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ManMythLegend
Aug 18, 2003

I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.


TVsVeryOwn posted:

So I'm taking my first trip to a climbing gym tomorrow. Assuming I like it, what kind of cross training should I be doing? Are there particularly good lifts to do? I know nothing of fitness and am a potato.

If you've never really worked out before, any beginner lifting plan will help you immensely (Such as Strong Lifts 5x5 or Starting Strength). I've changed things up with the new year and have started this plan supposedly designed for climbing fitness. It's ok depending on how weight equipment your potential climbing gym has.

Incoming Chinchilla posted:

In a similar vein, are there any recommended online resources for intermediate bouldering tips/tutorials. I feel like I'm at the limit of how far I can improve by just doing it on my own.

I'm certainly no expert, but I found that watching videos of better climbers helped me start to break through the V3 barrier as it give me new ideas about body positioning and what not.

I found that the Eric Karlsson Bouldering YouTube channel is pretty good for this because they also do a lot of beta discussion with each other on camera between attempts. I'm sure there are others.

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SwashedBuckles
Aug 10, 2007

Have at you!

Incoming Chinchilla posted:

In a similar vein, are there any recommended online resources for intermediate bouldering tips/tutorials. I feel like I'm at the limit of how far I can improve by just doing it on my own.

Search YouTube for Neil Greshamís masterclass videos; thereís a whole playlist of climbing technique tutorials that can really help, especially with overhangs.

interrodactyl
Nov 8, 2011

you have no dignity


TVsVeryOwn posted:

So I'm taking my first trip to a climbing gym tomorrow. Assuming I like it, what kind of cross training should I be doing? Are there particularly good lifts to do? I know nothing of fitness and am a potato.

The best way to improve at climbing when you start is to climb more. If you need to work on general fitness, consider some bodyweight routines or light lifting, but the most important thing when you start is to spend as much time on the wall as possible. There's no climbing specific training you should need to do for at least a year, unless you improve freakishly quickly.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Decent enough advice already, but also it's worth adding that losing weight will help immediately. So for crosstraining, cardio can help if it helps you slim down. Can't go wrong with cardio and core for crosstraining.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


armorer posted:

Decent enough advice already, but also it's worth adding that losing weight will help immediately. So for crosstraining, cardio can help if it helps you slim down. Can't go wrong with cardio and core for crosstraining.

I'll second this advice. Climb as much as you can and fill the space with cardio to keep your weight down.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Anecdotally, I'd add push-ups because otherwise I get tennis elbow something loving fierce if I climb more than once every two days while I'm still getting back into things. After awhile I can climb daily, but its really easy for me to overdo it without some kind of counter-balance.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



Neil Gresham's Masterclass series really helped me advance, even when I was a beginner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkfUqdr-0zk&list=PLBCRwO0FN0zMTqSfFW9SMbK2tncTrI25r

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Ravenfood posted:

Anecdotally, I'd add push-ups because otherwise I get tennis elbow something loving fierce if I climb more than once every two days while I'm still getting back into things. After awhile I can climb daily, but its really easy for me to overdo it without some kind of counter-balance.

This is also solid advice, of the sort that you don't know you need until your elbows hurt. Pushups/dips will help keep elbow tendon issues at bay. A lot of climbers just do pushups on the gym floor at the end of every climbing session.

canis minor
May 4, 2011



What about planks?

For me it was - go to the wall and practice the routes until you get better, which helped me in core area. Now I'm lifting and doing cardio to gain more endurance.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Core will help with weight transfer to your feet on overhung problems, but not without proper technique as well. If you are disproportionately bad at overhung boulder problems compared to vertical or slab problems at the same grade, then core and cave footwork will likely help that.

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


If you want to get better at climbing and it's literally your first time going, the most important thing to do is climb a bunch. Preferably bouldering because it will force you to start thinking about how to use your body more than top roping 5.9.

