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Xiahou Dun posted:My shameful secret is I've never actually finished season 5. I've watched the rest of the show multiple times, but never these last like ~8 episodes that I'm on right now. Season 5 is by far the worst season. It's redeeming qualities are the fall of McNulty and the rise of Bubbles. But we also get to see corruption win out ultimately, the death of Omar and Dookie fall into a terrible life, that wasn't meant for him.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:37
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ShowTime posted:Season 5 is by far the worst season. It's redeeming qualities are the fall of McNulty and the rise of Bubbles. But we also get to see corruption win out ultimately, the death of Omar and Dookie fall into a terrible life, that wasn't meant for him. Well it’s a good thing I don’t care about spoilers.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:39
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Season 5 is fun, more satirical and I always get a kick out of the serial killer stuff. Except for Templeton, that bastard. Season 4 is a masterpiece but it's such a downer and The Wire was always so good at dark comedy so I didn't mind the tonal shift. And yeah a lot of beloved characters don't get a noble end while awful people prosper but that's keeping with the themes of the show.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:55
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It's been a minute since I watched it and I've never done a rewatch, but one of the things I remember really appreciating about The Wire is that it never feels like "A TV Show" — in the sense of being subject to all the little behind-the-scenes whims of casting, writing, budget, all that meta-story stuff that in so many shows you always feel hanging over every situation like "lol ok so this character now has a new physical body for X contrived reason, but we all know it's because the actor quit and had to be replaced" or whatever. In this show you've got people coming and going all the time. Like you'll be in season 4 or 5 and you haven't thought about Avon Barksdale in forever and you might assume he's been written out because of contract negotiations or something but then suddenly he'll just show up out of the blue once. Or major characters will get killed off right in the middle of a season and that's just the way it goes.
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Feb 10, 2023 20:01
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There's tons of bad things that happen to characters in Season 5 but I never found it overwhelmingly depressing. We lose some really great players, and the world continues on almost unchanged, but there are some uplifting stories as well. McNulty's ending I would say is uplifting, honestly. He's a great cop, but it's also absolutely horrible for him and his soul, and he gets a second lease on life by the end of the series.
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Feb 10, 2023 21:24
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Mike N Eich posted:
You should rectify this matter. It's really loving good and worth it just to see the astonishing range of Jamie Hector and how good an actor he is. Data Graham posted:It's been a minute since I watched it and I've never done a rewatch, but one of the things I remember really appreciating about The Wire is that it never feels like "A TV Show" — in the sense of being subject to all the little behind-the-scenes whims of casting, writing, budget, all that meta-story stuff that in so many shows you always feel hanging over every situation like "lol ok so this character now has a new physical body for X contrived reason, but we all know it's because the actor quit and had to be replaced" or whatever. For me, it almost required a re-watch, for the reasons you cited. It's so loving dense and goes out of its way to respect the viewer's intelligence, not hold their hand nor cater to cliched expectations that drag down so many police dramas. I picked up so much on my second (and third) rewatch that I was almost embarrassed at all the poo poo I missed, and the surprises and connections that I unearthed once I familiarized myself with what was what, which is a testament to how mature and realistic the writing is. My only gripe with season 5 was the hamfisted serial killer hoax and Lester's sudden and out of character rebel cop heel turn. I liked the newspaper stuff myself.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:29
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We Own This City isn't nearly as good as The Wire but the story it tells is interesting and there's some good performances (Hector, Jon Bernthal, the guy who played Landsman)
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Feb 11, 2023 00:30
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It's also a real showcase of the Baltimore accent
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Feb 11, 2023 01:08
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Yeah, We Own This City was fantastic, and Jon Bernthal is incredible in it. First time I finished a full watch of The Wire I just straight up put season 1 back on and watch the entire thing all over again. I've since done multiple full rewatches and it still blows my mind just how densely packed it is, how I keep spotting things I missed or didn't grasp the full significance of. I don't know if we're likely to ever see television quite like it again, but I sure hope so.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:19
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We Own This City was good. I saw Simon say in an interview that he thought he could be more incisive with a non-fiction-based story about real people though and I didn't feel that way coming off the show as a viewer. Their biggest shots were aimed at street-level cops and the higher the person was in the chain of command (police commissioner, mayor) the less the show had to say about them. The specific drama around the Gun Trace Task Force robbing and jacking people up wasn't that interesting to me.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:38
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Ainsley McTree posted:It's also a real showcase of the Baltimore accent Amboolance
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Feb 11, 2023 05:07
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O so this is why you all keep using Templeton’s name like a cuss word.
