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spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Escobarbarian posted:

That dude’s Littlefinger voice gets so so weird by the end

In The Wire he slowly turns into Diamond Joe Quimby

Which seems very apt.

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algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

I'm only at season 5, by which point it sounds pretty much Irish Batman but I cant wait to see how much weirder it gets

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends


There's a reason whenever Littlefinger turned up in Game Of Thrones I would instead call him "The Many Accents Of Aiden Gillen"

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

The best Carcetti acccent slip is the line about being white in a black city and the way he says the word "white" with a heavy emphasis on the h.

Geekslinger
Jan 30, 2005



I pointed out to my wife in season 2 that Dominic West is an English actor so his fake British accent was an American bastardization of a British accent was all that much better in this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL2Wq5YjSw

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


Basebf555 posted:

His story is all about how these societal pressures can build up in a person and lead to an irrevocable tragedy.

I hated that dumbass Ziggy right up until the pivotal murder scene, and that scene is still one of the most perfect I've ever watched.

It perfectly captured that feeling of rage building in Ziggy as he is yet again treated with contempt, that out of body feeling as he goes back into the store with the gun, that release of rage when he is punching the steering wheel afterwards, and then finally the sound stops being a dull background noise and goes back to a clear stereo as the adrenaline fades and he hears the sirens and we know he is hosed. You go from hating him to feeling really sorry for him.

Its also funny how we can empathise with him there. He lost the head and did something that completely crossed the line, but the show is choc full of characters who shot and killed other people, we don't feel the same for them because they didn't react the same. It must be a "in the game/not in the game" thing but most characters in the show who shot somebody would have hightailed it out of there, ditched the guns and laid low. Ziggy just sat there in tears waiting for the police to come. I can relate to that.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


bucketybuck posted:

I hated that dumbass Ziggy right up until the pivotal murder scene, and that scene is still one of the most perfect I've ever watched.

It perfectly captured that feeling of rage building in Ziggy as he is yet again treated with contempt, that out of body feeling as he goes back into the store with the gun, that release of rage when he is punching the steering wheel afterwards, and then finally the sound stops being a dull background noise and goes back to a clear stereo as the adrenaline fades and he hears the sirens and we know he is hosed. You go from hating him to feeling really sorry for him.

Its also funny how we can empathise with him there. He lost the head and did something that completely crossed the line, but the show is choc full of characters who shot and killed other people, we don't feel the same for them because they didn't react the same. It must be a "in the game/not in the game" thing but most characters in the show who shot somebody would have hightailed it out of there, ditched the guns and laid low. Ziggy just sat there in tears waiting for the police to come. I can relate to that.

What's this "we" stuff? I never one moment felt sorry for Ziggy. Hated the character from beginning to end.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




In a way, ziggy’s kind of like namond, in that he’s completely unsuited to the life he was born to, but doesn’t know what else to do on account of his father’s big shoes

Unlike namond, ziggy’s a head to toe fuckup and I can’t think of anything else he could do either

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Hasselblad posted:

What's this "we" stuff? I never one moment felt sorry for Ziggy. Hated the character from beginning to end.

"We" as in, like 99% of the people who watched the show. You are in the extreme minority.

Although to be fair, many people only realize the full extent of what Ziggy deals with on rewatch, or after the shooting scene when they look back on it. Have you rewatched Season 2?

People who become unredeemable were not always that way, it's easy to look at the endpoint and comfort yourself by thinking that they were just bad and always destined to commit horrible acts. But most of the time when you look back at their experiences you can see all the opportunities that were there to help that person go in a different direction. It can be very sad if you have basic empathy.

Ainsley McTree posted:

Unlike namond, ziggy’s a head to toe fuckup and I can’t think of anything else he could do either

The way Frank treats Ziggy is nothing new just because we're now watching it in Season 2. Don't you think Ziggy's rear end in a top hat personality is at least in part due to the fact that he's been mostly ignored by his father/hero his entire life? What if instead of putting all his energy into a dying union, Frank instead focused on making sure his son had paths to other careers and lifestyles than just being a dock worker? Oh hey Ziggy failed some community college classes, guess he was just a gently caress up all along lets go back to just ignoring him I'm sure he'll be fine.

A person came into Namond's life who was able to see past all that bullshit and recognized his potential and the lack of opportunities he'd had up to that point. Ziggy never had that chance.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Apr 14, 2018

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


Basebf555 posted:

Don't you think Ziggy's rear end in a top hat personality is at least in part due to the fact that he's been mostly ignored by his father/hero his entire life? What if instead of putting all his energy into a dying union, Frank instead focused on making sure his son had paths to other careers and lifestyles than just being a dock worker?

