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Daviclond
May 20, 2006

Bad post sighted! Firing.

Jago posted:

Is it a density/surface area ratio thing?

Yes. Copper makes for better fins (its higher conductivity makes fins more effective), however it is heavier and more expensive. Designs can therefore use larger arrays of aluminium fins with greater surface area than could be achieved with copper for overall better heat transfer performance - or equal performance at lower cost.

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veedubfreak
Apr 2, 2005

by Smythe


It comes down to copper is heavy and expensive vs aluminum being cheap and light. Use copper for the contact with the chip which then sends the heat via thermal tubing to cheap and light aluminum. A full copper cooler would be heavy as hell.

This is another reason why waterblocks are expensive, it's a huge chunk of copper.

Octopode
Sep 2, 2009

No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here.

Don't know if this has been posted earlier in this thread, but I wanted to keep anyone else from repeatedly bashing their heads into things trying to troubleshoot like I was doing.

If you've recently installed an EVGA GTX 980 card on an older motherboard (probably also applicable to 970s and other manufacturers), and you find that your computer has now started booting incredibly slowly while your GPU beeps at you pitifully, it turns out there is probably an easy fix.

Go into your BIOS/UEFI settings, and find an option labeled PCI ROM Priority. It should have two options, either EFI Compatible or Legacy ROM. Change it to Legacy ROM, and your woes will (maybe) be over.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Octopode posted:

Don't know if this has been posted earlier in this thread, but I wanted to keep anyone else from repeatedly bashing their heads into things trying to troubleshoot like I was doing.

If you've recently installed an EVGA GTX 980 card on an older motherboard (probably also applicable to 970s and other manufacturers), and you find that your computer has now started booting incredibly slowly while your GPU beeps at you pitifully, it turns out there is probably an easy fix.

Go into your BIOS/UEFI settings, and find an option labeled PCI ROM Priority. It should have two options, either EFI Compatible or Legacy ROM. Change it to Legacy ROM, and your woes will (maybe) be over.

Alternatively, go on evga forums and ask for a UEFI bios.

Radio Talmudist
Sep 29, 2008


Do you guys have case fan recommendations? I mean in terms of manufacturers. Is there a CFM I should be aiming for, or some other factor I need to consider?

veedubfreak
Apr 2, 2005

by Smythe


Radio Talmudist posted:

Do you guys have case fan recommendations? I mean in terms of manufacturers. Is there a CFM I should be aiming for, or some other factor I need to consider?

This is opening a can of worms. It all really depends on what you plan to use them for and what you want to spend.

My rig is full of yate loons because they're dirt cheap and reasonably quiet when undervolted.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Radio Talmudist posted:

Do you guys have case fan recommendations? I mean in terms of manufacturers. Is there a CFM I should be aiming for, or some other factor I need to consider?

Air Penetrator fans from Silver Stone provide good directional air volume. Noctua makes industrial, very high static pressure fans. Delta makes really loud, really high CFM fans. It's all about what you want.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Bitfenix's Spectre Pro fans make for excellent case fans at a decent cost.

It's probably not worth min-maxing your fans, in terms of payoff for getting THE BEST compared to using Spectre Pros for cases and Noctua NF-Fxx fans for radiators, when you consider how much you have to learn about fans and how sucky and inaccurate the manufacturer specs are on most of them.

Inverness
Feb 4, 2009

Fully configurable personal assistant.

The recent release of Far Cry 4 and Dragon Age Inquisition has made me feel like it's about time to upgrade my GPU. Even though I seem to be able to run both games well enough on my GTX 560 Ti, I want more.

I got lucky and managed to find an EVGA GTX 970 FTW in stock at Fry's. I'm awaiting delivery tomorrow.

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

Radio Talmudist posted:

Do you guys have case fan recommendations? I mean in terms of manufacturers. Is there a CFM I should be aiming for, or some other factor I need to consider?

