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compton ass terry
Nov 20, 2006

Do you know where I'm from?

Nifty posted:

Fun trip to Red Rock NV this weekend


Pork Chop, v2/3. Fun movement and standing up on the left foot to reach for the left side of the arete is committing. Boulder looks like a pork chop obviously


Jack of all Trades, a v5. My new project. Left hand two finger pocket is sick. The rail feature I'm pinching is surreal. Starts matched on the crimp on the bottom right, with little slab-ish feet. I did all the moves individually, and by the time I figured out the beta it was starting to rain. Psyched to get it next trip

Heading to Vegas next month and plan on spending a day bouldering. Leaning towards Kraft right now.

Random, but is wearing socks in style right now? Seeing more and more people not in rental gear wearing socks lately.

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gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



compton rear end terry posted:

Random, but is wearing socks in style right now? Seeing more and more people not in rental gear wearing socks lately.
Probably thinking it deals with the stink.

I'd rather have sensitivity when placing on tiny edges and jibs.

Siamang
Nov 15, 2003


I climb in permethrin-treated socks outdoors because I'm terrified of Lyme disease and Pennsylvania is crawling with ticks. Thin socks don't really make a noticeable difference to me.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Are you there now? I just left this morning!

Edit: stupid phone posting. This was re: Kalymnos

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



compton rear end terry posted:

Heading to Vegas next month and plan on spending a day bouldering. Leaning towards Kraft right now.

Random, but is wearing socks in style right now? Seeing more and more people not in rental gear wearing socks lately.

I climbed in my mellow shoes with socks over Halloween on anything under 11a. It was just way too cold to not have socks on.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



FiestaDePantalones posted:

So I'm about to spend a week at the Red River Gorge, and my goal for the trip is to break through to leading 11. I've on sited plenty of 10+ at the New, just haven't gotten through 11 yet. Recommendations for routes/areas?

I would go on mountain project and search 10 and 11's with 3+ stars. You will get a nice list to look through.

If I could pick one route it would be Amarillo sunset but I haven't been able to make it over to it yet. It is supposed to be ultra classic.

MiamiKid
Dec 14, 2003


quote:

So I'm about to spend a week at the Red River Gorge, and my goal for the trip is to break through to leading 11. I've on sited plenty of 10+ at the New, just haven't gotten through 11 yet. Recommendations for routes/areas?

spwrozek posted:

I would go on mountain project and search 10 and 11's with 3+ stars. You will get a nice list to look through.

If I could pick one route it would be Amarillo sunset but I haven't been able to make it over to it yet. It is supposed to be ultra classic.

Be sure to look at the RRG online guide. Not aware of any other climbing area that has a resource like it, and the info on it will be better than what's on MP. http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuide/

General areas to hit are Muir Valley and the PMRP, but you probably already know that.

Muir is densely packed with routes and easy to navigate - can walk from one end of the valley to the other in ~20 minutes. In that span you'll find enough climbing in your range to keep you busy for a few days. For pushing on 11s, I'd check out the Arsenal/Solarium crags. They're right next to each other, and feature 2 of the better (imo) .11a's in Muir. Bathtub Mary and Air Ride Equipped. Can get warmed up at the Great Arch, which is just down the way and has a 9 and 10a.

I find the grading at PMRP a little stiffer, but it has a ton to offer as well. Amarillo Sunset is a great route that has a beautiful setting, but if you're just pushing into 11's I'd not recommend it as your first stop. Definitely check it out. I've never sent it, but in my opinion, if you want to get an idea of what you're in for, hop on Loompa at the Chocolate Factory. The Chocolate Factory and Drive By crags each have climbs in the range you're looking for, with Drive By being more well regarded.

Typing all this really makes me miss it. Just moved to VA and haven't been in the Red since summer. Enjoy!

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



I never really liked rrc.com so I never really used it. I always had a guidebook with me though. Solid advice though.

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite

armorer posted:

Are you there now? I just left this morning!

Ah bummer, maybe we ran into each other like goons in the night. I've been at Grotta and Panorama mostly.

