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thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012


Shredded Hen

Anecdote: The only time I have ever reacted outwardly towards my TV during a show was when Slim Charles dropped Cheese out of nowhere. I think I sat up and clapped for like a solid 10 seconds and had to rewatch the rest of the scene immediately.

"That was for Joe"

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



David Simon: We're creating reality here, Ed! The bad guys win, the good guys spit into the wind, the world is a bleak and desolate place where the corrupt and stupid and short-sighted are rewarded and THAT is what we're going to show!
Ed Burns: What about Cheese?
David Simon: Oh that motherfucker has to get got.

doug fuckey
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

gingerberger posted:

It will never be on netflix unless hbo has a serious change in their business model so don't wait around for it. Also be careful with downloading it, hbo has hired 3rd party firm to hunt down people downloading, idk if any real punishment could come of it, but they will send angry legal letters to you and your ISP so I would suggest getting a cheap DVD player or upgrade to TV/laptop with hdmi connectors

The first time, at least, they just warn you.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010


Hey, thread, I'm running a game of mafia in the Game Room with The Wire as a theme. It's newbie-friendly, so if anyone's looking for a new way to kill some time take a look at the rules in the link above and head here for a signup.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012


Shredded Hen

In S1 when Stinkum is bringin the re-up to the terrace right before Omar and crew stick them up for the first time he tells Bodie "10 minutes."

I've never understood this part. Does he mean they're gonna go inside and wait 10 minutes to make their stop by the apt look more legit in case anyone is watching or to stop selling for 10 minutes while they break down the pack or what? I figure it is some kind of security measure cause why would it take 10 minutes just to make the drop-off?

drunken officeparty
Aug 23, 2006



Just finished S2. I don't know if I like it better than S1 or not. It almost had a game of thrones thing going on with too many characters and plotlines to fit in an hour long episode. It felt like with the police all on the docks that anything to do with the drugs or in the pit or Avon and stuff was just going nowhere.

Although when I finally made the realization that Prop Joe was getting his drugs from the boat guys I was like a giddy little school girl.

the_american_dream
Apr 12, 2008

GAHDAMN


My first run with the series I only managed to see half of season 2, now rewatching it, Ziggy may be the dumbest kid in the history of ever

Knuc U Kinte
Aug 17, 2004



thathonkey posted:

Anecdote: The only time I have ever reacted outwardly towards my TV during a show was when Slim Charles dropped Cheese out of nowhere. I think I sat up and clapped for like a solid 10 seconds and had to rewatch the rest of the scene immediately.

"That was for Joe"

I also clapped at my television set when I saw that.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


drunken officeparty posted:

Just finished S2. I don't know if I like it better than S1 or not. It almost had a game of thrones thing going on with too many characters and plotlines to fit in an hour long episode. It felt like with the police all on the docks that anything to do with the drugs or in the pit or Avon and stuff was just going nowhere.

Although when I finally made the realization that Prop Joe was getting his drugs from the boat guys I was like a giddy little school girl.

I think most people think S2 is worse than S1 the first time through. After re watching people generally like it better than they did the 1st time.

the_american_dream
Apr 12, 2008

GAHDAMN


Lt. Daniels shockingly being built like a Greek God will never not be funny to me

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005



the_american_dream posted:

Lt. Daniels shockingly being built like a Greek God will never not be funny to me

This...For a dude who seems to be so stressed and in the thick of it he certainly seems to have a lot of "me" time.



My immersion!

drunken officeparty
Aug 23, 2006



I don't think I can watch this any more with Littlefinger in it.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



drunken officeparty posted:

I don't think I can watch this any more with Littlefinger in it.

The funny thing is many people watching Game of Thrones AFTER they'd already seen The Wire can't help but call him Carcetti.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


Jerusalem posted:

The funny thing is many people watching Game of Thrones AFTER they'd already seen The Wire can't help but call him Carcetti.

