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dreffen
Dec 3, 2005

MEDIOCRE, MORSOV!



Data Graham posted:

I woke up this morning thinking that Dominic West looks enough like Steve Guttenberg that perhaps The Wire was created as a gritty reboot of Police Academy, and now I can't breathe

I'd watch it.

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theblackw0lf
Apr 14, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

This article (which references The Wire) made me go back and start watching the show again. Started the first episode thinking "hey I'll just watch an episode or two" and ended up binging the first season again over a couple of days. (Fifth time watching)

God drat this show is so good.

It makes me frustrated we will likely never see a show of similar type, scope and quality ever again.

Cloud the Cat
Apr 21, 2010



I'm attempting to buy this series for my brother as a birthday present. I'd prefer to buy it digitally but also send him a DVD/Blu-Ray set as well. Does anyone know if it's possible to buy a boxed set that comes with a digital copy as well? I've checked Amazon but it doesn't seem to have digital seasons, it just wants you to sign up to amazon prime?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




I don't think there's a thread for it but if you want to stay mad about social injustice and want to see something else with Michael K Williams, When They See Us on Netflix about the central park five is really well done and also absolutely devastating.

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011


I haven't re-watched in a while, can't remember something from the show. Why does Prop Joe give so much info to Marlo about his connect and how to launder money? Joe seems like the most level headed gangster in the show but not giving up your connect is like drug dealer 101. Is it just to avoid violence?

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

Ornithology posted:

I haven't re-watched in a while, can't remember something from the show. Why does Prop Joe give so much info to Marlo about his connect and how to launder money? Joe seems like the most level headed gangster in the show but not giving up your connect is like drug dealer 101. Is it just to avoid violence?

Omar steals a shipment from Joe. Joe is able to convince his other dealers to stick with him and not make him eat the expenses because he threatens to cut off the other dealers from his supplier if they don't accept his offer.

Marlo however craves more assurances than that and Joe (probably out of fear of reprisal, and because he likes having Marlo's muscle on his side) allows Marlo to meet up with Spiros in order to hear directly from him that Joe isn't pulling something shady since Marlo has no proof that Joe isn't screwing him on the allegedly stolen shipment.

As for why he teaches him to launder money well Joe is hoping to keep Marlo happy and on his side so that Joe can use Marlo's muscle to dominate the Baltimore drug trade. The problem is Joe fails to put two and two together when Marlo asks how to launder money and doesn't realize he's trying to usurp him.

I'm not 100% thrilled with that whole storyline to be honest. It makes sense but it doesn't feel completely earned. I feel like Joe should see through what Marlo is trying to do and indeed Slim even warns Joe to be wary of Marlo's intentions. Joe hand waves that off by saying the Greeks are too cautious to meet with anyone but him but he should realize more than anyone how the Greeks will keep business going at the cost of anyone - even him.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Marlo basically forced Joe to set up a meeting after Omar robbed Joe during the resupply, since the reliability of the supply was in question. Joe correctly assumed that the connect would stay loyal to him, but didn't think Marlo would dare to kill him for it.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Ginette Reno posted:


Marlo however craves more assurances than that and Joe (probably out of fear of reprisal, and because he likes having Marlo's muscle on his side) allows Marlo to meet up with Spiros in order to hear directly from him that Joe isn't pulling something shady since Marlo has no proof that Joe isn't screwing him on the allegedly stolen shipment.

Which, of course, he is

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Yeah I think it's important to acknowledge that Joe hosed up by assuming he was irreplaceable as the connection between the other kingpins and The Greek, which caused him to let Marlo get closer/better informed than he should have. He was right that The Greek only wanted to deal with him, but he mistook that for being the only person The Greek WOULD deal with. Marlo's method was cutting the Gordian Knot, if Joe is the only person they will deal with, then he kills Joe so they have no choice but to deal with him.

It's kind of interesting to think of it in the same terms as the dockworkers (and labor in general) in that they assume they are appreciated/irreplaceable in a job they dedicate themselves to, but the people who employ them and sell them on their vital importance to the business will replace them in a second as required.

Shut up Meg
Jan 8, 2019

You're safe here.


It irritated me at first cause you could see he was going to get screwed by Marlo a mile away. But I can see the realism in a smart person making a stupid decision.

Plus, he didn't expect to get stabbed in the back by his own nephew, Cheese.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


My connect is your connect. Socialism in the streets.

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011


Thanks guys, I forgot a few things - the robbery, Marlo having Joe killed to get the connect, and Cheese's betrayal. Makes more sense with that info.

