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Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE


I saw ads for The Wire HD reruns during a hockey game yesterday. I was really surprised!

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Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

Crumbletron posted:

I saw ads for The Wire HD reruns during a hockey game yesterday. I was really surprised!

Why do they use sticks? Can't they just kick it with their feet?

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



The HD remaster for the wire is pretty drat gorgeous, original intent be damned. After witnessing one terrible upscale (Simpsons) and hearing about another (Buffy), it makes me appreciate the effort HBO went through to make this. Rescanning the negatives, sitting with the original creators and making creative choices between cropping shots and opening up the matte, the color retiming, everything. It really is something that someone actually gave a gently caress when it wasn't there turn to, to paraphrase the show.

Hard Clumping
Mar 19, 2008

Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS


comes along bort posted:

Posted this article a while back, but actually the show was almost nothing but dolly shots. But yeah, every bit of the visual aspect was just as composed and pored over as the writing.

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/griffin_nick/hbo_the_wire.php

Yes, but were they fancy

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Downtown Clay Davis. :allears:

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


Fallen Rib

So I'm not going to go through the whole thread, but did anyone ever find out the reason for the trains and train tracks coinciding with the episodes?

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

nwin posted:

So I'm not going to go through the whole thread, but did anyone ever find out the reason for the trains and train tracks coinciding with the episodes?
:iiaca: ? What do you mean?

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


Fallen Rib

awesmoe posted:

:iiaca: ? What do you mean?

From the first page:

escape artist posted:

"Reform, Lamar, Reform."

<----Check the av.





Also, I remember David Simon saying, basically, that his intended interpretation of the train metaphor, well, the fans of the show have never come close to being correct on it. So that should definitely be a nut that we collectively try to crack.

I always thought the train was the institution, and if you don't get out of its way, it will demolish you. But apparently Simon has heard that metaphor, and it is not what he intended the trains to symbolize. We'll keep the trains in mind as we move through the series.

ScipioAfro
Feb 21, 2011


awesmoe posted:

:iiaca: ? What do you mean?

David Simon had a specific metaphor/thought/something in mind when he kept bringing up the train and train tracks in the series.

Alan Sepinwall (which I think is the critic that has the most contact with him??? ) has asked him a few times, and david has never given a straight answer on what its supposed to mean.

obviously its not like that's the be all and end all of the series, but its a fun thing to think about.

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005



I was wondering the same thing yesterday. What up with that train?
There's been no news that I know of.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


Wait when are there trains in the Wire? All I remember is Bunk and Jimmy pissing on the train tracks while they're drinking. And maybe a math question about a train in Prez's class?

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005



There's the scene with Jimmy and Bunk where one of them is pissing on the tracks with the train coming and all the other scenes of them drunk by the tracks.
Also Frank Sobatka and Spiros meet at the train tracks.
Otherwise I think it refers to the sounds of the train sprinkled here and there throughout the series.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



Back to the best season chat - the reason 4 is the best, outside of personal taste, is that it has the most important narrative, especially when taking current events into consideration.

One of the hardest things to get large portions of the populace to see is how personal choice is molded by the events around you, as their ego presses them to feel that all of their success comes strictly from self (thus juxtaposing that others' failure is dependent on self, as well). Thus, in cases like Ferguson, etc., people are quick to put the blame on those that commit crimes, and ignore the systematic reasons in which they do so.

Season 4 does the best at spitting in the face of that, as the perspective goes from state government all of the way down to children. It shows how "big decisions" trickle down and affect individuals to the point where they have little chance of success, and shows how success in life is basically a crap shoot of timing and opportunity. Michael, Namond, Dookie, and Randy were all good kids with a ton of potential, but due to pure circumstance and chance, only Namond was able to realize it, with the system and outside pressures striking each one of the others down. I've honestly never heard anyone whose watched that season go into blaming young black people for themselves ever again, honestly.

3 does a good job focusing on police targeting/problems, but, again, 4 kind of explores that a little better in my opinion as well, due to its smaller and more direct focus.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




freebooter posted:

Wait when are there trains in the Wire? All I remember is Bunk and Jimmy pissing on the train tracks while they're drinking. And maybe a math question about a train in Prez's class?

The piss tracks is what they're talking about.

Has Simon said it's not a metaphor for institutions? Because that's an interpretation that works really well, as far as I can tell. In season 1 Jimmy fights the institution, but it's a hopeless fight, like pissing on train tracks to stop a train, and if you keep on that fight the institution will come crashing on you.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



freebooter posted:

Wait when are there trains in the Wire? All I remember is Bunk and Jimmy pissing on the train tracks while they're drinking. And maybe a math question about a train in Prez's class?

