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repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Twerk from Home posted:

I'd bet you can't run the overclocked no firmware Korean monitors at 96hz with that though.

You can't, which is why I used that example. Active DP-DVI adapters don't work either.

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veedubfreak
Apr 2, 2005

by Smythe


Twerk from Home posted:

I'd bet you can't run the overclocked no firmware Korean monitors at 96hz with that though.

I'm betting there are fewer people overclocking Korean monitors than there are people who own Titan X video cards. What I'm saying is that this will affect .00000000000000000001% of video card buyers.

Just remember that DVI adds cost to the card due to licensing and the clock. Display port doesn't have to deal with either.

Kweh! Wark! Kweh!
May 16, 2008

Meat buns?


Twerk from Home posted:

What're you calling a "really good deal"? I'd actually be staying away from the 280/X at this point just because of how old and behind on features they are. Keep in mind that they were originally released in December 2011.

Edit: I'm all about cheap 290 though. If you spot a custom cooler 290 under $220 again, and are looking for an upgrade right now, snag it.

189 shipped + free 835W Raidmax PSU. I could sell the PSU on ebay for 50 dollars or so. (I wouldn't put that thing in my rig.)

Maybe I should just wait for the 300 series and see what's up.

I'm running dual monitors, 27" BenQ @ 1080p, so nothing insane, but the 6850 is starting struggle.

sauer kraut posted:

AMD 280 is really old tech and you can get a slightly less outdated 290 for only a few bucks more these days. I've seen one for 239USD on newegg yesterday.
Otherwise it's impossible to say without knowing the new chips' capabilities. If they were any good you'd assume AMD would leak and tout that poo poo all over the place.

Thanks for all the info. I'm upgrading from a HD 6850, so I'm kind of out of the loop. (Plus I tend to really milk my hardware for years.) I'm trying to keep the replacement under 200USD.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Can I sell my 290x and get something with comparable performance (GPGPU) with 2 DP outs without too much extra $?

spasticColon
Sep 22, 2004

In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

This is very tempting because it comes with a free copy of GTAV:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814202143

If you consider the cost of the game you're getting the card for $210 so yay or nay?

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Shaocaholica posted:

Can I sell my 290x and get something with comparable performance (GPGPU) with 2 DP outs without too much extra $?

Depends what you're doing with GPGPU, the GTX970 can be had with 3xDP and is comparable or even faster in single precision workloads but fails miserably in double precision due to nVidias deliberate gimping.

I don't think any AMD GPUs fit the bill.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


Kweh! Wark! Kweh! posted:

189 shipped + free 835W Raidmax PSU. I could sell the PSU on ebay for 50 dollars or so. (I wouldn't put that thing in my rig.)

Maybe I should just wait for the 300 series and see what's up.

I'm running dual monitors, 27" BenQ @ 1080p, so nothing insane, but the 6850 is starting struggle.


Thanks for all the info. I'm upgrading from a HD 6850, so I'm kind of out of the loop. (Plus I tend to really milk my hardware for years.) I'm trying to keep the replacement under 200USD.

I would definitely wait a month if you can

89
Feb 24, 2006

#worldchamps


I've got a 650 Ti Boost in a really powerful computer I built. Am I better off spending $80 to get another 650 and SLIing them or save that $80 and apply it towards a 960 or whatever? Is there performance jump of one 900 series big enough to trump the idea of two 650 series cards?

Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>


First of all that would work since the 650 ti boost is a different card from a 650, and regardless yeah you would be way better served just saving up regardless.

Kweh! Wark! Kweh!
May 16, 2008

Meat buns?


THE DOG HOUSE posted:

I would definitely wait a month if you can

I can wait it out, definitely.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


89 posted:

I've got a 650 Ti Boost in a really powerful computer I built. Am I better off spending $80 to get another 650 and SLIing them or save that $80 and apply it towards a 960 or whatever? Is there performance jump of one 900 series big enough to trump the idea of two 650 series cards?

