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Ouff that’s rough ):
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Jun 12, 2024 13:31
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| # ? Jan 20, 2026 16:01 |
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My son is about to turn 4 and I'm using that milestone as a "big boy" to try and get him to go to sleep by himself. Right now we gotta lay with him until he falls asleep then sneak out. We start reading books at 7 then he's usually asleep by 800 or 830 so it's not too bad but still a habit I want to break. I've got a buddy who had his son sleeping in the parents bed until 6 and only stopped because they have a daughter (4) now who does the cosleeping with them. Sounds like hell. They also let the kids go to sleep whenever they want so they are regularly up until 11. Their life is so fascinating
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Jun 12, 2024 13:55
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Maybe these can help convince your partners: (source: Marc Weissbluth, but you can often get the actual articles via google) Journal of Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics (1991): “Extinction is an effective, reasonably rapid, and durable treatment for infant sleep disturbance…mothers became less anxious as the study proceeded…. A measure of infant security was explicitly included in this study to test this hypothesis, and again, the results are clear. Infant security improved significantly over the course of the study…we can reject the hypothesis that exposure to extinction…will impair security.” Journal of Pediatric Psychology (1992): “Measured and compared the behavior characteristics and security scores of infants (6–24 months) treated with extinction for sleep disturbances…There was no evidence of detrimental effects on the treated infants whose security, emotionality/tension, and likeability scores improved.” Attachment & Human Development (2000): “Fifty families were observed at home during more than 20 hours, and infant crying behavior as well as maternal responses were recorded…the more frequently mothers ignored their infants crying bouts in the first nine-week period, the less frequently their infants cried in the following nine-week period.” At fifteen months of age, there was no relation between crying at home and secure and insecure attachment classifications. Sleep (2006): “A total of 13 studies [of behavioral management of sleep problems] have assessed a number of secondary treatment outcomes related to daytime functioning in the child (including behavior, mood, self-esteem, parent–child interactions). [I]nfants who participated in sleep interventions were found to be more secure, predictable, less irritable, and to cry and fuss less following treatment…. The results were remarkably consistent across studies. Following intervention for their child’s sleep disturbance, parents exhibited rapid and dramatic improvements in their overall mental health status, reporting fewer symptoms of depression…an increased sense of parenting efficiency, enhanced marital satisfaction, and reduced parenting stress. The majority of these studies reported positive effects on daytime functioning; no adverse secondary effects were identified in any of these studies. Early Child Development (2012): Cortisol levels after three days of “crying it out” on average showed no increase compared with before the sleep-training program began. Further, the cortisol level on the fourth day was less than the third day (personal communication). By the third day of the program, all infants settled to sleep independently without a bout of distress. Additionally, by the third day, the mothers’ cortisol levels were significantly lower. Pediatrics (2012): Behavioral sleep techniques have no harmful effect on measures of children’s emotions, behaviors, psychosocial functioning, child–parent closeness, or attachment five years later. Pediatrics (2016): “Both graduated extinction and bedtime fading provide significant sleep benefits above control, yet convey no adverse stress responses or long-term effects on parent–child attachment or child emotions and behavior. Our diurnal cortisol data indicate the active treatments did not result in chronically elevated levels over time. No significant differences in children’s emotions and behaviors could be found between groups 12 months after intervention, with internalizing or externalizing behaviors comparable across groups. No significant differences were found in attachment styles between groups. For parental stress, mothers in both intervention groups reported less stress than mothers in the control group.” Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2020): No adverse impacts on leaving infants to cry it out in the first 6 months on infant–mother attachment and behavioural development at 18 months were found. Journal of Developmental & Behavioral Pediatrics (2020): At 12 months of age, children whose mothers delayed their response to infant crying at 3-6 months, had an easier temperament, had fewer crying episodes, were less likely to cry at bedtime, had fewer night wakings, and had longer durations of sleep. “Cry out was not associated with observational measures of maternal sensitivity or infant–maternal attachment.” Dr. Johanna Petzoldt, a sleep researcher, psychologist, and mother, wrote that “attachment parenting” is very popular in Germany and “to my disappointment, it was often and fiercely misinterpreted as the one true parenting strategy…I fear that these opinions might put parents at risk for self-sacrifice and resulting mental problems…I would prefer parenting advice that is evidence-based, flexible, and balanced, so that every parent could choose their own path, without feeling guilty or intimidated.”