The Greek and Spiros are my favourite, the true guys pulling the strings and likely making the most profit and no one in Baltimore PD has a clue who or where they are. S2 was cool for showing the more broad-reaching supply chain of drugs and prostitution.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

StashAugustine posted:

Which, of course, he is

I love the little details like this in the Wire too. They don't hit you over the head with them. Unless you're paying attention you don't realize on your first watch that Omar asks Joe for 20 on the dollar for the heroin and then when Joe is selling the dealers the shipment that Omar sold to him he charges the dealers 30 on the dollar for it, thus recouping some expenses.

Joe owns.

It's important to note too he doesn't lose to Marlo because he's treating him like a son or with kindness. He's 100% trying to use Marlo as basically his own personal muscle. But using someone as ambitious and cold blooded as Marlo was a danger Joe didn't properly respect.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Ginette Reno posted:

I love the little details like this in the Wire too. They don't hit you over the head with them. Unless you're paying attention you don't realize on your first watch that Omar asks Joe for 20 on the dollar for the heroin and then when Joe is selling the dealers the shipment that Omar sold to him he charges the dealers 30 on the dollar for it, thus recouping some expenses.

Joe owns.

It's important to note too he doesn't lose to Marlo because he's treating him like a son or with kindness. He's 100% trying to use Marlo as basically his own personal muscle. But using someone as ambitious and cold blooded as Marlo was a danger Joe didn't properly respect.

Yeah I was gonna say, I loved that little detail of joe quietly pulling one over on the coop. They don’t draw attention to it, he just can’t help himself so he goes for it, even though he’s in a ridiculously precarious position.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




E: dbl post

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


Ainsley McTree posted:

Yeah I was gonna say, I loved that little detail of joe quietly pulling one over on the coop. They don’t draw attention to it, he just can’t help himself so he goes for it, even though he’s in a ridiculously precarious position.

Buy for a dollar, sell for two.

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


Ginette Reno posted:

I'm not 100% thrilled with that whole storyline to be honest. It makes sense but it doesn't feel completely earned. I feel like Joe should see through what Marlo is trying to do and indeed Slim even warns Joe to be wary of Marlo's intentions. Joe hand waves that off by saying the Greeks are too cautious to meet with anyone but him but he should realize more than anyone how the Greeks will keep business going at the cost of anyone - even him.

Personally it always bothered me that the Greeks didn't either tip off Joe that Marlo was getting on them.

I mean, Marlo is clearly trouble for them. Clearly impetuous and takes crazy risks. Worst case they might figure someone sniffing around them that hard might be a cop. And yet they go on with him for some half-baked reason. Makes no sense.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


TV criminals have to be dumb so the TV police can look smart.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



The Greek makes the same mistake with Frank, telling him to take the money they give him and splurge on himself (something The Greek himself would never do), which is exactly the wrong thing to say since Frank is on a crusade and believes his cause is just in spite of the horrible poo poo he has had to face up being complicit in. He assumes (correctly in most cases) that criminals are in it to make money first and foremost, whereas for Marlo the money itself was at best secondary and usually tertiary to his actual concern which was prestige/power.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

twerking on the railroad posted:

Personally it always bothered me that the Greeks didn't either tip off Joe that Marlo was getting on them.

I mean, Marlo is clearly trouble for them. Clearly impetuous and takes crazy risks. Worst case they might figure someone sniffing around them that hard might be a cop. And yet they go on with him for some half-baked reason. Makes no sense.

Well they didn't exactly give Marlo an endorsement. Their stance was to work with Joe but that if Joe was out of the picture they'd begrudgingly go along with Marlo. I can understand them not tipping off Joe because they want to be as removed as possible from the actual drug trade. They're a wholesaler, and if they start taking sides they're liable to get dragged into the conflicts that happen which isn't something they want.


Jerusalem posted:

The Greek makes the same mistake with Frank, telling him to take the money they give him and splurge on himself (something The Greek himself would never do), which is exactly the wrong thing to say since Frank is on a crusade and believes his cause is just in spite of the horrible poo poo he has had to face up being complicit in. He assumes (correctly in most cases) that criminals are in it to make money first and foremost, whereas for Marlo the money itself was at best secondary and usually tertiary to his actual concern which was prestige/power.

I feel like Avon was the only one who really understood Marlo. Businessmen like Stringer and Joe couldn't grasp what Marlo was really after, and they thought they could use him for their own ends.

They didn't realize that Marlo was actually every bit as cunning and intelligent as them, but was just utilizing that intelligence towards a different goal.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Yea I think you have to remember that after the Frank Sobotka thing, the Greek was totally willing to just pull up stakes and completely back off for a period of time. The Baltimore drug trade is a nice source of income for them, but it's not nearly important enough for them to get involved in bullshit that could bring police attention onto them.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Ginette Reno posted:


They didn't realize that Marlo was actually every bit as cunning and intelligent as them, but was just utilizing that intelligence towards a different goal.