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC

Like goons in the night? :gooncamp:?

Bud Manstrong
Dec 11, 2003

The Curse of the Flying Criosphinx


that's a really specific smiley

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC

With an equally strange backstory. Thanks for the Red advice. I had no clue about the website!

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


I'd throw in another vote for Amarillo Sunset. Easily one of the coolest climbs I've ever done, it's really spectacular. Definitely not an easy 11, and requires some BIIIIIG reaches/dynos, but even if you don't send it's a just plain fun route to play around on.

I'll also throw in another vote for Drive-By, sounds PERFECT for what you're looking for. You've got:
- Fire & Brimstone 10d which requires all kinds of cool techniques
- Breakfast Burrito 10d which is classic RRG plate-pulling with an exciting, airy finish
- Whip Stocking 11a, Yadda Yadda Yadda 11b, Spirit Fingers 11c. All these climbs are also classic, sustained plate-pulling on slightly overhanging, immaculate rock

Man, I need to get back to the Red :sigh:

SeaborneClink
Aug 27, 2010

MAWP... MAWP!


So I'm moving to the Bay Area, whats the rock climbing scene like there? Looking for some tips both indoors and outdoors. I'll be working and probably living in the East Bay. I'm familiar with Planet Granite's offerings from their Portland location but was curious if anyone had any other suggestions or ideas.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


It's mostly a wide assortment of PG and Touchstone gyms. Make friends with Baysians! Asians from the bay. I have quiet a few friends in that area.

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

The quickest substitution in the history of the NBA

SeaborneClink posted:

So I'm moving to the Bay Area, whats the rock climbing scene like there? Looking for some tips both indoors and outdoors. I'll be working and probably living in the East Bay. I'm familiar with Planet Granite's offerings from their Portland location but was curious if anyone had any other suggestions or ideas.

PGSF is awesome. Dogpatch Boulders is newer than PG and also supposed to be really good, but I haven't been. Castle Rock State Park is the main outdoor climbing spot for SF if you don't want to head to the Sierras.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


SeaborneClink posted:

So I'm moving to the Bay Area, whats the rock climbing scene like there? Looking for some tips both indoors and outdoors. I'll be working and probably living in the East Bay. I'm familiar with Planet Granite's offerings from their Portland location but was curious if anyone had any other suggestions or ideas.

What do you like to climb outdoors? SF isn't the same tier as SLC, Boulder, Bend, etc. for accessible, high-quality climbing, but if you're willing to drive 3-5 hours you can get to places like Yosemite, Bishop and Jailhouse, ticking the trad, bouldering and sport boxes.

There are a handful of crags that are closer, but not nearly as good. Still worth checking out, but more on the order of a couple day trips than any you'll really want to keep going back to over and over. That will also depend on what level you're climbing, too; I think the closer crags tend to have more moderate climbing. Berkeley also has a couple little bouldering spots in the city that won't knock your socks off, but they're still cool -- lot of history and basically right in your backyard if you want to boulder after work.

Jim Thornburg just put out a new Bay Area guidebook that I've heard is pretty good, probably worth picking up. A lot of the smaller crags aren't very well documented on MP.

The gym scene is pretty amazing in the Bay. In SF you've got nice gyms in PG and Mission Cliffs, and Dogpatch is an excellent bouldering gym. Biggest problem with any of these gyms is crowding, but that's just the demographics of SF right now. Most surrounding cities/burbs also have at least one gym and they all tend to be pretty good.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



