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Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E



Ah thanks. I was looking for that on AT but didn't find it in the GPU section.

movax posted:

I'll answer your question with another question: is it possible for you to swap cases/motherboards to use dual-slot cards and a larger PSU? I'm just curious as to what's keeping you constrained to that selection range (i.e. you need a super quiet mini-ITX box for the living room or something).

Sorry I didn't elaborate. This is why:

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/det...ocID=MIGR-61232

As for why bother? For shits.

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Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Factory Factory posted:

Did we actually put that in the OP of this thread? Because it should be.

Nope! So, apologies, guy asking about the comparison, you wouldn't have found it if you looked.

movax posted:

Update to...660 Ti and 7950, if I recall correctly? Or did the GHz edition launch?

660Ti and 7950, but really just 660Ti for performance and value. This generation, nVidia wins price:performance in a complete sweep, unless ATI has some mega trick up their sleeve (they don't, they'd have played it by now rather than price dropping twice and losing even more executives - to goddamned nVidia, even). ATI wins absolute performance, but it doesn't matter if they're not moving units because their performance parity tiers come in about $100 higher than nVidia's.

Suggest memory overclocking, as it is almost certain to gain substantial performance the more bandwidth you can feed the hungry hungry 670 sitting behind the 192-bit bus. ~144GB/sec is bottlenecking the poo poo out of the card, raise that as much as possible and I'd imagine FPS will improve pretty dramatically.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Aug 1, 2012

movax
Aug 30, 2008



That's what I thought, I updated to this:

quote:

Now, as of 2012-07-31:

The current best values for 1080p gaming are:
Nvidia GeForce 660 Ti (memory over clocking will make it even better)
And, if you must have an AMD card, the Radeon 7950 will serve you as well. It's just a bit pricier than the 660 Ti is all.

If you want the fastest single-card publicly available:
GeForce GTX 690 (really two GPUs on one-card). Really, you should only get this if for some reason you only have room for one card and you need balls-out performance and money is no object.

Fastest single-GPU, single-card:
GeForce GTX 680 (stock), AMD Radeon 7970 (overclocked matches 680ís overclocked performance). (note: the GTX 670 nips right on the heels of the 680 for much less cash, but technically it is slower)

The fastest mobile GPU:
AMD Radeon HD 7970M

Cards from "last-generation" that will still do the job for most games at 1080p:
Nvidia GeForce GTX 560Ti
AMD Radeon 7850

e: in-flight wifi is the coolest goddamn thing

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


The 7970 GHz Edition is out. It's a ballsack-crumbling $650+ with the first wave, since the ultra-high-end, super-binned, single-slot-with-water-block SKUs have come first. But it actually ties/arguably exceeds the 680 at stock, depending on game choice and number of games sampled. Of course, it uses a lot more power to pull this off, but still; and it's a relative GPGPU powerhouse.

Also the GeForce 680M is faster than the 7970M, being essentially a lower-clocked 660 Ti vs. a 7870. The 7970 is superior in price/performance, though, and still a screamer.

Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 1, 2012

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Factory Factory posted:

The 7970 GHz Edition is out. It's a ballsack-crumbling $650+ with the first wave, since the ultra-high-end, super-binned, single-slot-with-water-block SKUs have come first. But it actually ties/arguably exceeds the 680 at stock, depending on game choice and number of games sampled. Of course, it uses a lot more power to pull this off, but still; and it's a relative GPGPU powerhouse.

Also the GeForce 680M is faster than the 7970M, being essentially a lower-clocked 660 Ti vs. a 7870. The 7970 is superior in price/performance, though, and still a screamer.

It is really bizarre but just as AMD pulled a Netburst with Bulldozer, ATI pulled a Fermi with the Southern Islands cards. nVidia went lean and segmented their products rather than their market, allowing them to budget specifically for gaming performance and as a result end up with superb chips they can afford to sell extremely competitively and still rake in the cash. ATI's "GPGPU powerhouse" is basically their Fermi, a too-general part that brings excellent brute performance but requires them to overdo virtually every aspect of their consumer lineup in really spendy ways, and they've got transistors running hotter than they need to and more logic going on than is necessary for games.