Marlo wasn't that smart. He was incredibly ruthless and knew the game like the back of his hand, but that's the only area he knows. When it comes to making long term plans, he usually relies on Chris or other advisors, although they are careful to defer to him as the unquestioned leader. There are also scenes like his flight to the Caribbean to check on his money, when he asks Joe for "clean money" to give to the Greeks, or when he is unable to keep up with Avon when they meet in prison.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



exmachina posted:

Buy for a dollar, sell for two.

I love Prop Joe's line read here. The way he says "sell for tuwo" gets me every time.

empty baggie
Oct 22, 2003



That’s that bollymore accent.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


Shut up Meg posted:

It irritated me at first cause you could see he was going to get screwed by Marlo a mile away. But I can see the realism in a smart person making a stupid decision.

Plus, he didn't expect to get stabbed in the back by his own nephew, Cheese.

I enjoyed Cheese's actor bemoaning the public response to his death. "Snoop gets killed and everyone's all 'man, that sucks, I liked her'. Then I get it and the entire fanbase says I deserved it, good riddance."

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011


Haha that's a funny quote. Why would anyone like Snoop or be upset at her death? At least we got some back story as to why Chris Partlow was so hosed up.

If you didn't know, Cheese is played by Method Man from Wu Tang Clan.

The casting in this show was really excellent. In particular the child actors were amazing.

The only main performance I was a bit dissapointed by was Marlo. He wasn't very expressive. Perhaps a purposeful choice to show his lack of empathy or emotion but it made for less interesting TV than Avon, Stringer, and Prop Joe.

denzelcurrypower fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 4, 2019

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Ornithology posted:

Why would anyone like Snoop or be upset at her death?

She's hard in a way many people are not used to seeing portrayed, especially at the time.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Snoop was ruthless and efficient, a real soldier, just like Bodie and Weebay. Not only that, but the actress who played her was really about that life, which gave her character even more credibility. Her last scene with Michael is proof that she can hold her own in the acting game. She's one of the highlights of the entire series.

Lemon
May 22, 2003



Cheese never bought a nail gun. A scene like that goes a long way for a character.

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


I mean, I wonder if people in the game ever think about how they would like to go, if the time came

Shut up Meg
Jan 8, 2019

You're safe here.


Addamere posted:

She's hard in a way many people are not used to seeing portrayed, especially at the time.

ruddiger posted:

Snoop was ruthless and efficient, a real soldier, just like Bodie and Weebay.

I think that at a superficial level, you could regard her as a stone-cold killer with complete loyalty to her boss.

Of course, the reality was that she was a psychopath who killed children on the whims of a greedy drug dealer, including a young boy she mentored. But hey, some people still regard Scarface as an aspirational story.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Even if she's definitely not aspirational she was fun to watch, while Cheese is just a dumbass

Nude Hoxha Cameo
Sep 29, 2007






“He have a last name?”
“Just Omar, he don’t need no last name.”

e: And an entire scene where the dialogue consists solely of “gently caress”.

Nude Hoxha Cameo fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jul 4, 2019

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.




Lemon posted:

Cheese never bought a nail gun. A scene like that goes a long way for a character.

That's one of the best scenes in the entire series.

Ornithology posted:

Haha that's a funny quote. Why would anyone like Snoop or be upset at her death?

I mean I loving love the emperor from Star Wars.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:

“He have a last name?”
“Just Omar, he don’t need no last name.”

e: And an entire scene where the dialogue consists solely of “gently caress”.

There was also “gently caress me” and “motherfucker”.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005

Success!





Speaking of Cheese, was there any mention if/how he was related to Randy?

I know they had the same last name, but I'm starting S4 rewatch, and either it's never mentioned/just implied or I missed it.

Strawman
Feb 9, 2008

Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.



LadyPictureShow posted:

Speaking of Cheese, was there any mention if/how he was related to Randy?

I know they had the same last name, but I'm starting S4 rewatch, and either it's never mentioned/just implied or I missed it.

Randy is cheese's kid. The writers have mentioned it but it didn't come up in the show.

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 3361 days!


Hair Elf

LadyPictureShow posted:

Speaking of Cheese, was there any mention if/how he was related to Randy?

I know they had the same last name, but I'm starting S4 rewatch, and either it's never mentioned/just implied or I missed it.

There was a weird little retcon where Cheese was originally named Flagstaff in season 2 but became Wagstaff in the remainder of the show.

https://thewirehbotv.fandom.com/wiki/Cheese_Wagstaff

Also - lollin:

The Wire HBO TV Wiki posted:

"When it was my uncle, I was with my uncle, when it was Marlo I was with him but now Ni (BANG)"
―Cheese Wagstaff

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

Method Man does such a good job with Cheese. One of my favorite performances on a show that has a lot of great ones.

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zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




The timing of that delivery after his scene in the finale is funny as hell.

THIS SENTIMENTAL MOTHERFUCKER JUST COST US MONEY.

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