Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


cargo cult posted:

why do the plainclothes cops sometimes stick their sidearms in their desk drawers? also what whos plainclothes and who isnt? like herc, collicho and carver before his promotion all wear plainclothes but arent homicide detectives

Grips jabbing into your side when seated sucks.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


Data Graham posted:

Maaan, that was a nice finale. Loved all the little low-key goodbyes. The wake especially, where everybody's basically parting as respectful adversaries. There's no forgiving the unforgivable, but that aside, they're all bros.

Also Snoop's death felt all Kill Bill'ish. "My hair look all right?"

Snoop's death was another thing that rang super false on rewatch. It was just a couple of episodes ago that Michael was telling Dukie that you can't hesitate with a gun. Now Michael doesn't know if snoop's got a gun on her anywhere but here he is holding the gun on her in a car where she could just grab it at any time, just for the chance for the script to tell Michael "You was never one of us."

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

I'm a horse of a different color


It's come up before but if you like Wire you should check out The Shield if you've never seen it. It's not that similar to The Wire other than both being cop shows with great acting, but it's extremely good. It's much more action-y and fast-paced, has bad guy of the week episodes but also solid season plots. Vic Mackey is an excellent character, he's the epitome of "hate to love."

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





I had The Shield on my to-watch list next. Wasn't sure what kind of show exactly either one was going in, but both certainly get a lot of plaudits it seems.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Data Graham posted:

I had The Shield on my to-watch list next. Wasn't sure what kind of show exactly either one was going in, but both certainly get a lot of plaudits it seems.

It's an excellent show but Pellisworth described it well--don't expect anything on the caliber of The Wire, but do prepare for an extremely above-average cop show. The main character's fascinating, and his arc is excellently done. The supporting cast is great too of course.

one of television's more grating theme songs, though

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.




cargo cult posted:

if the fifth season is bad it's primarily cause of the newspaper stuff, not the serial killer. the serial killer plot is firmly in jump the shark territory but some of the comedic writing and delivery is amazing. the newspaper stuff on the other hand is awful, i dont give a poo poo about these surly, snarky old fucks. gus is an insufferable sanctimonious prick and none of their plot lines intersect with the street stuff in a way that anyone can possibly give a poo poo about. it makes me think of a great landsman line from one of the eulogies "his poo poo was as weak as ours" all of the cops are drunks and gently caress ups but because of the casting theyre all super watchable. the newspaper people are apparently flawless, except when lovely decisions get forced on them by corporate. except in real life they basically enabled trump and the alt right at every given opportunity.

if theyd had more of kima in homicide and more of michael, a character they spent an entire season building up, it'd have been fine. instead they short change him for the newspaper bs.

I agree they're a bunch of boring assholes(and a lot of that is due to poor casting) but they're not flawless, they're just people who've convinced themselves they're Very Ethical and act accordingly. But they don't actually do poo poo to help anyone or report on anything that matters in the least. If the show had been made a few years later there'd probably some interesting dissection of the media's obsession with The Discourse, but this was still Bush era so things were different. The storyline doesn't do as good a job as the docks or the school subplots to show that the numbers game ruins everything, but ultimately that's what it's trying to say. The only people who care about the truth get buried because management wants to sell papers.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Mar 1, 2019

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

I'm a horse of a different color


Ainsley McTree posted:

It's an excellent show but Pellisworth described it well--don't expect anything on the caliber of The Wire, but do prepare for an extremely above-average cop show. The main character's fascinating, and his arc is excellently done. The supporting cast is great too of course.

one of television's more grating theme songs, though

The other thing that I forgot to mention about The Shield is how Los Angeles is kind of a character like Baltimore is in The Wire. If you've lived in LA (I was there for eight years), you'll recognize a ton of familiar locations. The main characters are based on the real-life corrupt cops of the Rampart Division, and Aceveda is loosely Antonio Villaraigosa (much less so than Carcetti is O'Malley). The gangs, ethnic, and faith communities are all major parts of the plot and show overall. It's certainly very LA.

Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Mar 1, 2019

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Please tell me thereís a noir scene at Angels Flight

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

I'm a horse of a different color


Data Graham posted:

Please tell me thereís a noir scene at Angels Flight

No, the show's pretty self-serious and doesn't dip into noir.

