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Ainsley McTree posted:I think my reaction to season 2 was the typical one; I didn't like it at first because after S1 I finally thought I got a sense of what this show was all about and then they go and change it up on me. But then once you finish the series and really understand what the show was about, you realize that actually season 2 is quite excellent, it's just that initial "wait who are these people" shock that kind of drags it down a little. Ziggy is Namond + a few turns around the cycles of systemic oppression that the show serves to highlight, imo. Not to detract from what you said, He's a product of his environment but also his own machinations within it, which as per the key themes of the show is more or less dictated to him by the systems & institutions and rampant inequality in his environment. I think Season 2 is almost a textbook example of how to set up a TV show so that Season 1 introduces the world and themes, S2 codifies them into something you can branch into multiple directions from. To quote I think a variety fair interview, and also to really butcher a clay davis quote, "The first season crawls, the second season walks, so the latter seasons can run". A lot of the blowback on S2 at the time was due to the perceived "whitewashing" of the show. Without commenting on the racial dynamics of HBO Programming too much, there's some validity to it, but it wasn't done for ratings purposes, it was what the story needed (in hindsight) to really fly. You should watch Bosch, it's not very good but it does prove that Jamie Hector can show a lil' somethin somethin when he wants to
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Jul 1, 2020 18:27
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Rollie Fingers posted:Yeah I'm surprised to read Season 2 seems to have a mixed reaction. I thought the season was exceptional and some of the hardest hitting TV I've watched. I don't think centrists are incapable of understanding that capitalism causes a lot of suffering. The problem is they think it can be reformed. Well actually David Simon doesn't even necessarily think capitalism can be reformed. He of all people knows how hard that would be. But he has this idealized vision of a society where capitalism and socialism coexist and create a sort of free thinking, free enterprise society where anyone succeed. Thing is, I'm not sure any society that utilizes capitalism to any degree could ever exist like that.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:14
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't think centrists are incapable of understanding that capitalism causes a lot of suffering. The problem is they think it can be reformed. Which leads to the question of "How can it be reformed" and "why should it be?", and if the answer to the latter isn't "because this system promotes wealth inequality and suffering" then perhaps the centrists aren't incapable of understanding that but choose not to. Anyway, that's just me being a pedantic clown, you're pretty accurate to say all that. Currently up to Season 4 Episode 5 on my rewatch, I forgot just how goddamn good S3&4 are..... S4 having the best rendition of the theme tune (DoMaJe's version)
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Jul 3, 2020 15:23
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I mean Simon was championing police reform on twitter so whatever he may have put on the show when push comes to shove he ultimately went to the centralist position
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Jul 4, 2020 11:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean Simon was championing police reform on twitter so whatever he may have put on the show when push comes to shove he ultimately went to the centralist position Without knowing what his proposed reforms were I can tell you that from where I & any reasonable person sits, "police reform" =/= centrism Centrism, especially in america these days, is just glorified knee-bending to the right. "Centrists" don't want to reform the police, Centrists say "blue lives matter" and "all lives matter", same as the Klan do. I don't see someone who actually wants to reform the police - clearly do away with the systemic culture of "juking the stats" and low-quality no-money-chasing police work - as being a centrist unless we're using words like centrist to play semantic tricks to get people to dismiss other people by putting them in a preconceived box they don't actually fit into in reality. I don't see how attempting to fix the root causes of systemic inequality are centrist, seems like ignoring them to keep the status quo going actually fits the real definition of centrism though, and that's the opposite of what Simon advocates sooooo?