It's almost never worthwhile to SLI unless you're running a flagship or second-tier card (x80 or x70). Definitely not with that card. Get yourself a 960 or 970 instead, maybe flip your 650ti to help offset it.

sauer kraut
Oct 2, 2004


spasticColon posted:

This is very tempting because it comes with a free copy of GTAV:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814202143

If you consider the cost of the game you're getting the card for $210 so yay or nay?

Sapph Tri-x or Vapor-x are considered good AMD cards, if your power supply can handle a 300W hog it's a fair offer.
That said it's only tempting if you really, really want GTA5 over a Batman+Witcher 970 bundle for 300$.

sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 02:59 on May 13, 2015

Kairos
Oct 29, 2007

It's like taking a drug. At first it seems you can control it, but before you know it you'll be hooked.

My advice: 'Just say no' to communism.


So, I'm looking at buying a GTX 970 soon. I was getting close to pulling the trigger on it, but I've been reading that AMD is going to release new cards next month. I doubt this will have any impact on what card I choose to buy, but do people who have experience with the market trends for this stuff have any idea how likely a price cut on the 970 in response would be? And more to the point, how cheap is it likely to get?

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



Kairos posted:

So, I'm looking at buying a GTX 970 soon. I was getting close to pulling the trigger on it, but I've been reading that AMD is going to release new cards next month. I doubt this will have any impact on what card I choose to buy, but do people who have experience with the market trends for this stuff have any idea how likely a price cut on the 970 in response would be? And more to the point, how cheap is it likely to get?

Since it looks like only the top end AMD cards will actually be full on new cards I'd say a price drop seems unlikely, but it also can't hurt to wait and see unless it's fairly urgent that you get a new card ASAP. Unless AMD does something completely unexpected I think you would be plenty happy with a 970, especially in light of the two free games you get with it right now.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!



Also, take a look at the individual game you want to play. I'm into Project CARS, which uses some feature of DX11 I forget what its called (multi command lists?) that's multi-threaded, and AMD just hasn't done anything in their drivers in that zone and get about 50% the performance of the nVidia equivalents. Basically forces me to buy team green.

Captain Yossarian
Feb 24, 2011

All new" Rings of Fire"


LiquidRain posted:

Also, take a look at the individual game you want to play. I'm into Project CARS, which uses some feature of DX11 I forget what its called (multi command lists?) that's multi-threaded, and AMD just hasn't done anything in their drivers in that zone and get about 50% the performance of the nVidia equivalents. Basically forces me to buy team green.

You could just wait a little while? I haven't read anything that indicates this can't be patched

Psmith
May 7, 2007
The p is silent, as in phthisis, psychic, and ptarmigan.

I've kept an eye on this thread over the past few months as I've planned on buying a 970. I'm finally pulling the trigger either today or tomorrow. It is my understanding that MSI is the way to go at this point so I planned on grabbing this:

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GTX-970-4...s/dp/B00NN0GEXQ

But I had two questions: First, is MSI still the best choice or should I be looking at a different card? Second, will my older CPU cause any issues with playing newer games? It is this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115072

Also, this is for a 1080 display and I rarely OC

Psmith fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 13, 2015

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


AFAIK the MSI still has the best cooler of the ones available, so yeah it's still a great pick unless you can find the ASUS or the EVGA ACX 2.0+ like $30 cheaper or something. I bought the same card a few months ago now and love it.

Also, I think there's several people in this thread who use that 2500K and it's still pretty common, especially if OCed, so you should be fine. I use the generation after that, the 3570k, with no issues I've found (that can't be blamed on the game and not the hardware).

eggyolk
Nov 8, 2007



If replacing your motherboard and upgrading your Sandy Bridge 2500K to a current i5 is worth the extra 1 fps in most games then absolutely go for it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389580

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



Psmith posted:

I've kept an eye on this thread over the past few months as I've planned on buying a 970. I'm finally pulling the trigger either today or tomorrow. It is my understanding that MSI is the way to go at this point so I planned on grabbing this:

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GTX-970-4...s/dp/B00NN0GEXQ

But I had two questions: First, is MSI still the best choice or should I be looking at a different card? Second, will my older CPU cause any issues with playing newer games? It is this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115072

Also, this is for a 1080 display and I rarely OC

That is the same MSI card that everyone recommends, and as far as I know it's still the best choice, the ASUS Strix 970 would also be a good choice.

