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I'm wondering if part of the reason for Miu's reception is because she's a girl. If she was a guy (ala Yamada/Teruteru) she'd probably have been received much more differently.
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Oct 20, 2017 08:47
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Everyone hated those two as well though, I thought?
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Oct 20, 2017 08:48
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BioEnchanted posted:Everyone hated those two as well though, I thought? "As well"? Isn't the point that people like Miu but dislike those two?
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Oct 20, 2017 08:54
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ApplesandOranges posted:I'm wondering if part of the reason for Miu's reception is because she's a girl. If she was a guy (ala Yamada/Teruteru) she'd probably have been received much more differently. Well, her character as she currently exists only actually works because of common gender norms and stereotypes in place, so yeah. You can't just divorce her gender entirely from the rest of the characterization.
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Oct 20, 2017 09:24
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Excuse me sir there is already a male Miu; Euron in season 7 of Game of Thrones after the show writers stopped even attempting non-comedy scripts.
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Oct 20, 2017 09:36
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The only similarity she has with those other DR characters is that she uses vulgar language, she is very different otherwise.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 10:07
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yeah, a cute girl making dumb sex jokes is always funny.
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Oct 20, 2017 11:42
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I wouldn't really group her in with Yamada. The guy made one or two skeevy comments but hey, his commitment was to 2D and for the most part he was just there to make otaku references. I don't massively like Yamada or anything, but he's a far cry from Teruteru who is just straight up a creep.
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Oct 20, 2017 11:50
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Yamada also straight up murdered Ishimaru because Celes told him Ishimaru tried to sexually assault her. Dude may have been vaguely creepy about his 2D girls but his moral compass was on point. Miu doesn't particularly bother me, probably because I've known one or two girls that act a whole lot like her. It didn't feel like fanservice so much as just "oh yeah I've encountered people like this".
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Oct 20, 2017 11:54
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Miu doesn't particularly bother me, probably because I've known one or two girls that act a whole lot like her. It didn't feel like fanservice so much as just "oh yeah I've encountered people like this". Yeah, I wouldn't call it fan service at all. Kodaka said he tried to write an unpleasant character that would end up at the bottom of character popularity polls, and came up with Miu. He was surprised that players like her and that she ended up placing pretty high.
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Oct 20, 2017 12:18
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It also helps that Miu shows more emotional depth than Teruteru ever did. That guy was just a shallow creep through and through, with few if any redeeming qualities.
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Oct 20, 2017 12:35
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I wish Miu ended up making it to the end. Cause I think her reactions to everything would have been hilarious.
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Oct 20, 2017 12:37
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Miu also was apologetic to Kokichi before her attempted murder. Her stated reason for trying to graduate was that she wanted to get outside and help the presumably apocalyptic world with her inventions. She was a vulgar brat but she really was mostly a good person beneath her complexes. She's also pretty drat insightful in a "right for the wrong reasons" sorta way: She correctly pins the culprit of the first case on Monokuma (the mastermind) and very early on in the second trial she correctly pins the murder on Kirumi. In both cases though she gets completely dismissed because she's just going with her instincts and has zero evidence to actually make a logical case for her accusations. Kiyo may be my favorite but Miu is an incredibly close second for all her depth. YoshiOfYellow fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 12:50
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Miu also was apologetic to Kokichi before her attempted murder. Her stated reason for trying to graduate was that she wanted to get outside and help the presumably apocalyptic world with her inventions. She was a vulgar brat but she really was mostly a good person beneath her complexes. She's also pretty drat insightful in a "right for the wrong reasons" sorta way: She correctly pins the culprit of the first case on Monokuma (the mastermind) and very early on in the second trial she correctly pins the murder on Kirumi. In both cases though she gets completely dismissed because she's just going with her instincts and has zero evidence to actually make a logical case for her accusations. she goes for Korekiyo at the beginning of trial 3 too. The very first non-stop debate is about "was it the transfer student?", and right after that non-stop debate they segue into talking about who the blackened could be since it wasn't the transfer student. The first one to speak up on the topic is Miu. "Step aside, half-pint! I'll handle this! I dunno about Tenko, but I'm pretty fuckin' sure Kiyo murdered Angie!"