The strange thing for me is that I don't think Ziggy is completely a product of his environment. Yes he is a small man in a group of burly stevedores and living in his fathers shadow and it has left him feeling inadequate, but it can't be ignored that he is also just a bit of an rear end in a top hat anyway. The show takes pains to put him in situations where you just want him to shut the gently caress up, where he has acted like an idiot, hosed up the deal and it was no ones fault but his own. And yet in the end it still leaves you feeling sorry for him.

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

not all who wander are lost


Another BBC article about the show, says nothing new but a few interesting tidbits and another piece hailing it as the best show ever so hey

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180412-how-the-wire-became-the-greatest-tv-show-ever-made

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




bucketybuck posted:

The strange thing for me is that I don't think Ziggy is completely a product of his environment. Yes he is a small man in a group of burly stevedores and living in his fathers shadow and it has left him feeling inadequate, but it can't be ignored that he is also just a bit of an rear end in a top hat anyway. The show takes pains to put him in situations where you just want him to shut the gently caress up, where he has acted like an idiot, hosed up the deal and it was no ones fault but his own. And yet in the end it still leaves you feeling sorry for him.

Yeah that’s the thing; namond exhibits potential, but ziggy is just like...constantly loving up everything he tries to do, if there’s a niche for him, the show doesn’t go out of its way to show us what it might be.

So I’m not gonna say frank is father of the year or anything, but as much as I feel for ziggy, I feel a little bad for frank, too, his kid’s a scumbag

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Ainsley McTree posted:

Yeah that’s the thing; namond exhibits potential, but ziggy is just like...constantly loving up everything he tries to do, if there’s a niche for him, the show doesn’t go out of its way to show us what it might be.

So I’m not gonna say frank is father of the year or anything, but as much as I feel for ziggy, I feel a little bad for frank, too, his kid’s a scumbag

I'd say Ziggy is a fuckup rather than a scumbag.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


What would Ziggy have succeeded at if not the docks or selling drugs/boosting poo poo? I don't think he'd have been much better off at the community college.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

What would Ziggy have succeeded at if not the docks or selling drugs/boosting poo poo? I don't think he'd have been much better off at the community college.

There are LOTS of people like that - like Ziggy. Maybe they're a little autistic, a little mentally ill, a little damaged, whatever. There are people who simply do not fit into the world they are born into no matter HOW they try, and the best they can ever do is manage a pitiable impression.

I think when it comes to young men a lot of it has to do not necessarily with being an inborn fuckup, but just not having the same skill-set as those around him. Critically, a lot of those people have serious issues with masculine gender roles - either not fitting into them or bucking against them. Both of these things were true of Namond and Ziggy - they weren't queer but because of their appearance (having long hair or being scrawny/weedy) they were never really treated as MEN proper in the tough communities they were coming up in.\

But it's a very very common story. That's where all the drug addicts generally come from... pitiable kids like Ziggy or Namond or even Dukie of course who simply weren't built to have guns pointed at them.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.


Ziggy upsets people because he's the closest match to the average Wire viewer.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


kaworu posted:

There are LOTS of people like that - like Ziggy. Maybe they're a little autistic, a little mentally ill, a little damaged, whatever. There are people who simply do not fit into the world they are born into no matter HOW they try, and the best they can ever do is manage a pitiable impression.

I think when it comes to young men a lot of it has to do not necessarily with being an inborn fuckup, but just not having the same skill-set as those around him. Critically, a lot of those people have serious issues with masculine gender roles - either not fitting into them or bucking against them. Both of these things were true of Namond and Ziggy - they weren't queer but because of their appearance (having long hair or being scrawny/weedy) they were never really treated as MEN proper in the tough communities they were coming up in.\

But it's a very very common story. That's where all the drug addicts generally come from... pitiable kids like Ziggy or Namond or even Dukie of course who simply weren't built to have guns pointed at them.

To me, this hits the nail on the head: Ziggy is one of the most intelligent people in the series.*

He's a fuckup because he tries to succeed in two worlds: the shipyard where seniority counts for everything-tired old farts repeating the same story for 20 years get the respect and the streets - where muscle and perceived power are everything.

He has neither of these qualities and so fucks up because he is trying to compete in these worlds.

*
1-only one who considered looking up what the stuff they smuggled for The Greek did and knew how to use the web to do so
2-understood how digital cameras work
3-researched the prices and market value of them and so negotiated a better deal than Nick when selling them
4-the car-stealing plan was very clever and well-thought out. It only failed because GG could push him around.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Milky Moor posted:

Ziggy upsets people because he's the closest match to the average Wire viewer.

