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No Wave posted:Some quality content: Jesus loving christ. I love it.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:59
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They needed to be lie bullets, but otherwise it's a good edit.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:38
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No Wave posted:Some quality content: I enjoyed this more than all of DR3 put together. I'd probably be less poorly disposed to v3 if the first series had a satisfactory conclusion. fractalairduct posted:(spoilers through ch1 still) I like Shuichi, and I really like his development through the course of the game - he's probably the best written of the protagonists. But it does feel pretty disingenuous that they centred so much of the advertising around Kaede and having a female protagonist for the first time and then immediately killed her off, especially since the games have a history of killing female characters to further the development of their male leads. Given how few people survive this game I'm not too upset about it in retrospect, but it's still a writing decision that they made. I think part of why I'm poorly disposed is that I really didn't like either of the other survivors. They were up there for most forgettable characters in any of the games, and I genuinely cannot remember either of their names. The whole "shoved into a fridge" thing was definitely off putting, too. It's more the general trend than the specific incident that bothered me. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 05:13
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No Wave posted:Some quality content:  Now I want a simpsons debate scrum.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:20
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No Wave posted:On DR3 case 3, it seemed like Korekiyo was going to claim that Tenko was possessed by Angie and then killed herself. I thought that's where his constant talk about the seance failing was going but he never really tried that out. Was that just me who thought he would try to make it go that way? I had exactly the same train of thought during case 3 I did like him suddenly having split personality during the trial though that was pretty freaky
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Jan 12, 2018 07:33
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NOTE: Discord-hosted image links (like this one) expire approximately 24hrs after they were copied from Discord.
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Jan 14, 2018 04:16
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No Wave posted:Some quality content: 
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Jan 14, 2018 04:37
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Danaru posted:Nagito loving sucks, also Kokichi is above and beyond the worst character in V3, also Mondo Oowada is literally the worst character in fiction and I think less of anyone who likes him 
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Jan 14, 2018 05:04
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It's Hot Take hour on Jabberwock Island and I'm serving them up fresh
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Danaru posted:Nagito loving sucks, also Kokichi is above and beyond the worst character in V3, also Mondo Oowada is literally the worst character in fiction and I think less of anyone who likes him
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Jan 14, 2018 05:09
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(v3 ch6 spoilers)  
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Jan 14, 2018 11:27
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I thought that guy was just a fan of Twogamii, Gonta, and Chihiro.
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Jan 14, 2018 13:59
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No Wave posted:I thought that guy was just a fan of Twogamii, Gonta, and Chihiro. Nagito also indirectly killed Chiaki with his dumb bullshit, and Kokichi's dumbass plan got Kaito killed too. At least I'll give Kokichi credit that his whole "reveal the game's a wash" plan could have worked before chapter 6 revealed the mastermind already cheated. Also I'll give him credit because the whole Exisal gimmick of that trial was hilarious. I don't even remember making that post so I was probably drunk and angry about anime games at the time but I stand by the message, though not so much the tone  also yeah Chihiro's my favourite danganronpa 
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Jan 14, 2018 16:15
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Danaru posted:Nagito also indirectly killed Chiaki with his dumb bullshit, and Kokichi's dumbass plan got Kaito killed too. At least I'll give Kokichi credit that his whole "reveal the game's a wash" plan could have worked before chapter 6 revealed the mastermind already cheated. Also I'll give him credit because the whole Exisal gimmick of that trial was hilarious. Well to be fair to Nagito, he kinda had the right idea. Everyone other than Chiaki, himself included, had a hand in why everything is so terrible. It's probably the most logically sound thing he does in the entire game. PS, Chiaki is the best Danganronpa and having her killed off a second time in DR3 is just another reason that show sucked.
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Jan 15, 2018 00:29
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Danaru posted:Nagito also indirectly killed Chiaki with his dumb bullshit, and Kokichi's dumbass plan got Kaito killed too. At least I'll give Kokichi credit that his whole "reveal the game's a wash" plan could have worked before chapter 6 revealed the mastermind already cheated. Also I'll give him credit because the whole Exisal gimmick of that trial was hilarious. doesnt matter because chiaki was dead since before DR2
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Jan 15, 2018 00:33
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spit on my clit posted:doesnt matter because chiaki was dead since before DR2 Jokes aside, that was one of the dumbest plot twists ever.
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Jan 15, 2018 02:05
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Cuntellectual posted:Jokes aside, that was one of the dumbest plot twists ever. Well, the plot twist is more that she actually existed at all.
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Jan 15, 2018 02:37
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Okay so I beat this game like a week after it came out. Thinking about coming back and platinuming the game. How hard is it? I see we have to do the mini games on an insane difficulty?