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Oct 20, 2017 15:03
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Amppelix posted:But the DRV3 characters aren't fake! Well, they are, but not any more fake than any other fiction characters we enjoy. It makes no difference if they're written by an in-universe writing team or the very real writing team behind the series. Didn't you watch the ending? It doesn't matter what layer of fictional reality we are on or how many lies are piled on top, as long as you can derive some sort of meaning from it it doesn't matter. HellCopter posted:Somebody doesn't believe in the power of fiction to change the real world. Suspicious Dish posted:Ending spoilers: I hate to break it to you, but DR1 and SDR2 are also fictional? They were also stories written by people! Basically, I consider it to be about on the same level as "It's all just a dream!" Which is obviously not a 1:1 comparison, but you can probably see some parallels. orenronen posted:Yeah, I wouldn't call it fan service at all. Kodaka said he tried to write an unpleasant character that would end up at the bottom of character popularity polls, and came up with Miu. He was surprised that players like her and that she ended up placing pretty high. If he really wanted to do that, they probably shouldn't have made her a cute girl, unless the goal was specifically to make a cute girl that nobody liked (which is never going to happen). Meallan posted:I think Cuntellectual does know that DR1 and 2 are fictional, that's not the point. But obviously if you finish a book and it ends with "oh but it was all a dream Oh hey, I completely missed that post. Yeah, exactly. I've zig-zagged between liking and hating how it was handled, but I think the main reason I liked it was because it was kind of absurd and tons of people got REALLY upset about it. When it's just taken on it's own merits... It's not like it was anything super groundbreaking, you know? There's foreshadowing to be sure, but I don't think it's as well done as some of the other things you listed. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 21:07
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" you won't be blown away by the brilliance of the author because "you're right, it was all fictional! Clever!". Smarter people have talked about this better than me but it does look like a undermining of what came before.
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Sakurazuka posted:Yeah it's not like NISA is infamous for shoddy translations Actual question: Are they? MonsterEnvy posted:I wish Miu ended up making it to the end. Cause I think her reactions to everything would have been hilarious. Everything else about the game aside, Miu was one of maybe four characters I was sad to see go. I don't know if I liked it MORE or not, but I can say that I've been more consistently positive about the side content where the cast of the games just do dumb stuff than the main part. 
Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 21:32
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This reminds me. Chapter 3: In the second Debate of the trial, Miu says that Kiyo [broke in] to Angie’s lab, and that weak point is refuted by [Tsumugi’s account], which says that Angie had locked her lab and would only open for the Student Council. This seems like a fuckup, because the ensuing conversation is about how Angie wouldn’t have opened the door for Kiyo, which has nothing to do with “breaking in” but was it NISA or Spunsoft? Also, oh my god, you can replay voice lines from the Transcript screen. How long has this been a feature?
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Oct 20, 2017 21:39
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Cuntellectual posted:Actual question: Are they?
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Oct 20, 2017 22:01
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Haven't read the entire thread, but has there been any consensus on (ending spoilers) the resurrection that is never used? "Monokuma never lies" so if they'd used it it should have worked, but technically in-universe these were still real live people that were killed right? Or are you supposed to roll with the meta-ending "This is fiction too! Anything can happen! They weren't dead at all yet!" explanation? It seems a little logically inconsistent to me when I *think* the game is trying to keep itself straight?
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Oct 20, 2017 22:21
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Poulpe posted:Haven't read the entire thread, but has there been any consensus on (ending spoilers) the resurrection that is never used? It's not stated outright, but i figured Team Danganrompa would have grabbed someone else from the "real world" who looked the part and flashback lighted them until they had the right memories. Any incostincies in their memory would have been have waved by Monokuma as "Dying is traumatic and messes with your memories."
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Oct 20, 2017 23:23
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Poulpe posted:Haven't read the entire thread, but has there been any consensus on (ending spoilers) the resurrection that is never used? This is part of the reason why I think it is a simulation. They can recreate him because they have both him and the fake memories to give him.
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Oct 21, 2017 01:54
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MegaZeroX posted:This is part of the reason why I think it is a simulation. They can recreate him because they have both him and the fake memories to give him. It... seems really clear that it's not a simulation, since they're getting applicants to sign up and get their minds wiped. The people in the game are fictional because they're personalities implanted through the flashback lights just for the game.