Every time there's a big plot moment in the show, especially when centered around McNulty, Bunk and McNulty meet at the train tracks and have a conversation.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene


Fun Shoe

I haven't really noticed any problems with the HD transfer except for the shots coming from cameras looking off. The view of the soccer ball going down the hallway while Omar is screaming looks fisheyed. There's not many shots like that in the series though.

Cromulent
Dec 22, 2002

People are under a lot of stress, Bradley.

Party Plane Jones posted:

I haven't really noticed any problems with the HD transfer except for the shots coming from cameras looking off. The view of the soccer ball going down the hallway while Omar is screaming looks fisheyed. There's not many shots like that in the series though.
I noticed that too, it made me wonder if those security camera shots were recorded on actual videotape instead of film.

Aye Doc
Jul 19, 2007

my name is john carter



YF-23 posted:

The piss tracks is what they're talking about.

Has Simon said it's not a metaphor for institutions? Because that's an interpretation that works really well, as far as I can tell. In season 1 Jimmy fights the institution, but it's a hopeless fight, like pissing on train tracks to stop a train, and if you keep on that fight the institution will come crashing on you.

what he said is no critic yet has correctly figured out the symbolism behind the train tracks yet, and I'm sure I've read a few critics discussing the idea that they represent institution so I'm guessing it isn't that.

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005



It seems like Simon didn't have any intention of the train or tracks symbolizing the inevitable, uncaring, unstopping movement of something. So what's left? I'll I have is that the tracks are parallel and never touch yet they are the foundation for the machine. Two separate entities supporting a lumbering behemoth. Choose what you want the tracks to represent.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Pretty much the entire show is about institutions and how they gently caress over or corrupt individuals, so I find it hard to believe the train thing isn't somehow related. When Simon says nobody has gotten it yet he probably means its supposed to be a little more complex than just train = institutions, but I'd wager that's in the ballpark.

Aye Doc
Jul 19, 2007

my name is john carter



here is the most detailed answer he ever gave about it, best I can tell:

"But I am often surprised that sometimes the most fundamental thematic symbolism is ignored in television, where in a feature film it would be acknowledged and discussed. So much of television has for so long been filmed in a rapid-fire, utilitarian fashion that when filmmakers attempt to use the medium in any kind of visual or allegorical way, it rolls right past many people. This is true of some other well-made dramas on HBO as well."

loosenukes
Feb 13, 2005

you don't put your best missile in your crummiest hole

In the second to last episode of Season 5, Daniels goes down to evidence control to test the number on the wiretap. He says something like "glad you landed on your feet" to the officer showing him to the evidence...had we seen that guy before? I checked wiki and imdb but nothing made specific reference to the character.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

loosenukes posted:

In the second to last episode of Season 5, Daniels goes down to evidence control to test the number on the wiretap. He says something like "glad you landed on your feet" to the officer showing him to the evidence...had we seen that guy before? I checked wiki and imdb but nothing made specific reference to the character.

I think that's the guy that he throws out of the unit for being a lazy drunk.

Nairbo
Jan 2, 2005


loosenukes posted:

In the second to last episode of Season 5, Daniels goes down to evidence control to test the number on the wiretap. He says something like "glad you landed on your feet" to the officer showing him to the evidence...had we seen that guy before? I checked wiki and imdb but nothing made specific reference to the character.

It was Polk from Season 1. He was the one who considered lobbing himself down stairs instead of working when his partner retired when he was injured.

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


Little thing about the show I just realised, Micheal doesn't get a happy ending!

In many ways he is the new Omar, a street-smart loner who robs other drug dealers, and I guess I thought that there was a type of freedom in that for Micheal, he doesn't have to answer to anybody and controls his own life. But whereas Omar was a street legend, its actually highly unlikely that Micheal will replicate that.

He's intelligent and well trained so he could be successful, but more likely he will always have to sleep with one eye open and eventually he will just get killed by some random dealer/rival gang member, unnoticed and just another number on the board.

Omar always stood out in the show because he was larger than life, a wild west legend different to any other character than perhaps Mouzone. Micheal isn't going to be the same as that, he's just going to die.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





bucketybuck posted:

Little thing about the show I just realised, Micheal doesn't get a happy ending!

Neither does Dukie!

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

bucketybuck posted:

Omar always stood out in the show because he was larger than life, a wild west legend different to any other character than perhaps Mouzone. Micheal isn't going to be the same as that, he's just going to die.

Season 5 definitely does a good job of showing the difference between the Omar legend and the reality of his lifestyle. We see how far Omar's legend reaches(not very far at all), and how much it matters in the end(it doesn't help him avoid his death, in fact his legendary status leads to it). Being a street legend like Omar is worthless, its a way to survive just like any other in the Game, but its still just surviving, not living. Michael will survive as long as he can and then be killed or put in jail for many years.

