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Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Aishan posted:

It's never outright stated, but it's insinuated that when he was younger and lot more foolish he pocketed money seized from drug raids, much like we see Herc and Carver doing during the series.

It also implicates that Carver, becoming a better cop by learning from the people who actually care and are competent in police work, will suffer the same fate as Daniels if he ever gets involved in the politics and goes into the position of Major or above, being actually able to change how the system works.

The game stays the same; Carver will get eaten by the mistakes made when he did not know better, similarly as Stringer got killed when he tried to change the nature of his drug empire, or when Marlo tried to enforce brutal approach to quell any competition. New generation, same old poo poo. The game stays the same no matter who are the key players.

Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Oct 3, 2014

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Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Der Kyhe posted:

It also implicates that Carver, becoming a better cop by learning from the people who actually care and are competent in police work, will suffer the same fate as Daniels if he ever gets involved in the politics and goes into the position of Major or above, being actually able to change how the system works.

The game stays the same; Carver will get eaten by the mistakes made when he did not know better, similarly as Stringer got killed when he tried to change the nature of his drug empire.

I don't think Carver is in as quite a precarious situation though, is he? He never actually got caught stealing drug money as far as I can remember, the only thing he ever really got caught doing was spying on the Major Crimes Unit for the bosses in Season 1, and even that was just a private "listen up, you piece of poo poo" speech from Daniels.

Daniels had written evidence that could be used to blackmail him, but I don't think Carver has anything similar; he might survive if he plays the game well enough.

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Ainsley McTree posted:

I don't think Carver is in as quite a precarious situation though, is he? He never actually got caught stealing drug money as far as I can remember, the only thing he ever really got caught doing was spying on the Major Crimes Unit for the bosses in Season 1, and even that was just a private "listen up, you piece of poo poo" speech from Daniels.

Daniels had written evidence that could be used to blackmail him, but I don't think Carver has anything similar; he might survive if he plays the game well enough.

I edited my post after your reply, but I still think the key elements are there: stealing money, cutting corners (Fuzzy Dunlop), being involved in the Hamsterdam affair and similar stuff. There probably is enought things to politically bury Carver even without any official FBI investigation.

Lugaloco
Jun 29, 2011


Ainsley McTree posted:

I don't think Carver is in as quite a precarious situation though, is he? He never actually got caught stealing drug money as far as I can remember, the only thing he ever really got caught doing was spying on the Major Crimes Unit for the bosses in Season 1, and even that was just a private "listen up, you piece of poo poo" speech from Daniels.

Daniels had written evidence that could be used to blackmail him, but I don't think Carver has anything similar; he might survive if he plays the game well enough.

I was just about to bring this up. Carver, as far as we're aware, never had any written evidence against him. Daniels was in a much worse situation after he moved from the Eastern District with an FBI investigation forever hanging over him.

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Lugaloco posted:

I was just about to bring this up. Carver, as far as we're aware, never had any written evidence against him. Daniels was in a much worse situation after he moved from the Eastern District with an FBI investigation forever hanging over him.

Well, there never was enough evidence against Daniels to bring charges, but enough to smoke him out. Being the drug enforcement sergeant in the district that basically legalized drugs isn't going to win any votes is it?

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


I really don't think Carver's situation is really the same as Daniels. Carver has nothing on him, nothing that anybody could really use.

Daniels thought he and Herc had stolen money, but that money was returned in the end and I very much doubt Daniels reported it, nobody would even know about it except those three.

"Fuzzy Dunlop", Herc took the fall for that, if Carver was implicated at all internal affairs would have done something about it at the time, again I bet his name isn't anywhere near it.

"Hamsterdam", again Bunny Colvin very publicly took the fall there. Daniels having his bank account searched is very different to Carver just being employed at the same time as a Major went rogue.

Daniels file held the results of an FBI investigation where they even went into his bank accounts, thats a different level to the spurious things we can connect to Carver from watching the show.

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



bucketybuck posted:

I really don't think Carver's situation is really the same as Daniels. Carver has nothing on him, nothing that anybody could really use.

Daniels thought he and Herc had stolen money, but that money was returned in the end and I very much doubt Daniels reported it, nobody would even know about it except those three.

"Fuzzy Dunlop", Herc took the fall for that, if Carver was implicated at all internal affairs would have done something about it at the time, again I bet his name isn't anywhere near it.

"Hamsterdam", again Bunny Colvin very publicly took the fall there. Daniels having his bank account searched is very different to Carver just being employed at the same time as a Major went rogue.

Daniels file held the results of an FBI investigation where they even went into his bank accounts, thats a different level to the spurious things we can connect to Carver from watching the show.