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Jan 15, 2018 02:48
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orenronen posted:Well, the plot twist is more that she actually existed at all. Do we need to spoiler DR3 stuff at this point? Yeah, I get that. I just found it jarring how a bunch of characters got ret-conned into existence and having been really important. Edit: I was going to write an explanation about why I didn't like Chiaki's inclusion in Danganronpa 3, but then it basically turned into complaining about DESPAIR ANIME, and by gosh I am not going to be the only person who's time was wasted by this post. So uh, don't take it as a response to what you were saying, it's barely related at this point.  While I found the the inclusion of boxer guy, maid teacher and Yu Narukami to be kind of weird, the two characters I think really made the story worse were Human!Chiaki and the anime guy who spent 90% of the show's locked up in Junko's rape dungeon. Human!Chiaki basically existed to give Hinata something to get angsty about so he'd accept the offer to turn into Izuru, and to make everyone else properly despairing to get mind controlled. The problem with the first reason is that it's completely frivolous. Hinata in DR2 was obsessed with becoming one of the super-talents, and joined the reserve course so he could pretend he was one. His angst basically stemmed from the fact he was convinced he was worthless because he lacked a talent. DR3 downplayed that in favor of playing up that he was insecure over not feeling adequate compared to Chiaki (and to be fair, getting beat up by the big dude who's name I forget when he tried to investigate the deaths). So that brings us to the other plot point she's tied with, and that is the brainwashing thing. Conveniently enough, this is also a plot point that anime guy was involved with. I know it didn't come COMPLETELY out of the blue, but I believe that is what is referred to as "damning with faint praise." There's basically two big problems I have with that plot point. The first is that it kind of makes DR2's character development pointless. It's.. Not really much of a redemption arc if the characters had no responsibility for their actions. The fact that they decided that they would redeem themselves by peacing out and living on an island or whatever, apparently unbothered by any crimes they may have committed or what other people might think (or the fact that apparently the world is still a mess) left a bad taste in my mouth. The other problem I have is that it was completely pointless! I don't remember the exact wording, but I believe DR2 left the "how" of the cast joining Junko ambiguous so you would have to decide on your own how it would have happened. Everyone's free time events certainly revealed that everyone in the cast had their fair share of problems. Insecurities, a need to belong, that sort of thing. The perfect opening for a manipulative, charismatic cult leader to exploit, particularly since they weren't just random high schoolers, they had abilities that could potentially be useful to some kind of major plot. Instead, everyone just got brainwashed. Memory serving, the reception to the Togami book's brainwashing plot device was very negative, because it was completely retarded then, too. It makes everything worse. It changes Junko from being a manipulative monster who hit vulnerable children where they were weakest in service to her own twisted goals to being a complete idiot who through sheer dumb luck managed to have the exact sequence of circumstances play out so events could play out in the way they were preordained to. One could argue that that was the point, to make Junko look less competent, but... Why? It's not really in line with any of her other appearances. It doesn't make for a better story to strain the established suspension of disbelief by changing the rules all of a sudden. So why did they decide to include it? I don't know. Maybe it's because they realized too late that 11 20 minute episodes was nowhere near enough to write a character study for 10+ characters. Or maybe the writers are just hacks. What I do know is that while it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, and it's far from the worst, most horrible or despair inducing thing to happen, it is, at the very least, a complete waste. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 02:53
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Yeah, pretty much everyone had expected the DR2 brainwashing to be like (mild V3 spoiler, I guess) Angie's cult, and if that could be built up over two chapters I don't see how they couldn't have fit one into thirteen episodes. 
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Jan 15, 2018 04:45
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I don't like her inclusion in DR3 because (DR2 spoilers) I liked idea of the hot genius chill slacker gamer girl who can't find a swimsuit top big enough for her bobs not actually being a real person. She's a nice character in general though, I really liked the scene where she had to take Hajime away from the Final Dead Room in hungry tower.
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Jan 15, 2018 18:02
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http://kaibutsushidousha.tumblr.com/post/169633676249/kodakas-anniv3rsary-tweets
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Jan 15, 2018 23:42
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Warning: the translations provided are sometimes not completely accurate. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things as the general point is still conveyed, but some of Kodaka's statements' nuances are lost, I think.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:55
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How could somebody possibly hate the third game's ending still after reading that?
