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spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Lemon posted:

I'm trying to put my finger on exactly why I hate McNulty more than the street guys, even though the vast majority of them are inarguably worse people.

I guess maybe it's because they are essentially more honest, especially with themselves. Also they don't act like spoiled children for the majority of their screentime.

He's very intelligent while most of them vary between 'dullards' and 'competent' - Kima is probably best of the rest, but she still doesn't have that genius spark.

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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

I did have a response along the lines of "well in season 4 he was less of a dick because he was a beat cop and was happy" then I remembered that he basically got Bodie killed and I'm now in agreement with you

idk mcnulty indirectly causes a ton of awful poo poo but i don't really think bodie was his fault- dude honestly wanted out but through no real fault of anyone's got caught

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


spog posted:

He's very intelligent while most of them vary between 'dullards' and 'competent' - Kima is probably best of the rest, but she still doesn't have that genius spark.

So more than once Stringer and McNulty are presented as two big rivals. They're also both presented as the smartest guys in the room, or at least convinced that they are. However this thread has repeatedly dissected Stringer's supposed superior intellect and found him wanting. There's the being played by politicians and real estate types. There's the complete misjudging of Marlo, Omar, Mouzone and Avon. There's the comments about the cell phone market. There might even be the idea that he's bigtime, whereas actually he's just another gangster controlling some blocks while guys like the Greek are the actual bigtime.

So if McNulty and Stringer as characters mirror eachother in many ways, can we not also conclude that McNulty is actually just as wildly overestimating his own intelligence? Sure, he has that "spark of genius" ability to at times approach a situation from a completely fresh angle, leading to useful ideas. Stringer had that with his rebranding initiative. But when it comes coupled with massive blind spots about their actual place in the game and constant unforeseen fallout from their schemes, how intelligent really are these characters? While Stringer gets his appropriately dramatic and explicit comeuppance, doesn't McNulty actually suffer the same, albeit in less dramatic fashion?

His life is a complete shambles, mostly as a result of his own choices. Cop movies/shows have repeated this trope of a detective so consumed by his work that his personal life is hosed but as a result he's now the only one who can stop the bad guys for decades. It's in Heat, it's in Donnie Brasco, it's in Die Hard, it's even in Lethal Weapon. Isn't the Wire challenging this presentation through the character of McNulty? His life is hosed because of his work. While obsessing over his work certainly gives him an advantages over those colleagues who either never gave a gently caress or stopped giving a gently caress a long time ago, it doesn't make him a supercop. He still fucks up, all the time. And a good chunk of those gently caress ups are precisely because he is so singularly obsessed with the work, with Stringer, but perhaps most of all with proving (to himself?) that he's the smartest guy in the room.

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


Yeah, remember that conversation between Rawls and Landsman, where Landsman points out that McNulty had a really dumb partner and that gave him his attitude? I think he was right. McNulty can be smart, but he's rarely the smartest person in the room. Not if the room has Bunk, Lester, or Rhonda, or someone from most of the non-cop cast in it. But like Landsman says, when McNulty bites down on something he never lets it go, which can be an asset even if letting go is sometimes the smarter move. McNulty isn't some super genius, he just gives a poo poo when it's not his turn to give a poo poo.

This might connect to a larger commentary on the nature of intelligence and self image in our culture.

WithoutTheFezOn
Aug 28, 2005
Oh no

StashAugustine posted:

idk mcnulty indirectly causes a ton of awful poo poo but i don't really think bodie was his fault- dude honestly wanted out but through no real fault of anyone's got caught
McNulty picked Bodie up at jail, without Bodie knowing about it. That is directly why Bodie got shot.

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

WithoutTheFezOn posted:

McNulty picked Bodie up at jail, without Bodie knowing about it. That is directly why Bodie got shot.

bodie got shot because marlo was a monster who ordered people murdered at the slightest hint of suspicion or of disrespect

empty baggie
Oct 22, 2003



Yeah, McNulty pushed Bodies storyline along, but realistically, knowing what we know about the characters, even if McNutty hadn’t ever gotten involved, Marlo would have soon enough had Bodie killed for some other reason.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


Bodie was already showing disrespect to Marlo, McNutty may have sped the process up but Bodie was over the life but couldn't leave voluntarily

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


"Lock his dumb rear end up".

Yeah, Bodie was pretty much hosed in or out of jail. I do think Mcnutty actually liked and maybe even respected him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMh0goQ0Z8

e:also, McNulty wasn't a genius or anything but he was a hell of a detective. He couldn't help tripping over his stupid ego
e2: I kinda wonder if he respected him more because he wasn't a boss and could therefore relate

Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Jul 15, 2018

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I do love that McNulty really is the stereotypical "loose unit cop who plays by his own rules but gets the job done!" character and throughout the course of the series we see how incredibly toxic a character like that is to his friends, his workmates, people he associates with etc but most especially himself. It's not something to be lauded or approved, he's a giant piece of poo poo whose rare moments of introspection often don't stick for long.

