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Walked
Apr 14, 2003



canvasbagfight posted:

Climbing my weakness of severe overhangs via 4x4 routine and resting on the wall has been amazing.

As I'm getting more into outdoors climbing, I'm looking into getting some decent approach shoes. I think I'm down to between the 5.10 Guide Tennies and La Sportiva Xplorers. Yes, I realize I probably don't need them. I still want them. Any thoughts? Am I missing a good alternative? I'd love some Gandas but I'm just looking to get my feet wet, here. Castle Rock was fine, but Pinnacles had a lot of hiking both to and down from routes with a lot of sketchy terrain for my sneakers.

I have the Scarpa Crux. They're GREAT and pretty fairly priced. Guy a climb with wears the Xplorers and seems to love them equally, so I think you're good to go regardless.

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jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

They are all just fashionable trainers any ways. Just get whatever you think looks cool.

ZeroDays
Feb 11, 2007

the fuck you know about what i need on my mind mother fucker

Is slipping off chips entirely a shoe thing? Or is there something I can do that'd actually help staying on chips? gently caress chips.

Edit: I use Evolv Defys, a "balanced" beginner shoe that I'm guessing isn't the best for staying on chips, but I don't want to be blaming shoes when it's just a matter of practice/working some weird muscle/technique.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

ZeroDays posted:

Is slipping off chips entirely a shoe thing? Or is there something I can do that'd actually help staying on chips? gently caress chips.

Edit: I use Evolv Defys, a "balanced" beginner shoe that I'm guessing isn't the best for staying on chips, but I don't want to be blaming shoes when it's just a matter of practice/working some weird muscle/technique.

Practice certainly helps with all aspects of climbing, but once I left my Defys behind, I stuck to chips a lot better.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Shoes can make a difference but I think that if you have sticky rubber then you should be able to climb it. Blaming shoes is for the weak.

pokchu
Aug 22, 2007
D:

Yeah, I've seen guys send V8s in approach shoes.

who cares
Jul 25, 2006

Doomsday Machine

I have been bouldering 2-3x a week for ~6 weeks now. I have started having issues with my wrists that seem to be related to moving beyond the ladder posture beginner problems to the slightly more difficult problems where I have to twist my body to get a hip into the wall... hopefully those descriptions make sense.

I have pain in my wrist joints that is most noticeable when I am on a the starting hold of a problem that starts with my weight offset to one side. It doesn't hurt when I am on the 45-degree wall where my arms are mostly straight. The day after climbing, I have a pain slightly below my wrist joint that feels worst when I move my hand towards the inside of my forearm. I decided on Monday that I need to take a break and haven't been back to the gym since then. I'm not going to go back until it feels 100% better.

Does anyone have any suggestions on wrist warmup exercises I could be doing? Does this sort of pain indicate any kind of obvious technique deficiency that I could be working on? Any other advice or ideas? I hate the feeling of wanting to climb but knowing that I need to wait!

Covert Ops Wizard
Dec 27, 2006



ZeroDays posted:

Is slipping off chips entirely a shoe thing? Or is there something I can do that'd actually help staying on chips? gently caress chips.

Edit: I use Evolv Defys, a "balanced" beginner shoe that I'm guessing isn't the best for staying on chips, but I don't want to be blaming shoes when it's just a matter of practice/working some weird muscle/technique.

I found my defys became rounded off and slippery pretty quick. Combine that with the synthetic material bacterial funk they're terrible shoes. If you've got the money and are serious about getting better some more aggressive shoes could be in order. While you could probably use better technique and get stronger and finish the problems you're struggling on in the defys, I personally don't get the condescension I've seen people get when they start wondering if better shoes would help when they're currently wrapping their feet in steaming bags of dog poo poo with no edge.

Besides, if these are your first shoes, you probably sized them too large to begin with, which will make you slide off chips like a motherfucker. It takes some trial and error to find the shoes that fit perfect. Remember, pain in breaking in your shoes is the norm, especially if they're a new to you style of shoe.

Covert Ops Wizard
Dec 27, 2006



who cares posted:

I have been bouldering 2-3x a week for ~6 weeks now. I have started having issues with my wrists that seem to be related to moving beyond the ladder posture beginner problems to the slightly more difficult problems where I have to twist my body to get a hip into the wall... hopefully those descriptions make sense.