I have a i7 2600k and a 970 and everything runs great on it at 1080p so a i5 2500k should be plenty, though I will note that I OC my CPU to 4.6Ghz and that gives a very large performance boost so if you are not OCing already you should buy a decent cooler for $30-$40 and bump that 2500k to 4.5Ghz or so.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Psmith posted:

I've kept an eye on this thread over the past few months as I've planned on buying a 970. I'm finally pulling the trigger either today or tomorrow. It is my understanding that MSI is the way to go at this point so I planned on grabbing this:

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GTX-970-4...s/dp/B00NN0GEXQ

But I had two questions: First, is MSI still the best choice or should I be looking at a different card? Second, will my older CPU cause any issues with playing newer games? It is this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115072

Also, this is for a 1080 display and I rarely OC

Not oc'ing Sandy Bridge is faintly ridiculous. 2500K is still competitive, and overclocks better than the CPUs that follow, to the point where you can easily close the gap on the newer chips. For gaming, it simply wouldn't be worth replacing it.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


eggyolk posted:

If replacing your motherboard and upgrading your Sandy Bridge 2500K to a current i5 is worth the extra 1 fps in most games then absolutely go for it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389580

Interesting to see the games that improved though, which is rare info to come by. And really the difference is in online play, which is rarely benchmarked. But when oc'd I think its safe to say it isn't worth the money

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Captain Yossarian posted:

You could just wait a little while? I haven't read anything that indicates this can't be patched

There's nothing stopping AMD from adding support for DX11 command lists to enable multi-threading, but given their approach over the last 6+ years has been I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Maybe something else is to blame but it's pretty conspicuous that a game which uses DX11 MT appears to be CPU bottlenecking on the driver that doesn't support DX11 MT.

repiv fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 13, 2015

Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

If I had to guess why they can't be bothered, it looks like AMD put a lot of resources into mantle in the last 5 or so years, then mantle got kinda cancelled because DX12 appeared as soon microsoft saw mantle, so now they're scrambling to get at least that working before nvidia kills them there too. as

Captain Yossarian
Feb 24, 2011

All new" Rings of Fire"


repiv posted:

There's nothing stopping AMD from adding support for DX11 command lists, but given their approach over the last 6+ years has been I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Maybe something else is to blame but it's pretty conspicuous that a game which uses DX11 MT appears to be CPU bottlenecking on the driver that doesn't support DX11 MT.

I'm not interested in Project Cars so I won't get my hopes up lol. Thanks for the info though. I'm curious, are there any articles out there on AMD and dx11 MT or is this a pretty recent thing?

89
Feb 24, 2006

#worldchamps


The 960 is much more in my budget than the 970 is. Thing is, I stick to 1080p. Cause I like to shoot Steam over to my 65" plasma in my living room. Is the 970 a little overkill for just 1080p or is the 960 much more suited as the ideal 1080p card?

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010





Truga posted:

If I had to guess why they can't be bothered, it looks like AMD put a lot of resources into mantle in the last 5 or so years, then mantle got kinda cancelled because DX12 appeared as soon microsoft saw mantle, so now they're scrambling to get at least that working before nvidia kills them there too. as
They handed Mantle to Khronos as a starting point for Vulkan so it wouldn't be in committee hell during the early design stage.

Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

Yeah, but I think that only happened recently? Either way, they need to do dx12 support, and I'm not sure they can use their current code from anything for that.

On the bright side, it means dx12 drivers might ahahahahahaha no.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Captain Yossarian posted:

I'm not interested in Project Cars so I won't get my hopes up lol. Thanks for the info though. I'm curious, are there any articles out there on AMD and dx11 MT or is this a pretty recent thing?

There's no articles AFAIK but the short version is: DX11 has always supported multi-threading but it never saw much adoption, since games usually weren't pushing enough draw calls to justify the extra baseline overhead of using it.

When a game does do a shitload of draw calls, such as when it's designed with the PS4/XB1s fast multi-threaded APIs in mind, it's not hard to see where nVidias advantage comes from.