The Dirtyness
Sep 13, 2007


ManMythLegend posted:

If you've never really worked out before, any beginner lifting plan will help you immensely (Such as Strong Lifts 5x5 or Starting Strength). I've changed things up with the new year and have started this plan supposedly designed for climbing fitness. It's ok depending on how weight equipment your potential climbing gym has.

Do you do this workout after you climb at the gym? Or on days you don't climb? I'm trying to find a good balance between continuing to climb and improving technique but also getting stronger. I climb 3 days a week now usually for 2-2.5 hours per session including about 30-45 minutes of warming up on easy climbs, then I do a couple sets of planks and situps before I leave. I'm in the V3/V4 range and have some V5 projects. Been stuck at this level for a couple months. Already super lean so weight is not an issue.

Also going to second checking out Eric Karlsson's videos and the Neil Gresham Masterclass. Gresham's videos in particular really helped me step up my game when I first got started.

ManMythLegend
Aug 18, 2003

I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.


The Dirtyness posted:

Do you do this workout after you climb at the gym? Or on days you don't climb? I'm trying to find a good balance between continuing to climb and improving technique but also getting stronger. I climb 3 days a week now usually for 2-2.5 hours per session including about 30-45 minutes of warming up on easy climbs, then I do a couple sets of planks and situps before I leave. I'm in the V3/V4 range and have some V5 projects. Been stuck at this level for a couple months. Already super lean so weight is not an issue.

So I only get about an hour to an hour and half in the mornings to work out so I've been doing that routine for 30-45 minutes and then climbing for the remainder of the time. I find that I'm decently warmed up afterwards so I can kind of dig right in to the climbing without having to warm up on a bunch of easy problems. I'm in a Monday/Wednesday/Friday schedule and I try to get in one day during the weekend dedicated to just climbing for two to three hours.

I'm just now reaching the V4 level, but I've only been climbing since October. That said I think it's definitely helped as I feel the time it took me to be a reliable V4 climber is less then it took me to be a reliable V3 climber.

ManMythLegend
Aug 18, 2003

I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.


Also, related to my question about skin care on the last page or so, let me just say that establishing a dedicated hand-care routine has helped me immensely! My grip is better and I feel a lot more confident in really loading up weight on my hands without worrying they're going to rip apart. Simply filing off the dead skin on my finger tips so the good skin can get midsized and filing down the callouses after I shower and moisturizing a couple of times a day has really turned them around. Even after only a few weeks!

The Dirtyness
Sep 13, 2007


ManMythLegend posted:

So I only get about an hour to an hour and half in the mornings to work out so I've been doing that routine for 30-45 minutes and then climbing for the remainder of the time. I find that I'm decently warmed up afterwards so I can kind of dig right in to the climbing without having to warm up on a bunch of easy problems. I'm in a Monday/Wednesday/Friday schedule and I try to get in one day during the weekend dedicated to just climbing for two to three hours.

I'm just now reaching the V4 level, but I've only been climbing since October. That said I think it's definitely helped as I feel the time it took me to be a reliable V4 climber is less then it took me to be a reliable V3 climber.

Cool, thanks. I'll give it a shot.

TVsVeryOwn
Jan 9, 2011







Thread, I'm discouraged. My intro class was full of kids from the other campus of my college where they have free access to a bouldering gym. By the time I left (after about 90 minutes) I still needed help with my knot and barely felt like could belay with a Grigri. I don't know why I thought this was going to be easy, but I did.
I think I'm just going to look at getting fit for the next several months (I'm carrying around a pretty big spare tire) and try to jump back in when I'm on the other campus with the free gym in the fall.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

TVsVeryOwn posted:

Thread, I'm discouraged. My intro class was full of kids from the other campus of my college where they have free access to a bouldering gym. By the time I left (after about 90 minutes) I still needed help with my knot and barely felt like could belay with a Grigri. I don't know why I thought this was going to be easy, but I did.
I think I'm just going to look at getting fit for the next several months (I'm carrying around a pretty big spare tire) and try to jump back in when I'm on the other campus with the free gym in the fall.