I have pain in my wrist joints that is most noticeable when I am on a the starting hold of a problem that starts with my weight offset to one side. It doesn't hurt when I am on the 45-degree wall where my arms are mostly straight. The day after climbing, I have a pain slightly below my wrist joint that feels worst when I move my hand towards the inside of my forearm. I decided on Monday that I need to take a break and haven't been back to the gym since then. I'm not going to go back until it feels 100% better.

Does anyone have any suggestions on wrist warmup exercises I could be doing? Does this sort of pain indicate any kind of obvious technique deficiency that I could be working on? Any other advice or ideas? I hate the feeling of wanting to climb but knowing that I need to wait!

You are doing a very intense type of exercise to muscles and tendons that are wholly unused to it. Taking a break for a couple weeks or so is a great idea. If you're feeling pain the day after you definitely hurt something. Also, your schedule is pretty intense for a beginner, I was the same way and had more than a few injuries because of that. It's awesome to progress fast but for most of us there's a price to pay.

There's really no good stretch for your wrists and such, just make sure you do some very easy warm up climbs when you first start your session. Ease into your bouldering sesh every time and work your way up to the hard stuff. I also like to hang on an overhanging wall on a finish hold with my feet on for like 30 seconds, one hand then the other after finishing a V0/1/2 as my first warmup. Stretching is good but it probably won't help your wrists and elbows any.

Dooey
Jun 30, 2009


Just picked a pair of Sportiva TC Pro, looking forward to using them. Anyone else have a pair?

ZeroDays
Feb 11, 2007

the fuck you know about what i need on my mind mother fucker

Covert Ops Wizard posted:

I found my defys became rounded off and slippery pretty quick. Combine that with the synthetic material bacterial funk they're terrible shoes. If you've got the money and are serious about getting better some more aggressive shoes could be in order. While you could probably use better technique and get stronger and finish the problems you're struggling on in the defys, I personally don't get the condescension I've seen people get when they start wondering if better shoes would help when they're currently wrapping their feet in steaming bags of dog poo poo with no edge.
I've always heard shoes should be "uncomfortable, but not painful" (probably from this thread), whereas I can wear the Defys indefinitely, so I probably did oversize a little. Four full months of usage out of them 2-4 times a week means I've about paid for them in rentals, so I can purchase a new pair with no guilt, I reckon. But gently caress, what a choice.

Covert Ops Wizard
Dec 27, 2006



ZeroDays posted:

I've always heard shoes should be "uncomfortable, but not painful" (probably from this thread), whereas I can wear the Defys indefinitely, so I probably did oversize a little. Four full months of usage out of them 2-4 times a week means I've about paid for them in rentals, so I can purchase a new pair with no guilt, I reckon. But gently caress, what a choice.

After break in, yes. My shoes are uncomfortable to the point that I typically want them off as soon as I'm done climbing a route, but I don't notice while I'm on the wall. During break in however, the rubber would rub on the knuckles of my toes, the back of the heel dug in, and it was pretty miserable for a couple days. They are locked in so perfectly that I could leave them unstrapped and the heel cup would still be locked in as if it were vacuum sealed and my toes are locked in perfectly with no movement.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



I didn't mean to sound haughty about shoes. But when people ask me if any new gear ( in any of the sports I do) will make them better I kinda laugh. It could, but I like to look at technique first.

If they are worn out by all means upgrade though.

Stangg
Mar 17, 2009


spwrozek posted:

I didn't mean to sound haughty about shoes. But when people ask me if any new gear ( in any of the sports I do) will make them better I kinda laugh. It could, but I like to look at technique first.

If they are worn out by all means upgrade though.

Yeah the only time I've felt an actual difference thanks to a shoe is when I'm doing something narly like the beastmaker where having something really aggressive actually helped me stick the tiny edges. Otherwise I'm perfectly happy in my coyotes with enough room for socks.

This doesn't apply to when I need to edge where the hole in my shoe is though, sometimes it sticks but I'm probably losing some skin too.

pokchu
Aug 22, 2007
D:

I haven't seen much love for them here, but I absolutely swear by Scarpas. The Vapors go on sale pretty regularly still, and the Boostic is hands down the best shoe I've ever worn. I've heard some say they are dependent upon the shape of your feet, however.

Baldbeard
Mar 26, 2011



Blaming shoes for poor technique is definitely done way too much by newer climbers, but I feel like shoes do make a bigger difference than what I've been reading here. I find it very difficult to hold a heel-hook in a newer pair of shoes I bought on problems where I have zero issue with on my older pair. The newer shoe however has a way more aggressive arch and I can snipe footchips significantly easier. There's a guy who goes to my gym that regularly does V8 & V9, and he brings several pairs of shoes and mix/matches them to see what feels best on his main project. Literally a different shoe on each foot.