What do you guys do to deal with burnout? I feel like I have climbed a lot over the last 18 months and I am not sure I can stomach another winter in the gym. It is crowded and honestly boring (movement Denver just really isn't that great of a gym other than 2 miles from work and only $58 a month). I climbed yesterday at the gym and just was so uninspired. One thing I did yesterday to try to spice it up is climbing only open handed. I only climbed up to 10a since open handing is harder then crimping your mind out. I am just not sure it is going to do it for me though. I am thinking of taking January off completely, maybe that will help. I feel like I am losing a little joy of climbing. Maybe my girlfriend being my normal partner is not helping? She doesn't climb real hard and is so afraid to fall it is frustrating because she has goals of being better but until she just let's go.... I want to encourage her but I am going to just shut my mouth mostly and let her do her. Also I really want her to stop short roping me and give me more slack and softer catches. I can't figure out a way to make that happen though. She just doesn't like to see me fall (but I usually push hard and fall a lot, especially on the gym), I appreciate the worry, I really do but I don't give two shits about falling. But I will pull a bit of rope to clip and feel it catch in her belay device. I just let the rope sit there until she gives the slack. Easy stuff this is fine but when I am on 12's...

That was really rant-y, I don't even really know what exactly I am looking for but I just wanted to kind of get it out there.

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



spwrozek posted:

What do you guys do to deal with burnout? I feel like I have climbed a lot over the last 18 months and I am not sure I can stomach another winter in the gym. It is crowded and honestly boring (movement Denver just really isn't that great of a gym other than 2 miles from work and only $58 a month). I climbed yesterday at the gym and just was so uninspired. One thing I did yesterday to try to spice it up is climbing only open handed. I only climbed up to 10a since open handing is harder then crimping your mind out. I am just not sure it is going to do it for me though. I am thinking of taking January off completely, maybe that will help. I feel like I am losing a little joy of climbing. Maybe my girlfriend being my normal partner is not helping? She doesn't climb real hard and is so afraid to fall it is frustrating because she has goals of being better but until she just let's go.... I want to encourage her but I am going to just shut my mouth mostly and let her do her. Also I really want her to stop short roping me and give me more slack and softer catches. I can't figure out a way to make that happen though. She just doesn't like to see me fall (but I usually push hard and fall a lot, especially on the gym), I appreciate the worry, I really do but I don't give two shits about falling. But I will pull a bit of rope to clip and feel it catch in her belay device. I just let the rope sit there until she gives the slack. Easy stuff this is fine but when I am on 12's...

That was really rant-y, I don't even really know what exactly I am looking for but I just wanted to kind of get it out there.

Sounds like you need to start bouldering a bit to mix it up and get a better, more consistent climbing partner that conforms to your level.

There's a reason having the SO as your partner can be game-breaking. If they aren't at your level and don't want to be at your level, you're stuck. Also, it's challenging to correct your SO in a way that isn't awkward if they aren't feeling it like you are.

Short answer: boulder to mix it up and find another partner for when you want to push harder.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


spwrozek posted:

What do you guys do to deal with burnout? I feel like I have climbed a lot over the last 18 months and I am not sure I can stomach another winter in the gym. It is crowded and honestly boring (movement Denver just really isn't that great of a gym other than 2 miles from work and only $58 a month). I climbed yesterday at the gym and just was so uninspired. One thing I did yesterday to try to spice it up is climbing only open handed. I only climbed up to 10a since open handing is harder then crimping your mind out. I am just not sure it is going to do it for me though. I am thinking of taking January off completely, maybe that will help. I feel like I am losing a little joy of climbing. Maybe my girlfriend being my normal partner is not helping? She doesn't climb real hard and is so afraid to fall it is frustrating because she has goals of being better but until she just let's go.... I want to encourage her but I am going to just shut my mouth mostly and let her do her. Also I really want her to stop short roping me and give me more slack and softer catches. I can't figure out a way to make that happen though. She just doesn't like to see me fall (but I usually push hard and fall a lot, especially on the gym), I appreciate the worry, I really do but I don't give two shits about falling. But I will pull a bit of rope to clip and feel it catch in her belay device. I just let the rope sit there until she gives the slack. Easy stuff this is fine but when I am on 12's...

That was really rant-y, I don't even really know what exactly I am looking for but I just wanted to kind of get it out there.

Couple random thoughts:

- Agree with gamera009, climbing with SO can be good or not good, and it sounds like maybe not so good in your case. Nothing wrong with that, I'm in the same boat myself. Is there another climber couple at the gym you guys could pair off with?

