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Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


DropsySufferer posted:

That's one thing I've have liked to see; the rise of Avon and Stringer. My one issue with the show is that Stringer seems so much smarter then Avon for the most part. We don't have much time to see how Avon was running things because Avon is gone and jailed 1st season. Avon never impressed me because it looked like string was running the show. Apart from a few orders what exactly was Avon doing? Now that's where the series just did not have time to cover that I'll bet. Still imagine how great a wire prequel would be showing the rise of Avon, and String, and maybe a young Freamon, and Daniels, or even Rawls.

I thought that Avon's dad and uncle had been in charge of the Barksdale crew prior and it was only the year or so prior to when season 1 takes place that Avon had taken over control of the towers and low-rises.

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BrBa
Oct 12, 2012


Up to S02E08 (Duck and Cover); I'd completely forgotten that cat-and-mouse game in the episode between Sobotka and the detail. I love how when this show wants to do it old school and have a tense set-piece, it does, and it's even better that it's built off the earlier established process of how they track a can. The greatest strength of The Wire may be its pacing and its delayed gratification.

And the humor as well. This is probably the funniest episode yet.

"It takes a whore to catch a whore."
"The gently caress did I do?"

"I thought you were born in pinstripes."

"You motherfuckers gave me BAD ADVICE!" God, Ziggy is just such an unbelievable gently caress-up.

I remembered there being a scene in which D'Angelo confronted Avon about the hotshots. I could've sworn there was a line like, "that poo poo with the hot shots, that was evil." Instead he just walks by him on a corridor, which is probably more powerful. D :(

This season has a lot more overt racism than probably any other. Ziggy, Frank and Nick all throw around the N-word pretty liberally. It's kinda weird actually.

Most unrealistic part of the show: McNulty apparently being a pussy magnet in spite of himself. Seriously, is there any chemistry at all between him and Beadie before she decides to bring him home? And what kind of waitress is that that sees an obviously drunk man sleeping in her diner, with a bandaged hand and a hosed-up car, and thinks "I so want to bang this dude?"

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(



watt par posted:

I thought that Avon's dad and uncle had been in charge of the Barksdale crew prior and it was only the year or so prior to when season 1 takes place that Avon had taken over control of the towers and low-rises.

You really only get bits and pieces of the Barksdale history but i'm fresh off a rewatch so i'll give it a shot. watt par is right the family had been in the game for a long time at different levels, but only a year(probably more, Mcnulty is the one who said a year, honestly i would add a year or two to that) before the first season is when Avon and crew took the towers.

D'Angelo asked in his last interrogation if they knew who his grandfather was and Mcnulty gives him the "gently caress yeah i do" nod. I think that scene shows how far back it goes, but it was Avon's crew who built something you could call a crime syndicate.

Randomly Specific
Sep 22, 2012

My keys are somewhere in there.

BrBa posted:

Most unrealistic part of the show: McNulty apparently being a pussy magnet in spite of himself. Seriously, is there any chemistry at all between him and Beadie before she decides to bring him home? And what kind of waitress is that that sees an obviously drunk man sleeping in her diner, with a bandaged hand and a hosed-up car, and thinks "I so want to bang this dude?"

In general I can see it- he's portrayed as having that unique magnetism. With Beadie I saw the roots of it when he came by to investigate the can. He comes across as competent (he is competent in investigations, just nothing else) and he seems like he cares (but he really usually doesn't care about the people, just the game.)

The waitress one did seem off, but this being The Wire I bet it's based at least loosely on a true story of somebody Simon or Burns knew.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


If you notice though, you almost never see the dock guys use the n-word to refer to anybody but drug dealers or otherwise gangsters, never to their own. Except for one scene with Frank thing bout the canal to the other union head.

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


I started watching "The Corner" on youtube and I'm not done with it yet, but here's me in every episode:

:psypop: Dammit DeAndre! What kind of fools raised you?

:crossarms:

:( Oh... I see

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(



Edit: Don't want to spoil anyone

Fragmented fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Feb 24, 2013

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


Yeah, please no Corner spoilers in here. I watched it once before, but ironically, it was all during one 6 hour opioid nod. I know some of the major plot points, but I think we should make a new thread to discuss the Corner if we are going to discuss it.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008

You can't see me at all...



