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crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


Zephro posted:

So I think I picked up my first ever pulley injury, lol. All the symptoms suggest it's an A2 pulley tweak on the middle finger of my left hand. I was pulling hard at a crappy angle, felt something twinge, it swelled up a bit, any kind of crimping hurt afterwards, and gently squeezing the A2 hurt too. No loud popping like you sometimes hear in videos though.

Is it possible I've just stretched the pulley or something without actually tearing it at all? Or is it normal for it to feel healed way before it actually is?

This is totally possible and there's a whole spectrum of possible pulley injuries ranging from minor irritation to full on rupture, each with dramatically different recovery times. Unfortunately, as ~internet professionals~ it's impossible for anyone here to give you completely accurate advice. Ultimately the safest thing to do would be lay off it entirely, though cautious rehabilitation work and easy climbing would actually aid the healing process if done correctly. The tricky thing is that it's pretty easy to accidentally pull on a hold the wrong way, get psyched and try a less easy problem, or do something else where you end up stressing the tweaked pulley too far and injuring it worse.

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rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

Woof

rest his guts fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 23, 2020

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



What is "protecting" or "4x4"?

DrAlexanderTobacco
Jun 11, 2012

Help me find my true dharma


Sab669 posted:

What is "protecting" or "4x4"?

They said "projecting" specifically - a project is a tricky problem that you're unable to solve so you keep trying until you do.

tl;dr they were saying they should have trained less, and climbed more.

e: This is what 4x4 is

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Woops, I read it as proJecting but I clearly I just shouldn't post at 5AM when I first wake up :downs: I kind of figured it was just "something you can't do" but wasn't sure. Thanks :)

rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

4x4s are the go-to for 'power endurance' training but might not be the most efficacious as far as bouldering fitness is concerned. I think people like them because they feel pumped after.

Here's a really good video by Will Anglin (my personal vote for best dude in the industry) if you insist on training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puQPbkwDFyw#t=1s


DrAlexanderTobacco posted:

They said "projecting" specifically - a project is a tricky problem that you're unable to solve so you keep trying until you do.

tl;dr they were saying they should have trained less, and climbed more.

e: This is what 4x4 is

Basically yes. I'm fairly certain that most of us don't need to train until we are double digit boulderers and even then I'm not sure. Even with things like hangboards, it might be better to just climb the system wall or board (Moon, Tension) at a steep angle if you've got access to one. The benefit of the hangboard is that you can control the 'load', but honestly if your fingers are being destroyed at the mid-moderate - high-moderate grade you are likely not using your feet well or you are very heavy.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



rest his guts posted:

4x4s are the go-to for 'power endurance' training but might not be the most efficacious as far as bouldering fitness is concerned. I think people like them because they feel pumped after.

Here's a really good video by Will Anglin (my personal vote for best dude in the industry) if you insist on training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puQPbkwDFyw#t=1s


Basically yes. I'm fairly certain that most of us don't need to train until we are double digit boulderers and even then I'm not sure. Even with things like hangboards, it might be better to just climb the system wall or board (Moon, Tension) at a steep angle if you've got access to one. The benefit of the hangboard is that you can control the 'load', but honestly if your fingers are being destroyed at the mid-moderate - high-moderate grade you are likely not using your feet well or you are very heavy.

Is this post aimed at new climbers? If so I would agree, otherwise I'd have to completely disagree.

rest his guts posted:

4x4s are the go-to for 'power endurance' training but might not be the most efficacious as far as bouldering fitness is concerned. I think people like them because they feel pumped after.

Here's a really good video by Will Anglin (my personal vote for best dude in the industry) if you insist on training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puQPbkwDFyw#t=1s


Basically yes. I'm fairly certain that most of us don't need to train until we are double digit boulderers and even then I'm not sure. Even with things like hangboards, it might be better to just climb the system wall or board (Moon, Tension) at a steep angle if you've got access to one. The benefit of the hangboard is that you can control the 'load', but honestly if your fingers are being destroyed at the mid-moderate - high-moderate grade you are likely not using your feet well or you are very heavy.

Who is this post aimed at? If its climbers that have been climbing < 2 years or have bad technique, I would tend to agree that they shouldn't be doing specific training, but dismissing all training. . . :shepface:

The point of hangboarding isnt only that the load can be controlled, it's that specific angles that stress pulleys can be replicated consistently. That is how finger strength for different hold angles is built. Losing weight and improving footwork will most likely help 90% of people, but they are pieces to work on and developing finger strength can be done outside of those things.

I basically disagree with everything you said.