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Jun 12, 2024 14:13
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Thank you, thread, for making me feel even better about the decision to sleep train and enforce strict boundaries for wake up time.
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Jun 12, 2024 14:18
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chadbear posted:My partner refuses to do sleep training, so here we are carrying the 13mo to sleep every night, during the night at least once, in the morning after he wakes up at 4am, to his first half of the midday nap and to his second half of the midday nap I'm dying We thankfully have an amazing sleeper of a baby (I'm legit jealous of his ability to seemingly go "Im fuckin bored, I'm OUT zzzzzzz") but my wife is resisting the idea of getting him off the 4am feed. We both suspect she has postpartum OCD which we're trying to work around but she absolutely cannot deal with any deviation from our schedule now that it's established. I don't wanna push it too hard yet, seeing as he's only just about 4 months and luckily I have the luxury of a sleepy baby who will zonk out after the 4am feed but I wouldn't mind sleeping midnight to 7am again. His gums calmed down again btw, he's been in great form all week. We discovered he really loves it when you tell him he's in trouble? So now I do a whole bad cop interrogation routine with him while he loses his poo poo. So far he hasn't cracked but I'll get that baby bastard to confess
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Jun 12, 2024 14:23
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Thanks for the effort. I have even printed out some of those papers to no avail. Letting children cry is just super taboo here in Germany. I guess it’s the late reaction to the Nazi book the German mother and her first child, which told parents to care for a kid physically but not to give it too much affection so the kid would not grow weak. If the kid cries, let it, it’s healthy for the lungs, but do not console it. This insane book got reprinted well into the 80s (sans the swastikas and Hitler references).
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Jun 12, 2024 14:29
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Shoehead posted:We thankfully have an amazing sleeper of a baby (I'm legit jealous of his ability to seemingly go "Im fuckin bored, I'm OUT zzzzzzz") but my wife is resisting the idea of getting him off the 4am feed. We both suspect she has postpartum OCD which we're trying to work around but she absolutely cannot deal with any deviation from our schedule now that it's established. I don't wanna push it too hard yet, seeing as he's only just about 4 months and luckily I have the luxury of a sleepy baby who will zonk out after the 4am feed but I wouldn't mind sleeping midnight to 7am again. We were worried about getting off the overnight feed because KG3 (5 mos) is a lean rear end baby and he needs all the calories he can get, but it went fine. First day off it he woke up at the usual time and fussed a bit off and on for ~20 mins, and then just went back to sleep. If the kid weighs more than 12 or 13 lbs they can make it through the night. If you can, try to nip the schedule OCD thing in the bud because the baby's schedule is gonna change a lot over the next few months.
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Jun 12, 2024 14:33
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chadbear posted:Thanks for the effort. I have even printed out some of those papers to no avail. Letting children cry is just super taboo here in Germany. I guess it’s the late reaction to the Nazi book the German mother and her first child, which told parents to care for a kid physically but not to give it too much affection so the kid would not grow weak. If the kid cries, let it, it’s healthy for the lungs, but do not console it. This insane book got reprinted well into the 80s (sans the swastikas and Hitler references). Yeah I also had a very hard time convincing my partner because of the culture about it here in Belgium. In fact we still do very regular checks whenever the baby cries. Nobody dares to admit that they let their child cry for more than 5 minutes. What worked for us: first I focused on getting him to fall asleep in bed (instead of in our arms) by putting him down just before he'd otherwise fall asleep. This actually does not involve any crying, if it didn't work I simply soothed him before trying again. Only after this worked a little bit for me did I ask my partner to do this as well. It's not easy and it takes time but it's worth it. At 4 months it was easiest to first learn this in the morning nap. Afterwards we tried a no-cry sleep solution for some time with a very big focus on "he has to learn to self soothe" so we need to try to minimise how much we pick him up, and then minimise how much we touch him. The big benefit here is that such a solution, while more difficult then (partial) extinction, still focuses on them falling asleep in their own bed. Only after we tried that for a month did we start introducing some time between him starting crying and us going in (I always let my partner decide how long this time period is, so at the start this was just 1-2 minutes) and now it's pretty good. It's not necessary to go full extinction.