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Jul 4, 2020 12:33
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Reforming by definition is centralist as reform is compromise as it goes by the theory that the system in itself just needs some tweaking. Also what your describing is centralism.txt. Mainly focusing on stuff that doesn’t really matter and ignoring the real problems. Like juking stats is dumb but not really that important a issue CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 13:03
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Though I should say that the wire recognizes some problems exists the ones it focuses on heavily favors the wants and fears of the suburbs and/or middle class types who favor LAW AND ORDER so I guess his views online match the show
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Jul 4, 2020 13:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:Reforming by definition is centralist as reform is compromise as it goes by the theory that the system in itself just needs some tweaking. Are you kidding? That's the opposite of centrism. The real problem with "juking the stats" is the culture of pass the buck responsibility, "us v them" policing and systems and institutions inforcing the institutional inequality that got those in power to their positions. Dealing with that is the specific opposite of focusing on "stuff that doesn't really matter and ignoring the real problems". PS: it's not dumb it's the card that the rest of the house of cards the, in this example, baltimore police system - representing all similar-level policing in america - is built on. To quote rawls, they live or die by the stats. The numbers get juked, majors become colonels, and mayors become governors. I fail to see how any description of this could possibly be "ignoring the real problems", it's directly highlighting and calling them out. Not to be rude right, but you've got ben shapiro as a profile pic, and are peddling some shapiro-esque hot takes so outta left field that i'm actually a little stunned you typed them out, I'm starting to think im being trolled. Ninja edit that by the time i'm done typing will probably be a regular one: The Wire also goes to painstaking lengths to show that the *actual* centrist answer to these problems is ineffective, which is usually "if a system or institution is broken or corrupt the best way to fix it would be to rise up from the inside, playing their game til you have the power to fix it" which as reality shows, and The Wire demonstrates, results in shades of gray morality where the person with good intentions often ends up perpetuating the exact systematic injustice, neglicence or corruption that motivated them to action in the first place RYYSZLA fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 16:39
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"They're reforming the liquor board?" "Yeah, with a hand grenade."
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Jul 4, 2020 19:08
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Decriminalizing a bunch of drugs and vastly scaling back the carceral state might be centrist but it would still be good if it happened, as compared to it not happening.
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Jul 4, 2020 19:19
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Season 4, ep 5, Namond tells Snoop her sister is in his class. Did they ever say who her sister was?
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Jul 17, 2020 22:41
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Probably in the special class. Also is it played by Pearson's actual sister? Wouldn't surprise me in this show
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Jul 18, 2020 01:22
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Five was when they were still picking students for the class. The scene was when Chris and Snoop talk with Michael near the hangout.
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Jul 18, 2020 01:29
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There's a girl who looks a lot like Snoop in Prez's math class. So much so that I assumed it was her real life sister. Same braids and everything. But I googled it and found this quote from Simon... http://www.borderline-productions.com/TheWireHBO/exclusive4-9.html "Snoop's sister may or may not be in Namond's class. The reason that Namond uttered that line about her sister being in class, using Snoop's name, as well as the previous line of "Sure, Chris, we'll bump" was to affirm to the gangsters that they were known to all the boys, thereby discouraging them from doing anything to Michael. In leaving Michael, Namond was calling out Chris and Snoop and saying: "If something bad happens to Mike, we know you." It's for that reason that Michael, on rejoining Namond later, thanks him: "Good looking out."" Also think about how hosed up Snoop's home life must have been if she thinks Mike's family looks like the Huxtables to her. 
deoju fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 02:19
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Either that or Snoop knew something about Cosby long before we did...
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Jul 18, 2020 11:33
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I recently found out that Snoop did a topless scene in a 2015 movie. Enjoy.
escape artist fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 17:44
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escape artist posted:I recently found out that Snoop did a topless scene in a 2015 movie. Enjoy. But was the movie any good and is it available on Amazon prime? Asking for a friend
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Jul 18, 2020 19:11
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Just read this and thought of the showReinventing Collapse by Dmitry Orlov posted:The purpose of all our awful institutions is to institutionalize you
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Aug 5, 2020 12:52
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Thread is pretty much dead but I stumbled on a really good Wire podcast if anyone's interested https://www.theringer.com/way-down-in-the-hole
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Aug 18, 2020 21:53
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Happy Thread posted:Yo everyone: Jeez, that's a blast from the past! Are his old threads still available?
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Aug 18, 2020 23:57
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BiggerBoat posted:Thread is pretty much dead but I stumbled on a really good Wire podcast if anyone's interested Oh sweet, from the episode descriptions this sounds great.
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Aug 19, 2020 00:16
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Jerusalem posted:Oh sweet, from the episode descriptions this sounds great. They're really good and the YouTube version has clips/video of the show playing in certain spots. The hosts genuinely get the show and often point out stuff I hadn't thought of or noticed
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Aug 19, 2020 11:50
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I love their "We love this show... but...." segments. The podcast is really good so far, thanks for bringing it to light.
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Aug 19, 2020 12:03
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BiggerBoat posted:Thread is pretty much dead but I stumbled on a really good Wire podcast if anyone's interested Jerusalem posted:I love their "We love this show... but...." segments. The podcast is really good so far, thanks for bringing it to light. Thanks for bringing this up and praising it! I'd seen it around, but I thought I'd had my fill of "podcast recapping media with episodes longer than the subject" so I passed on it. And I was wrong.