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Feb 11, 2023 07:52
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Ainsley McTree posted:It's also a real showcase of the Baltimore accent Don't you mean the Bawlmer accent? EDIT: It's funny but the accent/vernacular thing that most makes me like 'WTF that sounds weird' in The Wire isn't any of the police lingo, not any of the street lingo or AAVE, it's the use of "police." "You're good police."
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Feb 11, 2023 07:57
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StashAugustine posted:We Own This City isn't nearly as good as The Wire but the story it tells is interesting and there's some good performances (Hector, Jon Bernthal, the guy who played Landsman) Also Dookie, that is Jermaine Crawford, too. Xiahou Dun posted:O so this is why you all keep using Templeton’s name like a cuss word. Now that I think of it, I gotta wonder how Simon came up with him. Maybe an axe to grind with someone in particular? Or just an amalgam of the awful poo poo he saw? He's not the type to keep his mouth shut when he's got a problem with somebody. If Templeton is based on one person you could probably figure out who it is based on the years they were both at the Sun and his or her resume and articles. Edit : glad you are enjoying the series. deoju fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Feb 11, 2023 |
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Feb 11, 2023 08:23
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iirc Templeton is an amalgam of a few journalists that did similar things, but I think that Stephen Glass was probably the most recognized. If you want to see Hayden Christensen be a whiny journalist instead of a whiny Jedi, check out the biopic Shattered Glass
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Feb 11, 2023 09:59
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deoju posted:Also Dookie, that is Jermaine Crawford, too. Oh what the gently caress, I did not notice that kids grow up so fast
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Feb 11, 2023 17:05
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Aces High posted:iirc Templeton is an amalgam of a few journalists that did similar things, but I think that Stephen Glass was probably the most recognized. If you want to see Hayden Christensen be a whiny journalist instead of a whiny Jedi, check out the biopic Shattered Glass There’s also specifically a reporter from the Sun, Jim Haner, who wrote a story in 2000 that had to be retracted for inaccuracies, and that Simon has said he believed invented quotes and events. I think he has elements of multiple people but if he’s directly based on anyone that’s probably the guy.
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Feb 11, 2023 19:13
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Every stinking rewatch. The part with the chicken nuggets makes me hungry for nuggets till i go get some. You think the Wire dude got paid?
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Feb 11, 2023 20:36
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drat dookie got fine as hell
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Feb 11, 2023 21:00
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There's a few bad scenes in We Own This City where characters are just reading one of David Simon's essays verbatim to the audience but other than that it's a great show with amazing rear end in a top hat performances. I hate every single one of those cops.
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Feb 11, 2023 21:19
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Mu Zeta posted:There's a few bad scenes in We Own This City where characters are just reading one of David Simon's essays verbatim to the audience but other than that it's a great show with amazing rear end in a top hat performances. I hate every single one of those cops. I really appreciate that Jon Bernthal is a fractally terrible rear end in a top hat in that show. At every level of analysis, he's still a complete douche. Corrupt cop? Yes. Drinks while driving? Yes. Drinks loving Twisted Tea and Mike's Hard while driving? Yes. And he litters the can.
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Feb 11, 2023 21:26
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Peanut is in it too, keep an eye out
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Feb 11, 2023 21:26
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Jewmanji posted:Peanut is in it too, keep an eye out And Slim Charles
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Feb 11, 2023 21:31
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And Marla Daniels.
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Feb 11, 2023 22:09
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Jewmanji posted:Peanut is in it too, keep an eye out Do you mean Donut
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Feb 11, 2023 22:17
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Yes? Whichever kid was always jacking cars
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Feb 12, 2023 00:12
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Jewmanji posted:Yes? Whichever kid was always jacking cars Donut.
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Feb 12, 2023 00:22
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is mike's cousin deez in it
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Feb 12, 2023 00:29
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awesmoe posted:is mike's cousin deez in it Doughz Nuts!
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Feb 12, 2023 01:13
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Jewmanji posted:Peanut is in it too, keep an eye out "Motherfucker, do I look like George Washington Carver?"
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Feb 12, 2023 01:30
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Jewmanji posted:Peanut is in it too, keep an eye out
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Feb 12, 2023 03:03
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Xiahou Dun posted:I really appreciate that Jon Bernthal is a fractally terrible rear end in a top hat in that show. At every level of analysis, he's still a complete douche. Stupid facial hair? Yes. lovely actor when he’s staging videos to cover up stealing money? Yes.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:16
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Pirate Radar posted:lovely actor when he’s staging videos to cover up stealing money? Yes. That was incredible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LMsb9qYbqE
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Feb 12, 2023 04:43
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Mu Zeta posted:There's a few bad scenes in We Own This City where characters are just reading one of David Simon's essays verbatim to the audience but other than that it's a great show with amazing rear end in a top hat performances. I hate every single one of those cops. Man, this is spot on and it sticks out like a sore thumb in an otherwise great show. I'd forgotten about the numerous character exposition dumps. Actually, it's not even really exposition so much as social commentary and criminal justice theories delivered as lunch conversations. "Since we all know that education is the key to keeping kids off of drugs, we need to take a long look at the system that denies poor people access to good schools and why we pay our teachers so little" - a character BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 13:54
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BiggerBoat posted:Man, this is spot on and it sticks out like a sore thumb in an otherwise great show. I'd forgotten about the numerous character exposition dumps. Actually, it's not even really exposition so much as social commentary and criminal justice theories delivered as lunch conversations. Yeah these were not good. I found Nicole Steele to be particularly bad for this; it seemed like her role on screen was to seek out mini-essays.