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


YF-23 posted:

The piss tracks is what they're talking about.

Has Simon said it's not a metaphor for institutions? Because that's an interpretation that works really well, as far as I can tell. In season 1 Jimmy fights the institution, but it's a hopeless fight, like pissing on train tracks to stop a train, and if you keep on that fight the institution will come crashing on you.

I think it's just Simon loving with the fans because he wants people to think still more deeply about his work. That is, the trains are about institutions but there are other metaphors that are still uncovered and him just saying "yup, that's it" would kill the discussion.

doug fuckey
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

The idea that it's some kind of puzzle and needs to be 'cracked' is really dumb anyway.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



bucketybuck posted:

Little thing about the show I just realised, Micheal doesn't get a happy ending!

In many ways he is the new Omar, a street-smart loner who robs other drug dealers, and I guess I thought that there was a type of freedom in that for Micheal, he doesn't have to answer to anybody and controls his own life. But whereas Omar was a street legend, its actually highly unlikely that Micheal will replicate that.

He's intelligent and well trained so he could be successful, but more likely he will always have to sleep with one eye open and eventually he will just get killed by some random dealer/rival gang member, unnoticed and just another number on the board.

Omar always stood out in the show because he was larger than life, a wild west legend different to any other character than perhaps Mouzone. Micheal isn't going to be the same as that, he's just going to die.

If you think Mike's in for it, just imagine what's going to happen to his brother Bug. Hell, look at what happened to Omar's brother. Who wants to forever be known by those who even bothered to remember you as No Heart?

Michael had Bug's dad murdered, their mother will end up dead with a needle in her arm, and Bug's now related to a stick up boy, so he'll be ostracized by all the other corner kids who his brother is robbing. He'll be lucky if he ends up like No Heart Anthony.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


Doesn't Bug get given to a foster mother out in a relatively decent suburb?

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 


The Great Twist

Skeesix posted:

I think it's just Simon loving with the fans because he wants people to think still more deeply about his work. That is, the trains are about institutions but there are other metaphors that are still uncovered and him just saying "yup, that's it" would kill the discussion.

Mouzone's 'slow train coming' scene still makes me wonder. What (metaphorical) train? Slow? Where is it coming to? In context he's probably just mocking the city's attempts at reform but the dialog is sort of a mindfuck.

empty baggie
Oct 22, 2003



NOTinuyasha posted:

Mouzone's 'slow train coming' scene still makes me wonder. What (metaphorical) train? Slow? Where is it coming to? In context he's probably just mocking the city's attempts at reform but the dialog is sort of a mindfuck.

I took that more to mean progress is a slow train coming, but I guess reform works too.

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 


The Great Twist

Speaking of Mouzone, I need the background music from the final scene of season two episode nine, when Bunny leaves the towers and Mouzone makes his first appearance. I made a good effort to track it down during my original run years ago but came up empty. I'm not the only one.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013


NOTinuyasha posted:

Speaking of Mouzone, I need the background music from the final scene of season two episode nine, when Bunny leaves the towers and Mouzone makes his first appearance. I made a good effort to track it down during my original run years ago but came up empty. I'm not the only one.

it should be listed in the credits

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



bucketybuck posted:

Little thing about the show I just realised, Micheal doesn't get a happy ending!

His ending was never happy, the best you could say was that it was (sadly) as good as he was ever going to get. He's separated from his brother who is the only person he truly loves, all his old friends are gone, his childhood has long since been destroyed (He can't even remember the time he and Dukie went to 6 Flags) and all there is for him is a life of sleeping in vacants, ripping off drug dealers, and never being able to relax till he inevitably gets killed. The best thing you can say is that he got Bug out, and as far as Michael is concerned that probably makes everything else worth it.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


I remember saying nobody in the Wire apart from rear end in a top hat characters like Rawl and Valczek get happy endings, but that's definitely not true. Off the top of my head Bubbles, Carver and Daniels are all in an indisputably better place by the end of the series than they were at the start.

edit - I remember somebody saying that, not me.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene


Fun Shoe

The worst shot I've seen so far is the FLIR/helicopter camera shots for the end of season one when the buy goes south. The FLIR one isn't so bad but the helicopter camera that closes out the episode looks off.

Yates
Jan 29, 2010

People might look at you a bit funny, but it's okay. MVPs are allowed to be a bit different



Godinster posted:

It was Polk from Season 1. He was the one who considered lobbing himself down stairs instead of working when his partner retired when he was injured.

He was also part of the humps Valchek got for his first detail in Season 2.

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The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Jerusalem posted:

He can't even remember the time he and Dukie went to 6 Flags

It was the time they threw pee balloons on the other group of kids the previous summer :spergin:

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