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Aug 19, 2020 19:27
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My own "I love this show but" thing is: Brother Mouzone I think the only reason he works is in context to where his laid back bad assery finds a space to operate and he's just Not Quite Like Everyone Else. That 22 showdown with Omar standoff where they chill and have a lecturing conversation that everyone seems to love or that speech about having one in the chamber when the second bullet is a custom made hollow point blah blah blah felt a little unrealistic. His whole demeanor and character was one of the few things in the show that rang a little false for me but was still cool enough to let slide. Some of Omar's poo poo brushed up against the same levels of realism for me but the show never broke the "oh the come the gently caress on" barrier and it's a credit to the writers and the actors really. Glad you guys like the podacst. Reminds me of just how RICH this show is with its depth and its writing. Hard pressed to think of a series with this much thought and real depth behind it that opens itself up for so many re-watches and analysis. I love how it assumes the intelligence of its audience and never talks down to us.
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Aug 20, 2020 00:26
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Holy poo poo, I got up to The Buys in that podcast series and one of the hosts criticizing the lack of stagecraft at the strip club is loving hilarious. I am so glad I was made aware of this podcast 
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Aug 20, 2020 05:41
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BiggerBoat posted:My own "I love this show but" thing is: in terms of gangsters, brother mouzone existing in the wire's baltimore is a bit like seeing a wooly mammoth walking around and grazing as if the previous 4000 years of history hadn't happened. guys like him definitely existed and commanded the kind of clout you see exemplified by avon's deference to him, but not since like the 60's. there's no way brother mouzone could walk around scolding everybody like that out in the open without catching a bullet in the modern context. the wire takes place in the 00's, but it's important to remember that simon was an embedded journalist with the BPD in the 80's/90's, and the street changes fast. so when you're watching the wire, you're getting a delayed snapshot of up to 10+ years with a few modern trappings stapled on top.
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Aug 20, 2020 18:06
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God Hole posted:in terms of gangsters, brother mouzone existing in the wire's baltimore is a bit like seeing a wooly mammoth walking around and grazing as if the previous 4000 years of history hadn't happened. guys like him definitely existed and commanded the kind of clout you see exemplified by avon's deference to him, but not since like the 60's. there's no way brother mouzone could walk around scolding everybody like that out in the open without catching a bullet in the modern context. Yeah I get all that. Just the whole "they chill...they have a clever conversation...talk about bullets" and all that occasionally felt a little forced but the scenes still came off cool and somehow the show pulled it off. I even like the character but every once in a while BM and Omar brushed up a little too close being Super Cool and Badass that flew in the face of realism. I Like This Show But...and all that.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:54
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I'll probably get flack for this... but my 'I Love This Show... But' moments are whenever Chris and Snoop show up. On my second viewing of the show they're the two characters that irk me the most about the Stanfield organisation and kind of snap me out of The Wire's universe. It's less about the actors and more about how they're written. Brother Mouzone, for me, fitted in with the charismatic, larger-than-life characters that are in abundance in seasons 1-3. I don't necessarily view The Wire as being ultra-realistic and I found the Brother Mouzone character logically consistent within the show's universe and enjoyed his flowery verbal exchanges with Omar. The focus on journalism in season five felt parachronistic even for 2008. Journalism had pretty much died after the start of the Iraq War and reserving so much of the season to the decaying morals in journalism and the crusader trying to save it felt out-of-date even for 2008.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:49
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I'm early into season 2 (Hot Shots) of The Ringer's Wire podcast and the ongoing war between the hosts over whether Stringer is a fuckboy or not is legitimately great - one of the hosts actually went back and reviewed the stock performance of Nokia over the last 17 years just to argue that Stringer's market saturation line about cellphones wasn't a dumb take I can't recommend it enough to anybody who hasn't jumped onboard.
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Aug 30, 2020 02:20
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Jerusalem posted:I'm early into season 2 (Hot Shots) of The Ringer's Wire podcast and the ongoing war between the hosts over whether Stringer is a fuckboy or not is legitimately great - one of the hosts actually went back and reviewed the stock performance of Nokia over the last 17 years just to argue that Stringer's market saturation line about cellphones wasn't a dumb take "Stringer Bell: Fuckboy" is definitely my favorite segment. The segment I don't get is "who won this episode?". Did they get that from another tv recap podcast or something? It doesn't make any sense. Sometimes they make it work anyway, but that's because they're good hosts.