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Feb 12, 2023 14:09
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I’ll forgive him for being a bit didactic since people have been begging for these reforms for my entire life and it never comes.
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Feb 12, 2023 14:30
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This thread bringing it up got me to finally watch We Own This City over the weekend (saw the first episode when it came out, generally liked it, but didn't keep up with it) and yeah agreed with all that's been said. That scene in the first episode with the DOJ folks, especially the old white guy going "iPhones are no friend to the BPD" and the whole "But there's no way Trump even gets a nomination" part... it sticks out. But almost all of the other parts of the show? Great. And yeah of course seeing all those Wire alumni brings a smile to your face, worth watching for that alone.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:22
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Count Roland posted:Yeah these were not good. I found Nicole Steele to be particularly bad for this; it seemed like her role on screen was to seek out mini-essays. Was that the heavyish set black woman? *checks* Yes it was. Agreed. She did a great job delivering what was written for her and was good on the show throughout, but a lot of her dialogue felt forced, unnatural and stilted. Jewmanji posted:I’ll forgive him for being a bit didactic since people have been begging for these reforms for my entire life and it never comes. Same, and none of it was enough to take me out of the show or ruin anything but it was very hamfisted and forced in a way I'd normally expect from a right wing media production rather than someone was accomplished as David Simon. There were better ways to handle communicating that information, IMO - where you can show and not tell it - but maybe limiting the series to 6 episodes factored into that and perhaps made the writers feel like they had to shoehorn that stuff in there with limited time. It's pretty much my only real criticism of the show BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 18:28
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I don't think her role was really any different than Colvin or Gus when it came to delivering expository dialogue (or the senior teacher that takes Prez under her wing). Which I mean, they weren't the best characters in the wire, largely for that reason. But that's always been his style. I think some of those speeches feel a bit didactic now, but I was pretty young the first time I saw the wire, and those moments were pretty edifying for me. It's ok for the show to have some overt thesis statements every once in a while. Also I get that it would irk people. Like, imagine having to write a storyline within an imagined Season 6 of the wire where you're trying to depict all the things wrong with the bail system. Court procedure is a fairly technical and abstruse subject, and it would take some time to elegantly unspool that through characterization rather than occasionally having Perlman just lay it all out in a quick diatribe of frustration about how broken that system is. I think all things considered the writers did a pretty stunning job of tackling the subject matter in various ways, some subtle, others not so. Unrelated, but I was watching Andor earlier this month (highly recommended), and the whole device around the new national security law felt like it was very influenced by The Wire, in that it was a piece of background legislation whose affect you see on multiple people across the socioeconomic spectrum of the show in neat ways, whether its Andor's indefinite prison sentence of Mon Mothma's accounts being put under a microscope . The Wire was always great about showing that sort of butterfly effect, and I don't know of other shows that plant subtle seeds like that and let them grow and proliferate organically. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 18:34
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BiggerBoat posted:Same, and none of it was enough to take me out of the show or ruin anything but it was very hamfisted and forced in a way I'd normally expect from a right wing media production rather than someone was accomplished as David Simon. There were better ways to handle communicating that information, IMO - where you can show and not tell it - but maybe limiting the series to 6 episodes factored into that and perhaps made the writers feel like they had to shoehorn that stuff in there with limited time. Jewmanji posted:I don't think her role was really any different than Colvin or Gus when it came to delivering expository dialogue (or the senior teacher that takes Prez under her wing). Which I mean, they weren't the best characters in the wire, largely for that reason. But that's always been his style. I think some of those speeches feel a bit didactic now, but I was pretty young the first time I saw the wire, and those moments were pretty edifying for me. It's ok for the show to have some overt thesis statements every once in a while. Really good observations and points here. I think Simon's brand has always been a kind of didactic authenticity (not that this is a new idea to his fans or anything). Sometimes he has his characters give speeches (like in We Own This City and Treme), but sometimes he lets actions or situations speak for themselves (like Generation Kill and The Corner). No matter how he does it, he's always exposing something wrong and saying something about it.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:35
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