- More slack does not equal a softer catch. I know you didn't say this explicitly, but it's a common misunderstanding so it's worth saying for the thread in general. If your SO is short-roping you, that's a separate issue, but it's important that she understands how to give a softer catch if that's a gap. It sounds like she's pretty concerned for your safety, so maybe explaining how softer catches are actually safer (at least in the context of gym climbing) would be helpful?

- Also agree with gamera009 about switching up styles. Can really help break mental and physical plateaus. If you're used to route climbing at the gym, switch your focus to bouldering and target your weaknesses. It'll feel fresher and it's also motivating to find areas where you can improve relatively rapidly

- Bouldering might actually help with your SO's fear of falling. YMMV but I actually find that getting really comfortable with bouldering at moderate heights (not super highball, but high enough that you're aware of the height) is more helpful with comfort falling on a rope than actual lead climbing

- I don't think I can post in this thread without mentioning: training. I'm not even going to get into whether that includes hangboarding, campusing, etc., or not -- more important, just have a systematic, specific plan for when you go to the gym. I enjoy gym climbing, but I really don't like showing up at the gym and "just climbing", which really entails sort of meandering from one route to the next, chatting a lot, and not really accomplishing anything. This might mean that your goal for a gym session is to climb every V4, or to run laps on the same 5.11 so you have the movement dialed and can focus on pump management, or it might mean you pick 3 really hard boulder problems and give 3-5 attempts with long rests in between each. Have a purpose, have goals that you can track against, and it becomes a lot easier to summon motivation

- Take a break. I try to not take more than 2 consecutive weeks off at once, but take some time to pursue other activities, totally unrelated to climbing. For me, I'm always ready to come back to climbing after a couple of weeks off, and it feels a bit like a reset

- Movement Denver isn't that great of a gym??? What are you smoking!!! Granted, Iv'e only been there once when I was in town for work, but I thought it was an excellent gym. Varied terrain, high quality setting, good training facility… what's missing?!?!

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Couple random thoughts:

- Agree with gamera009, climbing with SO can be good or not good, and it sounds like maybe not so good in your case. Nothing wrong with that, I'm in the same boat myself. Is there another climber couple at the gym you guys could pair off with?

- More slack does not equal a softer catch. I know you didn't say this explicitly, but it's a common misunderstanding so it's worth saying for the thread in general. If your SO is short-roping you, that's a separate issue, but it's important that she understands how to give a softer catch if that's a gap. It sounds like she's pretty concerned for your safety, so maybe explaining how softer catches are actually safer (at least in the context of gym climbing) would be helpful?

- Also agree with gamera009 about switching up styles. Can really help break mental and physical plateaus. If you're used to route climbing at the gym, switch your focus to bouldering and target your weaknesses. It'll feel fresher and it's also motivating to find areas where you can improve relatively rapidly

- Bouldering might actually help with your SO's fear of falling. YMMV but I actually find that getting really comfortable with bouldering at moderate heights (not super highball, but high enough that you're aware of the height) is more helpful with comfort falling on a rope than actual lead climbing

- I don't think I can post in this thread without mentioning: training. I'm not even going to get into whether that includes hangboarding, campusing, etc., or not -- more important, just have a systematic, specific plan for when you go to the gym. I enjoy gym climbing, but I really don't like showing up at the gym and "just climbing", which really entails sort of meandering from one route to the next, chatting a lot, and not really accomplishing anything. This might mean that your goal for a gym session is to climb every V4, or to run laps on the same 5.11 so you have the movement dialed and can focus on pump management, or it might mean you pick 3 really hard boulder problems and give 3-5 attempts with long rests in between each. Have a purpose, have goals that you can track against, and it becomes a lot easier to summon motivation

- Take a break. I try to not take more than 2 consecutive weeks off at once, but take some time to pursue other activities, totally unrelated to climbing. For me, I'm always ready to come back to climbing after a couple of weeks off, and it feels a bit like a reset

- Movement Denver isn't that great of a gym??? What are you smoking!!! Granted, Iv'e only been there once when I was in town for work, but I thought it was an excellent gym. Varied terrain, high quality setting, good training facility… what's missing?!?!

Thanks for the replies guys.

I should clarify a couple things. I really like climbing with my gf. She is a great person and pretty up for whatever. It is climbing in the gym that is frustrating with her. She wants to push past 10a/b leading but will not just go for it and risk a fall. It is the gym, super safe, clean falls. I don't know how to push her past that our what to say. She is reading rock warriors way so maybe that will help. I don't mind at all climbing with people who don't have the same goals as me either. Add long as they are striving to there goals in the gym it pumps me up. But when my partners struggle to make any progress it is disheartening and I feel bad as I go on to lead harder and harder stuff.

Part of the gym downer for me is I climb outside, a lot. I am at 40 days this year. I have been all over too, mostly with my gf. It is a blast going on the adventure with her, she is up for anything. Sleeping in the snow, sleeping in the car, my stove losing oxygen and lighting on fire at 11,000', bush whacking to do obscure crag, really anything. It is great! She is actually a much better belay outside because she can't probably tell how close everything is our something. We have been on 4-5 pitch routes, belayed me up 11c. It is great.

I really love the sharp end honestly, top rope is so uninteresting. I may try to throw in some more bouldering though to spice it up, I also think I may stick with open hand climbing some. Maybe work in some training but I like the climbing for the climb mostly.

Good idea to try to get another couple in the fold. We have one that we get out with some but not on the gym a lot. Maybe if she climbs with a girl it will be less pressure for her and she can work through her mental block.

I think I will grab a break as well which will help.

Oh movement Denver. Why it sucks... Crowded, oh god the crowds. The setting is very much the same on all the routes, it gets a repetitive feel. The easy stuff had contrived feet a lot of times. I think it is mostly the crowds though, ah the crowds!!

Just talking about it with you guys makes me feel better.

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



At least you have a climbing partner. For now, roped climbing is shelved until I find one that I can actually commit to training and working on projects with.

Bouldering has been good, but definitely in the gym it is more for projecting for a week or two, and then just targeting something specific. Personally, I need a lot more hip and waist flexibility, so I force myself to work on a lot of terrible foot-dependent crimping and heel hooks. I can't tell if it's helping, but at least it feels good to be able to progress on the ridiculous stuff that I wouldn't have tried previously.

Whether this actually translates to better performance outside, I have no idea.

Pushing your SO to boulder or climb harder outside is something you can't really accomplish if she isn't in the mental space for it. It's one of the things that is huge for me when finding a new climbing partner. I don't want a partner that is not in the same headspace and isn't willing to do crazy poo poo - even if it means being rescued. I'd rather push myself to those limits and have a climbing partner (sport/trad or bouldering) that is willing to be supportive and go with me up that terrible lead, rather than one that will get to the crag and then welch out and not push themselves. I don't care how nice they are - it's holding back my personal development and as selfish as that sounds, if I value that progression, then I'm not going to value that climbing relationship with that partner because I can't get past that plateau if I am dealing with a partner that is not willing to go outside their comfort zone.

It's not something that is "bad" about your SO for not wanting, or being unwilling, to push outside that box. It's a very real threat of injury, etc. and I understand that. I've been there - but at the end of the day, you only get better if you climb harder; and if you can't climb harder because she won't climb harder, then maybe you should look at other avenues of training beyond just climbing with the SO.

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite


Entering the crux on Orion, a very fun 7c+ at the Odyssey Wall, Kalymnos

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


spwrozek posted:

I should clarify a couple things. I really like climbing with my gf. She is a great person and pretty up for whatever. It is climbing in the gym that is frustrating with her. She wants to push past 10a/b leading but will not just go for it and risk a fall. It is the gym, super safe, clean falls. I don't know how to push her past that our what to say. She is reading rock warriors way so maybe that will help. I don't mind at all climbing with people who don't have the same goals as me either. Add long as they are striving to there goals in the gym it pumps me up. But when my partners struggle to make any progress it is disheartening and I feel bad as I go on to lead harder and harder stuff.
Agreeing with gamera again here -- it's pretty hard to push a partner to get over mental blocks like that fear of falling, let alone when she's your SO. If she really wants to break the mental block, and it sounds like she does if she's reading RWW, then it'll wind up being her own self motivation that does it, and it's just your job to be supportive and facilitate it, rather than drive it. Sounds like you're doing everything right already, it's just a matter of patience and biting your tongue, which can certainly be frustrating.