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Oct 21, 2017 02:36
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The Casino is suffering
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Oct 21, 2017 03:39
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Capfalcon posted:It... seems really clear that it's not a simulation, since they're getting applicants to sign up and get their minds wiped. The people in the game are fictional because they're personalities implanted through the flashback lights just for the game. I'm not sure how getting mind wiped is mutually exclusive from being in a virtual world.
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Oct 21, 2017 03:46
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MegaZeroX posted:This is part of the reason why I think it is a simulation. They can recreate him because they have both him and the fake memories to give him. The characters are referred to as "flesh-and-blood fictional characters". Their personalities and memories are artificial, but they are real physical living people.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:16
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Cuntellectual posted:Actual question: Are they? Their poor work on Ys 8 was the final straw that broke the camel's back and western fans wrote a letter to Falcom bringing the issue to them. The story was picked up by some Japanese sites and a couple of days later NISA issued a statement saying they would try to have the script and the errors fixed and have the PC port out in November/December (and there is some pretty hefty doubt that they will succeed). The western Falcom fandom is probably one of the most attentive when it comes to localization. XSEED have done a fantastic job with their localization and their ports of Falcom games, so having Ys 8 "stolen" from them got people upset. The voice actor of one of the main characters has said that he will probably not be reprising his role if he is asked to re-dub some of the lines.
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Oct 21, 2017 06:57
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MegaZeroX posted:I'm not sure how getting mind wiped is mutually exclusive from being in a virtual world. (ending spoilers) Wouldn't it be really hecking redundant for the world to be fictional and full of mind wiped people and oh yeah also a simulation? (Inside which is yet another simulation at one point?) There are only so many layers of separations from reality you can stack into the same story before it becomes a farce. Granted, that hinges on the authors having some level of restraint. Perhaps a stronger argument is that there's nothing in the game that indicates that this would be the case. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 07:27
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Ending: If you're prepared to ignore the evidence you could say 'actually it's VR' about any piece of fiction. I really don't see any evidence to support that idea, while there is plenty of stuff that makes more sense in retrospect due to Real Fiction.Capfalcon posted:It's not stated outright, but i figured Team Danganrompa would have grabbed someone else from the "real world" who looked the part and flashback lighted them until they had the right memories. Any incostincies in their memory would have been have waved by Monokuma as "Dying is traumatic and messes with your memories."
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Oct 21, 2017 08:56
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Poulpe posted:Haven't read the entire thread, but has there been any consensus on (ending spoilers) the resurrection that is never used? If that rule could've been taken literally we wouldn't have had that hidden truth behind chapter 1. Voting for Kaede should've gotten everybody killed. The bear lies if they feel they can get away with it.
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Oct 21, 2017 15:55
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I know the series took on a different direction from the first game, but I do miss the relative simplicity of it. The mastermind felt (and was) like a human being, occasionally forgetting to hide secrets or getting distracted by a diversion. SDR2 and DRv3 really feel like you're being strung along until the mastermind shows themselves for no reason, then lets you win.
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Oct 21, 2017 17:07
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fractalairduct posted:8. Miu – Miu is the character I think I did the most complete turnaround on. I thought I’d hate her going in, but her gimmick managed to be consistently funny without getting too fanservicey or too over the top. If you must have a pervert character, she’s far better than someone like Teruteru or Hifumi. Her inventions were super useful, her interactions with Kokichi are hilarious, and she also managed to endear herself to me by being one of the ones who didn’t buy into Angie’s cult. don't you fuckin diss hifumi, he died respecting women
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Oct 21, 2017 17:51
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fractalairduct posted:8. Miu – Miu is the character I think I did the most complete turnaround on. I thought I’d hate her going in, but her gimmick managed to be consistently funny without getting too fanservicey or too over the top. If you must have a pervert character, she’s far better than someone like Teruteru or Hifumi. Her inventions were super useful, her interactions with Kokichi are hilarious, and she also managed to endear herself to me by being one of the ones who didn’t buy into Angie’s cult. spit on my clit posted:don't you fuckin diss hifumi, he died respecting women 
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Oct 21, 2017 18:16
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I've never actually understood why people group Teruteru and Hifumi together, but I see it done all the time so I just assumed that was why. Really, Hifumi has more in common with Tsumugi and Chiaki than he does with Teruteru or Miu.
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Oct 22, 2017 01:22
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Probably because his shtick is 90% 2D girls and 10% his actual talent. Miu's a lot more nuanced at least. And to be fair, Teruteru does show more sides of his personality, especially near the end of chapter 1 and during his FTEs.