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Ubiquitus posted:

Is this post aimed at new climbers? If so I would agree, otherwise I'd have to completely disagree.


Who is this post aimed at? If its climbers that have been climbing < 2 years or have bad technique, I would posit they should be careful about what specific training they do, but dismissing all training is just . . . :shepface:

The point of hangboarding isnt only that the load can be controlled, it's that specific angles that stress pulleys can be replicated consistently. That is how finger strength for different hold angles is built. Losing weight and improving footwork will most likely help 90% of people, but they are pieces to work on and developing finger strength can be done outside of those things.

I basically disagree with everything you said.

BurningStone
Jun 3, 2011


I'm an absolute beginner at climbing. I know I'm never going to be able to climb anything without good technique (I have the trifecta: weak, overweight, and old). But I'm not even sure what good technique is. I've seem some scattered tips here and in other places but I'm not even sure how to tell if I'm doing it right or not. Any advice?

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010



BurningStone posted:

I'm an absolute beginner at climbing. I know I'm never going to be able to climb anything without good technique (I have the trifecta: weak, overweight, and old). But I'm not even sure what good technique is. I've seem some scattered tips here and in other places but I'm not even sure how to tell if I'm doing it right or not. Any advice?

Pickup ďSelf Coached ClimberĒ I consider it to be like reading Starting Stength when first starting to lift. Itíll get you up to speed on all the necessary concepts of climbing

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


I'm in the middle of sides on the training vs not training as a newer climber debate but want to note that Moonboarding (and maybe tension boarding) is a whole different beast than most people's experience of 'just climbing'. It's incredibly intensive on the fingers and a great way to develop power.

BurningStone
Jun 3, 2011


George H.W. oval office posted:

Pickup ďSelf Coached ClimberĒ I consider it to be like reading Starting Stength when first starting to lift. Itíll get you up to speed on all the necessary concepts of climbing

Thanks, Iíll give that a whirl

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



rest his guts posted:

I started working at a gym (obsessive) and though I was praised for progressing quickly I was also informed that I climb like poo poo by pretty much everyone. Basically, I'm strong (except not, because I am tall) not good. Even though I'd been 'training' (hang-boarding and antagonist work off the wall; skill work such as heavy feet, 'perfect repeats') I likely would have benefited from more time spent just projecting.

We get people like you sometimes in my meetup events: reasonably strong, but also tall (or just long limbs) so they can climb above their grade.

And they eventually start to get cocky. When that happens, I pull them aside and tell them: OK, itís time for you to start climbing like a short person. Meaning: no more skipping holds. No more reaching for things that the route setters clearly didnít intend to be within reach from a given position. Basically, the rule becomes: make use of every hold, even if (or especially if) you donít think you will need it.

And that is when people start to struggle, but also start actually improving their technique. And in the long run they become much better climbers.

Hauki
May 11, 2010




bouldered two days in a row and my wrists and elbows want to die

that is all

edit: also I feel like the route-setting/rating is getting closer between Golden & Englewood

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Hauki posted:

bouldered two days in a row and my wrists and elbows want to die

that is all

edit: also I feel like the route-setting/rating is getting closer between Golden & Englewood

So Englewood is bringing them down finally?

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



George H.W. oval office posted:

Pickup ďSelf Coached ClimberĒ I consider it to be like reading Starting Stength when first starting to lift. Itíll get you up to speed on all the necessary concepts of climbing

Rad. I've been watching that Masterclass climbing playlist someone linked earlier, and while it's informative I feel like I haven't really been able to figure out which technique to apply when/where, so more learning materials should be good.

Hauki
May 11, 2010




spwrozek posted:

So Englewood is bringing them down finally?

You mean in terms of grading?

Hauki
May 11, 2010




Sab669 posted:

Rad. I've been watching that Masterclass climbing playlist someone linked earlier, and while it's informative I feel like I haven't really been able to figure out which technique to apply when/where, so more learning materials should be good.

Iíve watched that series like several times over now, and it definitely helped me some, but Iím at a loss as to when to work in a backstep, heel hook/toe hook, etc.

Some of that fell in pretty naturally and some, like you, I have no idea how or when to apply.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Hauki posted:

You mean in terms of grading?

Si senor

Hauki
May 11, 2010





Yeah, I think itís gradual but as they rotate in new roped routes, they seem to be getting a little stiffer within the same grades.

As far as bouldering goes, they felt fairly similar today & yesterday within my tiny domain of v1-v3 plus the occasional go at a 4.

rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

Ubiquitus posted:

Is this post aimed at new climbers? If so I would agree, otherwise I'd have to completely disagree.