DX12/Vulkan will fix this but that's no consolation to people who want to play Project CARS vv

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



89 posted:

The 960 is much more in my budget than the 970 is. Thing is, I stick to 1080p. Cause I like to shoot Steam over to my 65" plasma in my living room. Is the 970 a little overkill for just 1080p or is the 960 much more suited as the ideal 1080p card?

The 970 is prefect for 1080p, the 960 is a pretty big step down, if you can't afford to get a 970 I would aim for a 290 instead. Also remember that with a 970 you get TW3 and the new Batman game free, so work that into your calculations. At worst you can sell each of those codes for $30-$40 and save yourself $60-$80 on the 970.

Psmith
May 7, 2007
The p is silent, as in phthisis, psychic, and ptarmigan.

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll be pulling the trigger on the MSI 970 and will definitely look into OC'ing the i5.

89
Feb 24, 2006

#worldchamps


AVeryLargeRadish posted:

The 970 is prefect for 1080p, the 960 is a pretty big step down, if you can't afford to get a 970 I would aim for a 290 instead. Also remember that with a 970 you get TW3 and the new Batman game free, so work that into your calculations. At worst you can sell each of those codes for $30-$40 and save yourself $60-$80 on the 970.

I didn't even think of that. I was already gonna drop $60 on the Xbone version of Batman. But, if it's included for free...not to mention it would look better than the Xbone version (I'm assuming)...that kinda makes it more like:

GTX 960 - $180
- $80ish for selling the 650 Ti Boost
+ $60 for Arkham Knight Xbone
= $160 total

GTX 970 - $330
- $80ish for selling the 650 Ti Boost
- $30 saving on not buying Batman Xbone
- $35 selling Witcher 3
= $185 total

$25 difference. Seems I've answered my own question. Maybe I'd keep Witcher cause it's pretty..

The card posted up top is the one to get?

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GTX-970-4...s/dp/B00NN0GEXQ

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun


So I hope this question belongs itt, but imo it seems like the best fit.

I recently upgraded my system to 64bit with win 8.1, and after setting up everything I see that my system is stretching old 4:3 games to fit my widescreen monitor. I could swear that there was a setting in my Nvidia panel to keep old stuff native with letterboxing, but I can't seem to find it. Am I wrong in thinking that this should be handled through the GPU control software?


E: Never mind, I found it. The wording in the options menu just threw me off

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 13, 2015

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.



89 posted:

I didn't even think of that. I was already gonna drop $60 on the Xbone version of Batman. But, if it's included for free...not to mention it would look better than the Xbone version (I'm assuming)...that kinda makes it more like:

GTX 960 - $180
- $80ish for selling the 650 Ti Boost
+ $60 for Arkham Knight Xbone
= $160 total

GTX 970 - $330
- $80ish for selling the 650 Ti Boost
- $30 saving on not buying Batman Xbone
- $35 selling Witcher 3
= $185 total

$25 difference. Seems I've answered my own question. Maybe I'd keep Witcher cause it's pretty..

The card posted up top is the one to get?

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GTX-970-4...s/dp/B00NN0GEXQ

Yeah, Batman will look better on the PC and yeah, that is the card that most recommend as the best version of the 970.

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

patton oswalt, aka:

- the bloodguzzler
- parton osmart
- the krustbuster
- bloodlard
- pat "the ton" owsdtwslalt
- the big patswald
- wifemurderer
- fentanyl prostate injection

repiv posted:

There's no articles AFAIK but the short version is: DX11 has always supported multi-threading but it never saw much adoption, since games usually weren't pushing enough draw calls to justify the extra baseline overhead of using it.

When a game does do a shitload of draw calls, such as when it's designed with the PS4/XB1s fast multi-threaded APIs in mind, it's not hard to see where nVidias advantage comes from.