Randomly Specific posted:

The waitress one did seem off, but this being The Wire I bet it's based at least loosely on a true story of somebody Simon or Burns knew.

Some ladies go crazy for a man with a badge, and if I recall properly, he's got it prominently on display on his belt. A few fakes lines about what he'd been doing that evening, and I could see it no problem.

geeves
Sep 16, 2004



escape artist posted:

Yeah, please no Corner spoilers in here. I watched it once before, but ironically, it was all during one 6 hour opioid nod. I know some of the major plot points, but I think we should make a new thread to discuss the Corner if we are going to discuss it.

The Corner is currently available OnDemand, too! On Comcast if that matters. If there is a new thread for just the Corner, I'll post there, as well.

POLICE CAR AUCTION
Dec 1, 2003

I'm not a princess





Rewatching season three: holy poo poo, Rawls pops up at that gay bar near the end of the season for nearly a second. I'd heard about it but didn't notice until now.

melon farmer
Oct 28, 2009

My boy says he can eat fifty eggs, he can eat fifty eggs!


My fiancÚ got all excited for the possibility of a new subplot when that scene happened, and still doesn't believe me when I say it never comes up again in any capacity.

Randomly Specific
Sep 22, 2012

My keys are somewhere in there.

Spoilers Below posted:

Some ladies go crazy for a man with a badge, and if I recall properly, he's got it prominently on display on his belt. A few fakes lines about what he'd been doing that evening, and I could see it no problem.

Aaaaah, I didn't note the badge in the scene. Yeah if that's true then that scene suddenly makes a lot more sense.

Tiny Chalupa
Feb 14, 2012


So I am joining this rewatch party very late as I'm on the 2nd episode of season 1. It is kinda fun reading what everyone else has wrote up leading to the next episodes rewatch but god do I miss this show. I have a few friends who thought this show was to "slow" but man I love it.

SlimWhiskey
Jun 1, 2010


Almost done with my season 4 rewatch. It really struck me this time just how much Herc fucks everything up. He was never good for anything besides busting heads on the corner. And now that he has a little rank he just ruins everything he touches.

HoneyBoy
Oct 12, 2012

get murked son

SlimWhiskey posted:

Almost done with my season 4 rewatch. It really struck me this time just how much Herc fucks everything up. He was never good for anything besides busting heads on the corner. And now that he has a little rank he just ruins everything he touches.

It's all too fitting that he ends up working on the other side of the law with criminal lawyers like Levy against the very police he started out with, Batman he is not. :colbert:

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


HoneyBoy posted:

It's all too fitting that he ends up working on the other side of the law with criminal lawyers like Levy against the very police he started out with, Batman he is not. :colbert:

What always strikes me is, toward the end of the Season 4, he pulls over Chris and Snoop, and is a real rear end in a top hat to Snoop. Then, only a few episodes later in Season 5, he's working in the office of her lawyer, and Snoop gives him a nod and he motions to her with his finger as if to say "see you around".

It's easy to villify Herc for screwing up the investigation under Marrimow and breaking his promise to Bubbles multiple times, which leads to Sherrod's death, (and putting an end to Hamsterdam) but he also was an expendable pawn, he lost his job for political reasons, didn't he? Burrell trying to save his rear end, and Tommy trying to not lose the support of the black ministers.

Herc isn't evil, he's just incompetent. Even as the private investigator for Levy, he's pretty incompetent. Things just fall into place for him, so he becomes mishpocha to Levy.

Colicchio and Walker, I would say, are evil.

escape artist fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 27, 2013

PlisskensEyePatch
Oct 10, 2012


I don't know if Colicchio is evil like Walker. I kind of always saw him as what Herc would have been without the restraint of Daniels and Kima and even Carver. He's a cop that likes being a cop, especially the muscle part, but he lets his emotions get the better of him because no one has ever taught him to show some restraint. When Carver tries, he ignores him because what the hell does Carver know? He's better just because he has those strips, and now those bars?

