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Boywhiz88 posted:Also, I’ve mentioned it before but season 5 (in 2007/8) brings up fentanyl. Almost 100% sure of that. Just one of those tiny mentions that just portends something greater. I caught that too this time around. And it was in the context of causing many more deaths. zenguitarman posted:I just finished Generation Kill not that long ago and James Ransone is incredible in it Holds up on a rewatch!
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May 12, 2020 03:28
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kaworu posted:
you're looking at it the wrong way, cuz. if you were like me, and hopelessly naive when you first watched through the series, this show was your first really clear look at how the sausage gets made. you were still hopelessly naive after you finished the show, but there were some things in you that were different afterward. some things that grew into greater curiosities to investigate how certain aspects of society really play out. you look back and feel embarrassment now at how little you understood when you first watched, but it's in part because you watched that you even have the insight necessary to make that observation now. all the pieces matter
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May 12, 2020 03:44
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James Ransone is a treasure. And so are all of you. 
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May 12, 2020 03:50
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Ziggy is also on Bosch season 2. Actually Dozerman is part of his crew there too.
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May 12, 2020 04:09
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Ginette Reno posted:Did you forget Marlo Stanfield exists quote:murdered his girlfriends, murdered kids, tortured and murdered people who stole from him. Murdered the working man for being an honest witness
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May 12, 2020 04:44
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Marlo murdered a working man for wanting it one way, but it was the other way
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May 12, 2020 05:00
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Boywhiz88 posted:5. Still need to watch Simon’s new one and The Deuce. But The Wire is just a siren song. The Deuce is very good, and has some incredible acting from Emily Meade and Maggie Gyllenhaal (along with David Simon's attention to detail), but its not as narratively tight as The Wire. Havent caught The Plot Against America yet though.
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May 12, 2020 05:51
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Another good Ziggy show worth checking out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Winter_Sun_(American_TV_series)
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May 12, 2020 06:15
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Yeah, Avon would murder a man for testifying, Marlo would do it because he thought he might have given him a funny look.
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May 12, 2020 09:27
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i heard marlo sucks dick
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May 12, 2020 10:41
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https://twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1259474233974980609
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May 12, 2020 11:07
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Dumb Lowtax posted:i heard marlo sucks dick Heard Marlo won't come to the streets neither
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May 12, 2020 11:30
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Mr. Prokosch posted:Yeah, Avon would murder a man for testifying, Marlo would do it because he thought he might have given him a funny look. Avon would kill a man because he though he might have been given him a funny look and then tried to justify it.
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May 12, 2020 11:37
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Syrian Lannister posted:Heard Marlo won't come to the streets neither The simple ease with which Omar figures out exactly how to hurt Marlo really is amazing. The fact that Marlo never knew it was happening and his realization that nobody will ever believe that once he finds out really is just an absolutely incredible scene.
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May 12, 2020 15:13
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Jerusalem posted:The simple ease with which Omar figures out exactly how to hurt Marlo really is amazing. The fact that Marlo never knew it was happening and his realization that nobody will ever believe that once he finds out really is just an absolutely incredible scene. Truly, that whole scene is great. The narrowing down to who it could be, and Monk being very gun shy about sharing details and Chris getting onto him and shutting him up and downplaying it. And has one of my favorite lines; “My name is my name.”
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May 13, 2020 05:47
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I was so puzzled until I realized that I still need to see the final three episodes
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May 13, 2020 05:55
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Just made a connection that didn’t come up in Jerusalem’s S3, E12 recap. As Rawls is dragging out the poo poo talk to Bunny during the final COMSTAT, Colvin barks back “Get on with it, motherfucker.” That was noted in the recap, however, it’s the same last words as Stringer Bell. I mean, we already knew but that really puts the cap on the “firing squad” image that COMSTAT provides throughout the season. There’s a non-zero chance I made that connection in previous rewatches but I love I can catch new stuff 12+ years after seeing that season for the first time.
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May 14, 2020 10:34
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Boywhiz88 posted:Just made a connection that didn’t come up in Jerusalem’s S3, E12 recap.
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May 14, 2020 10:39
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Re-watching this show at age 34 really is a radically different experience than watching it for the first time at age 20 in 2006, or rewatching it 4 years later at 24 in 2010 after the recession and the spectacular collapse of the multi-national criminal ponzi scheme referred to as "Keynesian economics" I thought that I'd reached a somewhat more enlightened place and I understood the show much more fully. Of course, that was useful bullshit, and now... well... now I'm just very aware that I will always be ignorant and always have more to learn, more to glean, more to understand. It's inspiring that I always find more and more subtleties in great pieces of art like this.