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Jun 12, 2024 15:10
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:We were worried about getting off the overnight feed because KG3 (5 mos) is a lean rear end baby and he needs all the calories he can get, but it went fine. First day off it he woke up at the usual time and fussed a bit off and on for ~20 mins, and then just went back to sleep. If the kid weighs more than 12 or 13 lbs they can make it through the night. Oh yeah he's that weight all right. My sister hates me because the two things she couldn't get my niece to do was sleep and eat and this fucker is filling up and passing out like a slug. We've a few opportunities to maybe dry run a whole nighter coming up, I should hop on them. Her identifying that something is up has been helpful because we've been able to talk a few things over and thankfully as well she trusts me as a dad to be flexible when she can't. I know at least when his schedule changes she'll go with it but getting her to make the first move is gonna take some talking over.
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Jun 12, 2024 15:25
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Walh Hara posted:Yeah I also had a very hard time convincing my partner because of the culture about it here in Belgium. In fact we still do very regular checks whenever the baby cries. Nobody dares to admit that they let their child cry for more than 5 minutes. That’s very helpful, thanks. I tried the put-down-just-before-falling-asleep method some months ago but he would always wake up and cry. I’ll give it another go.
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Jun 12, 2024 15:32
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chadbear posted:That’s very helpful, thanks. I tried the put-down-just-before-falling-asleep method some months ago but he would always wake up and cry. I’ll give it another go. It helps to have some kind of trigger phrase or something just as you are putting them down. It will help them stay calm and soothed. Something simple and sort of repetitive, I usually say "good night baby KG3, it's time to go to sleep, good night, mommy and daddy love you, good night!" Shoehead posted:My sister hates me because the two things she couldn't get my niece to do was sleep and eat drat what else is left, I thought you at least got one of either eating or sleeping
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Jun 12, 2024 15:36
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chadbear posted:Around here in Germany sleep training is absolutely taboo. Non-German friends encourage us to try it but no dice. That just sounds pants on head crazy to me as a blue state American Like, in our case, the first week it was two nights where the baby cried for 15-20 min and then fell asleep, and then maybe once a week for a month after that. I don't think we've ever left the kid to cry for more than 30 min, generally that means they're not tired and/or hungry At 12 months the baby has been trained to be held to go to sleep and you're mostly hosed. I'm pretty sure my wife and I would have gotten a divorce by now if we didn't do some kind of sleep training. As soon as the baby was on a regular sleep schedule and we got our evenings back it... Wasn't business as usual, but certainly felt like things were under control and on a stable upwards glide path Feeding formula probably helps too, there's not really a concept of "nursing the baby to sleep" in your lap. Ours has always been a formula baby, minus about 6 hours there at the very beginning.
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Jun 12, 2024 16:07
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It helps to have some kind of trigger phrase or something just as you are putting them down. It will help them stay calm and soothed. Something simple and sort of repetitive, I usually say "good night baby KG3, it's time to go to sleep, good night, mommy and daddy love you, good night!" She would regularly fail to finish a bottle of formula before it went bad, it was rough. She was much happier off the bottle and with solids and made up for it but the nurses were furious with them for a while
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Jun 12, 2024 16:45
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I can’t remember how old exactly but sometime around 6 months we switched to doing check ins after 5,10, and then every 15 minutes. Just a soothing pat on the back and quick reassurance that we’re there but after the first couple of nights we weren’t having to do the 15 minute check ins. We’re really lucky now and pretty much know that if he isn’t getting to sleep on his own he’s either teething or sick which we already know based on how his day has gone. It helped us to just set a timer and make a checklist to feel like we were doing something and not just watching the monitor those first few nights.
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Jun 12, 2024 16:50
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Yeah I think cry it out types of sleep training are pretty frowned on here in Finland as well. But we do have some 13 months of parental leave combined so the stress of night time wake-ups with full-time work are much lesser.
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Jun 12, 2024 20:10
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We lucked out trying sleeping training at like 8 or 9 months. Only took one or two nights for her to get the idea. Definitely worth a shot to let em cry for like 30 min and see what happens. It seemed like she never really ‘got’ the concept that she could…just lay down herself and go to sleep until we gave her the chance to do it.
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Jun 13, 2024 03:22
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Doll House Ghost posted:Yeah I think cry it out types of sleep training are pretty frowned on here in Finland as well. But we do have some 13 months of parental leave combined so the stress of night time wake-ups with full-time work are much lesser. Oh... i was looking a little bit side eyed at the thread, but that makes perfect sense. If i barely had any vacation or parental leave the necessity of sleep training would be like x100 times higher.
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Jun 13, 2024 04:54
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Whereas my wife and I are counting down the days until it's ok to have the baby sleep separately/start sleep training. Our quality of life went way up when we did that with our first. Speaking of our first who is now 3, almost 4, I really wish he could show frustration in any way besides, biting, hitting or kicking myself and mom.
