furnace in an eventual garage/shop build I would just sledgehammer them into more manageable pieces.

Master bedroom is almost cleaned out and ready to chainsaw the floor, which is good because free dump day is next Saturday so I have today and five evenings to get ready.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

Cast iron radiators are really loving heavy. Not sure how I am going to get one of them down the stairs...

Rent an appliance dolly. It's really the only reasonable way I've found to move those things. They certainly aren't likely to come back apart again (which is how they were brought up the steps to begin with).

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Motronic posted:

Rent an appliance dolly. It's really the only reasonable way I've found to move those things. They certainly aren't likely to come back apart again (which is how they were brought up the steps to begin with).

Noted.

Also. I started tearing up floorboards and pulled off a piece of furring strip. Found a LOT of carpenter ants in a wall I was considering razing to rebuild from scratch anyways.

Video tomorrow, warning, I say "gently caress" a lot. In fact a lot more than I usually do, I wasn't expecting this kind of damage in this spot. Take this into consideration when viewing.

I fed them 16oz of tetramethrin and permethrin

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

Tip it out a window. Not like a 2 story drop into dirt will bother it.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Here's the ant discovery video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsaaop8fZ24

The other will have to wait, uploading that one killed my battery.

E: oh yeah. Tore up half the floor in that room, found out another reason it's so goddamn bouncy.



are you loving kidding me

loving downy carpenters 120 years ago.

They put up the two walls of the living room, realized their stupid idiot selves hadn't put the studs on the same centers side to side, then just notched the studs on one side, slapped a 1x6 up, and threw the joists on top of it. A loving 1X6. Yeah that is gonna do a great job of holding up a 2x8 joist spanning 15 god drat feet. Bravo. Words cannot explain the contempt I have for them.

I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do about this yet, I need to stare at it and mutter and drink for a while. And contemplate killing every known descendant of the morons who built and maintained this god drat shack.

kastein fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Sep 22, 2013

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Wow......just wow.

What's that under there? Can you just throw a piece of steel up under them to properly support that end?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Motronic posted:

Wow......just wow.

What's that under there? Can you just throw a piece of steel up under them to properly support that end?

It is a 1x6 board, nailed vertically into notches in the studs. Why notches? Because otherwise it would protrude too far to cover with plaster so it would stick out of the living room wall at ceiling level.

Dunno what the gently caress they were thinking.

I haven't decided how I am going to fix it yet but it will be better than it was.

Current ideas:
1. Steel angle of appropriate size with added stiffness and pockets for joist ends welded on.
Cons: annoying to fabricate. Possibly not strong enough in torsion.
Pros: requires a minimum of modification to wall.
2. Notch studs further, use a 2x6.
Cons: still not really strong enough. And notching studs seems ghetto.
3. Custom steel brackets that bolt between studs and support joists.
Cons: annoying to fabricate (each will have slightly different dimensions)
Pros: very strong, no mods to wall that will weaken it or require pulling siding/sheathing off.
4. Attach 2x6 or 2x8 to face of studs with lag bolts
Cons: will require making the walls thicker, will also probably not measure up to my structural standards.
Pros: very easy.
5. LVLs at each end
Cons: requires making walls thicker.
Pros: goddamn strong.
6. Leave it alone, sell as soon as possible.
Cons: I bought this place to fix it, not paper over problems like the last 120 years of morons.
Pros: gently caress IT NOT MY PROBLEM ANYMORE *vanishes in a cloud of plaster dust and mold*
7. Knock down wall a few studs at a time (it is weight bearing!) and center them the same as the opposite wall.
Cons: Very time consuming, and requires dealing with a lot more asbestos abatement than I want to do going into winter this year.
Pros: done right, as it should have been a century ago.

gently caress.

kastein fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Sep 22, 2013

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

It is a 1x6 board, nailed vertically into notches in the studs.

I meant under there in general....like if there's enough space/access to get steel in place and supported. Beams are relatively cheap, and if you put it up right you know it's not going anywhere for a real long time. That would also be the side of the room you put you 110 gallon reef tank on. Or indoor inflatable swimming pool.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I am on my phone so I can't really draw things, but basically this is how the second floor joists of my balloon framed house are attached to the studs, not sure that is 100% clear. I will draw a diagram of it tomorrow at lunch hopefully.

Anything I put under the end of the joists will hang out of the wall in the living room right below the ceiling, like some incredibly large and ugly crown molding. Unless I notch the studs to fit it, which will weaken them, and they are weight bearing.

I added some possible repair methods to my last post, also. Leaning towards #3, 5, or 7 myself.

E: another one -
8. Use a piece of T-stock (not sure what it is called - basically an I beam with one face removed) vertically, with slots milled into one side of the top face to go around each stud. Lag bolt liberally to each stud, lag bolt liberally to each joist, possibly with vertical tabs and through bolts holding joists in place as well.
Cons: annoying to fabricate (if I weld the vertical tabs on, which is ideal)
Pros: probably easily strong enough, need to think about it more.

kastein fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Sep 22, 2013

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daggerdragon
Jan 22, 2006

My titan engine can kick your titan engine's ass.

I vote for #3 (notching studs isn't THAT bad nor unstable, but you can always add another sistered stud if you're worried about strength), followed by #7 but be very careful with load-bearing walls like that. #6 for comedy option, let the next poor sap deal with the subsequent drinking problems and "who the gently caress built this thing".

kastein posted:

I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do about this yet, I need to stare at it and mutter and drink for a while. And contemplate killing every known descendant of the morons who built and maintained this god drat shack.

This is exactly what I was doing while gutting my house. You've just articulated it much better with a whole lot less swearing. :P

Do never buy. Do never renovate.

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