Bitcoin miners sure are in luck at least

I certainly didn't expect this to happen, it's almost the exact opposite of the last generation (except that ATI had really efficient GPGPU then, too, and probably didn't see nVidia switching lanes like this - if nVidia hadn't basically pared down what made Fermi great for gaming and amplified the poo poo out of that, they'd have big noisy hot-running cards, too, but surprise, different chips for different markets!).

It's gotta suck having the most powerful cards and it basically not mattering because you can't make any money off of them. The 660Ti being a 670-lite is just hideous for ATI, there isn't poo poo they can do unless I'm WAAAAY off in my cost estimates for their SKUs in the same performance bracket. And they already suffer a perception bias against them because "ATI has bad drivers." God drat.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Aug 1, 2012

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Just thought of something, is this the first generation since the GeForce FX5000 series where nVidia's price:performance card performs as good or better than last generation's top-end GPU? Or was there another one in there, maybe between the 8800/9800 cards and the GT200 chip generation?

Not sure how "historic" this is, but it's certainly something for people building gaming PCs. 1080p is getting absolutely royal treatment in the bang-for-your-buck category, buncha folks who normally accept turning settings down getting to crank everything in all but the most extreme, boundary-defining games and enjoy >60FPS minimums across the board.

doomisland
Oct 5, 2004



I got a question, so with my 460 GTX is it worth it to keep it in my machine as a PhysX card or is it not powerful enough to keep up with the 660 Ti. Or am I wrong with my assumptions?

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Probably fast enough if it's the 1GB version with a 256-bit memory bus. Overclock the VRAM to bring it closer to the throughput of the 660Ti. GF104 (the chip that the 460 uses) is limited in its GPGPU, but it does PhysX fine if that's all it has to do. PhysX is a highly optimized CUDA workload and GF104 should have no issues as a dedicated PhysX processor to take the workload off your graphics rendering card.

Also reconsider the whole concept, I've got the "stupid expensive version" of the same setup and the 580 mainly just sits there. I haven't given up on future GPGPU/CUDA developments that might justify it further professionally, but as far as videogames go, you have to go out of your way to find ones that support GPU-accelerated PhysX. They're super cool when you do but it's pretty damned gimmicky and not at all necessary.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Aug 1, 2012

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





Does the 660 Ti's low memory bandwidth make it a bad choice for 2560x1440 systems vs something like a 580?

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Two-parter, going to have to split it up a bit. Sorry.

Josh Lyman posted:

Does the 660 Ti's low memory bandwidth make it a bad choice for 2560x1440 systems

Yes

Josh Lyman posted:

vs something like a 580?

No, the 580 eats it in the total VRAM department when it comes to modern games at such a high resolution. It'd be vs. something like a 670 proper or a 7950, and ATI cards performance scaling at higher resolutions is superior to nVidia's this generation, sometimes making the difference between minimums above or below 30 fps in very demanding games. But all the cards under consideration will run the majority of games out there at high settings even with high resolutions. This is a high resolution friendly generation, even the relatively lower performance of nVidia's hardware past 1080p has to be taken in context as very much relatively lower, still runs like crazy.

doomisland
Oct 5, 2004



Agreed posted:

Probably fast enough if it's the 1GB version with a 256-bit memory bus. Overclock the VRAM to bring it closer to the throughput of the 660Ti. GF104 (the chip that the 460 uses) is limited in its GPGPU, but it does PhysX fine if that's all it has to do. PhysX is a highly optimized CUDA workload and GF104 should have no issues as a dedicated PhysX processor to take the workload off your graphics rendering card.

Also reconsider the whole concept, I've got the "stupid expensive version" of the same setup and the 580 mainly just sits there. I haven't given up on future GPGPU/CUDA developments that might justify it further professionally, but as far as videogames go, you have to go out of your way to find ones that support GPU-accelerated PhysX. They're super cool when you do but it's pretty damned gimmicky and not at all necessary.