I just recently replaced my Lian Li OEM fans with some Cougar Vortex PWM Hydro Dynamic Bearing fans. They seem to move enough air and are quite. A+++ would buy again.

veedubfreak
Apr 2, 2005

by Smythe


Last time I bought fans, these were pretty much the best $:cfm winner.
http://www.amazon.com/Yate-120mm-Sp.../ref=pd_cp_pc_0

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

I got the Mini-ITX Gigabyte 970 card. Benchmarking it, it runs about 5C cooler than the base Zotac card, but it also overclocks 50mhz lower than the Zotac so that's not so great. It is very short and leaves one-and-a-third of the three fan Gigabyte model unblocked in SLI, allowing the top card to never break 80c (dual Zotacs in SLI had the top card hitting 91 in the same situation).

Any idea why in Afterburner, it always shows as a slightly lower frequency than the 3-fan Gigabyte card, even when they are in SLI? I thought Afterburner is supposed to synchronize them. The cards do have different BIOS versions.

Also, the card is *heavy*. 629 grams to the Zotac's 510, even though it is shorter. Build quality is super solid, they actually drive some steel bolts through one part of the heatsink. Much better build quality than the three-fan Gigabyte actually.


Edit: Also the ram overclocks higher on Gigabyte than Zotac. Now I'm up to 160mhz core clock boost, I'm winding up in SLI with 178 FPS, Score 4483 score on Heaven with dual Gigabyte SLI. Dual Zotac SLI only got 172.8 FPS, Score 4353 since the ram couldn't pump half as much before artifacting.

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Nov 21, 2014

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


Can you confirm which new nVidia features work together so far in SLI? For example, is DSR still working for you at increased SLI frame rates, perhaps even with MFAA enabled?

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Can you confirm which new nVidia features work together so far in SLI? For example, is DSR still working for you at increased SLI frame rates, perhaps even with MFAA enabled?

I have no idea how I'm supposed to test all that. Why wouldn't any of it work? SLI just alternates frames between two identical cards, so none of those features should function any different.

Jan
Feb 26, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.

Zero VGS posted:

I have no idea how I'm supposed to test all that. Why wouldn't any of it work? SLI just alternates frames between two identical cards, so none of those features should function any different.

Any feature that samples previous frames is not going to work in AFR, since it would have to pass the frames through the PCI-E bus and pretty much murder your latency.

I don't think DSR requires previous frames, but TXAA for instance does.

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


I was on a different forum and someone posted in the negative regarding a lot of these features together. He may have been BSing a fake personal anecdote just to scare people.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Jan posted:

Any feature that samples previous frames is not going to work in AFR, since it would have to pass the frames through the PCI-E bus and pretty much murder your latency.

I don't think DSR requires previous frames, but TXAA for instance does.

Oh, neat. Makes me wonder why the VR SLI is exclusive to VR, since rendering each half of the screen one one card could fix those issues. If they rendered top and bottom half of the monitor, instead of microstutter when the cards don't sync I'd imagine it'd look more like screen tearing.

Hamburger Test
Jul 2, 2007

Sure hope this works!

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

I just got a MSI 970 and I think I may have "the fan issue".

Came back to the computer after an hour of not using it and I heard the fan spinning wildly.

1) what's the fan issue exactly?
2) is there a fix?

1) One fan "ticks" very slightly, failing to spin up. The other goes to full speed. Nudge the stalled fan and it spins up, the card then stops both fans and goes into silent mode assuming it's below 60C.

2) RMA, or set a custom profile.

Jan
Feb 26, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.

Zero VGS posted:

Oh, neat. Makes me wonder why the VR SLI is exclusive to VR, since rendering each half of the screen one one card could fix those issues. If they rendered top and bottom half of the monitor, instead of microstutter when the cards don't sync I'd imagine it'd look more like screen tearing.

This exists in some fashion already, it's Split Frame Rendering. However, it's not really appropriate for modern games due to the same cross-GPU sync issues: deferred renderers will occasionally need to sample G buffers across the frame boundary, and post-processing will definitely cross that boundary.



On the other hand, since each eye in VR is separate and you definitely do NOT want to sample across each eye, SFR can uniquely be made to work in this situation. I imagine most of the tech behind it is supporting this and reducing latency as much as possible.