It's like crying about chalk, or a hold needing to be brushed in the gym. Those things are rarely the culprit of why you can't finish the route, but they do make vast differences to many people.

modig
Aug 20, 2002


Baldbeard posted:

Blaming shoes for poor technique is definitely done way too much by newer climbers, but I feel like shoes do make a bigger difference than what I've been reading here. I find it very difficult to hold a heel-hook in a newer pair of shoes I bought on problems where I have zero issue with on my older pair. The newer shoe however has a way more aggressive arch and I can snipe footchips significantly easier. There's a guy who goes to my gym that regularly does V8 & V9, and he brings several pairs of shoes and mix/matches them to see what feels best on his main project. Literally a different shoe on each foot.

It's like crying about chalk, or a hold needing to be brushed in the gym. Those things are rarely the culprit of why you can't finish the route, but they do make vast differences to many people.

V8/9 is beyond my current levels, so I can't comment on myself at that level. But I do know I've seen a video of a guy climbing some hard outdoor problem with one shoe and one bare foot, since apparently the bare foot works better on one hold.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Totally a believer in brushed holds versus non. Not only do you get the Zen of brushing a hold and knowing that you well stick that much better. Brushing high traffic holds brings new life. Kinda like cleaning a muddy tire.

YourCreation
Jan 4, 2004

A little creative surgery helps turn a few sick pets into a new and improved friend!


My Red Chilli Durango's really just bend and slide off of small holds so I picked up a pair of the 5.10 Anasazi Blancos and they are beautiful.

canis minor
May 4, 2011



Today I've did my first 5a - so feeling pretty proud of myself :toot: Also did a 4c that I've been attempting for 2 weeks now, but that matters a little less.

(I'm still a wimp, but after a half a year of climbing I can see that I'm a little lesser of a wimp)

Frosty Mossman
Feb 17, 2011

"I Guess Somebody Fixed All the Problems" -- Confused Citizen


I've been bouldering infrequently as a side thing to parkour for a while now, but on Monday I managed to complete a couple of problems I'd never even considered before and it felt so amazing I just had to get back on the wall even after a pretty intense 3-hour parkour session today. Now my hands are raw and my forearms on fire. I think I'm hooked.

Anyway, what should I look for when buying shoes? So far I've just borrowed from the gym and used whatever's available and kinda fits, and haven't really got a feel for what I should be looking for.

Also, anywhere I could find info on common gripping technique? So far I've been able to progress with whatever feels natural, but it seems every problem I've yet to solve at the gym has holds I have no idea how to even approach.

Covert Ops Wizard
Dec 27, 2006



Sniper Party posted:

I've been bouldering infrequently as a side thing to parkour for a while now, but on Monday I managed to complete a couple of problems I'd never even considered before and it felt so amazing I just had to get back on the wall even after a pretty intense 3-hour parkour session today. Now my hands are raw and my forearms on fire. I think I'm hooked.

Anyway, what should I look for when buying shoes? So far I've just borrowed from the gym and used whatever's available and kinda fits, and haven't really got a feel for what I should be looking for.

Also, anywhere I could find info on common gripping technique? So far I've been able to progress with whatever feels natural, but it seems every problem I've yet to solve at the gym has holds I have no idea how to even approach.

Look up crimps (half and full), pinches and underclings to get an idea of your most used finger techniques. Honestly though, climbing is mostly footwork. Remember hands follow feet, when you're reaching with your left hand you want to be pushing off of your left foot. This typically means your left foot should be higher than your right. Also look up heel hooks and drop knees.

As for shoes go with whatever your gym has that's under $100 at this point. They're your first shoes, you're not going to know what a good fit feels like and are just gonna tear them apart with your beginner footwork anyway.

YourCreation posted:

My Red Chilli Durango's really just bend and slide off of small holds so I picked up a pair of the 5.10 Anasazi Blancos and they are beautiful.

Durangos are crap but very comfy. I have a pair I keep at the gym where I work so if I get off and want to climb they're right there, but I'm never like "Oh I wish I had my Durangos" if I go elsewhere.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

Covert Ops Wizard posted:

As for shoes go with whatever your gym has that's under $100 at this point. They're your first shoes, you're not going to know what a good fit feels like and are just gonna tear them apart with your beginner footwork anyway.


TBH it's really hard to find shoes for less than $100 these days. Even Defys run $89 before taxes.