I'm negative on him a lot in this thread but I have to stress that I love the character, love the development, especially love the acting, and I think yet another part of what makes The Wire so strong is that it is able to take such a typical and familiar character and play around with it in such interesting and often unexpected ways.

ChairmanGoesWoof
Jul 12, 2016


"Natural po-lice ...but Christ, what an rear end in a top hat!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVEwpYt0EwE

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


Orange Devil posted:

His life is hosed because of his work.

Is it though? What part of the case made him get drunk every night, repeatedly cheat on his wife, take advantage of Rhonda and basically treat everybody else like his own personal stepping stone? Its not like he was under any pressure at work considering the vast majority of the time his bosses just wanted him to shut the gently caress up and stop causing trouble.

His work didn't gently caress up his personal life, like everything else the root cause of his problems boil down to one thing, he is an rear end in a top hat.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




It is a very satisfying scene where he’s on the date with Theresa, trying to brag about his very important police work and she’s just kind of like “oh...” and deflates him completely.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Wooper posted:

Bodie gets a bad rap with regards to Wallace.
When times come to do the deed, Bodie can't quite do it. He is trying to talk himself into doing it but he can't. He is trembling as Poot :devil: yells at him to do it, startling the poor boy.
The gun goes off but as Wallace's wound was presumably non-fatal, Poot takes the gun and coldly finishes the job.

RIP Bodie :angel: Never mind the premeditation.



Poot gets off easy tho. (In internet discussions, I'm saying)

Poot was an idiot.
Nearing yet another rewatch of S1 and for the life of me I cannot grasp what Poot's "position" was in the scheme of the game. Beyond not keeping his mouth shut about others to his superiors.

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jul 15, 2018

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Poots the best im glad he got out

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


Hasselblad posted:

Poot was an idiot.
Nearing yet another rewatch of S1 and for the life of me I cannot grasp what Poot's "position" was in the scheme of the game. Beyond not keeping his mouth shut about others to his superiors.

He was a reliable worker who didn't gently caress up the count and was willing to get his hands dirty.

Edit: Part of the whole point of Bodie and Poots story is that they had been in the game since their early teens. Plenty of people in their peer group died or went to prison or were unreliable and got hosed up. Those two survived.

exmachina fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jul 16, 2018

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


exmachina posted:

Those two survived.

Well, one out of two survived.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


bucketybuck posted:

Is it though? What part of the case made him get drunk every night, repeatedly cheat on his wife, take advantage of Rhonda and basically treat everybody else like his own personal stepping stone? Its not like he was under any pressure at work considering the vast majority of the time his bosses just wanted him to shut the gently caress up and stop causing trouble.

His work didn't gently caress up his personal life, like everything else the root cause of his problems boil down to one thing, he is an rear end in a top hat.

OK maybe his life is hosed because he's obsessive about some things to the detriment of others and also a general gently caress up and rear end in a top hat and his line of work just enables all of that.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


Hasselblad posted:

Well, one out of two survived.

Too soon, man

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Hasselblad posted:

Nearing yet another rewatch of S1 and for the life of me I cannot grasp what Poot's "position" was in the scheme of the game.

He had the highly desired "pussyhound" position locked down.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


*someone* had to get arrested for hamsterdam

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I love his explanation for how he got out ("So I was all... what the gently caress?") and then revealing that he might have already picked up an STD since getting out :xd:

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

That scene is also great for Little Kevin explaining Spongebob to Bodie.

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

One hanging thread I was just thinking about. Why didn't the "Daniels is dirty" subplot go anywhere? IIRC all there was was McNulty's FBI buddy mentioning something to him, and maybe a handful of times someone commenting on Daniels' fancy digs, but overall it never factored into any plotlines.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Have you watched all the series?

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

Yes but I haven't watched S5 since it aired.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


I think you can guess that I've answered your question.


Which leads to a question from me: why the hell haven't you watched the last series recently????

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




It does come up: carcetti’s team uses it to sink daniels’ career at the end of season 5 when they appoint him commissioner and refuses to be their political stooge.

There’s also a very satisfying scene where Burrell tries to use it as leverage to save himself and the rep is just like “don’t care” and casually takes it and fucks Burrell over anyway. Poor guy thought it was his trump card

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

Ainsley McTree posted:

It does come up: carcetti’s team uses it to sink daniels’ career at the end of season 5 when they appoint him commissioner and refuses to be their political stooge.

There’s also a very satisfying scene where Burrell tries to use it as leverage to save himself and the rep is just like “don’t care” and casually takes it and fucks Burrell over anyway. Poor guy thought it was his trump card


Oh, surprise*, I'm a dumbass. Thanks!