Yeah took me about 2 GoT seasons before I stopped expecting him to go on fundraising trips and talk to that assistance with a comically deep voice.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Littlefinger is far too decent a person to be as competent a politcian as carcetti.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



drunken officeparty posted:

I don't think I can watch this any more with Littlefinger in it.

You'll stop thinking Littlefinger as his defining role when you're done with this.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


gingerberger posted:

Yeah took me about 2 GoT seasons before I stopped expecting him to go on fundraising trips and talk to that assistance with a comically deep voice.

And I kept waiting for that assistant to say, "gently caress politics. I'm going to barbecue."

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





Blasted through series 5 this week. What a ridiculously satisfying finale that was. They made the most of every second and it was just beautiful. So many callbacks and the cyclical theme was handled perfectly.

I wish the closing montage gave a bit more closure on Kima though. I feel like the 'goodnight to everybody' scene from a few episodes back was her 'ending', but it would have been nice to throw a bone to one of the best characters in the whole show. A bit of a redemption/comeuppance for Herc would have been nice too, but I can see why they didn't go that way.

At first I was really confused about why they did what they did with Omar, after making so much of his story in the series. At first I thought his list would be the key to solving the whole thing. But Michael's ending makes their intent pretty clear. I'm glad they didn't do the same thing with Bubbles/Dukie. That would have torn my heart open.

A loving great show though. loving great.

edit: Oh yeah, and I thought the way they handled the Sun story was pretty interesting too. Every other series 'side story' pretty much took centre stage and was completely integral to the plot, but this one was more of a different lens through which to see the events unfold. It was heavily involved in the story too, but in a different way. It felt like it would have worked just as well if the Sun characters never interacted with the other character groups at all.

stev fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 27, 2014

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends


I think Omar's arc was perfect. He started out as a badass, became this larger than life living breathing myth, gets gunned down when he lets his guard down and then gets confused with a white guy when he's in the morgue. Just goes to show that what happens on the street means less than poo poo to the big wide world

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


As early as season 3 the writers became aware of Omar glorifying violence and they did everything they could to turn his character away from being an object of adoration or emulation. Of course, they also had that silly wild west showdown between him and Brother Mouzone that season too.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010


Bunk's speech on that point was one of the few times I felt a little removed from the character vs. the scriptwriter. Not that it was particularly out of character, it just seemed to have a different tone to it.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


comes along bort posted:

As early as season 3 the writers became aware of Omar glorifying violence and they did everything they could to turn his character away from being an object of adoration or emulation. Of course, they also had that silly wild west showdown between him and Brother Mouzone that season too.

I thought that scene was awesome. "At this range? With this caliber? Even if I miss I can't miss"

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





What the gently caress was Brother Mouzone anyway? He was like a cartoon character that came and went without anyone pointing it out.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


Steve2911 posted:

What the gently caress was Brother Mouzone anyway? He was like a cartoon character that came and went without anyone pointing it out.

He was a badass with a bow tie. Duh

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die


Grimey Drawer

Steve2911 posted:

What the gently caress was Brother Mouzone anyway? He was like a cartoon character that came and went without anyone pointing it out.

Yeah, so many of the characters are well-drawn because they're based on people David Simon knew. But I really doubt David Simon knew anyone like Brother Mouzone.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



To me, Omar and Mouzone both are examples of the reaction to the hosed up/unfair society taken to the extreme. You have millions of people (black, white or hispanic) being born into poverty and injustice with the decks stacked against them from before the day they're born. They grow up in a society where it's increasingly obvious that they are forgotten or overlooked or openly despised, seeing everywhere examples that they way they live is not considered normal, but being denied what should be theirs as a matter of course. They're hosed by the Justice System, the Education System, the class system (while being told there is no such thing in America) and worst of all for a very large proportion of them, they're hosed by the simple matter of their skin color.