Covert Ops Wizard
Dec 27, 2006



Speleothing posted:

TBH it's really hard to find shoes for less than $100 these days. Even Defys run $89 before taxes.

I'm sure you're right, I only wear miuras and I know they just went up in price last year about 20 bucks to like 160 or something. I change my number to 120.

Frosty Mossman
Feb 17, 2011

"I Guess Somebody Fixed All the Problems" -- Confused Citizen


Covert Ops Wizard posted:

Look up crimps (half and full), pinches and underclings to get an idea of your most used finger techniques. Honestly though, climbing is mostly footwork. Remember hands follow feet, when you're reaching with your left hand you want to be pushing off of your left foot. This typically means your left foot should be higher than your right. Also look up heel hooks and drop knees.
Thanks, those look like they're going to be very helpful. And yeah, I figure most of my problems stem from poor or nonexistent footwork. I'm so used to smooth concrete walls with no footholds I constantly forget to concentrate on my feet and they just end up supporting or balancing while my arms do most of the work.

Covert Ops Wizard posted:

As for shoes go with whatever your gym has that's under $100 at this point. They're your first shoes, you're not going to know what a good fit feels like and are just gonna tear them apart with your beginner footwork anyway.
So no particular brands or anything I should avoid? The pricing points are probably pretty different here in Finland, but I'll just grab a cheapish pair that doesn't murder my feet too much.

Stangg
Mar 17, 2009


Sniper Party posted:

Thanks, those look like they're going to be very helpful. And yeah, I figure most of my problems stem from poor or nonexistent footwork. I'm so used to smooth concrete walls with no footholds I constantly forget to concentrate on my feet and they just end up supporting or balancing while my arms do most of the work.

So no particular brands or anything I should avoid? The pricing points are probably pretty different here in Finland, but I'll just grab a cheapish pair that doesn't murder my feet too much.

Climbing shoes are a really personal thing, you could get a list of shoes people love and hate in this very forum and amongst your climbing friends and they will mostly be different. Go for something that feels tight on your feet, try them out if you can and don't bother with something aggressive if it's your first shoe. Evolv, FiveTen and La Sportiva all make shoes at a decent price point that will do the job just fine for a starter shoe.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

Avoid? I don't know what's available in Finland, so it's hard to say what cheap crap may be on the market.

Good brands are La Sportiva, Scarpa, Tenaya, 5.10, Evolv, and Red Chili. Most of them should be available in Europe (at least 4 of them are European companies).

Any good store will have a small wall for you to try them out on.

Covert Ops Wizard
Dec 27, 2006



Sniper Party posted:


So no particular brands or anything I should avoid? The pricing points are probably pretty different here in Finland, but I'll just grab a cheapish pair that doesn't murder my feet too much.

I have a personal hate for evolve (they get very stinky) and swear by muiras but as stangg says its a very personal thing.


Just don't be like the guy I just met who likes a little slop to his shoe. I think he's an idiot who has baby feet and has terrible footwork and I couldn't stop talking to him fast enough before he expounded more on his theory that the outside of the foot is the best spot to put on a jib because he could grip it with his toes. I guess I could have tried to educate him but he seemed like the kind of guy that would turn that into an argument. Uncomfortably tight shoes are the way to go.

brakeless
Apr 11, 2011

You're pretty sympathetic.
Smoke?

Sniper Party posted:

Thanks, those look like they're going to be very helpful. And yeah, I figure most of my problems stem from poor or nonexistent footwork. I'm so used to smooth concrete walls with no footholds I constantly forget to concentrate on my feet and they just end up supporting or balancing while my arms do most of the work.

So no particular brands or anything I should avoid? The pricing points are probably pretty different here in Finland, but I'll just grab a cheapish pair that doesn't murder my feet too much.

It has been said, but it's really not so much about the shoe for a beginner and more about the sizing. Any spare room between your toes and the shoe shouldn't be there. A brand new pair should push your toes in at least a little. Get a pair with velcro straps to make giving relief to your feet easier.

If you're in the Helsinki region and in need of climbing buddies, I can hook you up.

Frosty Mossman
Feb 17, 2011

"I Guess Somebody Fixed All the Problems" -- Confused Citizen


Covert Ops Wizard posted:

I have a personal hate for evolve (they get very stinky) and swear by muiras but as stangg says its a very personal thing.
Yeah I'm going to steer clear of evolves, then. Foot odour is not a thing I particularly like.