Who is this post aimed at? If its climbers that have been climbing < 2 years or have bad technique, I would tend to agree that they shouldn't be doing specific training, but dismissing all training. . . :shepface:

I basically disagree with everything you said.

I think I was openly reflecting about my own experience in a response to someone else who seems to be pretty 'strong' (from a grading perspective) out the gate and who seems inclined to turn climbing into training before he's even begun to understand anything about trying hard, body positioning and sequencing.

I am also sort of just relaying advice that much better climbers have given me over the past year. Most, though impressed by how inexperienced I am, were really dubious about training at my level. Many told me that training was 100% unneccesary until I'm into double digits. Things like the hangboard and campus board were developed by people trying to break into 5.14.

My head setter is one of the best all-around climber I've ever met and told me that I basically just need to spend 50% of my time projecting and the other 50% trying to onsight. Having come into the sport with a decent weight-lifting background, I think I might be guilty of generalizing some of the advice I've received. It's possible that many people are limited by strength at v5-7, especially if it's overhung, and that training might be a good idea for them. I still think that trying really hard on the problem will ultimately be better for you then trying to work your bent-over-row because you've convinced yourself that you're sagging too much or something.

Tots
Sep 2, 2007

:frogout:


Heyo chalky goons. Two questions:

1) Just moved to Rockville. Anyone climbing at ETRV?

2) If you could recommend one exercise to someone without knowing anything about them, something that is most likely to be beneficial to their climbing game, what would it be?

:coolspot:

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


Max hangs on a finger board

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Finally finished two separate V3's tonight! :dance:

That said, the one I really want to complete continues to elude me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWL22RH-IKw

It gets reset on the 4th, so I've got like 1 day left to try it unless I want to climb multiple days in a row which sounds like a bad idea :(

The two holds I have my hands on around 20 seconds in, whether I move my Left or my Right arm up... as soon as I let go of the hold at 20 seconds I fall off. No matter how hard I grip with my toes, try to pull my hips in etc...

Tots
Sep 2, 2007

:frogout:


crazycello posted:

Max hangs on a finger board

That I can do. Think a single max hang is good enough bang for the buck, or a couple sets?

I'm trying to strike a good balance with least amount of time added to my gym routine with maximum benefit. If anyone else has a good recipe here I'd love to hear it!

Tots
Sep 2, 2007

:frogout:


Sab669 posted:

Finally finished two separate V3's tonight! :dance:

That said, the one I really want to complete continues to elude me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWL22RH-IKw

It gets reset on the 4th, so I've got like 1 day left to try it unless I want to climb multiple days in a row which sounds like a bad idea :(

The two holds I have my hands on around 20 seconds in, whether I move my Left or my Right arm up... as soon as I let go of the hold at 20 seconds I fall off. No matter how hard I grip with my toes, try to pull my hips in etc...

Want beta?

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



I'd love any input at all :) I've talked to a few people, watched a few people do it and while I watch them I'm like, "Oh I get that" and then get I on the wall and it's just :psyduck:

Some people use those foot holds to the right, some don't.

The holds look pretty juggy but they're honestly super poo poo

Macnult
Jul 7, 2013


Tots posted:

Heyo chalky goons. Two questions:

1) Just moved to Rockville. Anyone climbing at ETRV?

2) If you could recommend one exercise to someone without knowing anything about them, something that is most likely to be beneficial to their climbing game, what would it be?

:coolspot:

1) Rockville Maryland? I mainly climb at Earth Treks Columbia but have been meaning to check out Rockville and Hampden.

2) Iím still new so this probably isnít helpful, but as dumb as it sounds the best thing Iíve had to help my climbing game is to just keep climbing. I exercise regularly but what I mostly pay attention to is not overexerting myself.



Speaking of new, I finally own my first pair of climbing shoes! Grabbed a pair of La Sportiva Mythos and Iím shocked by how much more comfortable they are than rentals. It also feels nice being able to trust footholds - finally worked a V4 that I kept slipping on, and even managed to knock out a 5.11

I love climbing progress but also canít wait to complain about plateauing

Tots
Sep 2, 2007

:frogout:


Macnult posted:

1) Rockville Maryland? I mainly climb at Earth Treks Columbia but have been meaning to check out Rockville and Hampden.

2) I’m still new so this probably isn’t helpful, but as dumb as it sounds the best thing I’ve had to help my climbing game is to just keep climbing. I exercise regularly but what I mostly pay attention to is not overexerting myself.