Colicchio the macho-cop, and he likes to be macho-cop. Carver grew out of it because of Kima, Daniels, and especially Colvin, and even tried to bring Herc along.

Walker, though, yeah, he's evil. And he'll probably make rank and win at The Game for the rest of his career.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


Herd is too much of an idiot for the most part to be really evil. If he had been able to stick with Kima Carver for a longer period he'd have turned out better.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


I don't think Colicchio ever did anything outright racist, but he really struck me as a racist character. Watching him throw young black kids against the wall, and pulling that black teacher out of his car because he was frustrated.

Walker's character was deliberately written as a black man, to show the disdain that can arise from different classes. More specifically, he probably grew up in the same circumstances as a lot of people, but feels that becoming a police he rose above them. Walker was downright evil, for sure.

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


escape artist posted:

I don't think Colicchio ever did anything outright racist, but he really struck me as a racist character. Watching him throw young black kids against the wall, and pulling that black teacher out of his car because he was frustrated.

Walker's character was deliberately written as a black man, to show the disdain that can arise from different classes. More specifically, he probably grew up in the same circumstances as a lot of people, but feels that becoming a police he rose above them. Walker was downright evil, for sure.

Colicchio definitely seemed racist. Honestly, Herc was a bit racist too. That's not to say he was a hateful racist like Colicchio, which was really good, but he had some slightly messed up ideas about race.

Lugaloco
Jun 29, 2011


I dunno, it's hard to picture anyone as being truly evil to the core but if I could Walker would certainly be up there. The great thing about The Wire is it makes you think about the way institutions, culture and upbringing shape a person into who they are and why they take a particular path in life. You learn not to judge based on impression alone but to really get the background of a character so that you can make an informed, objective opinion on where they stand and how they got there. So even if you loathe a character for who they are or what they do, you can still understand why they are like that since the show takes its time to build a world which has true consequence for everyone on every level.

I mean how many times have you watched a TV show where this character is clearly "THE BIG BAD GUY" with no clear basis in reality and whose motivations are arbitrary at best. Sure, you may get some lines of dialogue explaining some part of their past but it often has nothing to do with anything and doesn't tie into any of the show's main themes. It's actually somewhat refreshing to see more shows that lay some solid groundwork for a character's motivation to "do evil" since you can in some way relate to them. After all, they're only human. Walter White of Breaking Bad is a great example, where you can see why he "broke bad" and piece together various tidbits of information to envision a solid timeline of events and relationships that led him down his twisted path. The Wire is special in this regard in that you are given a solid background picture of a vast array of characters that, while fascinating in itself, brings life to a setting and ties in with all the main themes the show has going.


Also I finally got my boxset back from my friend who loved it start to finish. Time to get the rewatch on once more :getin:

Edit: Holy poo poo just watching some old 30 Rock episode and god drat Waylon of all people is singing a charity song to help replace an old man's kidney :psyduck:

Lugaloco fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 28, 2013

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


Avon and Stringer once had a woman killed simply for witnessing another murder. I hate when we give a free pass to the drug dealers and thieves on the show because we spent so much time with them and convinced ourselves that they were good. No, Wee Bey is bad, he is in jail because he deserves to be in jail.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


Lugaloco posted:



Edit: Holy poo poo just watching some old 30 Rock episode and god drat Waylon of all people is singing a charity song to help replace an old man's kidney :psyduck:

That's Steve Earle. He's got a new album coming out soon. He's a loving music legend.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


escape artist posted:

That's Steve Earle. He's got a new album coming out soon. He's a loving music legend.

I saw him back in October? Maybe September. Dude has the goddamn most eclectic selection of music and such a strange variety of fans. And he puts on a good show.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


escape artist posted:

That's Steve Earle. He's got a new album coming out soon. He's a loving music legend.

And a former heroin addict. The character of Waylon wasn't that much of a stretch for him.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


And cocaine too. Steve Earle owns.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Avon and Stringer once had a woman killed simply for witnessing another murder. I hate when we give a free pass to the drug dealers and thieves on the show because we spent so much time with them and convinced ourselves that they were good. No, Wee Bey is bad, he is in jail because he deserves to be in jail.