DX12/Vulkan will fix this but that's no consolation to people who want to play Project CARS vv

The bulk of the overhead on current APIs comes from having to do state tracking and validation every step of the way which makes draw calls and state changes really expensive. Being able to build command lists in a multi-threaded manner helps a bit, but not that much when the main bottleneck is the state tracking and validation (and horrid per-application hacks) in the driver.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I'm just crossing my fingers that Witcher 3 at 3440x1440 performs just fine on a GTX 970. RAM and disk shouldn't be a problem at least, and with an i7-4790k I'm going to be slightly pissed if CPU is a factor.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


I must be the only person who's looking forward to being able to buy a Strix 4gb 750ti. That would be a fantastic card for low power compute applications. Yeah it'll probably be up there with a 960 in cost, but it'll use <50% the power.

I do wish they could widen the memory bus on it though. 128-bit is tiny, I'd much rather have a 192-bit bus. Memory bandwidth is one area where AMD totally smokes NVIDIA.

I'm really tempted to get one of the refurb EVGA 750ti Superclockeds that Newegg has for $110 but I just know that if I do the 4gb version will be on shelves tomorrow

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 13, 2015

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

89 posted:

The card posted up top is the one to get?

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GTX-970-4...s/dp/B00NN0GEXQ

Other than making sure you can physically fit the card in your case first, yes. MSI Gaming 4G and the ASUS Strix are the two 'best' 970s, with the Gigabyte coming in third simply because of card size and extra noise.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Paul MaudDib posted:

I must be the only person who's looking forward to being able to buy a Strix 4gb 750ti. That would be a fantastic card for low power compute applications. Yeah it'll probably be up there with a 960 in cost, but it'll use <50% the power.

I do wish they could widen the memory bus on it though. 128-bit is tiny, I'd much rather have a 192-bit bus. Memory bandwidth is one area where AMD totally smokes NVIDIA.

I'm really tempted to get one of the refurb EVGA 750ti Superclockeds that Newegg has for $110 but I just know that if I do the 4gb version will be on shelves tomorrow

I'm not even sure if that bandwidth will mean anything, ultimately. They added color compression with the 285, and while I doubt that the pipe will be roomy enough as to merit comparisons to hot dogs being thrown down hallways, what will it mean if you're not pushing 4K@60?

Also, if a 4GB 960 is a bad deal, why would you get a 4GB card with an even gimpier chip?

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Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


SwissArmyDruid posted:

I'm not even sure if that bandwidth will mean anything, ultimately. They added color compression with the 285, and while I doubt that the pipe will be roomy enough as to merit comparisons to hot dogs being thrown down hallways, what will it mean if you're not pushing 4K@60?

Also, if a 4GB 960 is a bad deal, why would you get a 4GB card with an even gimpier chip?

Because the 750ti pulls 50-60% less power than the 960ti. You get a quasi-desktop level of performance (~50% of the 960 in Luxmark) with many models running entirely off the PCI-E socket (so you can run things like picoPSUs for silent builds), and it's offered in useful form factors (eg you can pick from single slot types, passively cooled types, etc). The alternative is something like the Jetson TK-1 which (a) had some quirks the last time I checked, like needing to warm up before the memory will hit full B/W, (b) is an order of magnitude less powerful (and less power-hungry, TDP is 5W), and (c) is ARM so have fun with drivers.

The idea I've been wanting to toy with is building a portable augmented reality system using an Oculus Rift and some 60fps cameras. Ideally you'd get the GPU to do the heavy lifting on the computer vision type stuff, like how the Xbone uses its GPU to do the kinect, and at the same time it would need to draw a pair of 1080p streams from the cameras fast enough to avoid lag. The power supplies to support portable use tend to top out at around 100-120W, maybe 160W at the high end, so a 125W graphics card doesn't leave much headroom for a processor even in the best case.

Right now I also don't have a workstation that I can develop CUDA on, so that's what it would do in the meantime. Maybe some older games and Steam in-home streaming too. My 2957U-based TV PC is no longer satisfying me there.

Compression tricks don't buy you anything in compute. While ideally you'd apply it to tasks that aren't bandwidth-limited, many tasks do tend to be bandwidth limited when you throw thousands of GFLOPS at them. And, the more memory you can get the better, because scaling up the problem is usually when GPUs do the best.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:33 on May 13, 2015

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