Speaking of new, I finally own my first pair of climbing shoes! Grabbed a pair of La Sportiva Mythos and I’m shocked by how much more comfortable they are than rentals. It also feels nice being able to trust footholds - finally worked a V4 that I kept slipping on, and even managed to knock out a 5.11

I love climbing progress but also can’t wait to complain about plateauing

Dangit, I just moved out of Columbia! Enjoy the gym there, it's my favorite ET. I still plan to get there on the occasional weekend, I'll drop you a line when I do.

Tots
Sep 2, 2007

:frogout:


Sab669 posted:

I'd love any input at all :) I've talked to a few people, watched a few people do it and while I watch them I'm like, "Oh I get that" and then get I on the wall and it's just :psyduck:

Some people use those foot holds to the right, some don't.

The holds look pretty juggy but they're honestly super poo poo

Grain of salt because I'm not a ~good climber~. Looks to me like you're frogged out and skipping holds. Flag out to the left, then grab the lowest hold above the over hang with your right, then move your left hand up.

https://imgur.com/a/XM3MAR8

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Sab669 posted:

I'd love any input at all :) I've talked to a few people, watched a few people do it and while I watch them I'm like, "Oh I get that" and then get I on the wall and it's just :psyduck:

Some people use those foot holds to the right, some don't.

The holds look pretty juggy but they're honestly super poo poo

From the video, it looks like your feet are too high. Keep your left foot lower by one or two holds, and flag your right foot to the right, then move your right hand up to the next hold.

You should feel your core engage to make that move, as a pose to scrunching your legs up

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



I've tried reaching from lower foot holds, getting higher up actually feels better (but maybe it's not actually better). I'll give that a shot on Sunday, but holy poo poo my arms are loving torched this morning - I don't think I'm going to be able to do this one :(

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


Tots posted:

That I can do. Think a single max hang is good enough bang for the buck, or a couple sets?

I'm trying to strike a good balance with least amount of time added to my gym routine with maximum benefit. If anyone else has a good recipe here I'd love to hear it!

3-5 sets of ~10s hangs with long (2-3min) rests is a good starting point. Waiting that long is annoying but you can stretch in between. Pick an edge size that you currently need to add weight for failure before 15s, then keep progressing weight until the amount you're strapping to your body is uncomfortable at which time you can switch to a smaller edge or one arm hangs. I find protocols like this more effective than endless repeater sets and easier to track progress.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010



Sab669 posted:

I've tried reaching from lower foot holds, getting higher up actually feels better (but maybe it's not actually better). I'll give that a shot on Sunday, but holy poo poo my arms are loving torched this morning - I don't think I'm going to be able to do this one :(

The biggest mistake is getting your center of gravity too high and that can be killer on an overhang. I agree with flagging out to the left and twisting up to reach to the right. You had good form doing that right at the beginning. It looks like there are a bunch of different ways to do this problem so that's cool but the key here is to keep that center of gravity lower and get that 3 points of contact.

If you can try just practicing moving your body around on that part where you fell off. Ideally you can have your left hand on the hold and be able to freely hang and pivot all over the place at least based on what I see.

Niyqor
Dec 1, 2003

Paid for by the meat council of America

Hauki posted:

I’ve watched that series like several times over now, and it definitely helped me some, but I’m at a loss as to when to work in a backstep, heel hook/toe hook, etc.

Some of that fell in pretty naturally and some, like you, I have no idea how or when to apply.


Try to force the movement and you'll start getting a better idea of when it is useful. It can be useful to find some very easy route or boulder and try climbing it multiple ways to see which movement feel better.

Also, make sure you are watching other climbers climb. Sometimes you'll see something and think "huh, I didn't realize movement like that could help."

Sound_man
Aug 25, 2004
Rocking to the 80s

Too much injury talk in this thread, needs more pictures









Other than my 2 day trip to Red River Gorge the weather has taken away most of my planned climbing days. We only got a day and a half on the wall (out of 5) in Denver and the forecast was iffy for the most recent trip to Devils Lake so my partner bailed. I met up with my friend and got a few pitches in but conditions weren't great. A bit warmer than my trip there in April but the approaches were a bit slick. Full album https://imgur.com/a/K1rEzE7

Sound_man fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jun 1, 2019

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007



My "sandbagged" gym decided to significantly up the difficulty on everything.

It's hilarious to see people utterly fail to even start "V5s" (:rolleyes:) that they could breeze through effortlessly before.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Sound_man posted:

needs more pictures

is it common to go barefoot?

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Sab669 posted:

is it common to go barefoot?

No

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Sound_man
Aug 25, 2004
Rocking to the 80s


although not unheard of https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/106815114

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