So some buckle down and strive hard to try and stay within the "norm" of how society says they should act, while others look outside the system to find some way to escape it or game it. Think about how often the phrase "The Game" comes out - "The Game" is just shorthand for the lawless underworld/underbelly of society they live in, but I always think there's something more to it than that, a way for people to distance themselves from the horrors of the reality they live in, to turn the dangers and risks and overwhelming depression of their lot in life into a "game". Guys on corners call themselves "soldiers", they operate in "crews", Avon is "The King", Marlo wants to wear "the Crown", everybody wants to sit at "the table", guys get "dropped" etc. Those who can't justify or self-deceive themselves about the nature of their lives retreat into drugs or violent nihilism (or both), those who can almost inevitably create a self-image of themselves that in some way counters the truth of their relative powerlessness in the overall scheme of things.

And then you've got Mouzone and Omar, two guys who seem to have wrapped themselves up as living myths. Omar is a gunslinger, Mouzone is the educated man in total control of his emotions and passions, and quite frankly even considering how deadly they are they're also utterly ludicrous figures when removed from the setting of the streets. Mouzone's stoic posturing in the hospital is a performance almost purely for his own benefit, Omar's appearance in the courtroom is utterly comical and despite his easy charm and the way he knocks Levy down a peg or two, the jury aren't in terror or awe of him, he's a jester wearing a silly tie.

But put them on the street and they're the stuff of legends. Omar announces his coming with his whistling, children rushing ahead calling out,"OMAR COMING!" - both silly things to do from a tactical point of view (everybody knows he's coming!) but enormously effective from a psychological point of view. For the people on the streets, Omar (and Mouzone) are larger than life figures, living myths who bestride the world like colossi. That scene where the two showdown is about the most cinematic scene I can recall across all five seasons and I don't for a second think it wasn't deliberate - two guys who turned themselves into these legendary figures and whose meeting needs to be suitably epic. Cut all the cinematic shots and reduce it to the basics and you've got a stick-up artist and a hitman meeting in a stinking alley on a cold night amongst some derelict houses - it becomes a squalid, ugly and somewhat pathetic moment. But while we're supposedly passive observers, we're seeing this from the point of view of Omar and Mouzone themselves - that detached, reality-defying need to make themselves bigger and better than they really are.

And that is why Bunk's verbal takedown on how everything Omar represents is revolting is so important. He's a killer, glorified by children who look to him as a role model and mythical figure. He's dealt drugs himself, stolen though they may be, and other people have died because of his actions. More than that, Omar and those kid's reactions to him show the downfall of the community in Baltimore (and all across the country) - people no longer look out for each other, they only look out for themselves and glory in the idea of taking things from others, of being powerful enough to just take what they want when they want it, just like Omar.

In his book The Corner, David Simon spends a significant section talking about the loss of the "community" and what a hugely negative impact that has had on Baltimore. He says it far better than I ever could, and is just one of the many, many reasons I recommend everybody read it and Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012


Shredded Hen

drat i dont have anything to add but thanks for all the brilliant posts about Omar. Of course my initial reaction to his anti-climactic death was disappointment, after stepping back and analyzing the bigger picture i have to agree his arc was pretty much perfect in a show full of so maybe great arcs.

The only one that might top it imho is Bubs'

Edit: speaking of Bubs, is he the only character with an unequivocally happy ending?

Sam.
Dec 31, 2008

"I thought we had something, Shepard. Something real."
:qq:


thathonkey posted:

drat i dont have anything to add but thanks for all the brilliant posts about Omar. Of course my initial reaction to his anti-climactic death was disappointment, after stepping back and analyzing the bigger picture i have to agree his arc was pretty much perfect in a show full of so maybe great arcs.

The only one that might top it imho is Bubs'

Edit: speaking of Bubs, is he the only character with an unequivocally happy ending?

Namond does pretty well, getting adopted by Bunny, getting off the street, and doing good academically.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





thathonkey posted:

Edit: speaking of Bubs, is he the only character with an unequivocally happy ending?