There's a ton of locations in Hollywood, Koreatown, Echo Park. I remember when in the show they bust some Armenian mafia above Ara's pastry and I was like whoa, I live literally one block from there, cool!

That's when I learned I was living at the (mostly former) epicenter of Armenian Power turf (Normandie and Hollywood) and twenty years ago it had been gangland central.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Lurdiak posted:

The storyline doesn't do as good a job as the docks or the school subplots to show that the numbers game ruins everything, but ultimately that's what it's trying to say. The only people who care about the truth get buried because management wants to sell papers.

A big part of the issue is that Simon, perhaps because he was too close to the source material, didn't give the paper bosses the depth he gave to the bosses/bad guys in other institutions. We're told the paper is still actually making a profit which brings the need for the initial job cuts into question, but never get any sense as to why the bosses still had to (or chose to) make the cuts or close down the London Bureau etc in spite of that. There is no sense of the pressures they may be facing, what exterior factors are coming to bear, whether the owner's political leanings are playing any part, whether they've been hit with long-term projections by analysts of bad economic times coming etc. They're just a bunch of easily bamboozled idiots who stand around gaping and gawping as they do dumb and bad things and apparently have zero understanding of the reality on the ground of a major metropolitan newspaper unless Gus is condescendingly telling them what's up.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Mar 1, 2019

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011


The Corner by David Simon is the best show ever made check it out on YouTube if you like the Wire

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Just because someone called you a racist in the rap thread doesnít mean you have to go trying to prove your cred now

lmao Iím so sorry it was just right there

Julio Cruz
May 19, 2006



Just finished S1 (again) and holy loving poo poo how did I never realise that Wallace is Michael B Jordan :psyduck:

ChairmanGoesWoof
Jul 12, 2016


https://twitter.com/idriselba/status/972042690975158272

Whiz Palace
Dec 8, 2013


I thought Idris didn't like talking about/acknowledging The Wire... but I suppose it's fair to make an exception in this case.

Dodoman
Feb 26, 2009



A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret


Lipstick Apathy

Whiz Palace posted:

I thought Idris didn't like talking about/acknowledging The Wire... but I suppose it's fair to make an exception in this case.

Any reason why?

Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

Dodoman posted:

Any reason why?

quote:

Reflecting on that legacy, the actor also expressed some concerns over the way the character came to be glorified.

"We're all idolising Stringer Bell, but who are we really idolising?" Elba said. "Are we idolising a smart drug dealer or a dumb narcotics dealer? What are we saying here? Is it okay to pump a community full of heroin, but because you're smart at it that makes you cool?

"That was a problem for me."

Though Elba acknowledged that it wasn't an issue when he was playing the role, in later years he came to have concerns over the way in which Stringer Bell was viewed.

"We celebrate him because he's a drug dealer and we can put him in a box - but oh, by the way, he's learning in school and he's very articulate. The irony of it used to just make me laugh," Elba said.

"The truth of the matter is most drug dealers go to jail at some point in their lives. They get caught.

"It doesn't matter how successful they are. It doesn't matter how good to the community they are. They will end up getting caught because what they're doing is illegal. As much as people celebrated the character, the harsh reality is that you either get shot or go to jail."

I think anybody who paid close enough attention doesn't idolize Bell the way he thinks, though. It was clear that while he was smart, his understanding of business was facile at best. He was intended to be another example of self-delusion of getting away from the system, in my opinion. The way he got played at the end cements that.

edit: the more I think about it, it's almost like he didn't watch the show at all. The Wire is ultimately making the exact point that he is, along with similarly bleak messages about police work, reporting, politics, etc.

Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 6, 2019

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

Yeah, but tons of people miss the point.

Also somebody said there's no such thing as an anti war movie, because on some level you are glorifying it. Same with a show about drug dealers?

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


when i grow up i want to be brother mouzone

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Bell was extremely good at his one thing, and therefore assumed that heíd be extremely good at anything else he tried to do, but didnít have anyone around him (except Avon I guess, but he was busy with his own thing) to tell him he was full of poo poo.