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May 14, 2020 23:51
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kaworu posted:Re-watching this show at age 34 really is a radically different experience than watching it for the first time at age 20 in 2006, or rewatching it 4 years later at 24 in 2010 after the recession and the spectacular collapse of the multi-national criminal ponzi scheme referred to as "Keynesian economics" I thought that I'd reached a somewhat more enlightened place and I understood the show much more fully. Of course, that was useful bullshit, and now... well... now I'm just very aware that I will always be ignorant and always have more to learn, more to glean, more to understand. It's inspiring that I always find more and more subtleties in great pieces of art like this. me at 18: i have achieved full awareness me at 19: oh, NOW I've achieved full awareness 20-23: crippling depression me at 24: sigh. okay. I'm fully aware now. narrator: no he wasn't
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May 15, 2020 05:12
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I think the majority of goons itt understand the wire better than David Simon at this point.
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May 15, 2020 08:36
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Stairmaster posted:I think the majority of goons itt understand the wire better than David Simon at this point. yeah i was amazed to hear David Simon is more or less a neolib who believes all capitalism needs is more regulation. bruh, did you watch your magnum opus. like he gives talks all the time about tricky dick Nixon and ronald reagan and how trivially easy it was for them to not only dismantle new deal policies, but then make that platform politically repulsive for a generation.
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May 15, 2020 23:34
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If your takeaway from the wire was “only the current manifestation of institutions are corrupt, we just need different institutions” then it’s not David simon who wasn’t paying attention Simon doesn’t believe that noble goals are enough to overcome the resistance to change from the status quo, the difficulties that come around when you try to actually implement change, and the corruption/dilution of ideals that comes with attaining power (see: hamsterdam, stringer’s push for gentrifying the drug trade, the special education classes in season 4, and basically everything carcetti promised w/r/t both the police and the schools) The through line of the entire series (and it’s explicitly stated in the book of the corner) is that achieving any lasting change requires both personal, human care (eg kima, Steve Earle for bubbles, bunny Colvin for namond, curry for his boys, prez for his kids) AND extremely lucky circumstances. So yeah him not being in favour of revolutionary change doesn’t conflict at all with the wire.
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May 16, 2020 00:05
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The show explores revolutionary change (hamsterdam) but what it does not explore is total self-collapse of the existing structures, and what comes next
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May 16, 2020 00:10
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Dumb Lowtax posted:The show explores revolutionary change (hamsterdam) but what it does not explore is total self-collapse of the existing structures, and what comes next Yup totally. Simon is way more interested in talking about how things are hosed than he is in talking about how to fix it. He’s more of a reporter than a visionary, which is great because visionaries are generally big dumb idiots.
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May 16, 2020 00:18
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awesmoe posted:If your takeaway from the wire was “only the current manifestation of institutions are corrupt, we just need different institutions” then it’s not David simon who wasn’t paying attention i agree with pretty much everything you said, including that simon's general outlook appears to be that the only answer to society's ills is real, human compassion. i still think it's reasonable to feel a little incredulous/surprise that someone who made the wire could believe "capitalism, with more regulations" would provide that.
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May 16, 2020 00:44
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God Hole posted:i agree with pretty much everything you said, including that simon's general outlook appears to be that the only answer to society's ills is real, human compassion. I think the argument is that it’s the system least likely to gently caress everything up and easiest to keep in check. Minimising the chance of dystopia, not maximising the chance of utopia E: this is my attempting to reconstruct simons point based on my recollections of his work, rather than me arguing the point myself
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May 16, 2020 00:54
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Again, the guy had at least a whole season on the failures of meritocracy and focus-grouped academic approaches to fixing institutions, and the destructive effects of vested interest in individual leaders who have a history of pragmatism. And then he went and endorsed Elizabeth Warren in real life
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May 16, 2020 00:55
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replace james franco? lol uhhh gently caress off
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May 16, 2020 01:19
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I think a key concept on the wire is a revolution doesn't really change things. Hamsterdam and legalizing drugs just shuffled where the bodies were buried in the end.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 04:30 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 04:27
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Jack2142 posted:I think a key concept on the wire is a revolution doesn't really change things. Hamsterdam and legalizing drugs just shuffled where the bodies were buried in the end. hamsterdam isn’t a revolution. at best it’s a Limited Hangout, implemented by a jaded yet still firmly establishment figure who’s too old for this poo poo and not really interested in sweeping systemic reform. What bunny IS interested in is solving one or two social ills with an eclectic patchwork of abolitionist, socialist, anarchist, and utilitarian theories lazily thrown together (the urban police major needed to be reminded of communicable diseases?) another lesson that could be drawn from this, with an eye toward the fact that not even the authority of the commanding officers within the department was legitimately challenged much less that of the overarching economic system that is directly antagonistic in nature to the ideals represented by the existence of hamsterdam, is that siloed and poorly planned/coordinated social reforms will only succeed in changing where the bodies are buried.