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Oct 22, 2017 01:27
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Having just finished the first chapter (going into it knowing full well most spoilers), I'm finding myself picking small things to be annoyed by instead of being sad. 'Cause man, even going in knowing it was still heart breaking. Like, how I can't figure out what reference, if to anything, the notes are on the chalkboard in the research lab. They don't sound like anything I immediately recognize, and it goes from 4 quarter notes in a measure to the one below it with essentially 7 quarter notes, nevermind the measure with just 2 with no rests or anything. Or how Kaede pronounces Debussy: Wrong. I mean, I'll say Liszt's name like "List" even though I know better, but the 'ultimate pianist' should really be able to put the stress on the first syllable like the rest of us lazy english speakers. It'd be like... saying Richard Wagner like... Richard Wagner. At least I know the Japanese voices when I run through with that after first-English go-around will be better on that front. Also, it would be a lot harder to come up with a name for a track as easy as they could with "Moon on the Water", but I'd argue Chopin's Nocturne in E-Flat Major, op. 9, no. 2 is better chillout music than Clair de Lune.  Though I will be willing to admit some slight bias. But hell, Träumerei would've worked, too, if they wanted that nostalgically calming-yet-sad angle. Dreaming, and all that. Easy to make a sad reference to. Or, oh man, maybe something by Satie  it would've been great to have the SHSL pianist execution to involve Vexations. Haha, or maybe one of John Cage's infamously hard to play pieces.Alright, now I feel better. Ready to keep going. 
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Oct 22, 2017 03:14
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E-flat posted:Or, oh man, maybe something by Satie I don't really know pianos but I saw a post going around that the music she plays during her execution is supposed to be really easy to play (black keys only) as a final humiliation.
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Oct 22, 2017 03:27
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E-flat posted:
kaede's already playing 4'33" now
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Oct 22, 2017 04:42
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Does anyone agree with me on chapter 2 being the worst one in the game by far? Nothing interesting really happens in the entire thing. Shuichi spends time being the worst he ever is in the game, moping around, which doesn't help endear him to you coming off the chapter 1 twist. The whole motive videos business only amounts to the bug meet-n-greet with Gonta and Kokichi (which is great). The trial is also the worst one in the game, with painfully slow meandering towards the murder method, which you probably figured out mostly during the investigation, and no interesting twists to save it. In short, there's not much of interest in the character writing portion and the mystery portion is pretty rote too.
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Oct 22, 2017 10:57
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Amppelix posted:Does anyone agree with me on chapter 2 being the worst one in the game by far? Nothing interesting really happens in the entire thing. Shuichi spends time being the worst he ever is in the game, moping around, which doesn't help endear him to you coming off the chapter 1 twist. The whole motive videos business only amounts to the bug meet-n-greet with Gonta and Kokichi (which is great). The trial is also the worst one in the game, with painfully slow meandering towards the murder method, which you probably figured out mostly during the investigation, and no interesting twists to save it. I found the Chapter 2 trial fantastic; Kirumi is a phenomenal culprit in that she's great at keeping her cool, misdirecting the trial, and going along with discussion to make herself seem like she's joined with everyone. Keep in mind that without you knowing that Kirumi went to the gym just before nighttime, there's very little actually tying her to the crime - the game even pulls the switcheroo by placing suspicion on her early on and then writing that suspicion off. And she actually fights to the very end - even voting for Shuichi out of spite, lying to everyone to try to get them to take the heat off her, and then blatantly running away from her punishment. Her execution is also really great. Also Ryoma is a cool dude who subverts all the opinions of the weird looking character. Taken away way too soon. It's not a very difficult case for the player, but in the context of the game itself, it's a really tough, smart crime.
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Oct 22, 2017 12:30
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Honestly I found Trial 3 more annoying the second I saw the scythe under the floorboards, I knew who the killer was and how he did it, but I still had to spend the next hour or two walking Shuichi through it.  Ultimate Detective my rear end.As for Trial 2, I legitimately had a good case against Kokichi, but all the same evidence I was using to point to him also pointed to 2B (most notably their alibi being them playing 'tag'). I'm hoping it's on purpose since there's unique dialogue for Kokichi alone if you accuse him there.
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Oct 22, 2017 15:28
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