Radio Talmudist
Sep 29, 2008


Thanks for the fan recommendations. I've been playing with my side panel off because my R9 290 fans are so much quieter. I have a single exhaust fan at the back, so I'm thinking of grabbing one fan for intake at the side.

Out of curiosity, aside from the obvious dangers of having your parts exposed by having your side panel open to the world, do you guys think airflow is better by having the side panel simply removed or would having an intake fan be ultimately better? Not that I'm going to keep my side panel off, but I'm curious.

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

det er noget at leve for

Gun Saliva

Radio Talmudist posted:

Thanks for the fan recommendations. I've been playing with my side panel off because my R9 290 fans are so much quieter. I have a single exhaust fan at the back, so I'm thinking of grabbing one fan for intake at the side.

Out of curiosity, aside from the obvious dangers of having your parts exposed by having your side panel open to the world, do you guys think airflow is better by having the side panel simply removed or would having an intake fan be ultimately better? Not that I'm going to keep my side panel off, but I'm curious.
If temperatures are better with the side panel off, all it means is you have a poor intake/exhaust balance in the case or the case has inadequate airflow. Ideally you want good case airflow, where removing the side panel would actually make temperatures slightly worse.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


cisco privilege posted:

where removing the side panel would actually make temperatures slightly worse.

This would never be the case though except in some edge cases (re: server chasis).

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


Stanley Pain posted:

This would never be the case though except in some edge cases (re: server chasis).

If I take the side panel off of my case my GPU fan spins up significantly almost immediately. This isn't a special server case or OEM build where the system knows the side panel has been removed, it's just an ordinary Cooler Master Centurion 5 running the exact same fans it had when I bought it 10 years ago.

edit: I should say it did do that back before I had the Multi-Display Power Saver running when it idled at ~900MHz. Now idling at ~150 MHz it doesn't really change temperature when the case is opened.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Nov 21, 2014

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

det er noget at leve for

Gun Saliva

Stanley Pain posted:

This would never be the case though except in some edge cases (re: server chasis).
I'm not talking about actually requiring forced air cooling. It's simply better to have good airflow so that you're not pushed into having to choose between either much higher GPU noise or a completely open case like the previous poster.

Most people using semi-modern cases and hardware won't really need to even think about it, but if you're opening a large void on the side of your case and temperatures noticeably improve then something about your cooling setup is hosed.

future ghost fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 21, 2014

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


cisco privilege posted:

I'm not talking about actually requiring forced air cooling. It's simply better to have good airflow so that you're not pushed into having to choose between either much higher GPU noise or a completely open case like the previous poster.

Most people using semi-modern cases and hardware won't really need to even think about it, but if you're opening a large void on the side of your case and temperatures noticeably improve then something about your cooling setup is hosed.

I don't disagree that if you open up the side of your case you shouldn't see a dramatic drop in temperature. However, you said you should see an INCREASE in temp if you do so. That's just plain wrong and would never, ever happen unless you have some crazy wind tunnel ducting setup inside your case.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


Err, no, it will happen to a bunch of video cards with open coolers since they depend on the rest of the case moving the hot air from around them, if you open the case the hot air stays around to feed the fans instead of being taken out the back (and shot).

Wengy
Feb 6, 2008



I feel like the biggest noob ever - got my 970 today and it doesn't fit in my loving case Wtf, when did GPUs get so loving big, this is ridiculous. Now I can't play this weekend and will have to get a new tower on Monday and move all my hardware over, gently caress this poo poo

Arishtat
Jan 2, 2011



Wengy posted:

I feel like the biggest noob ever - got my 970 today and it doesn't fit in my loving case Wtf, when did GPUs get so loving big, this is ridiculous. Now I can't play this weekend and will have to get a new tower on Monday and move all my hardware over, gently caress this poo poo

You bought a Gigabyte card didn't you?

I measured my case ahead of time and it still doesn't clear my case's hard disk trays by much and my case is one of those monster Fractal Design R4s.

Wengy
Feb 6, 2008



Arishtat posted:

You bought a Gigabyte card didn't you?