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Jan 16, 2018 00:53
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I just finished the game, and I loved the whole game, including the ending. Everything was presentable, believable, and yet left a huge emotion when I finished the game, that I still feel empty 2 days after finishing it. Best parts of the game: 1. The ending. This was a perfect moment. 2. Case 5/6. Both of these cases were really good, and I entered Case 5 not knowing anything at all. 3. The cast was really good. Himiko, Kaito, Koikichi, Gonta and Miu were all up there as some of the best characters. Worse parts of the game: 1. Tsumugi. What a boring villain. 2. I felt that Case 3 was wasted. It would have been a new direction for Kiyo to kill Tenko, then point out "I thought that I could just kill her in the confusion and graduate, and the new rule was a bummer". Having him kill both Angie/Tenko felt a waste of a Character and a case. 3. SS rank on mean difficulty in the casinos. Not even going to try getting Platinum on the game when I realised how hard it was going to be. Overall, a drat good game.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:44
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It's great how the "everything is fictional" premise let them write all kinds of ridiculous nonsense backstories, from "raised by
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Jan 16, 2018 20:42
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About DR3's ending: I liked Tsumugi as a villain, but I have a lot of fun thinking she sucks too. Part of her character. I think she was a way better final boss than the other two games (not a high bar) - the Junko personality shifting thing always left me really cold and cycling through every character in DR1 and DR2 was very entertaining. And funny. And having all the costumes float around her in a hazy circle was really cool. The ending was a lot better because Shuichi and Himiko especially (who were offered to go free) actually had to make a very difficult decision. In DR1 it was easy. DR2 was a joke and didn't even work with Hajime's character (Hajime's big thing was his obsession with wanting to be an ultimate - and the "hard" thing for him to do is to leave and become the most ultimate ultimate ever? Why would he ever turn this down?) The DR3 decision required Shuichi to be smart and required everyone to be really brave. Honestly I think the only really offputting thing about the ending were the real faces that showed up in the background on the TVs. No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 02:55
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Bloody Emissary posted:It's great how the "everything is fictional" premise let them write all kinds of ridiculous nonsense backstories, from "raised by All accounts about the development of V3 say that the first thing Kodaka came up with was the ending, and everything else came later.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:02
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orenronen posted:All accounts about the development of V3 say that the first thing Kodaka came up with was the ending, and everything else came later. It was a fun fantasy while it lasted.  While you're here: a piece somebody wrote about a handful of Kokichi's lines was linked earlier in the thread, and I recall you saying that only a couple of them had actually been wrong. Which lines were those, out of curiosity?
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Jan 17, 2018 03:30
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Bloody Emissary posted:It was a fun fantasy while it lasted. Some of their points are valid, but they spend several paragraphs complaining about the line originally containing やらされる, though the line is at best ambiguous and could mean (a version of) what they claim it does (if that やらされる really was meant to be 殺らされる instead of the plainer meaning of やる it would mean "a game where you're made to kill" and not "a game that kills"), but most likely was written meaning exactly what it was translated to officially. Some of the other criticism, especially about the translation omitting stuff, is valid.
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Jan 17, 2018 04:30
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No Wave posted:The ending was a lot better because Shuichi and Himiko especially (who were offered to go free) actually had to make a very difficult decision. In DR1 it was easy. DR2 was a joke and didn't even work with Hajime's character (Hajime's big thing was his obsession with wanting to be an ultimate - and the "hard" thing for him to do is to leave and become the most ultimate ultimate ever? Why would he ever turn this down?) The DR3 decision required Shuichi to be smart and required everyone to be really brave.[/spoiler] Because the person that was the Ultimate Ultimate was almost a completely different person than he was and fundamentally it meant the death of his consciousness. As far as they knew, and this was only prevented by a miracle, choosing that was the same as killing himself.
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Jan 17, 2018 05:03
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TheKingofSprings posted:Because the person that was the Ultimate Ultimate was almost a completely different person than he was and fundamentally it meant the death of his consciousness. As far as they knew, and this was only prevented by a miracle, choosing that was the same as killing himself.
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Jan 17, 2018 05:45
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orenronen posted:Some of their points are valid, but they spend several paragraphs complaining about the line originally containing やらされる, though the line is at best ambiguous and could mean (a version of) what they claim it does (if that やらされる really was meant to be 殺らされる instead of the plainer meaning of やる it would mean "a game where you're made to kill" and not "a game that kills"), but most likely was written meaning exactly what it was translated to officially. Out of curiosity, would there be a better way to phrase that sentence so that it means both 'a game you have to play' and 'a game that kills people'? If there was a more obvious way to do that, that they just didn't use, I'd be more inclined to see it as that person reading into it too far and misinterpreting it. But it seems like the ambiguity and double-meaning of it is the point, considering it comes up at a time when you still haven't been given the motive video as the theoretical 'key' to working out Kokichi's character. You can read it one way and assume he's just being a petulant poor loser (I didn't even want to play this game anyway), and then with the clarity that the motive video gives you (that his group had a specific moral opposition to murder) come back and see it a different way (I hated what this game made people do). When Shuichi reflects on him post-ch5 trial, it seems like he's emphasising that different things can be true or not depending on the angle you look at them from, so I feel like the subjectivity of the line is very purposeful.