* - not a surprise

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



bucketybuck posted:

Is it though? What part of the case made him get drunk every night, repeatedly cheat on his wife, take advantage of Rhonda and basically treat everybody else like his own personal stepping stone? Its not like he was under any pressure at work considering the vast majority of the time his bosses just wanted him to shut the gently caress up and stop causing trouble.

His work didn't gently caress up his personal life, like everything else the root cause of his problems boil down to one thing, he is an rear end in a top hat.

He is the type of person who's work life is his personal life, and everything revolves around it. He is an rear end in a top hat, and thinks he is so good at his job he is invincible and untouchable by anyone else. Daytime drinking and cheating are just his way of trying to assert his supremacy over everyone else.

He is the kind of guy who thinks he is the hot poo poo, but in reality in terms of performance just above average, and on a constant verge of being thrown out because of being a hindrance to the overall productivity. Every larger workplace has one, and always on the "upper non-management staff".

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



McNulty's face in this scene gets me every time, it's so loving good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn0ylNZhOJI

goodog
Nov 3, 2007



Hasselblad posted:

Poot was an idiot.
Nearing yet another rewatch of S1 and for the life of me I cannot grasp what Poot's "position" was in the scheme of the game. Beyond not keeping his mouth shut about others to his superiors.

In rank or mentality? In rank he was a street level dealer, with the responsibilities of selling to customers and being local security. Under him were the younger children who transport drugs and cash between the local stash and the dealer. He works in shifts, and might also be tasked with guarding a stash-house. That's where he is when Omar first robs the Barksdales. Poot is the same rank as Bodie and Wallace, but Wallace is lower in status because he's younger and less committed to the organisation. Poot answers directly to D'Angelo, who answers to Stringer.

After killing Wallace and D'Angelo is arrested, Poot is given D'Angelo's old job running the low rises. He now answers to Bodie, who is charge of one of the towers.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


About halfway through S1 of Bosch. It is really weird to see Daniels, even though he is almost the same character (I am waiting for a "the gently caress did I do?" scene) and even more jarring to see Marlow as a good guy.

Where's the Bosch thread, dammit?

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Levy is in season 2, too.

Yeah Bosch is really good pulp tv, in hindsight it doesn't get better than Season 2 but they are all at very watchable.

Dongattack
Dec 20, 2006

by Cyrano4747


I'm rewatching the show for like the 11th time i'm sure, but it's a really complicated show so every time i do i catch something i'd missed or don't understand. How come (in season 1) Barksdale &co gave money to politicians? Money laundering in some way? Bribes? But bribes for what?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Dongattack posted:

I'm rewatching the show for like the 11th time i'm sure, but it's a really complicated show so every time i do i catch something i'd missed or don't understand. How come (in season 1) Barksdale &co gave money to politicians? Money laundering in some way? Bribes? But bribes for what?

Pretty sure that the main reason is they like to buy property, and known drug kingpins can't really do that very easily without the wheels being greased in certain areas. Clay Davis was Stingers main connection to the people who handle building permits, which didn't come into play heavily until Season 3, but the Barksdale crew owned and was continuing to buy property right from the beginning of the series.

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

The bribes were in exchange for davis telling them which areas the city was planning on redeveloping. Barksdale would bribe davis to get that info, buy up the properties in those areas dirt cheap cos they were basically vacant/busted, then the city would buy them back from him (at inflated rates that he got to control) for redevelopment.
There's a scene in probably the second to last episode with lester at the board pinning up a newspaper on it when he explains it to prez.

Dongattack
Dec 20, 2006

by Cyrano4747


Ah yeah, that makes sense. The money went everywhere near officials tho, i guess they were just trying to get whomever they could into their pocket? It's kinda sad then really that they spent so much money and energy on buying politicians and the like and they never actually got anything but problems cause of it.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Dongattack posted:

Ah yeah, that makes sense. The money went everywhere near officials tho, i guess they were just trying to get whomever they could into their pocket? It's kinda sad then really that they spent so much money and energy on buying politicians and the like and they never actually got anything but problems cause of it.

I think I disagree with that: they had so much legitimate money because of their fronts that they didn't need to deal on the streets anymore. If it wasn't for Avon and his corner mentality, they could have liked like untouchable kings.

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Dongattack
Dec 20, 2006

by Cyrano4747


spog posted:

I think I disagree with that: they had so much legitimate money because of their fronts that they didn't need to deal on the streets anymore. If it wasn't for Avon and his corner mentality, they could have liked like untouchable kings.

Were the fronts actually working a profit tho? I'm just thinking about the whole series of scenes where it was revealed that Clay was scamming Stringer all along and i assumed that it was hinted at then that the whole business was operating at a loss and going nowhere. But also now that i think about it it could just be a scene showing Clay Davis being Clay Davis and everything that didn't involve him probably ran a whole lot smoother.

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