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May 16, 2020 06:18
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God Hole posted:not even the authority of the commanding officers within the department was legitimately challenged much less that of the overarching economic system that is directly antagonistic in nature to the ideals Good point, it may have been praxis, but it was NOT revolution... in any sense that threatened the actual problem people (Burrell, Rawls, the mayor, all those connected) And even as just Praxis it may not have been a failure! Did it save more lives than it cost? Who knows if the healthcare workers present were able to offset some harm that might have otherwise happened behind closed doors. And for a time, the city's poor got to breathe without police interruption or territory based violence, which tips the equation even farther.
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May 16, 2020 07:01
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Hamsterdam was very likely a net good while not disrupting any of the actual causes of the suffering it alleviates. So sure, we should support things such as that because it materially helps people and reduces suffering. But it doesn't actually solve anything. Kind of like capitalism with better regulations.
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May 16, 2020 11:01
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Orange Devil posted:Hamsterdam was very likely a net good while not disrupting any of the actual causes of the suffering it alleviates. another consideration should be “localized & temporary net good” vs “universal permanent net good” hamsterdam may seem far fetched on its face to the layman but bored police commanders have a long, storied history of accidentally discovering revolutionary social change while loving around with departmental procedures, for instance what would happen if we just stopped patrolling lol-OH gently caress CRIME IS GOING DOWN ABORT ABORT GET THE CARS BACK ON THE ROAD every single police officer in the US in the past 50 years has studied the Kansas City preventative patrol experiment, despite its results being clearly abolitionist on its face! you better believe that in the world of the wire, the hamsterdam case is going right in every subsequent criminal justice textbook that goes to print. now why would that be? why would the establishment be okay with teaching their entire workforce about social experiments that are essentially existential threats to their authority? because it matters who revolutionary tactics come from. when they teach officers about the Kansas City experiment, it’s an inoculation. if anything similar to hamsterdam (anywhere now, not just in Baltimore) were to naturally manifest among the civilian population later on or a progressive officer starts getting some funny ideas, other officers will instinctively recognize it for what it is and shut it the gently caress down either with some good old fashioned anti-intellectualist rhetoric - and if that doesn’t work - brutal crackdowns and/or reassignment to the pawn shop unit. that’s not to say the bunny’s of the world shouldn’t try; he has obvious positive effects on people around him, and his example could potentially inspire future revolutionaries, but as we can see the population of Baltimore has been successfully suppressed for a long time. they have little to no class consciousness or institutional memory outside of a few pockets. in all likelihood, bunny made revolutionary change less possible God Hole fucked around with this message at 14:24 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 13:49
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God Hole posted:i agree with pretty much everything you said, including that simon's general outlook appears to be that the only answer to society's ills is real, human compassion.
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May 16, 2020 14:54
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God Hole posted:another consideration should be “localized & temporary net good” vs “universal permanent net good” Reminds me of Top Gear's ongoing thing about speed cameras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADj_lnKVRhE (Lol at the EU bit at the end, welp)
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May 16, 2020 15:59
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when I was in Europe I was struck by how luxuriously long yellow traffic lights were. you had plenty of time to analyze which is more feasible: stopping or rolling through. Studies tell us that there is a direct correlation between how short the yellow light is, and the amount of fatalities that occur at that intersection. yet the yellow lights in the US get shorter and shorter, more and more people get t-boned and die, but those unmanned traffic cameras are rolling in the dough baby!!!
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May 16, 2020 17:37
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God Hole posted:replace james franco? lol uhhh gently caress off After seeing that pic of McNulty’s actor mustachioed up, I think he would’ve done a way better job playing Franco’s role in The Deuce.
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May 16, 2020 18:35
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God Hole posted:another consideration should be “localized & temporary net good” vs “universal permanent net good” I think that is an interesting take, thanks for sharing. I know to a certain extent in some ways Seattle has effectively done the Hamsterdam in regards to our homeless population, I am not sure if it is really improving their situation however. Certainly has made a lot of people mad and the police very angry, which feeds into what you are saying on it undermining their authority and thus must be opposed.
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May 16, 2020 21:30
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Hamsterdam was just another form of juking the stats
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