Yeah I got that 256bit memory bus version. I guess I'll keep it then since it's still good. I have the Batman game on Steam but haven't ever played it so that may be a good test. Same with Mirror's Edge. If not I can just take it out after I play those games and keep it around.

craig588
Nov 19, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo


Tweak Town did some overclocking on their 660 Ti sample. http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4...cked/index.html

It doesn't overclock better than a fully enabled GK104, but they haven't been able to say anything about the quality of the factory cooler yet. They also don't have any voltage control right now so it's possible the 660 is slightly undervolted for better power efficiency.

I'm so excited for this card, even without overclocking it I was already ready to buy it as soon as it's launched. Hoping a manufacturer puts one out with a huge quiet 3 slot cooler.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Agreed posted:

No, the 580 eats it in the total VRAM department

But, the super-affordable 3GB 580s!



God, 580s were such a bad decision before, are they suddenly like $250 or something? That's the only way someone should be thinking about buying one.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Dogen posted:

But, the super-affordable 3GB 580s!



God, 580s were such a bad decision before, are they suddenly like $250 or something? That's the only way someone should be thinking about buying one.

Right now they occupy a neat space in the used market because people are letting them go pretty cheap to up to a 670-based setup. 580 is really good at CUDA (comparable performance to the mid-range Fermi Quadro cards, and quite a bit better than the entry-level which still costs $700), and it's on Adobe's short-list, making it a great choice for video editing. Mercury Engine is pretty VRAM limited and CUDA in general is, too, if a given operation can't be performed within the space of the on-board VRAM it shunts it back to the CPU. That means if you're editing something in which tasks can occupy >1.25GB but less than 1.5GB of memory, the 580's your card. And the stupid 3GB ones actually look a little less dumb. The high end Quadros and Teslas have 6GB to work with.

Of course none of the consumer cards have ECC VRAM or any of the really fancy crap, you wouldn't want to use it for incredibly high-precision simulations, but a kneecapped GF110 is still a massive performer compared to a totally unleashed GF114 (entry-level Quadro)

Also, reminder, jerkface, I have a GTX 580 and GTX 680 in my system. I mean that's just leaving money on the table. Why the hell am I giving out advice on video cards I'm that guy aaaahhhhh ahhhhh

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I know, yes. I mean, I have one too, so I am speaking from a place of understanding

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



This is a really silly question, but where I can I find some ATI/AMD merchandise? Like shirts, case badges, whatever.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

This is a really silly question, but where I can I find some ATI/AMD merchandise? Like shirts, case badges, whatever.

ebay?

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011




I didn't think of that, thanks. Was hoping for an actual store or something I suppose.

InstantInfidel
Jan 8, 2010

BEST I EVER SPENT

The 660Ti is looking really, really nice, but TweakTown is obnoxiously blunt about their dislike for Nvidia, and they bring it up in every single review, multiple times, over and over. Apparently, they're upset because they aren't being sent information about products or review units, and they have the gall to call Nvidia unprofessional while they sit and whine like children. Ugh. I wish it were Anandtech, their reviews are so much better

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



InstantInfidel posted:

The 660Ti is looking really, really nice, but TweakTown is obnoxiously blunt about their dislike for Nvidia, and they bring it up in every single review, multiple times, over and over. Apparently, they're upset because they aren't being sent information about products or review units, and they have the gall to call Nvidia unprofessional while they sit and whine like children. Ugh. I wish it were Anandtech, their reviews are so much better

It doesn't help that their game suite is laughable. HAWX2 and no BF3? Really?

InstantInfidel
Jan 8, 2010

BEST I EVER SPENT

I hadn't even looked at that. The only intensive games they have are Metro2033, Just Cause 2, and DiRT3. I mean, jeez, gaming bookmarks aren't any better than synthetic bookmarks when 2/3 of your lineup came out two generations past.

Furthermore, it seems this spat with Nvidia has been going on for years, and they have continued to make snide comments and work in multiple jabs on a page for the entire time. I'm a little skeptical of their review now; it seems almost as many words are spent badmouthing the producer as are reviewing the actual product.