I tend to agree to a point, but political weapon is not the same thing as legal charge.

I do not want to be a spoilsport, I really liked the Carver story-arch. However, without the aspect of being "somewhat tainted because of being in the system" goes against many things David Simon tends to promote in his work: institutions do not work for most of the time, and institutions cannot change because working for one makes you follower of the institution's rules, or makes you an outcast who cannot affect the way things work beyond personal level. Also, in politics, something like "being soft on crime" makes you weak: Carver allowed Hamsterdam to happen on his district, therefore he is incompetent or unwilling to stand up against "criminal behavior", no matter who took the blame originally.

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011


I tried browsing through the S2 part of the threat but didn't see this mentioned:
almost all the important Poles in S2 use a shortened version of their birth name:
Stannislaus Valcheck = Stan
Francis Sobotka = Frank
Nicholas Sobotka = Nick
Except Ziggy, who's given name isn't actually Zigismund. He's just trying to fit in.

willemw
Sep 30, 2006
very much so

I know that all the pieces matter, but lots of people don't use their birthname, Polish or not. Beadie for Beatrice, Vondas is supposedly called Vondopoulos etc. I suppose McNulty is called James. Heck even Ed Burns is really Edward.

There's also Thomas Pakusa, who is usually referred to by his nickname "Horseface", or even just "Horse", so a shortened version of his nickname :)



("Preston" :) )

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


willemw posted:

I know that all the pieces matter, but lots of people don't use their birthname, Polish or not. Beadie for Beatrice, Vondas is supposedly called Vondopoulos etc. I suppose McNulty is called James. Heck even Ed Burns is really Edward.

There's also Thomas Pakusa, who is usually referred to by his nickname "Horseface", or even just "Horse", so a shortened version of his nickname :)



("Preston" :) )

Maybe "Bird" is short for Birdavious

Hard Clumping
Mar 19, 2008

Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS


willemw posted:

I know that all the pieces matter, but lots of people don't use their birthname, Polish or not. Beadie for Beatrice, Vondas is supposedly called Vondopoulos etc. I suppose McNulty is called James. Heck even Ed Burns is really Edward.

There's also Thomas Pakusa, who is usually referred to by his nickname "Horseface", or even just "Horse", so a shortened version of his nickname :)



("Preston" :) )

No no, pretty sure what you are saying is complete horse poo poo (get it? like horseface) and only Polish people would dare sully their proud Catholic heritage by excising syllables. Pollack naming conventions are a major theme in The Wire and a conversation topic I hope to continue exploring in more depth.

Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Oct 8, 2014

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




I do think it's interesting that, despite the fact that Marlo has a street name ("Black," they say it like, once, in season 3, I think), he doesn't use it. I'm guessing it's meant to drive home the whole "my name is my name" thing.

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

I think it's because that's a pretty lovely street name.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Kevyn posted:

I think it's because that's a pretty lovely street name.

Worse than "fruit"?

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE


Better than Snot Boogie

KORNOLOGY
Aug 9, 2006


Does Avon have a nickname?

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012


Shredded Hen

KORNOLOGY posted:

Does Avon have a nickname?

Nah I don't think so

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


I think Stringer is a pretty sick street name, even though I have no idea what it could mean.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012


Shredded Hen

gingerberger posted:

I think Stringer is a pretty sick street name, even though I have no idea what it could mean.

Doesn't sound like it means anything beyond this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stringer_Bell) -

Wikipedia posted:

Stringer's name is a composite of two real Baltimore drug lords, Stringer Reed and Roland Bell.[3] His story bears many similarities to the life of Kenneth A. Jackson—specifically, his crossover from the illegal drug trade to legitimate business ownership and political contributions.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


He could've been Roland Reed.

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005



Where's Wallace, Rol?

I ran across The Wire FAQ on IMDB today and it's pretty interseting if you haven't read it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm

It explains a few things that were not outright explained in the series.

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.

He's named Stringy Bell in the original show proposal sent to HBO.

Geekslinger
Jan 30, 2005



UFOTofuTacoCat posted:


I ran across The Wire FAQ on IMDB today and it's pretty interseting if you haven't read it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm

It explains a few things that were not outright explained in the series.

This was interesting. I totally glossed over that fact in season 3 when Mouzone's guy goes in the gay bar looking for Omar and then it cuts to Rawls in the same bar. I even remember seeing it and wondering what he was doing there.

team overhead smash
Sep 2, 2006

Team-Forest-Tree-Dog:
Smashing your way into our hearts one skylight at a time

"Six hundred pages of rules, regulations, directives, orders.

...

If a commander can't find grounds for firing a saint in here...

The man has worked narcotics for six years and in narcotics there are no virgins."