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Sep 1, 2020 16:37
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pokeyman posted:"Stringer Bell: Fuckboy" is definitely my favorite segment. I think it's just a way of reviewing "who had the biggest moment/best lines/greatest impact" and using at as a jumping off point to generate more episode discussion that cover things they may have glossed over. Like a recap. I never took at as "who WON" in terms of "who best furthered their own aims, goals and ambitions" so much as maybe who was the most right/correct or made the proper decisions but, overall, I take it mainly as "which actor owned the gently caress out of their scenes". Where does everyone come out on the Stringer "gently caress Boy" vs. Avon vs. Marlo vs. Prop Joe as far as who is right most often and makes the smartest calls? I'd say Stringer is right as much as he's wrong ("you're taking notes on motherfucking criminal conspiracy?!?"), even if his decision making is sometimes misguided or naive. I GET why he was trying to do what he did and he made a TON of smart/wise decisions. I think Prop Joe was the smartest and most diplomatic out of all of them; All about business, negotiation, respect, keeping the peace and, most important, loving laying LOW. Of course, he got got at the end because Marlo is just loving that ruthless and doesn't even really give a gently caress about the money as much as the power. They all had their weaknesses: Marlo: Putting the crown above all else. Power for the sake of power and His Name Avon: Old school street battles and violence that won out over bringing down heat or appearing "weak" Stringer: Thinking he could turn The Towers and The Corners into a legit business run like a real company using real company methods. Except he's not wrong though. The Italian mafia managed this to a certain degree. Prop Joe: Missing the fact that some people are in it more for the crown/power far more than the money.
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Sep 1, 2020 17:50
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Arguably Stringer Bell's biggest mistake was thinking that he could outsmart Clay Davis on his own.
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Sep 1, 2020 18:00
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Alhazred posted:Arguably Stringer Bell's biggest mistake was thinking that he could outsmart Clay Davis on his own. Definitely. He was completely in over his head on that and quite a few other things. Perfect example though. But I get what he was trying to do. To Stringer, as long as the money came in, the product was good and the heat was low, that's all that mattered. Well, that and laundering the money legit which, still, was not a dumb idea. He wanted less street drama over corners, a much lower profile for the business, far less heat, fewer bodies and a basic sense of legitimacy. Seems like a smart enough goal.
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Sep 1, 2020 18:11
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Arguably the only ones that comes out on top are the greeks (if they even are greeks), there's not a single time when the cops are close to shutting down or even interrupting their operations.
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Sep 1, 2020 18:17
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pokeyman posted:
They do that at the end of The Rewatchables podcast that Simmmons hosts on The Ringer. Van has been a co-host a few times so it's probably from that.
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Sep 1, 2020 18:44
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Alhazred posted:Arguably the only ones that comes out on top are the greeks (if they even are greeks), there's not a single time when the cops are close to shutting down or even interrupting their operations. Good call. I guess I inadvertently just grouped all the street level/black characters together and was looking at it like that, which I should know better but didn't. I love that poo poo at the end of season two when they have The Greek dead to rights and just completely ignore/look past him until Nick points him out later when he agrees to flip. I think the only reason S2 catches so much poo poo is part of this. People got invested in the corners, the towers and street dealers without realizing that Simon was telling a story about an entire city. I remember feeling that way initially but warmed up to it as it progressed and now S2 is up there with my favorites.
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Sep 1, 2020 19:14
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I mean I think it’s more the Greeks are kind of boring. They are meant to be in the shadows and mysterious but that means you can’t connect with them. Especially with the contrast with the lively corner boys
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Sep 1, 2020 20:22
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I'm sure it's been said before, but The Greek is less of a man and more a pure embodiment of vicious, impassionate capitalism. Just as Marlo can be read as a distillation of Avon's own cruel street economics, The Greek is every businessman in the show (Bell, the property developer, orlando, etc) but laid utterly bare with notions of cultural pride, obesiance to tradition, and personal insecurity all wiped away. "Business. Always business". Of course he succeeds in the end - within the economic context of all the show's conflict, he may as well be an earthbound avatar of satan
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Sep 1, 2020 20:55
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I hate the Greek so much. Not as a character or a part of the show, just as a person. I hate his weird little face and his weird little expressions and the way he gets away with everything. I hate his twee diner and his sipping. I hate him
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Sep 1, 2020 21:28
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