Im the girl sucking the mayors dick

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

What would Ziggy have succeeded at if not the docks or selling drugs/boosting poo poo? I don't think he'd have been much better off at the community college.

Penis model.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

It's a running theme with the show that so many of these characters could be doing other things if their circumstances had been different. Bodie, Wallace, D'Angelo, Michael, Dukie, Stringer, Ziggy, the list goes on and on with characters who are trapped by their circumstances and held back from ever reaching their true potential. Even Wee-bay of all people is given his moments that indicate he would have gone down a different path if it had been offered to him.

People become trapped and it's very very hard to get out and start a new life from scratch like Namond was able to do with Colvin's help. That's a huge part of what the show is about overall.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Honestly Ziggy was never going to be a wunderkind or anything but that doesn't mean he deserved the life he got

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


I just finished my third re-watch of season 2. The first time I watched it I cringed when Ziggy was in screen. He was such a gently caress up the only question was how he was going to gently caress things up for himself and for the characters I had real sympathy towards.

Second time I watched it, I was fascinated by the journey and the little clues along the way pointing towards what was going to happen.

This time? I cringed again but it was because of the emotional abuse Ziggy endured. Maybe it's the years between re-watches but I really feel for Ziggy. I wouldn't have withstood that kind of abuse over years any better than him. The way his cousin, his friends, his own father talk to him? I wouldn't have been able to stand it a day, let alone years, and you can be drat sure I would have responded with complete exile or violence eventually.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Mr. Prokosch posted:

I just finished my third re-watch of season 2. The first time I watched it I cringed when Ziggy was in screen. He was such a gently caress up the only question was how he was going to gently caress things up for himself and for the characters I had real sympathy towards.

Second time I watched it, I was fascinated by the journey and the little clues along the way pointing towards what was going to happen.

This time? I cringed again but it was because of the emotional abuse Ziggy endured. Maybe it's the years between re-watches but I really feel for Ziggy. I wouldn't have withstood that kind of abuse over years any better than him. The way his cousin, his friends, his own father talk to him? I wouldn't have been able to stand it a day, let alone years, and you can be drat sure I would have responded with complete exile or violence eventually.

The part where Nick loses his temper and he's like "Why don't you watch cartoons and let me handle this?" is some tremendous acting from both of them.

Also, every time Spiros says "Nico" I quietly say "cousin" in my head, that game has ruined me

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Zigs should have gone into porn.

Milky Moor posted:

Ziggy upsets people because he's the closest match to the average Wire viewer.

Same reason goons hate fat people!

Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Apr 18, 2018

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




how come prop joe and marlo have long nails.

Suxpool
Nov 20, 2002
I want something good to die for...to make it beautiful to live

Groovelord Neato posted:

how come prop joe and marlo have long nails.

it's a status symbol. an indication of wealth, because they don't do anything resembling labor.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Groovelord Neato posted:

how come prop joe and marlo have long nails.

I've never remotely noticed this. You got screencaps?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




i'd have to go back but marlo's are very long. here's a better but unrelated screencap:

https://twitter.com/Total_Bisquick/status/986549798122778624

Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Apr 19, 2018

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






At about 54 seconds into this video you can see marlos nails
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtoM9x-Bfu8

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




exact scene I was thinking of though you see them in other episodes. you see prop joe’s same season when he’s using a pay phone (the one I’m on - my first time through and I’ve been marathoning since last weekend).

i missed the ziggy talk but he sucked immensely and i was hoping someone would take him out. i figured it was inevitable.

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

Yes hello, this is Ervin Pepper, of Pepper, Pepper, and Bayleaf...

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


Yes, ma'am, this is Sydney Handjerker with Handjerker, Cohen & Bromburg.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




THIS THE HI HAT??

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




drat so chris got raped in prison huh.

Lord Sexatron
Aug 1, 2003


Groovelord Neato posted:

drat so chris got raped in prison huh.

The subtext was more like he got raped as a child.

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

Ainsley McTree posted:

THIS THE HI HAT??

No delivery. You make order, you come get. Good yaka mein, good noodle. Extra ketchup.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Lord Sexatron posted:

The subtext was more like he got raped as a child.

That was what I always assumed but Chris almost certainly did time as a youth so I guess it's not impossible?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




joe fingernail screen:

goodog
Nov 3, 2007



Long nails are useful for weed and coke. Also keeping them long and well-kept shows wealth and class without being flashy like jewellery. I think at some point it just became a fashion thing. A lot of rappers and NBA players have long / manicured nails these days.

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Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




what is this newspaper bullshit.

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