I measured my case ahead of time and it still doesn't clear my case's hard disk trays by much and my case is one of those monster Fractal Design R4s.

Nah it's the Asus. I thought I was safe because I already have a relatively recent card (660 Ti) and I just figured it'd be about the same size. Dammit, I didn't want to spend this much money and time on this poo poo, just wanted to pop in the card and play some FC4. I'm pretty poo poo with computers so it's gonna take ages to move the mainboard and everything over to the new case. Ugh.

Kragger99
Mar 21, 2004



Pillbug

Wengy posted:

Nah it's the Asus. I thought I was safe because I already have a relatively recent card (660 Ti) and I just figured it'd be about the same size. Dammit, I didn't want to spend this much money and time on this poo poo, just wanted to pop in the card and play some FC4. I'm pretty poo poo with computers so it's gonna take ages to move the mainboard and everything over to the new case. Ugh.

When I upgraded from a 6870 to a 670 ASUS, I also was surprised at the length. Needed to remove some HD caddy (or fan?) brackets to make it fit. I looked up the length of the 980 card (which I'm planning on getting soon), and I think it'll fit.
Yup - new cards are large/long

The Gunslinger
Jul 24, 2004

Do not forget the face of your father.

Fun Shoe

Wengy posted:

Nah it's the Asus. I thought I was safe because I already have a relatively recent card (660 Ti) and I just figured it'd be about the same size. Dammit, I didn't want to spend this much money and time on this poo poo, just wanted to pop in the card and play some FC4. I'm pretty poo poo with computers so it's gonna take ages to move the mainboard and everything over to the new case. Ugh.

Is this something fixable with a dremel? If so then get to it

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





How stupid is it to sell my 290, which I assume I'll get $200 for after fees and shipping, then buy a 970 for $350, just to satisfy my OCD of having a lower power, more performance efficient card? I do have a 1440p primary, but I don't game that much.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


If you already have a good card, id just wait for 20nm gpus.

joe football
Dec 22, 2012


How much should a slow cpu effect benchmarking? I have a stock 2500k and zoltac 970, and I'm getting around 9k graphics score in 3d mark firestrike

Ak Gara
Jul 29, 2005

That's just the way he rolls.

2500k's aren't slouches and most games aren't cpu bottlenecked.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...is-II,3175.html

Do a search for 2500k to find yours, (118 fps) vs the very top of the chart (122 fps)

Valicious
Aug 16, 2010


After installing the 980m upgrade kit in my Alienware M17x R5, I've been attempting to get it to output in 4K resolution on my samsung uhd tv. The tv has the latest firmware and I've tried enabling UHD colors. However, after installing the 980m, it defaults to outputting via the onboard Intel chip. I've tried upgrading the motherboard firmware which made no difference as well as disabling the intel card with the discrete graphics key(Fn+F5), but that makes the laptop completely inoperable, as it seems to have issues detecting and using the 980m outside of Windows.

eggyolk
Nov 8, 2007



My i3 2100T has been amazing at every game thrown at it. I'm hoping to upgrade to a 970 and still don't expect to feel any slack on the CPU end. A 2500K should be absolutely fine.

Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>


eggyolk posted:

My i3 2100T has been amazing at every game thrown at it. I'm hoping to upgrade to a 970 and still don't expect to feel any slack on the CPU end. A 2500K should be absolutely fine.

You're nuts.

eggyolk
Nov 8, 2007



In this review the i3 is 4 fps slower than an equivalent i5, but 10 fps faster than an FX-8350. Doesn't seem crazy in a budget gaming system. I'm holding out for the GTX 960, which will hopefully sip even less power than it's bigger siblings. Reports suggest it will have 4GB and a 256-bit interface with only shaders sacrificed. Should be the perfect 1080p gaming card.

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Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>


The i3 in that review runs @3.3Ghz, while yours runs at @2.5Ghz, and is also a IB chip (which isn't that much faster than SB, but still).

You also have to consider that Far Cry 4 is basically just a modified FC3, so it's unsurprising that it isn't very CPU dependent.

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