Nobody is giving WeeBey, Avon or Stringer a free pass/claiming they're good (and if they are, they shouldn't be!) - it's just that the show effectively shows that they're not just 1-dimensional "bad guys" - they're people with histories, backgrounds and conditions that helped shape them into the people they became.

Lugaloco posted:

I mean how many times have you watched a TV show where this character is clearly "THE BIG BAD GUY" with no clear basis in reality and whose motivations are arbitrary at best.

As Lugaloco says, we get to see nearly all the characters in-depth, and it enables us to see them as more than just white hats/black hats/good guys/bad guys or any other label. Wee Bey deserves to be in prison, but so does Omar, and for that matter so does McNulty and Clay Davis and even Lester Freamon.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


Oh yeah, I know he's a recovered addict. It lends such a degree of verisimilitude to his character.

Speaking of which, I missed my NA meeting tonight.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



escape artist posted:

Speaking of which, I missed my NA meeting tonight.

:ohdear:

Go to your meeting, please!

chesh
Apr 19, 2004

That was terrible.


escape artist posted:

Speaking of which, I missed my NA meeting tonight.

I went to my first ever NA meeting a few weeks ago, to support my friend who got his 60 days sober key tag. I was like Mother Hen proud of him. I also learned that AA people hate the NA people, which is a feud I think the world could do without. I was also also slightly weirded out by people introducing themselves with hugs. End of the meeting, after all the sharing? I totally was up for hugging. Walking in and taking off my coat and sticking my hand out to introduce myself and instead being wrapped up in a hug by a total stranger? Little weird.

All of which got me to thinking that my (admittedly single) experience with NA was different than what is typically shown in TV and movies, including The Wire. They show chairs laid out in rows, almost pew like, and a podium from which one person speaks, or (in House of Cards, most recently) a square or circle with a vast empty space between people. In my NA meeting, we all sat in a circle around a few tables. It was structured yet free form, with no designated speaker. There were pats on the back and hand holding, much more personal than what TV/movies had taught me to expect. Also, there was no smoking.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


chesh posted:

I went to my first ever NA meeting a few weeks ago, to support my friend who got his 60 days sober key tag. I was like Mother Hen proud of him. I also learned that AA people hate the NA people, which is a feud I think the world could do without. I was also also slightly weirded out by people introducing themselves with hugs. End of the meeting, after all the sharing? I totally was up for hugging. Walking in and taking off my coat and sticking my hand out to introduce myself and instead being wrapped up in a hug by a total stranger? Little weird.

All of which got me to thinking that my (admittedly single) experience with NA was different than what is typically shown in TV and movies, including The Wire. They show chairs laid out in rows, almost pew like, and a podium from which one person speaks, or (in House of Cards, most recently) a square or circle with a vast empty space between people. In my NA meeting, we all sat in a circle around a few tables. It was structured yet free form, with no designated speaker. There were pats on the back and hand holding, much more personal than what TV/movies had taught me to expect. Also, there was no smoking.

You can smoke outside of the place, but you can't smoke in it. And there's always coffee. Always coffee. I was unnerved by the "greet people with hugs" thing at first too. The only thing that bothers me is all the God stuff, but you can look past that.

FYI, I missed it because I tweaked something in my back something awful. I could barely get out of bed. I was only able to post last night because I eventually put a giant Capsaicin patch across my entire back. I've been living with chronic pain for 7 years, and with that, eventually comes the attempt to numb the pain with various methods (pills, booze).

And yeah, it's different from how they portray it in the show. They downplay some of the cult-like aspects of it in the show, and the chairs are always arranged in a giant circle.

escape artist fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Feb 28, 2013

Frostwerks
Sep 24, 2007

by Lowtax


It's always possible that different venues have equally different layouts.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


Frostwerks posted:

It's always possible that different venues have equally different layouts.

I've been to several different venues, and it's always a circle.

Even when there are no chairs out, the instructor tells everyone to form a circle with the chairs.