Carver is different from Daniels. The dirt on him wouldn't be as iron clad but he wouldn't have the higher education to help him up to major or colonel in the first place. That doesn't really make a difference either way.

If you think lack of solid evidence would stop someone from busting him down or loving up his career, that's a sorry state of affairs and y'all need to go back and rewatch the seasons. Was it what was right that got Carver promoted to Sergeant? Or Herc? Or Daniels held back in S1 or promoted in S3? Of Freeman busted back to pawnshop for thirteen years (and four months)? Or Valcheck existing?

Individuals can make a difference, but alone they can't change the entire system. Carver would either have to stagnate at his current rank, start working the system the way his superiors want it to be worked or face getting canned. Simply being idealistic and right doesn't cut it. Him becoming a senior officer who holds to our idealistic standards is not a realistic future.

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE


I don't know that Carver would even know there's no evidence about it. All it takes is someone talking about it. Even if the accuser doesn't truly know Carver did or didn't, just the threat of it would probably make Carver pucker up a bit.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


Randy looks so much like R Kelly it freaks me out.

Strawman
Feb 9, 2008

Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.



gingerberger posted:

Randy looks so much like R Kelly it freaks me out.

At least Randy used a balloon to spray piss on a bunch of kids.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



grading essays nude posted:

I find the later half of season 5 gets better once the shock of McNulty's terrible Vic Mackey scheme

Wouldn't that indicate the main purpose of the scheme was to line McNulty's pockets? :v:

Finndo
Dec 27, 2005

Title Text goes here.


Geekslinger posted:

I even remember seeing it and wondering what he was doing there.

I'm willing to bet it's pretty much the same reason straight people go to bars!

Geekslinger
Jan 30, 2005



Finndo posted:

I'm willing to bet it's pretty much the same reason straight people go to bars!

What I meant is I never put two and two together. It was obviously a gay bar, but why Rawls would have been there was oblivious to slow me.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


Geekslinger posted:

What I meant is I never put two and two together. It was obviously a gay bar, but why Rawls would have been there was oblivious to slow me.

Maybe he's doing some "undercover investigation."

MrSlam
Apr 25, 2014

And there you sat, eating hamburgers while the world cried.

I've been marathoning Parks and Recreation lately and then I saw people in here talking about Rawls going to a gay bar.

Then it hit me, a The Office/Parks and Recreation style spinoff of the Baltimore PD.

Rawls is a put-upon commander who's out of the closet but nobody messes with him about it. He's like a mix between Dr Cox and Ron Swanson. Weekend nights he goes out clubbing in hot-pants.

You could recast the entire PD as comedic characters. Hell, even the drug-dealers if you're clever about it, although I guess you couldn't get away with the drug dealers talking to the camera.

e: If I had proper video-editing software, I'd actually re-edit the opening myself. :(

MrSlam fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Oct 14, 2014

Hard Clumping
Mar 19, 2008

Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS


MrSlam posted:

I've been marathoning Parks and Recreation lately and then I saw people in here talking about Rawls going to a gay bar.

Then it hit me, a The Office/Parks and Recreation style spinoff of the Baltimore PD.

Rawls is a put-upon commander who's out of the closet but nobody messes with him about it. He's like a mix between Dr Cox and Ron Swanson. Weekend nights he goes out clubbing in hot-pants.

You could recast the entire PD as comedic characters. Hell, even the drug-dealers if you're clever about it, although I guess you couldn't get away with the drug dealers talking to the camera.

I'm gonna get all up in your poo poo right now so feel free to just skip the following, but I had a lot of reactions to this so I'm just gonna put em all here in no particular order:

"You couldn't get away with drug dealers talking to the camera? You're aware that The Office/Parks&Rec aren't real documentaries, right?"

"Why recast? Any and all actors they picked for the wire have proven themselves wholly capable of both comedic and dramatic situations. The Wire can be funny as any straight-up comedy show, but its the show's juxtaposition between tonal levels of funny and serious that gives each level weight."

"Even in 2014, The Wire is notable for not stereotyping Rawls around his homosexuality. Rather than each gay character being automatically given a set of standard tropes like pretty much every other show/movie, Rawls is a Human Being with Traits like everyone else in the show. But sure, let's have him go clubbing in hot pants."

"Exactly what we need: a(nother) show which says that the way gay people are treated in the government positions is meant only for a chuckle. Great. And kooky wonko drug dealers too! The system is hilarious haha! Maybe we could take this a step further in the Parks&Rec direction and have ten minute segments each episode where all the jokes stop as we focus on the romance plot."

Not that The Office/Parks&Rec are bad, but god drat - and I thought The Wire/Breaking Bad argument was unfounded.

Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Oct 14, 2014

MrSlam
Apr 25, 2014

And there you sat, eating hamburgers while the world cried.

Alright, I get what you're saying. Yes, I'm aware that The Office and Parks and Recreation aren't documentaries. They're filmed like them as part of the style choice. Even in the shows there's no mention of the documentaries being made, but even still the style wouldn't mesh with the drug dealers because who films documentaries where they interview street-level dealers and kingpins?

I never said a drat thing about recasting anyone. I was imagining a comedic situation involving John Doman in hot-pants. Regardless of the fact that The Wire treats Rawls's sexuality in a mature realistic respective manner that most other shows should aspire to, I stand by the fact that the idea of John Doman in hot-pants is hilarious. He is so serious and seething all the time and the idea of him cutting loose in a bizarre campy (albeit stereotypically gay) way yet retaining his normally serious gently caress-you-attitude is a thing I find funny. I guess that makes me immature and homophobic or something.

I want to state something here. The situation is entirely made-up. It will never happen. It is purely hypothetical. It is so drat hypothetical that it can only exist in the psychic mindspace of those who think about it. I promise you Hard Clumping, that if I ever get hired at NBC or any other channel and via magic or time travel or an act of god I'm given the rights to The Wire I will never produce a terrible sitcom version of it. You have my word.

The idea of The Wire being remade in an inferior cable channel primetime sitcom format is funny joke to me because The Wire is so drat good to begin with. You say Parks and Recreation and The Office aren't bad, but in my opinion they're good for what they are; there are less funny sitcoms out there. But another part of the joke is that The Wire is so good that even as a Parks and Recreation-style sitcom it wouldn't be that bad. It might actually be naturally superior to what it's lampooning. The characters are so well-written that they could be recast into any format and they'd still retain their identity. I'm trying to compliment The Wire with a series of bad jokes.

Okonner
Dec 11, 2008

by exmarx


Just watch Brooklyn Nine Nine.

MrSlam
Apr 25, 2014

And there you sat, eating hamburgers while the world cried.

Okonner posted:

Just watch Brooklyn Nine Nine.

I'm convinced that after a certain point nobody finishes their backlog of shows to watch. I've reached that threshold where the universe keeps throwing new things on top of the pile. It's not like I can just say no to it, it's the universe.

gingerberger
Jun 20, 2014

Gotta love my Squirtle Swag


MrSlam posted:

I'm convinced that after a certain point nobody finishes their backlog of shows to watch. I've reached that threshold where the universe keeps throwing new things on top of the pile. It's not like I can just say no to it, it's the universe.

Quit your job and become a degenerate tv watcher.

The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Just noticed about halfway through Season 5 Episode 9 McNulty correctly uses the word evacuated in reference to the homeless guy making GBS threads himself. A nice callback to earlier in the season when Alma uses it incorrectly.

doug fuckey
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

I'm sure someone's pointed this out before, but I only just realized this:

Dostoevsky posted:

Once on Sunday, near evening, we happened to walk alongside a crowd of six drunken workers for fifteen paces. I suddenly became convinced that it is possible to express all thoughts and sensations – even a whole chain of reasoning – through a single short noun. One member of the group sharply and energetically pronounced a word, expressing his own scornful rejection of something they had been talking about, In response, another repeated [his same noun using an entirely different tone and sense, expressing serious doubt about the validity of the first speaker’s rejection. A third, suddenly becoming indignant with the first, sharply and heatedly entered into the conversation. He shouted the same noun at the first but with a sense that was abusive and reproachful. Here the second reentered, indignant with the third (i.e., the offender); he cautioned him: “Why did you fly in like that? We were talking calmly and in you come swearing.” He expressed this thought using the same venerable word, the name of a single object. His speech differed from the others only in that he raised his hand and took the third speaker by the shoulder. Suddenly a fourth speaker – the youngest who previously had been silent – discovered a solution to the difficulty that had initially given rise to the argument. He raised his hand in delight and shouted ... ."Eureka,.”.. “I found it, I found it!” No, not, “Eureka,” nor, “I found it”: he merely repeated that same noun, only the one word. But he said it with delight, a visage of ecstasy. This seemed too strong. The sixth, a sullen individual and the oldest in the group, did not like it. He quickly snubbed the naive delight of the younger. He turned to him and sullenly repeated that same noun – a noun forbidden to women – with a nasal base tone. His meaning was clear and precise: “What are you screaming about?.* Not saying another word, then, they repeated their pet word six times in sequence and understood each other completely.

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theCalamity
Oct 23, 2010

Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War


Alan Sepinwall will be hosting The Wire cast reunion tonight at 7:15 PM Eastern. A livestream is provided in the link.

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