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God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


for the person who was talkin about the towers, i recommend checking out the pruitt-igoe myth. it's a documentary about a housing project in st. louis, but unfortunately the story of pruitt-igoe is also the story of urban black housing projects in post-war america. you'll have no problem picturing some of the scenery that might have been found in the towers after watching. there's even a sickening publicity stunt demolition!

for those less familiar about the rise of urban crime, degradation, and white flight to the suburbs in the mid-20th century; it's a pretty nice overview of those phenomena and their causes as well.

optional extra credit: show me a hero (also david simon)

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Show Me A Hero devastated me when I realized it was set (and based on true events) in the 1990s and that segregation bullshit was STILL happening.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





God Hole posted:

for the person who was talkin about the towers, i recommend checking out the pruitt-igoe myth. it's a documentary about a housing project in st. louis, but unfortunately the story of pruitt-igoe is also the story of urban black housing projects in post-war america. you'll have no problem picturing some of the scenery that might have been found in the towers after watching. there's even a sickening publicity stunt demolition!

With a haunting Philip Glass score

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


God Hole posted:

for the person who was talkin about the towers, i recommend checking out the pruitt-igoe myth. it's a documentary about a housing project in st. louis, but unfortunately the story of pruitt-igoe is also the story of urban black housing projects in post-war america. you'll have no problem picturing some of the scenery that might have been found in the towers after watching. there's even a sickening publicity stunt demolition!

for those less familiar about the rise of urban crime, degradation, and white flight to the suburbs in the mid-20th century; it's a pretty nice overview of those phenomena and their causes as well.

optional extra credit: show me a hero (also david simon)

Thank you for this recommendation. Here it is streaming free with ads: https://pluto.tv/on-demand/movies/the-pruitt-igoe-myth-1-1

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I promise I'll only do this the once in this thread, but for anybody who liked my Wire write-ups, I'm doing a Mad Men Blindwatch Thread in a similar vein, and it is now up and running.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




When they're making the busts in the out in season 1 and Bodie decks the cop I'm surprised kima comes across to join in beating on him. It struck me as out of character for her to sprint over to do that

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

The more you temper a stick, the stronger it becomes

Fun Shoe

ilmucche posted:

When they're making the busts in the out in season 1 and Bodie decks the cop I'm surprised kima comes across to join in beating on him. It struck me as out of character for her to sprint over to do that

I didn't think it was out of character at all, and it was a good example early on of the Wire subverting expectations. Kima is portrayed early on as one of the more competent cops on the unit, and because she's not a gently caress up when you see her sprinting over towards Bodie you assume she's going over there to break up the fight before someone eats a police brutality charge. And if the Wire were a typical Cop drama, that's exactly what she'd do.

But really, she's as much one of the boys as any of the others, and I think that scene (along with Daniels beating up Bird in the interrogation room) shows that even the better/more decent detectives/bosses are still far from perfect and get caught up in the drug war mentality of us vs them.

Even Bunny who properly critiques the War on Drugs for being the hosed up mess it is doesn't completely extricate himself from that mentality. His whole thing (at least in season three) isn't treating the dealers/addicts as people - it's basically his way of fighting back against what he perceives as flawed methods for dealing with the problem. But his solution still shows how trapped he is in that same us vs theme mentality because he just moves the dealers and addicts off the corners and pushes them off to a place where he hopes they'll be forgotten and the result is a hellhole until he gets guilt tripped into letting the Deacon and his people actually try to help some of the addicts and dealers there.

Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Sep 27, 2020

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

ilmucche posted:

When they're making the busts in the out in season 1 and Bodie decks the cop I'm surprised kima comes across to join in beating on him. It struck me as out of character for her to sprint over to do that

In other shows Kima would be the Good Cop but this show wants to remind you that she’s still a cop.

I love the blocking in that scene, it looks like she’s trying to break up the fight but she just wants to get in.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


The problem is it only really happens in season 1. Maybe I’m forgetting something but it doesn’t come up as often as it should.

Hell season 1 shows a reformer Herc, though that just kind of gets forgotten later

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

What is ‘it,’ beating up black kids? Or Kima being less than morally spotless? She cheats on her girlfriend, she’s not as much of a mess as McNulty but she’s hardly a textbook Good Person.