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Jan 17, 2018 06:07
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No Wave posted:That seems like a really dramatic way of looking at waking up from a dream. We'll probably agree to disagree on this though. Hajime's horror at the end of DR2 made sense to me. If you told me, 'Hey, this situation you're in right now - this thing that you think is your real life - is a dream, and when you wake up you'll have a different set of memories and a different personality and none of your emotional attachments, and in fact you'll be the person responsible for forcing your friends to kill each other, but at least you'll be really good at golf,' I'd definitely be tempted to keep sleeping.
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Jan 17, 2018 09:49
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V3 ending: I liked villain Tsumugi in chapter 6 well enough but I don't think that justifies her being so boring for the entire rest of the game. I basically worked out it was her just because of how conspicuously she never does anything through 5 whole chapters.
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Jan 17, 2018 11:51
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Rith posted:Hajime's horror at the end of DR2 made sense to me. If you told me, 'Hey, this situation you're in right now - this thing that you think is your real life - is a dream, and when you wake up you'll have a different set of memories and a different personality and none of your emotional attachments, and in fact you'll be the person responsible for forcing your friends to kill each other, but at least you'll be really good at golf,' I'd definitely be tempted to keep sleeping. If the choice was eject Makoto/Kyoko/Byakuya without consequence and live in the neo world forever because the world's better off with you dead vs leave, that would have made the decision more in line given that the DR endings often come down to doing what's rational and practical vs taking a risk to change the real world. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 12:51
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No Wave posted:About DR3's ending: I liked Tsumugi as a villain, but I have a lot of fun thinking she sucks too. Part of her character. I think she was a way better final boss than the other two games (not a high bar) - the Junko personality shifting thing always left me really cold and cycling through every character in DR1 and DR2 was very entertaining. And funny. And having all the costumes float around her in a hazy circle was really cool. His entire character development over the game was to get past the whole "so utterly deluded and obsessed he was willing to effectively kill himself to be special", though.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:25
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But then he does. For a better reason this time, at least.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 16:31
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Hi I also just beat V3 and the only thing I want to say is that Scrum Debates are the best minigame in the series by a wide margin and are really cool and I wish there were more.
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Jan 20, 2018 02:38
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Glad it isn't just me who struggled with DR2's cases. I'm running my fiance through the games now I've beaten them. Having beaten DR1 we're now on 2 and I'm trying to keep my help to a minimum because she loves murder mysteries and is really good at solving them for herself, but I mentioned to her that I only got an A on one case in the entire game so if she could beat that, she'd be better than me. First case netted her a B and I had to really help with some of the questions. What I took away from my initial playthrough and seem to be vindicated by from watching a second one is that DR2 requires you to remember tiny details, incidental lines of dialouge and extrapolating things that aren't demonstrated way more than the other two games. DR2 case 1 discussion: The major hangups for case 1 came from the portable stove, the fire doors and the sheer amount of accounts to remember when you're unfamiliar with the characters. The portable stove and fire doors make sense when the explanation hits, but they're never outright demonstrated in the game - only mentioned in passing. I think if it was DR1 or V3, there'd be a moment where someone dicked around with the fire doors and got them temporarily closed to really hammer home how they'd obstruct a view to the hall. The main problem I had with the fire doors was actually born out of niavete: When they said fire doors I assumed it meant fire exits . I did think the placement was strange but I just rolled with it. In my missus' case it's because they're not really focused on much at all, and with how relatively long the cases are it's easy to miss finer details. Ditto the portable stove, which is only really mentioned in the inventory list from what I've seen. I really love DR2 for its story and think it has the strongest character development out of all the games, but while I'm watching her play I'm amazed at the amount of times I keep telling her how V3 absolutely nails the cases in comparison to the other games. For every time DR2 demands a leap of logic or causes you to think of something in an overly complex way, there's a moment in V3 where it takes a similar concept and presents it in such a memorable, legible manner that you feel smart for being right rather than frustrated at warping your thinking. DR1's cases are readable for the sheer fact they're relatively mundane compared to its sequels - you never have to think too far outside the realms of reality. Songbearer fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 04:14
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DR2 cases are legit awful.
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Jan 20, 2018 04:46
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