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Jun 13, 2024 05:00
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Walh Hara posted:Yeah I also had a very hard time convincing my partner because of the culture about it here in Belgium. In fact we still do very regular checks whenever the baby cries. Nobody dares to admit that they let their child cry for more than 5 minutes. I had some (Euro) colleagues go wide-eyed when I mentioned the biggest stress-reliever we have is a set of fancy earplugs and noise-cancelling headphones. If the baby's warm, clean, fed, not in pain, had human contact, and still crying out, then it's out of our hands. Other question: what's the current best practice on multilingual education? My wife and I use English as a common language. I'm a native Dutch speaker; she took Dutch courses and speaks it quite well, but it requires a lot of effort. She speaks Hindi, which I can only do rather rudimentary. We live in a Dutch language environment (daycare - school - outside). We'd like to raise the minihuman with three languages - Dutch, English and Hindi. Currently, I speak Dutch to the kid when alone, she speaks Hindi in the same situation, and English if we're all together. The kid's barely six week, so at this point I'm happy if she hears everything from a soft g over different rs to aspirated occlusives. I don't know the common pitfalls (and the amount of different information is overwhelming and contradictory).
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Jun 13, 2024 07:22
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Agricola Frigidus posted:I had some (Euro) colleagues go wide-eyed when I mentioned the biggest stress-reliever we have is a set of fancy earplugs and noise-cancelling headphones. If the baby's warm, clean, fed, not in pain, had human contact, and still crying out, then it's out of our hands. One of the main things I've heard is to not be worried if their first words are delayed. My understanding is that multilingual upbringing usually has a delayed start to speech and then a rapid expansion of vocabulary once they get going.
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Jun 13, 2024 12:38
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Agricola Frigidus posted:I had some (Euro) colleagues go wide-eyed when I mentioned the biggest stress-reliever we have is a set of fancy earplugs and noise-cancelling headphones. If the baby's warm, clean, fed, not in pain, had human contact, and still crying out, then it's out of our hands. From what I've read, it's important to separate the languages into different contexts, so no constant switching between languages. But you have that covered already.
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Jun 13, 2024 12:45
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As much as I adore nap traps, I finally took the plunge and started to sleep/nap train our eldest (inspired by folks in this thread!). Holy Moses, it's heart-wrenching to see her shudder and sob herself to sleep, but she's taken to it surprisingly quickly. Right now she's snoozing in the playyard with a small fan and white noise. So proud of our girl 
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Jun 13, 2024 13:59
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Our neighbor’s kids are trilingual and were raised how you described. One parent only spoke French to them, one Mandarin, and they got English out in public. The kids’ English lagged behind until they were like 5-6 and then it shot ahead because that was the language their friends used and the one that dominates where they live. They still primarily speak French at home.
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Jun 13, 2024 14:55
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Same with friends using native Dutch and Croatian with the kid individually and English together/in public. The kid would occasionally have stutters (that parents worried required speech therapy) followed by huge linguistic breakthroughs, and was speaking fluently all three languages at age 5.
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Jun 13, 2024 15:27
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I really thought my son and I would be splashing around in the kiddie pool on this hot afternoon. Instead he fell asleep on the couch watching farm equipment videos. Meh, works for me. Maybe I'll take a nap too.
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Jun 13, 2024 16:46
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Brawnfire posted:Instead he fell asleep on the couch watching farm equipment videos. Mike Armstrong YouTube videos for us. It’s just videos of trains. Not, like, interesting trains. Just any old trains.
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Jun 13, 2024 16:48
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Brawnfire posted:I really thought my son and I would be splashing around in the kiddie pool on this hot afternoon. Tractor Ted?
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Jun 13, 2024 18:31
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Czech tractor racing competition videos used to be a regular in our house.
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Jun 13, 2024 20:02
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Upgraded my newly 3yo’s crib to a toddler bed on his birthday, thinking he might be able to walk into my room if he needs me instead of screaming for me in the middle of the night. Nope, he still screams, and when I try to guide him to walk, he screams some more, even louder. Somehow my daughter, whose bed is like three feet away, sleeps through it. About a year ago he slept through the night for almost a month straight, and I don’t know what happened but that stopped. He’s back to waking up every night, and I’m so exhausted for a variety of reasons, I just put him in bed with me, then sleep like poo poo for the rest of the night because he bucks like a horse when he sleeps. I am weak. Eventually I want to get a bunk bed for them, and then work on getting them to sleep without having to physically touch them the entire time, and then eventually read them a bed time story and be done, say goodnight, shut off the lights, and leave while they are still awake and they can put themselves to sleep. It seems like such a far away, unobtainable dream at this point.