In another universe, heíd be a Silicon Valley ceo, or Howard Schultz

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Nail Rat posted:

I think anybody who paid close enough attention doesn't idolize Bell the way he thinks, though. It was clear that while he was smart, his understanding of business was facile at best. He was intended to be another example of self-delusion of getting away from the system, in my opinion. The way he got played at the end cements that.

edit: the more I think about it, it's almost like he didn't watch the show at all. The Wire is ultimately making the exact point that he is, along with similarly bleak messages about police work, reporting, politics, etc.

I think his thoughts on it were more accurate when the show was actually airing, which is the case with a lot of HBO shows actually. You have that whole crowd who really only follows along to see which character will be graphically murdered(or "whacked", if we're talking Sopranos fandom) and a lot of media coverage surrounding the show focused on that aspect too. As the years go by and people delve into the show in more detail with multiple rewatches, the discussion becomes a lot more nuanced and I think at that point most people discussing it understand what's going on with a character like Stringer.

Oz was mostly the same way, when it was airing there wasn't a whole lot of mention about what the show was presenting in terms of the American justice system, most people seemed much more concerned about which buy was gonna get shivved in that weeks' episode.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


deoju posted:

Yeah, but tons of people miss the point.

Also somebody said there's no such thing as an anti war movie, because on some level you are glorifying it. Same with a show about drug dealers?

The thing with war movies is that war is inherently pretty drat exciting. Except most veterans who have been in the poo poo don't come back all excited because of the constant chance of death they were exposed to. When you consume war as film you get some of the excitement but none of the risk and consequences. Drug dealers and police get some of the same excitement, what with gang wars and the war on drugs and all that, but again none of the risk and consequences for the viewers.

That said, Come and See manages to be a anti war movie that is not going to leave anyone excited.

Shut up Meg
Jan 8, 2019

You're safe here.


Nail Rat posted:

quote:

Reflecting on that legacy, the actor also expressed some concerns over the way the character came to be glorified.

"We're all idolising Stringer Bell, but who are we really idolising?" Elba said. "Are we idolising a smart drug dealer or a dumb narcotics dealer? What are we saying here? Is it okay to pump a community full of heroin, but because you're smart at it that makes you cool?

"It doesn't matter how successful they are. It doesn't matter how good to the community they are. They will end up getting caught because what they're doing is illegal. As much as people celebrated the character, the harsh reality is that you either get shot or go to jail.".

edit: the more I think about it, it's almost like he didn't watch the show at all. The Wire is ultimately making the exact point that he is,

He's going to get a hell of a shock when he watches season 3

Angryhead
Apr 4, 2009

Don't call my name
Don't call my name
Alejandro




Fallen Rib

Orange Devil posted:

The thing with war movies is that war is inherently pretty drat exciting. Except most veterans who have been in the poo poo don't come back all excited because of the constant chance of death they were exposed to. When you consume war as film you get some of the excitement but none of the risk and consequences. Drug dealers and police get some of the same excitement, what with gang wars and the war on drugs and all that, but again none of the risk and consequences for the viewers.

That said, Come and See manages to be a anti war movie that is not going to leave anyone excited.

Just popping in to say vouch for Come and See, it's an incredible movie and definitely one of the most horrifying ones I've ever seen. A few years ago I had the chance to see it at a local horror festival which included Q&A from some cast members and that was super cool.

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

by Fluffdaddy


Nail Rat posted:

I think anybody who paid close enough attention doesn't idolize Bell the way he thinks, though.

it's like tony soprano- james gandolfini hated what a piece of poo poo the character he was playing made him feel, and anyone who's reading the subtext can see it's a deeply flawed character and not someone to idolize.

that said, most people don't pay close enough attention. the majority of people are there to see a cool guy get one over on entrenched authority t:hehe:, and consequently they idolize tony soprano/stringer bell the way he fears they do.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


What does it say that so many people just flat out don't understand anti-heroes?

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Orange Devil posted:

What does it say that so many people just flat out don't understand anti-heroes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzPN_8GwYA

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:

it's like tony soprano- james gandolfini hated what a piece of poo poo the character he was playing made him feel, and anyone who's reading the subtext can see it's a deeply flawed character and not someone to idolize.

that said, most people don't pay close enough attention. the majority of people are there to see a cool guy get one over on entrenched authority t:hehe:, and consequently they idolize tony soprano/stringer bell the way he fears they do.