Covert Ops Wizard posted:

Just don't be like the guy I just met who likes a little slop to his shoe. I think he's an idiot who has baby feet and has terrible footwork and I couldn't stop talking to him fast enough before he expounded more on his theory that the outside of the foot is the best spot to put on a jib because he could grip it with his toes. I guess I could have tried to educate him but he seemed like the kind of guy that would turn that into an argument. Uncomfortably tight shoes are the way to go.
I'm gonna one-up him and only climb barefoot because then I can wrap my toes around things better and also am entirely convinced my tendons are made of solid steel wire.

brakeless posted:

It has been said, but it's really not so much about the shoe for a beginner and more about the sizing. Any spare room between your toes and the shoe shouldn't be there. A brand new pair should push your toes in at least a little. Get a pair with velcro straps to make giving relief to your feet easier.

If you're in the Helsinki region and in need of climbing buddies, I can hook you up.
I am in Helsinki, yeah, but I'll be living in Turku for the summer because of work. Climbing buddies would be sweet while I'm in the area, though. I've been going to Parkourkeskus so far, which has an okay wall if you're just climbing on the side, but it's getting a bit limited now that I'd like to get more active with this.

brakeless
Apr 11, 2011

You're pretty sympathetic.
Smoke?

Sniper Party posted:

I am in Helsinki, yeah, but I'll be living in Turku for the summer because of work. Climbing buddies would be sweet while I'm in the area, though. I've been going to Parkourkeskus so far, which has an okay wall if you're just climbing on the side, but it's getting a bit limited now that I'd like to get more active with this.

I frequent the Caves in Pasila and Konala. Shoot me a mail at brakeless at hush dot com if you want to arrange something.

Frosty Mossman
Feb 17, 2011

"I Guess Somebody Fixed All the Problems" -- Confused Citizen


brakeless posted:

I frequent the Caves in Pasila and Konala. Shoot me a mail at brakeless at hush dot com if you want to arrange something.
I sent you an e-mail, you can edit your address out now if you want to.

canvasbagfight
Aug 20, 2005
renovating. please excuse our mess.

The guide tennies I ended up picking up are fantastic. As long as the footwork is not too thin or horizontal, I can easily climb 5.10- in them. Wish they had more ankle stability for the actual approach, but they climb remarkably well.

YourCreation
Jan 4, 2004

A little creative surgery helps turn a few sick pets into a new and improved friend!


Going climbing on real rock for the first time this weekend. Doing a three day trad course in Dartmoor with my university mountaineering club. Any words of wisdom to share for my first time?

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Have fun! Pay close attention to gear placements made by experienced climbers. If you are cleaning gear, look closely at where and how it was placed before you remove it. Ask yourself why it was put there instead of an inch to the right or left (or some other spot entirely). Tug outward on it, downward on it, sideways on it. See how it responds to those various forces.

You should be able to get a ton out of a three day course if you pay close attention and ask lots of questions.

remote control carnivore
May 6, 2009


First granite climb yesterday. My fingertips are all raw and one of my foot calluses sheared right off. :feelsgood:

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.





Finally took a class with the g/f after basically plateauing around 5.10. Could do up through 5.9 pretty easy, but only about 1/3 of all 5.10s were doable for me. The class focused on the basics of efficiency (lock your elbows, don't chicken wing, turn hip in toward the hand you're reaching with, etc). I'd already been pretty good at that stuff, so the stuff I really focused on was odd-positioning-balance.

Drop-knees, keeping knees bent to stay low, and locking into holds...that stuff's still pretty hard for me. Is a drop-knee supposed to make you feel like you're about to have some joint shatter?

Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO


Arm's still tweaked (think I've got two weeks to go before I can do some easy climbs) - now that the weather's warming up in Boulder, I'm thinking I want to go climb outside more whenever I'm healed enough.

I boulder almost exclusively-- does anyone have recommendations for crashpads that are somewhat transportable (and still effective at softening falls)? I'll probably end up hiking to spots with the crashpad on my back.

a foolish pianist
May 6, 2007

(bi)cyclic mutation



My Metolius pad is a reasonable size 4'x3'x3", and it's really lasted - I bought it in 2002, and the cover's still in decent enough shape. Had to replace the foam a while ago, but I went to grad school and started climbing less, so there's really only about 6 years of actual weekend-warrior wear on the thing. It's also sized so that two of them will act as floor padding for most two-man tents, which is a nice bonus.

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Irving
Jun 21, 2003


Anyone in southern California know when Sender One is opening? They've had some preview events, but I can't seem to find out when they're actually doing their grand opening.

http://www.senderoneclimbing.com/

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