The knot and belay technique you can learn pretty easily if you keep at it now. The spare tire will definitely make it harder to climb hard stuff, but you can still climb if you want. There are overweight folks at my gym who still boulder V3 and climb up to 5.10 or so.

Your plan is totally fine if that's what you want to do, but don't feel like that's your only option. If you want to climb, go climb!

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012



Also losing weight while climbing is super satisfying compared to losing weight while lifting, because you actually climb harder as you get lighter instead of stalling out on all your lifts. Definitely no need to get in shape to climb, get in shape by climbing.

interrodactyl
Nov 8, 2011

you have no dignity


TVsVeryOwn posted:

Thread, I'm discouraged. My intro class was full of kids from the other campus of my college where they have free access to a bouldering gym. By the time I left (after about 90 minutes) I still needed help with my knot and barely felt like could belay with a Grigri. I don't know why I thought this was going to be easy, but I did.
I think I'm just going to look at getting fit for the next several months (I'm carrying around a pretty big spare tire) and try to jump back in when I'm on the other campus with the free gym in the fall.

You're not going to get any better sooner by not climbing. It's not a race against other people - one nice thing about climbing is that it's very individual, and you'll find a lot of satisfaction in progressing. Stick with it; I promise it'll be worth it.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



M. Night Skymall posted:

Also losing weight while climbing is super satisfying compared to losing weight while lifting, because you actually climb harder as you get lighter instead of stalling out on all your lifts. Definitely no need to get in shape to climb, get in shape by climbing.

Eh, I noticed that my energy levels are way, way lower when I'm in the process of losing weight. Yeah, I can climb harder, but I get tired a lot faster too. Average length of my climbing sessions have gone from 90 minutes to 45-60 minutes.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


ManMythLegend posted:

If you've never really worked out before, any beginner lifting plan will help you immensely (Such as Strong Lifts 5x5 or Starting Strength). I've changed things up with the new year and have started this plan supposedly designed for climbing fitness. It's ok depending on how weight equipment your potential climbing gym has.

Not to pick on you, but I don't think this is a very good workout plan for climbing. A few of the exercises may be helpful, but they're not very specific to climbing. If you're just trying to get some general fitness that may have some marginal cross-over to climbing, ok -- but if you're looking for climbing-specific supplemental exercises, I don't like this plan.

I don't have a specific set of exercises I'd recommend, but I'd start by browsing climbing-specific websites like the climbharder subreddit, RockClimbersTrainingManual.com, and LatticeTraining.com. This article could be a good starting point: https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2013/09/16/whole-body-strength-training/

Taking a step back, and as others have alluded to, I don't think a new climber really needs to do much in terms of supplemental strength training. Climbing does require upper body (especially the forearms/fingers) and core fitness, but it also requires technique and movement skills. Early on, the best way to train all of the above is just by climbing as much different types of routes as you can. Eventually, you might realize that your butt always sags when you climb overhangs, or that you can't hold onto the grips once they get really small -- then you might want to explore supplemental strength training for your core or your fingers*, respectively.

Once you get to the point where you know that you like climbing enough that you want to devote enough time to it to not only spend multiple hours at the climbing gym (or hopefully, at the crag outdoors!) per week, but also spend even more time doing supplemental training, you still might want to think twice about strength training. Climbing can place a lot of weird stresses on the shoulders, and can require a lot of flexibility/mobility in the lower body, particularly hips. A lot of us are mostly-sedentary desk jockeys, and we probably come to climbing with suboptimal mobility/flexibility. If that's you, then you'd probably be better off spending any extra time you have for supplemental training focusing on hip and shoulder mobility/flexibility as opposed to strength training.



*I'm actually a big advocate for starting finger strength training as soon as you realize that you're addicted to climbing and that training is right for you, since finger strength is so important for getting better at climbing and takes a long time to build. If you get into climbing and start reading more about training for climbing, you'll hear a lot of things like "you shouldn't train finger strength until you've been climbing [arbitrary amount of time] or are climbing at [arbitrary difficulty level]", which is not really true IMO. That said, I wouldn't recommend finger strength training for someone who hasn't even gone to the gym once yet -- I think it's a decision to be made once you've realized you're hopelessly obsessed and willing to suffer for the sake of improving at climbing. Whether this realization happens after 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, etc. comes down to the individual.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



I'm in the market for a new pair of climbing shoes. Looking for intermediate level, a mix of comfort and aggressiveness. Basically I want a pair I can walk around in and keep wearing during the entire climbing session, but will still allow me to tackle some of the smaller footholds on the harder routes.

I should mention I primarily boulder indoors. My budget is $120 or so.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

What shoes do you currently have?

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



armorer posted:

What shoes do you currently have?

I have a pair of La Sportivas that I bought about 10 years ago, but started using regularly only 6 months ago. The soles are starting to come off, so my plan is to get them resoled and then use them as my "casual" climbing shoes, and have a more "serious" pair for when I'm working on harder problems.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

I would try and stretch the budget a bit and pick up a pair of Anasazis. I'm not sure I would be comfortable walking around in them for an entire session though.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

With any "proper" aggressive shoe, you'll want to pull it off in between problems. I can leave my miura vs on for a little while, but I generally pull them off between problems and they're really pretty uncomfortable.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



Baronash posted:

I would try and stretch the budget a bit and pick up a pair of Anasazis. I'm not sure I would be comfortable walking around in them for an entire session though.

armorer posted:

With any "proper" aggressive shoe, you'll want to pull it off in between problems. I can leave my miura vs on for a little while, but I generally pull them off between problems and they're really pretty uncomfortable.

I guess that's OK as long as they have velcros and not laces. The issue is that laces offer greater control over how tight various parts of the shoe are, but they take a while to tighten and tie. So I'm a bit torn.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

enraged_camel posted:

I guess that's OK as long as they have velcros and not laces. The issue is that laces offer greater control over how tight various parts of the shoe are, but they take a while to tighten and tie. So I'm a bit torn.

That's why I have lace ups for multipitch and Velcro for everything else!

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


enraged_camel posted:

I'm in the market for a new pair of climbing shoes. Looking for intermediate level, a mix of comfort and aggressiveness. Basically I want a pair I can walk around in and keep wearing during the entire climbing session, but will still allow me to tackle some of the smaller footholds on the harder routes.

I should mention I primarily boulder indoors. My budget is $120 or so.

Something that fits your foot well is the most important thing, so try to find a local climbing shop and try a bunch of stuff on, looking for the most glove-like fit. If there isnít a climbing shop, maybe a retail section of your gym. A place lol REI is a last resort due to such limited selection.

If they fit, I donít think you can go wrong with Sportiva Miura laces as an excellent all around performance shoe. Itís not super aggressive, but has a slight downturn and can handle just about any terrain/style. And theyíre on sale here, along with other LS shoes: http://www.backcountrygear.com/la-sportiva-climbing-shoes/clearance/yes.html

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


For me, 'comfortable enough to walk in' and 'can take small footholds' are mutually exclusive but I have a morton's toe which makes the whole issue worse.

I have learned over time that if I buy the absolute closest fitting pair of shoes I can stand up in without being completely crippled then by the time they've broken in they're at least semi comfortable. Every pair of shoes which felt 'just right' from the store ended up becoming baggy and useless over time.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



I would look at these shoes: http://www.trango.com/p-341-tanta.aspx

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



Thanks for the recommendations. I'm hoping my local gym has them for trying on before I order a pair online.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

enraged_camel posted:

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm hoping my local gym has them for trying on before I order a pair online.