Yeah, just because a show is complex doesnít mean itís fans are. The actress who played skylar in breaking bad got irl harassment from fans who were mad at her for getting in the way of walterís cool and fun crimes

https://nyti.ms/1f8fIOi?smid=nytcore-ios-share

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011


Escobarbarian posted:

Just because someone called you a racist in the rap thread doesnít mean you have to go trying to prove your cred now

lmao Iím so sorry it was just right there

I've always posted in The Wire thread and recommended the Corner in the past. I already said I'm done arguing in the rap thread since we clearly cannot agree. Not sure why you're following my posting history and continuing to harass me for an opinion I made in an entirely different subforum, it's pretty weird.

Here's an idea, let's try talking about the Wire and similar David Simon shows in The Wire thread, instead of calling me a racist for my opinions about music. I think that's why we organize the forum into groupings like this.

denzelcurrypower fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Mar 7, 2019

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011


Nail Rat posted:

edit: the more I think about it, it's almost like he didn't watch the show at all. The Wire is ultimately making the exact point that he is, along with similarly bleak messages about police work, reporting, politics, etc.

Agree with this. After all, Stringer Bell did end up a failed businessman and murdered by his allies, so I'm not sure why Idris is upset with his depiction in the show. It's not like he was a success story in any way.

If fans choose to view him as a hero or role model, that is a misinterpretation on their part, not an issue in the work.

I guess if you only watch Season 1 and 2 he seems like a role model character in a way? At least more admirable than the street level gangsters. But in the end, the point is he is a gangster none the less, and will face the same consequences that the system ultimately imposes on everyone else in the game. If I remember right, he also steals the girlfriend of one of the guys in the pen which is pretty lame.

denzelcurrypower fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 7, 2019

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

It was just a joke my dude, Iím not trying to harass you :shrug:

Kemper Boyd
Aug 6, 2007

no kings, no gods, no masters but a comfy chair and no socks


Hasselblad posted:

Grips jabbing into your side when seated sucks.

Homicide notes that quite a few of the homicide dicks Simon followed around for a year didn't actually even carry their service weapons while on the job.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Hey, I know this is some shameful poo poo, but I've started to do write-ups of Sopranos over in Ishamael's thread in a similar vein to how I did for The Wire. First episode write-up is here and I hope to maintain a similar output to what I did for The Wire, schedule permitting.

Second episode has Bodie in it!

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Jerusalem posted:

Hey, I know this is some shameful poo poo, but I've started to do write-ups of Sopranos over in Ishamael's thread in a similar vein to how I did for The Wire. First episode write-up is here and I hope to maintain a similar output to what I did for The Wire, schedule permitting.

Second episode has Bodie in it!

Thanks for sharing, I've had sopranos on the brain lately for some reason, so I'll be following!

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011


Just watching this show for the first time and got to say I get the love, but the quality is so hot and cold. I found season 3 took me awhile to get through, but I basically watched binged season 4 in a single day

That said, I'm not digging season 5 at all. To ditch the Namond/Dukie/Snitchin' Randy characters for serial killer McNulty and dated newspaper references is not doing it for me at all. Is the series conclusion worth it, or should I just pretend it ended at season 4 and I never watched these first three episodes of season 5?

I think my absolutely favourite scene in a show full of golden scenes was McNulty finding out about the murder of Stringer Bell

Greggs: just told McNulty about Stringer
Freamon: how'd he take it?
Greggs: Like Stringer was kin :rolleyes:

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Itís worth finishing. The newspaper plot is bad and the serial killer thing is a bit much but the season overall is worth watching.

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

Season 5 didn't work for me the first time through. It's still probably my least favorite. It's definitely worth it though.

You gotta watch for how things end for Bubbles and Omar at least.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I thought season 5 was the weakest, but even with the serial killer storyline and the poorly handled newspaper subplot it's still very good and the resolution is superb.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Season 5 is bad. Just watch the last half of the last episode.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


Season 5 may well be the 5th best season of television ever made, but there's a high bar.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply