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armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Sab669 posted:

I suppose this might be impossible to give a hard 'yes/no' answer to, but if it rains the day before my outdoor climbing trip should I just cancel it? Weather is calling for rain Thursday night (I'm hoping to go Friday morning) :ohdear:

Depends on a lot of things. In most places though if it rains heavily the night before, it'll still be wet in the morning.

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Jester Mcgee
Mar 28, 2010

A lot of things have happened to me over my life.



Well here is another weather hypothetical. It's supposed to be "scattered thunderstorms" Thursday through Sunday at the Red River Gorge, which just so happens to be when I am supposed to head out there. Think I'll be able to get on anything? Or should I just resign myself to drinking and hiking?

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Jester Mcgee posted:

Well here is another weather hypothetical. It's supposed to be "scattered thunderstorms" Thursday through Sunday at the Red River Gorge, which just so happens to be when I am supposed to head out there. Think I'll be able to get on anything? Or should I just resign myself to drinking and hiking?

That's pretty common out there in my experience, and if it says 50%, it's really 50%. One crag might get dumped on and another might stay dry all day. If you're there, may as well try your luck.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Jester Mcgee posted:

Well here is another weather hypothetical. It's supposed to be "scattered thunderstorms" Thursday through Sunday at the Red River Gorge, which just so happens to be when I am supposed to head out there. Think I'll be able to get on anything? Or should I just resign myself to drinking and hiking?

The red is the ultimate climb in the rain area. Nothing like pulling through the cave as it is really coming down. Most likely it is just going to be hot and humid. You should be able to climb most of the time. If it has been raining a lot over the last few weeks the rock may be seeping water though.

For the other guy, where are you climbing? It depends on a few things. Soft desert sandstone, do not climb, front range CO everything will be good to go.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



spwrozek posted:

For the other guy, where are you climbing? It depends on a few things. Soft desert sandstone, do not climb, front range CO everything will be good to go.

https://www.niagaraparks.com/visit-niagara-parks/nature-activities/bouldering/

This little place just off the Niagara River in Canada.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.


I'm not sure what type of rock that is, but the photos make it look like it would take a full day or more to dry out after a solid rain storm. How fast a place dries out depends largely on sun and wind exposure, so boulders in the forest will dry out a lot slower than a south facing exposed cliff face along a river.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy




As mentioned that will be hard to say is it will be worth it. Depending on how far you are traveling would probably shape my decision. Also watch the weather and make sure it actually rained. Check in with locals on MP or something

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



What's "MP"? And it's only about a 40 minute drive - not too far.

I'm not sure what kind of rock either; I know there's a ton of shale in this region though. But yea between forest and virtually being on a high-flow river I imagine it's probably fairly humid in general, which I imagine wouldn't help. Butts.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Sab669 posted:

What's "MP"? And it's only about a 40 minute drive - not too far.

I'm not sure what kind of rock either; I know there's a ton of shale in this region though. But yea between forest and virtually being on a high-flow river I imagine it's probably fairly humid in general, which I imagine wouldn't help. Butts.

Mountainproject.com - a good place to ask about local conditions. Also there may be a Facebook group of people who boulder there. If there is, that might get you a faster reply than MP.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



If it is only 40 min unless it just poured rain all day I would just go and see

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Do you have a radar app? I like storm or NOAA weather, you can even plug in long/lat to get the specific area you need to see what happened

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



It's only 17 miles north of where I live, I'll just keep an eye on it. Seems reasonable that if it rains where I am it probably hit there, too.

The big hassle is just crossing over the border (or rather, coming back into the US :rolleyes:). I guess worst case scenario I do a little hiking / get a look over at everything before I go again.

e; Looking over this place on MP, really cool to see some photos of different boulders.



...But climbing indoors exclusively it's going to be scary as gently caress falling onto a tiny little 5" thick mat compared to the, like, foot-thick stuff that's everywhere around the gym :v:

double edit; I think it's primarily limestone?

Sab669 fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 1, 2019

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Wet limestone will be pretty slick, and some limestone can be brittle when wet, whereas some is totally fine. So that's a thing I'd look into before climbing on it. It's super bad form to break stuff off by climbing on wet rock. So even though the safety concerns are less than lead climbing wet rock, you don't want to be the rear end in a top hat that tears off a key hand hold.

In the desert on sandstone, the general rule of thumb is that it's okay to climb after rain if the ground around the base is completely dry. That usually take 24 to 48 hours.

rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

Headed to Squamish for five days later this week. First time, taking all suggestions V4-7 - prefer big holds and big moves/straight up compression. Definitely gonna check out Minor Threat and The Fuzz.

Bud Manstrong
Dec 11, 2003

The Curse of the Flying Criosphinx


rest his guts posted:

Headed to Squamish for five days later this week. First time, taking all suggestions V4-7 - prefer big holds and big moves/straight up compression. Definitely gonna check out Minor Threat and The Fuzz.

If its not too much trouble Id love to hear what you climbed and how you liked it afterwards. Were going in September.

japtor
Oct 28, 2005


Sab669 posted:

e; Looking over this place on MP, really cool to see some photos of different boulders.



...But climbing indoors exclusively it's going to be scary as gently caress falling onto a tiny little 5" thick mat compared to the, like, foot-thick stuff that's everywhere around the gym :v:
I dont think Id even climb that at a gym :v: (bouldering has not been kind to my body)

armorer posted:

It's super bad form to break stuff off by climbing on wet rock.
Related etiquette question, how about super loose stuff on dry rock? If I actually used it I wouldve ripped it out (grabbed it for a sec and had an oh poo poo moment) but left it there and just warned everyone else after me.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

japtor posted:

Related etiquette question, how about super loose stuff on dry rock? If I actually used it I would’ve ripped it out (grabbed it for a sec and had an oh poo poo moment) but left it there and just warned everyone else after me.

Sort of area dependent, but generally fine. If you're going to pull something off though you need to be 100% positive that it won't hit anyone or dislodge anything on the way down. Usually that's not possible, so people leave it and mark it with a chalk X if it's big or something that someone else might be inclined to grab ahold of.

Guide books will often warn about this in newer areas, because the routes haven't been up long enough to have been well "cleaned".

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011



Heading to smith rock in a few days . . . Any suggestions for sport stuff that won't be swamped but is still good quality?

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite

It's not prime season, so it shouldn't be too busy. It will be hot, I'd be optimizing your day around chasing shade. The Morning Glory and Dihedrals are going to feel quite greasy. Stuff in Aggro/Cocaine Gully should be ok in the afternoon/evening. Zebra-Zion is a classic multipitch. Definitely do a route that gets you on the Monkey and at least to the mouth ledge (the aid ladder is not bad). The basalt stuff on the North Rim is worth checking out too, I recall it being ok in the mornings.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



So I happened to find a video on youtube of the Niagara Glen area, and while the dudes were climbing it started raining. One of them commented that Limestone was ok to climb on when wet (although more difficult, obviously). This video was on Andrew MacFarlane's youtube channel - don't really know who he is but I see his channel come up regularly :)

I did a little searching around and found this site which says:

quote:

Limestone: Perfect Sports Climbing Rock

Limestone, another type of sedimentary rock, forms under different circumstances than sandstones. Limestone, forming about 10% of the worlds sedimentary rocks, are formed underwater in ancient coral reefs and from shells and skeletal fragments of living organisms. Living reefs are diverse and unique, qualities which form different kinds of limestones which provide different kinds of climbing experiences. Limestone is composed of aragonite and calcite, forms of calcium carbonate, silica, as well as very fine water-borne sediment like clay, silt, and sand. Limestone is usually very well cemented, forming a hard durable surface for climbing, and is generally erosion resistant so it forms long cliff bands. Limestone slowly dissolves in acid, including rainfall which is naturally acidic, hence most American limestone cliffs have fewer solution pockets than those in Europe. Limestone forms vertical and overhanging cliffs, which are perfect for sports climbing, as well as caves.

Bolded text makes me think it should be OK to climb on if it does rain a little bit over night Thursday into Friday?

Not particularly related, but what does the italicized text mean? (second to last sentence)

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


Just climb and go have some fun. If it's wet at least you got some exercise on the approach.

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005


Fallen Rib

Sab669 posted:

I did a little searching around and found this site which says:
...
Limestone slowly dissolves in acid, including rainfall which is naturally acidic, hence most American limestone cliffs have fewer solution pockets than those in Europe.
...
Not particularly related, but what does the italicized text mean? (second to last sentence)

Over here in Europe we have lots of rain which erodes our limestone by dissolving it (i.e. carrying it away in solution). I'd guess desert limestone in America is shaped by other means?
We get features like Karst, limestone pavement and potholes in our limestone because of this erosion. When the dissolved rock is deposited we get flowstone, stalactites and concretions.
This rainwashing means that the limestone is quite smooth and friction in wet conditions is terrifyingly poor. There's also the problem that after it's been raining for a month or two all these water pathways within the rock fill up and it seeps. Oh it seeps.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Endjinneer posted:

Over here in Europe we have lots of rain which erodes our limestone by dissolving it (i.e. carrying it away in solution). I'd guess desert limestone in America is shaped by other means?

I'm in the very temperate north-east, right on the US/Canadian border. No idea how much rain I get in comparison to most of Europe, but it's a pretty wet area. Especially this spring/summer. Definitely not desert! But maybe the rest of the US is different. I was thinking that paragraph meant the rain tended to be more acidic in Europe :shrug:


Endjinneer posted:

This rainwashing means that the limestone is quite smooth and friction in wet conditions is terrifyingly poor. There's also the problem that after it's been raining for a month or two all these water pathways within the rock fill up and it seeps. Oh it seeps.

That actually sounds really cool to see.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010



Pretty sure I gave my self a minor SLAP tear yesterday so thats fun. Rest and ibuprofen are the in my future for the next couple of weeks.

Shoulders suck and need to be better designed

rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

Bud Manstrong posted:

If its not too much trouble Id love to hear what you climbed and how you liked it afterwards. Were going in September.

We are now headed to City of Rocks since it's likely to be rained out. I'll probably get out there before September though so I'll let you know.

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite

Holy gently caress that's going to be hot.

rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

Looks like Saturday and Sunday are gonna be in the upper 70s/lower 80s so we'll try and do early morning/late night sessions. Hoping Thursday/Friday are okay; Thursday might not be because it's raining tonight.

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite

Checkered Demon usually gets a nice breeze in the evening. Good luck.

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005


Fallen Rib

Sab669 posted:

I'm in the very temperate north-east, right on the US/Canadian border. No idea how much rain I get in comparison to most of Europe, but it's a pretty wet area. Especially this spring/summer. Definitely not desert! But maybe the rest of the US is different. I was thinking that paragraph meant the rain tended to be more acidic in Europe :shrug:

...
That actually sounds really cool to see.

Here's a UK trad classic called Sirplum. The seepage usually means lots of vegetation and dust and spiders. There's an uneasy truce between climbers and the national trust about how much 'cleaning' the route is allowed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVOSupnBdv8

Malham cove is one of our premier sport climbing venues. The river that formed it now disappears into a sinkhole about two miles away, passes down behind the rock and wells up at the foot of the face. The darker patches of minging gungy slime indicate where the rock seeps the most.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malham_Cove

On the continent, Kalymnos is probably the most spectacular place I know of. Some of the flowstone is like climbing petrified broccoli.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxGUFjBoY7k

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



WELP. My buddy cancelled on me last minute, figured I'd go anyways because the roads were perfectly dry here so it didn't look like it rained at all. Load all my poo poo into the car, get there and it's still looking good. Throw on the crash pad, and then I just decided to "front mount" my backpack which had my shoes, water, food, bunch of other supplies etc.

By the time I go down the 6 flights of stairs to the start of the hiking trail and then actually get to the bouldering part of the trail I was absolutely COVERED in sweat. It was extremely humid under the trees, tons of bugs everywhere and I didn't think to pack bug spray. Find a rock I recognized from a video (couldn't really tell what's what from this PDF guide I found), slap on my shoes, position the pad... and realize I forgot my goddamn chalk in the car. And the rocks were kinda damp somehow. Maybe it rained earlier in the week? Don't know how long it takes to dry.

But yea, so I packed up my poo poo and then just walked around a little and left. Extremely disappointing, but oh well.

Also maybe outdoor climbing isn't the best for someone with borderline arachnophobia? :ohdear: I will go again, but make sure I don't forget anything / definitely not going alone.

BlancoNino
Apr 26, 2010


You will meet so, so many spider friends climbing outside, just learn to appreciate the cute little things :3:

At least you didn't hurt yourself on your lonesome.

Jester Mcgee
Mar 28, 2010

A lot of things have happened to me over my life.



I just got back from my first trip to the Red River Gorge. Climbed Thursday and Friday, then just chilled out yesterday because we were all wrecked. It was extremely hot and humid, but stayed almost entirely dry, so that's great! I learned to lead, lead belay, and clean routes, which opens up a ton of new stuff for me to do at my gym. Overall an extremely cool and fun experience.

Here is a video of my first ever lead fall. I'm falling off of a 5.10b Overlord. The fall was a bit scary because it was slab, and I caught my leg on the rope right at the bottom of the fall so I got a nasty rope burn, but it basically cured me of being afraid of any other fall while I was there. I did go on to complete it and was really happy :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIqP5-Z8EDs

Meaty Ore
Dec 17, 2011

My God, it's full of cat pictures!


Jester Mcgee posted:

I just got back from my first trip to the Red River Gorge. Climbed Thursday and Friday, then just chilled out yesterday because we were all wrecked. It was extremely hot and humid, but stayed almost entirely dry, so that's great! I learned to lead, lead belay, and clean routes, which opens up a ton of new stuff for me to do at my gym. Overall an extremely cool and fun experience.

Here is a video of my first ever lead fall. I'm falling off of a 5.10b Overlord. The fall was a bit scary because it was slab, and I caught my leg on the rope right at the bottom of the fall so I got a nasty rope burn, but it basically cured me of being afraid of any other fall while I was there. I did go on to complete it and was really happy :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIqP5-Z8EDs

I was just on that one about a month ago and nearly fell at that same point. What other routes did you do at that wall?

Jester Mcgee
Mar 28, 2010

A lot of things have happened to me over my life.



Meaty Ore posted:

I was just on that one about a month ago and nearly fell at that same point. What other routes did you do at that wall?

I did Pogue Ethics and Creature Feature. Both were extremely good. Really good routes to learn to lead on for sure.

magicalmako
Feb 13, 2005


Guys why are shoulders so fragile?

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004

I SHOULD GO AND GET FUCKED


Serious, not-intended-to-be-snarky answer: For 95%+ of people it's a rotator cuff weakness or anterior/posterior muscle imbalance.

Sigmund Fraud
Jul 31, 2005



magicalmako posted:

Guys why are shoulders so fragile?

Too much time infront of the computer, not enough time doing pushups. Forward rotated shoulders and muscle imbalance is kinda the norm for climbers tho so at least you're in good company.

rest his guts
Mar 3, 2013

...pls father forgive me
for my terrible post history...

My week in Idaho reaffirmed how important the mental game is. Guess it's time to read The Rock Warrior's Way.

Also, headed to Tyler Nelson's (C4HP) seminar on testing-protocols and how to interpret them to design your own training program on August 17th and 18th in BC. Syked as hell - hoping this gives my training a more focused quality. He has some really interesting ideas about how to train the core, tendons and on stretching, as well.

rest his guts fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 9, 2019

asur
Dec 28, 2012


Sigmund Fraud posted:

Too much time infront of the computer, not enough time doing pushups. Forward rotated shoulders and muscle imbalance is kinda the norm for climbers tho so at least you're in good company.

I'm confused here. Climbers should have stronger back and lats than normal which would help pull their shoulders back. Pushups would counter this climber imbalance, but seems like they'd exacerbate forward rotated shoulders.

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Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004

I SHOULD GO AND GET FUCKED


asur posted:

I'm confused here. Climbers should have stronger back and lats than normal which would help pull their shoulders back. Pushups would counter this climber imbalance, but seems like they'd exacerbate forward rotated shoulders.

This is correct.

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