Zappos has free two way shipping, if you can't find a good selection nearby.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Not to pick on you, but I don't think this is a very good workout plan for climbing. A few of the exercises may be helpful, but they're not very specific to climbing. If you're just trying to get some general fitness that may have some marginal cross-over to climbing, ok -- but if you're looking for climbing-specific supplemental exercises, I don't like this plan.

I don't have a specific set of exercises I'd recommend, but I'd start by browsing climbing-specific websites like the climbharder subreddit, RockClimbersTrainingManual.com, and LatticeTraining.com. This article could be a good starting point: https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2013/09/16/whole-body-strength-training/

Taking a step back, and as others have alluded to, I don't think a new climber really needs to do much in terms of supplemental strength training. Climbing does require upper body (especially the forearms/fingers) and core fitness, but it also requires technique and movement skills. Early on, the best way to train all of the above is just by climbing as much different types of routes as you can. Eventually, you might realize that your butt always sags when you climb overhangs, or that you can't hold onto the grips once they get really small -- then you might want to explore supplemental strength training for your core or your fingers*, respectively.

Once you get to the point where you know that you like climbing enough that you want to devote enough time to it to not only spend multiple hours at the climbing gym (or hopefully, at the crag outdoors!) per week, but also spend even more time doing supplemental training, you still might want to think twice about strength training. Climbing can place a lot of weird stresses on the shoulders, and can require a lot of flexibility/mobility in the lower body, particularly hips. A lot of us are mostly-sedentary desk jockeys, and we probably come to climbing with suboptimal mobility/flexibility. If that's you, then you'd probably be better off spending any extra time you have for supplemental training focusing on hip and shoulder mobility/flexibility as opposed to strength training.



*I'm actually a big advocate for starting finger strength training as soon as you realize that you're addicted to climbing and that training is right for you, since finger strength is so important for getting better at climbing and takes a long time to build. If you get into climbing and start reading more about training for climbing, you'll hear a lot of things like "you shouldn't train finger strength until you've been climbing [arbitrary amount of time] or are climbing at [arbitrary difficulty level]", which is not really true IMO. That said, I wouldn't recommend finger strength training for someone who hasn't even gone to the gym once yet -- I think it's a decision to be made once you've realized you're hopelessly obsessed and willing to suffer for the sake of improving at climbing. Whether this realization happens after 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, etc. comes down to the individual.

100% agree with this post, almost verbatim my thoughts on the matter that I was too lazy to type out.

Re shoe talk: Miura VS could be a good option too, the older versions are on sale fairly often.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



E: I suck at simple things

Ubiquitus fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jan 16, 2018

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


RabidWeasel posted:

Every pair of shoes which felt 'just right' from the store ended up becoming baggy and useless over time.

Fair point, but worth noting that the amount shoes stretch during break in can vary tremendously based on how the shoe is constructed. Once you find the pair that fits best, worth doing some Google-fu to find out how much hey stretch and how much you should downsize.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



I tried some Miuras at the local REI. Size 42 was too small, and size 42.5 was too big... but only on my right foot.

Reviews say there is very little, if any, stretching during the break-in period, and pretty much none of it occurs along the length of the shoe.

Oh well, I guess I will order a 42 from Amazon and hope they accept returns.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

I have Miura VS, and they do stretch a (very) small amount at the top of the toe box. Basically that's the only spot not covered by rubber. I've broken in three pairs thus far, and they've all gone from being downright painful to put on at all to being mostly okay to keep on for several boulder problems. That said, I'm not going to confidently tell you that they'll stretch to something you're okay with, just that in my experience they have.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



Yeah, I'm just annoyed that my choice is between a size that is too small for both feet and a size that fits great on one but is too large on the other.

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Tots
Sep 2, 2007

:frogout:


Last year while in a finger pocket I got the dreaded pop in my forearm. I was out for like 3-4 months. Just last week the same thing happened again. It seems less bad this time, but I'm really aggravated about it.

Will I just never be able to climb anything with a finger pocket? Has anyone successfully trained up to a point where they could use finger pockets after sustaining these (tendon I think?) injuries?

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