There are three reasons for it:
A) Everyone gets to face each other and provides for a more intimate environment.
B) The circle represents unity
C) At the end of each meeting, you form a circle with your arms around the person to the right and left of you, and recite the serenity creed.

Fellis
Feb 14, 2012

Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.


escape artist posted:

Herc isn't evil, he's just incompetent. Even as the private investigator for Levy, he's pretty incompetent. Things just fall into place for him, so he becomes mishpocha to Levy.

Although Herc does help out Levy by rushing along the Major Crimes case when he steals Marlo's number. I always thought it was funny that Levy is so happy that Stanfield's crew starts using cell phones again because he knows that they are eventually going to get caught and will need his services in the court cases.

I actually don't remember, is there anything else Herc does for Levy in S5? I just remember him showing up to the police bar a few times to buy drinks for everyone.

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality


Not really related to the wire but is NA like an non-religious AA?

I just watched the episode where Ziggy shoots that middleman salesfront character and his son. Ziggy really is just a dumb kid, I can explain his actions best as he wanted to be gangster and respected. Just for that moment he lost it and did what he did. Can anyone give other reasons on why the hell he did that? I enjoy seeing different perspectives aside from mine.

I've known people like Ziggy the whole thing is just really :(
If he had been in college he'd be just another dumb kid, very sad. Same is true for so many other characters of course, but I think we personally relate to some characters better than others and I've known a "ziggy".

melon farmer
Oct 28, 2009

My boy says he can eat fifty eggs, he can eat fifty eggs!


DropsySufferer posted:

Not really related to the wire but is NA like an non-religious AA?

I just watched the episode where Ziggy shoots that middleman salesfront character and his son. Ziggy really is just a dumb kid, I can explain his actions best as he wanted to be gangster and respected. Just for that moment he lost it and did what he did. Can anyone give other reasons on why the hell he did that? I enjoy seeing different perspectives aside from mine.

I've known people like Ziggy the whole thing is just really :(
If he had been in college he'd be just another dumb kid, very sad. Same is true for so many other characters of course, but I think we personally relate to some characters better than others and I've known a "ziggy".

He says when he gets the visit from Frank that he was just tired of being the butt of every joke. Why he had a gun in the first place probably includes some misplaced aspirations of gangsterhood, but I'm inclined to take it at face value that he just got sick of being everyone's bitch and snapped.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


DropsySufferer posted:

Not really related to the wire but is NA like an non-religious AA?

No, they're the same thing, and it's really off-putting for Atheist addicts like myself who have to bow their heads and pray for God to give us strength, etc.

Step #1 is to admit you're powerless over your addiction... Step #2 is to turn yourself over to a higher power. So I guess, by that logic, I should just... turn myself over to painkillers and liquor?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Yea the whole season they build Ziggy up as a guy who is basically a good person, but he gets no respect from anyone in any aspect of his life. His father thinks he's a loser and has basically written him off, his co-workers think of him as a joke who only has a job because of nepotism, and Nick does his best to be his friend but as soon as poo poo gets serious he wants Zig as far away as possible so as to not gently caress things up.

You can see when he leaves Double-G's shop and sits in his car, the look on his face says "No, not this time. This is one time I will not be disrespected and thrown aside like garbage. I will make them respect me or they'll regret it." You can also tell when he buys the gun that he doesn't even really know why he's buying it. He's just got so much anger inside and he has no clue what to do with it.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



There's a great scene between Ziggy and Frank earlier in the season where Ziggy basically lays out the reasons why he does everything. He's spent his life on the docks, watching his father and seeing the respect and love that everybody has for Frank. More than anything else, he wants to be Frank, but he just doesn't understand WHY Frank is respected or what he does to earn that respect. Ziggy kind of takes everything at face value, so he sees that union worker who was thinking of leaving get given thousands of dollars in Frank's name, he knows that Frank is working with smugglers, he knows that things get stolen off of the crates and in his mind it adds up to,"People respect a guy who flaunts the law and spends up large."

When it doesn't work he's left perplexed, he doesn't understand why Frank does it and gets respect and yet when he does it he gets derision, and (being Ziggy) he just puts his head down and digs in deeper, and makes things worse for himself.

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