Now if you want dropped character flaws, I don’t think Daniels’ dirty past (took bribes, maybe?) ever came up again.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




General Battuta posted:

What is ‘it,’ beating up black kids? Or Kima being less than morally spotless? She cheats on her girlfriend, she’s not as much of a mess as McNulty but she’s hardly a textbook Good Person.

Now if you want dropped character flaws, I don’t think Daniels’ dirty past (took bribes, maybe?) ever came up again.

It's only mentioned a handful of times throughout the series but it absolutely comes up and destroys his career at the very end

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005

by Fluffdaddy


Plaster Town Cop

thankfully with Daniels' dirt Nareese Campbell and Burrell kind of forgot about it, Danaerys style, allowing Daniels to go rogue and turn everyone in at the show's finale

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


General Battuta posted:

What is ‘it,’ beating up black kids? Or Kima being less than morally spotless? She cheats on her girlfriend, she’s not as much of a mess as McNulty but she’s hardly a textbook Good Person.

Now if you want dropped character flaws, I don’t think Daniels’ dirty past (took bribes, maybe?) ever came up again.

Police brutality yeah, the point was good cop.

I don’t care all that much about what she does in her personal life. Nothing will overshadow McNulty

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




The hunt (s1e11) is such a good episode.

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

not all who wander are lost


https://twitter.com/IsiahWhitlockJr/status/1313202147186610178?s=20

Ali Alkali
Apr 23, 2008


I think it is correct to say that running to join in on the beating is against Kimas later character development, but as other have said it is obvious that the show makers were making a point by going against expectations. The first season is a huge lot more self conscious than any of the later seasons and there are plenty of other scenes that make a point of being different, like the gently caress word-scene or the wordless torture of Bird in custody by Geggs, Daniels and Landsmann.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




And the scene after Pres blinds the kid, Daniels is clearly disgusted with the three of them, but nonetheless his first instinct is to help them get their lie together so that no cop has to face any consequences.

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


I'm not sure that the the beating does go against Kima's later development.

One thing consistent about Kima is that she is police through and through, to the point that it costs her a relationship because even after getting shot she can't stay away from the job. She followed McNulty's path quite a bit in later seasons, like him she is police at heart and I think pretty much any police character in the show would immediately jump in if one of their partners got punched.

After all, if Kima goes to the party then she is going to dance, so while the beat down itself is obviously the writers making a point and flipping expectations, that is about the show as a whole rather than being out of character for Kima.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cvrs-BCs6o

Probably a little crossover interest itt

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




I finally got around to watching It Chapter 2 and had no idea James Ransone was in it. He's so good, he kind of saves the movie tbh. Him and Bill Hader's chemistry together is really good.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




If weebey ate the charges for all the murders in season 1 why is bird still on the hook for gant? I thought bey explicitly said he did gant, even though the cops didn't believe him. did they manage to scrape that one off bey's record?

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

Weebay already had life, he was just taking bodies to take bodies. Plus if it worked, it would have let Avon keep some trusted hitters on the street.

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

ilmucche posted:

If weebey ate the charges for all the murders in season 1 why is bird still on the hook for gant? I thought bey explicitly said he did gant, even though the cops didn't believe him. did they manage to scrape that one off bey's record?

weebay said that he did it but they didnt believe him, they already had bird for the murder with *cough* an eyeball witness, so there was no actual reason to drop the charges against bird.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




valchek is such an rear end in a top hat over a goddamn mirror. Can't get over how terrible he is

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

My extended family is south Cook County/ Chicago Polish, the similarities between Stan and them hit close to home.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

I've been sidetracked and busy lately and had forgotten about The Ringer podcast so I'm going to repost it and go to bat for it since they're now into season 4, which is my favorite I think.

https://www.theringer.com/way-down-in-the-hole

I don't think I've ever seen such a talented collection of child actors than what we got here, either in a movie or a TV show. Maybe "Stand By Me"? The hosts said the kids introduced here are doing well and still getting steady work but I haven't seen any of them pop up anywhere so I looked them up. Here's an article about them if anyone's interested.

https://www.bustle.com/p/where-are-the-kids-from-the-wire-now-their-lives-have-changed-a-lot-since-the-series-ended-in-2008-16988485