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

det er noget at leve for

Gun Saliva

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

This is a really silly question, but where I can I find some ATI/AMD merchandise? Like shirts, case badges, whatever.
FrozenCPU has a bunch of ATI/AMD case badges:
http://www.frozencpu.com/search.htm...e&go.x=0&go.y=0

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


grumperfish posted:

FrozenCPU has a bunch of ATI/AMD case badges:
http://www.frozencpu.com/search.htm...e&go.x=0&go.y=0

I'm sure those AMD Athlon Thunderbird badges are flying off the virtual shelves!

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


I need one of those "P4 Killer" badges for my phone.

Corte
Jun 28, 2005


Looking for input on which GPU to upgrade to, posted in the system-building thread but figured I'd see if anyone here would chime in, I've listed 5 GPUs that are significantly marked down currently: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...0#post406232511

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

det er noget at leve for

Gun Saliva

Factory Factory posted:

I need one of those "P4 Killer" badges for my phone.
I like the idea that they have a whole section of their warehouse just full of P4 Killer boxes.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Corte posted:

Looking for input on which GPU to upgrade to, posted in the system-building thread but figured I'd see if anyone here would chime in, I've listed 5 GPUs that are significantly marked down currently: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...0#post406232511

I'd personally say the 7850 is the best option given there's no real price difference. It's the newer, lower power and slightly faster card, and the 2GB VRAM isn't to be passed up.

Instead of screwing around with DisplayPort (it brings its own fun issues), I'd recommend just getting a dirt cheap HDMI to DVI cable, like so: http://www.amazon.ca/Gold-Plated-Hi...44123517&sr=8-1

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Aug 4, 2012

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



grumperfish posted:

FrozenCPU has a bunch of ATI/AMD case badges:
http://www.frozencpu.com/search.htm...e&go.x=0&go.y=0

Yes! My inner ATI fanboy is squealing in joy right now!

Fatal
Jul 29, 2004

I'm gunna kill you BITCH!!!


HalloKitty posted:

Instead of screwing around with DisplayPort (it brings its own fun issues), I'd recommend just getting a dirt cheap HDMI to DVI cable, like so: http://www.amazon.ca/Gold-Plated-Hi...44123517&sr=8-1

Out of curiosity what fun issues are you referring too? So far I've yet to have any issues using display port in quite a few use cases: Laptop with dock single & multi monitor, laptop without dock single monitor, Desktop with multiple monitors and single monitors, all multi monitor setups with combinations of DVI/HDMI/DP. HP and Dell monitors, HP & Apple laptops, AMD and NVidia on the desktop graphics side.

Fatal fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Aug 5, 2012

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Hey guys, quick question about Nvidia and multiple monitors

Is it just the newer models that use more power when running two screens of different resolution or did it apply to older models too? Reason I ask is I run a 1920x1200 monitor and a 1080p TV off a GTX 275 at the moment which I gather isn't the most efficient card at the best of times - if its guzzling power just idling I'll replace it with something newer and more efficient.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Yes, it's a problem with yours, too. Even more so, because there are fewer power states available on a 275, just "idle" and "full on." Heck, older Nvidia cards can't even do identical monitors on idle clocks.

It's a problem for AMD cards, too, but not as much because 1) they tend to use less power in general, and 2) there are more power states between idle and full available.

Fatal posted:

Out of curiosity what fun issues are you referring too? So far I've yet to have any issues using display port in quite a few use cases: Laptop with dock single & multi monitor, laptop without dock single monitor, Desktop with multiple monitors and single monitors, all multi monitor setups with combinations of DVI/HDMI/DP. HP and Dell monitors, HP & Apple laptops, AMD and NVidia on the desktop graphics side.

Well, the automatic "power-off = disconnect" behavior can be a real pain, especially if you have hardware or earlier driver revisions therefor that sometimes drops the EDID data when you turn the monitor back on. I finally switched from DP to DVI for my main connection, because every time I accidentally hit the power button on my monitor, the system would come back with all my windows resized for a 640x480 VGA display it assumed had to be connected since it couldn't detect anything else. And if I did that when the system was asleep, it would come back as an actual 640x480 image and I had to reboot to get my monitor detected right again.

So DP's behavior of saying the monitor is disconnected just because it has turned off is a real pain in the shitter.

Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 5, 2012

Porkchop Express
Dec 24, 2009

Ten million years of absolute power. That's what it takes to be really corrupt.


I just upgraded the sorry cheap video card I had in my computer to a 550 ti, and I didn't realize just how bad my graphics looked/ran until I put that fucker in this afternoon. It may not be a new top of the line card but it works great for my needs, wish I had done this sooner.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


dissss posted:

Hey guys, quick question about Nvidia and multiple monitors

Is it just the newer models that use more power when running two screens of different resolution or did it apply to older models too? Reason I ask is I run a 1920x1200 monitor and a 1080p TV off a GTX 275 at the moment which I gather isn't the most efficient card at the best of times - if its guzzling power just idling I'll replace it with something newer and more efficient.

Yes, it's a problem with yours, too. It's probably even worse, since older Nvidia cards can't even run two identical monitors without clocking up.

It's even a problem with AMD cards, but with AMD it's significantly less of a problem than with Nvidia cards, because 1) there are more intermediate power states to take advantage of, and 2) the cards use less power in general.

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



And I can't use an ATI case badge, because my CM690 II has no space for badges


Maybe I'll just duct tape my Rage to the top of the case or something...

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Fatal posted:

Out of curiosity what fun issues are you referring too? So far I've yet to have any issues using display port in quite a few use cases: Laptop with dock single & multi monitor, laptop without dock single monitor, Desktop with multiple monitors and single monitors, all multi monitor setups with combinations of DVI/HDMI/DP. HP and Dell monitors, HP & Apple laptops, AMD and NVidia on the desktop graphics side.

The fact it disconnects the monitor when you turn the monitor off, in Windows. That's all.

real_scud
Sep 5, 2002

One of these days these elbows are gonna walk all over you


HalloKitty posted:

The fact it disconnects the monitor when you turn the monitor off, in Windows. That's all.
Which is super loving annoying if you happen to use one of your monitors for say, displaying your 360, every time you switch to the 360 input it'll act like the monitor disappeared from the computer.

So all your icons will get jacked up, only to fix themselves when you go back to the DisplayPort input.

Fish Cake
Jun 13, 2008

woof


real_scud posted:

Which is super loving annoying if you happen to use one of your monitors for say, displaying your 360, every time you switch to the 360 input it'll act like the monitor disappeared from the computer.

So all your icons will get jacked up, only to fix themselves when you go back to the DisplayPort input.

I've never had this issue with my DP monitor and I switch between my DP computer input and DVI PS3 input all the time, nor does it lose connection to the monitor when it's powered off. Weird. I've heard of out-of-spec DP cables causing other strange issues, maybe this is the problem?

real_scud
Sep 5, 2002

One of these days these elbows are gonna walk all over you


Fish Cake posted:

I've never had this issue with my DP monitor and I switch between my DP computer input and DVI PS3 input all the time, nor does it lose connection to the monitor when it's powered off. Weird. I've heard of out-of-spec DP cables causing other strange issues, maybe this is the problem?
Maybe? I bought some DP cables from Monoprice so I don't think they're really out of spec. Do you happen to have a link to where you bought your cables?

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006

hey bb u want sum fuk?

I SURVIVED THE AWFUL BLOCK, AGDQ 2018





Hey, I am in the market to upgrade my GPU. I'm currently running the following setup:

Intel i7-2600K @ 3.4 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 470

I've been looking at the current 6XX series of GTX cards, and I think the best in terms of price vs performance is the GTX 670. I also looked at the 560 TI but it looks like the 670 blows it out of the water when I looked at some comparison reviews between the two. Does anyone have any suggestions, or is the 670 a good decision? Money's not too important of a factor, but I don't want to drop $1000 for a GPU. I'm going to be doing some fairly high level gaming, and I generally just want to keep my gaming PC as current as possible. I typically upgrade after two-three years and it's about that time again.

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Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Yeah I think a GTX 670 would be a good choice, though you may want to consider whether you're really going to see a difference in your experience that will justify the upgrade. Here's a direct comparison between the GTX 470 and GTX 670 from Anandtech.

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