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Jun 13, 2024 23:08
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Tonight shall go down in the annals as The Battle of Toothbrushing Hill. In our hubris, we had thought this war won long ago...
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Jun 14, 2024 02:22
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I think I got HFM again. RIP
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Jun 14, 2024 02:30
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Brawnfire posted:Tonight shall go down in the annals as The Battle of Toothbrushing Hill. In our hubris, we had thought this war won long ago... 🫡
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Jun 14, 2024 02:44
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Brawnfire posted:Tonight shall go down in the annals as The Battle of Toothbrushing Hill. In our hubris, we had thought this war won long ago... I think I've fought more battles there than the Italians at Isonzo.
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Jun 14, 2024 03:21
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Why the gently caress do babies like hitting their heads on everything or throwing themselves back randomly? Kid just likes to sit against the sliding glass door and bounce himself off it hitting his head constantly. He also likes to like randomly throw his whole body back for whatever reason. Usually, I'm fine with him doing that on the bed or in his playpen since it has a soft flooring but sometimes, he likes to crawl around the tile and then just sit up and he'll toss himself back...like dog cmon man.
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Jun 15, 2024 00:44
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Skeezy posted:Why the gently caress do babies like hitting their heads on everything or throwing themselves back randomly? everything is a new experience, therefore fun to do. my son did that just like yours. Whenever he was upset about something he threw himself back. Eventually it happened when nothing was behind him, hurt himself even on the kiddy pad. he never did it again after that. it did suck he had to learn the hard way.
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Jun 15, 2024 00:52
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We survived the cruise. All in all the kids were pretty great. Everyone had their moments, but a lot of that was explained by poor sleep and/or hunger. Disney knows how to run a cruise ship though, drat. Completely well-oiled machine with fantastic service from everyone, I can see why people do multiple of these. Won’t be me unless my MIL is paying again, cruise ships are decidedly Not For Me.
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Jun 15, 2024 02:17
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Skeezy posted:Why the gently caress do babies like hitting their heads on everything or throwing themselves back randomly? It's definitely a thing, my daughter (17 months) bumps her head against things or bumps things in her hand against her head when she's upset. Usually starts lightly but sometimes gets harder.
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Jun 15, 2024 03:26
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GoutPatrol posted:everything is a new experience, therefore fun to do. Our 15mo has figured that all our floors are either wood or concrete, so she'll carefully lower herself backwards when she wants to crack the shits.
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Jun 15, 2024 04:27
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4yo: "Daddy, I need to tell you something. I do not like you anymore and I'm not going to play with you. You are too mean to me." Dad: "Am I?" 4yo: "You know I am a scientist." Dad: "....yes?" 4yo: "I HAVE TO LOOK FOR FOSSILS, DADDY." Dad: "..." 4yo: "SCIENTISTS LOOK FOR FOSSILS ALL DAY." Dad: "And?" 4yo: "YOU ARE WASTING MY TIME MAKING ME GO TO BED." Dad: "But it's bedtime." 4yo: "I need to look for fossils all night, and you are making me go to bed. I won't play with you if you are so mean to me." 4yo suddenly crashes and falls asleep. That's... sort of my life right now. I am the absolute worst, apparently, and I'm holding back the progress of science.  E: According to my wife, the wee bean has drawn me a T-cell for father's day. It looks an awful lot like last year's volcano, but it's definitely a T-cell. You let a kid watch a few Kurzegesagt videos and next thing you know, she's somehow a scientist. Sundae fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jun 15, 2024 |
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Jun 15, 2024 05:24
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| # ? Jan 20, 2026 16:01 |
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GoutPatrol posted:everything is a new experience, therefore fun to do. Oh god, until she was ~18 months or so my daughter would throw her head back into my sternum when she was angry sometimes, enough to take your breath sometimes. Also re: languages, I’m an American in Japan, my wife is Japanese, and we have our 2-and-change in public daycare. So I’m going to try and make sure she gets exposure (thanks, YouTube and Disney+!) and keeps picking up English at this stage. But she seems sharp and understands pretty well so far, just less able to speak it immediately.
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Jun 15, 2024 07:22
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