Quite an amazing accomplishment with actors this young to never take me out of the show. Bad acting always fucks with me and is a real pet peeve, especially precocious kid characters or stereotypes, but this group were arguably better than the adult cast in S4. Or at least just as good.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




Butchie's story about his uncle cutting his fingers off is great. I like that omar laughs silently, so butchie can't even tell he's laughing.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Ainsley McTree posted:

It's only mentioned a handful of times throughout the series but it absolutely comes up and destroys his career at the very end

I still get it confused with his dirty past in Bosch.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

The more you temper a stick, the stronger it becomes

Fun Shoe

ilmucche posted:

Butchie's story about his uncle cutting his fingers off is great. I like that omar laughs silently, so butchie can't even tell he's laughing.

Butchie's kind of an interesting character because he's got the whole kindly wise old man thing going on and you could say that makes him a bit boring but then there's the whole thing with him helping to smuggle the drugs in that get inmates killed and the corrupt guard arrested. And ultimately Avon released early. So his hands aren't really clean and that's a pretty nasty thing to do even if he probably feels some pressure to do it based on Avon himself asking.

Lemon
May 22, 2003



ilmucche posted:

valchek is such an rear end in a top hat over a goddamn mirror. Can't get over how terrible he is

Valchek is an absolute all-timer TV show rear end in a top hat, he is outstanding

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Lemon posted:

Valchek is an absolute all-timer TV show rear end in a top hat, he is outstanding

His most sympathetic scene is the scene where he’s coaching herc (a man who’s also horrible) on how to get the most leverage out of blackmailing the mayor. The show never even tries to make him three dimensional and frankly I’m grateful for it, it’s nice to have someone to feel good about hating now and then

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

The more you temper a stick, the stronger it becomes

Fun Shoe

Ainsley McTree posted:

His most sympathetic scene is the scene where he’s coaching herc (a man who’s also horrible) on how to get the most leverage out of blackmailing the mayor. The show never even tries to make him three dimensional and frankly I’m grateful for it, it’s nice to have someone to feel good about hating now and then

He does also say rest in peace or something in Polish after he learns that Frank died.

He's a piece of poo poo but as with pretty much every character on the Wire he's not totally irredeemable.

team overhead smash
Sep 2, 2006

Team-Forest-Tree-Dog:
Smashing your way into our hearts one skylight at a time

Ginette Reno posted:

He does also say rest in peace or something in Polish after he learns that Frank died.

He's a piece of poo poo but as with pretty much every character on the Wire he's not totally irredeemable.

You can see his almost nostalgia over those final photos of the surveillance van.

While his motivations were selfish, he was also right in that the union was flashing too much cash and it was a sign of smuggling.

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world



Fallen Rib

team overhead smash posted:

You can see his almost nostalgia over those final photos of the surveillance van.

While his motivations were selfish, he was also right in that the union was flashing too much cash and it was a sign of smuggling.

True, but he was so focused on pinning something on Frank Sobotka that he couldn't care less about the fact that they came very close to actually landing a really big fish in the Greek.

The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Ainsley McTree posted:

His most sympathetic scene is the scene where he’s coaching herc (a man who’s also horrible) on how to get the most leverage out of blackmailing the mayor. The show never even tries to make him three dimensional and frankly I’m grateful for it, it’s nice to have someone to feel good about hating now and then

It felt like that was the capstone to his career: being considered the go-to for workplace political maneuvering. How did Herc know him again? Was it just his work with Prez?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Carver sends Herc to see Valchek, if I recall correctly.

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

Jerusalem posted:

Carver sends Herc to see Valchek, if I recall correctly.

Correct. Carver was originally in the SE at the beginning of the port case.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Ginette Reno posted:

He does also say rest in peace or something in Polish after he learns that Frank died.

He's a piece of poo poo but as with pretty much every character on the Wire he's not totally irredeemable.

I dunno, I reckon Marlo is pretty irredeemable. I can't remember him doing anything genuinely good or decent.

EDIT - I get that's why you put 'pretty much', though

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016




String throwing avon under the bus and calling it just business, while avon gives up stringer to brother mouzone trying to make it about business then realising it's the game is a heck of a scene. The whole business v game aspect in season 3 is a fantastic story.

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The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Fuckboi Stringer Bell is my favorite podcast segment. Thanks for introducing this to me, thread.

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