I think there's an argument to be made for McNulty and Freamon getting happier endings than you could have reasonably expected. Namond and Rhonda too, most certainly.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.



I love how when the streets are all abuzz with the (for once, true) rumour of Omar's death, the journalist at the newspaper doesn't even give a second glance at his name. The biggest, most fearsome/mythologized name in one world isn't even recognizable in the other.

Unzip and Attack
Mar 3, 2008

USPOL May

I also really liked Cutty's arc. He's really the only character to quit the streets (by that I mean being a real player in the game) and find happiness. Watching him teeter on the edge of falling back into that life only to balk at that crucial moment is one of my favorite parts in the series. People can change.

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx


Cutty's redemption is a little off because it implicitly endorses the idea that prison can reform criminals essentially by breaking their spirit.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





comes along bort posted:

Cutty's redemption is a little off because it implicitly endorses the idea that prison can reform criminals essentially by breaking their spirit.

I'd say age and experience did that more than prison.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Steve2911 posted:

I think there's an argument to be made for McNulty and Freamon getting happier endings than you could have reasonably expected. Namond and Rhonda too, most certainly.

Daniels doesn't get off too badly either, I don't think. Seems like getting out of the police department and starting a new career (in the happy-go-lucky, carefree life of a criminal defense lawyer) is a step up from the cutthroat world of the department.

comes along bort posted:

Cutty's redemption is a little off because it implicitly endorses the idea that prison can reform criminals essentially by breaking their spirit.

I hadn't really thought of that, but I dunno, I don't think the show really has anything good to say about the prison system. Every other character's reaction to it (except Ziggy) is basically "I don't mind, you only do two days anyway" and then they're back to the game. Prison's just a square on the board for them.

Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jul 28, 2014

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





Daniels is sort of bittersweet, since he'd probably have excelled at the job and done amazingly well for himself in a just world.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


Sam. posted:

Namond does pretty well, getting adopted by Bunny, getting off the street, and doing good academically.

The show beat my spirit to death because I viewed Namond's last scene as ambiguous. He watches that car roll by and you could take his reaction one of two ways: he can't believe he was involved in that life and is thankful to be out of it, or he wonders what could have been and almost wistfully watches as the car passes. I'm sure that the former is the better reading of the scene, but the possibility is still there and that's horrifying.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

comes along bort posted:

Cutty's redemption is a little off because it implicitly endorses the idea that prison can reform criminals essentially by breaking their spirit.

Its certainly open to interpretation because Cutty's time in prison isn't really explored, but that's not how I saw his character at all. If anything it seems like prison rejuvenated him. He was dead on the inside when he went in, and whatever happened to him there brought him back to life somewhat. All of the sudden he can't look teenagers in the eye and murder them like he used to, and he discovers he has a desire to help people, which he didn't expect and it takes him a little while to even figure out how he can do that. I wouldn't describe him as a guy who's spirit is broken, far from it.

Unzip and Attack
Mar 3, 2008

USPOL May

Also I think it's one of the Wire's strengths that it doesn't paint institutions like the PD or prison or Unions as 100% good or bad. There are people who go to prison and come out better people. poo poo, D'Angelo looked like he was actually exploring some real feelings and growing as a person before he ended up dead. He was becoming an addict sure, but he was also taking a real look at his life on the street and coming to some difficult conclusions about how all the poo poo about loyalty, family, etc. was just that - bullshit. Had D lived I could see him turning out the way Cutty did.

drunken officeparty
Aug 23, 2006



This plotline about them moving everyone to a vacant street to openly sell drugs is kind of testing my limits on believability.

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pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.



drunken officeparty posted:

This plotline about them moving everyone to a vacant street to openly sell drugs is kind of testing my limits on believability.

To be fair, exactly nobody thinks it's a good or workable idea except for the one guy with just enough power to get it going.

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