At the risk of sounding harsh, I'll also say that it still sounds like your GF needs some coaching on how to belay properly. Sounds like even if she belays you better outside, it's just a coincidence because she can't see you but she doesn't actually know why she's giving a better belay. To be honest, sounds like her priority should be improving as a belayer before she focuses on improving as a climber. This could be a touchy subject, but probably best handled with honest, direct communication about what she needs to improve at.

spwrozek posted:

Oh movement Denver. Why it sucks... Crowded, oh god the crowds. The setting is very much the same on all the routes, it gets a repetitive feel. The easy stuff had contrived feet a lot of times. I think it is mostly the crowds though, ah the crowds!!
Fair enough, when I went it was around lunchtime on a weekday so the place was empty. Definitely not a massive gym, and for a city with the demographics and size of Denver, I could see how it would get insanely crowded. FWIW the gyms in SF also get insanely crowded, and I've resorted to trying to climb mostly at off-peak times, which really helps. Fortunately, my main gym (Mission Cliffs) opens at 6:30am on weekdays, and it's usually pretty empty then, so I can get in a nice session before work.

Pedestrian Xing
Jul 18, 2007



Anybody have suggestions for what rubber I should get my katanas resolved in? I do almost all gym climbing and bouldering.

Intrus
Dec 22, 2004
U3RhciBXYXJzIHJ1bGVzLg==

spwrozek posted:

She wants to push past 10a/b leading but will not just go for it and risk a fall. It is the gym, super safe, clean falls. I don't know how to push her past that our what to say. She is reading rock warriors way so maybe that will help.

As someone who felt frustrated with my lead climbing about six months ago, I feel her pain. I didn't want to push, especially with slab or tricky bits where the falls were extra-scary, and I was fighting over-grip, heart-race anxiety on routes I would blast through on TR. Reading the Rock Warriors Way is great, but taking their Falling and Commitment Class is even better. They hold it all over the US, and it's an entire evening of learning how to fall properly. It addressed much of my blind fear, and gave me a lot of fundamentals that I now use every time I climb. Breathing, self-talk, being aware of no-fall zones, good falling technique... It's the best class I've taken for climbing, hands-down. They also talk a lot about belaying, catching, and being a great climbing partner.

Here's the site. I think they do Denver periodically, or you can request it:
http://warriorsway.com/usa-gym_falling-and-commitment-training-events

There should be other falling classes you can take, too. PRG here in Portland held one recently that was unrelated to the one I took. A lot of people struggle with falling fears, so it's a common class. Maybe it will help her get through her block, and help you, too.

Good luck to both of you!

Intrus fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 24, 2015

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Any goons in j tree for thanks giving?

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


Pedestrian Xing posted:

Anybody have suggestions for what rubber I should get my katanas resolved in? I do almost all gym climbing and bouldering.

XS Edge or Stealth Onyxx if you want the rubber to last as long as possible. XS Grip, Stealth HF, or Stealth Mi6 if you want maximum stickiness. I get Stealth C4 on most of my shoes, it is in the middle of the firmness/stickiness spectrum and it works great on the granite and schist I spend my time on.

SplitDestiny
Sep 25, 2004


jackchaos posted:

Any goons in j tree for thanks giving?

Yeah maybe. There or Red Rocks.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Ill be in j tree we should have a space station meet up! Ill be there from Tuesday to Sunday!

Friday or Saturday night pig pen throw down for those in the jtree area!

jackchaos fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 24, 2015

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC

Thanks for all the advice guys! I ended up one-hanging Johnnie B Good on the first day, and sending it the next!

I then got brave and went for No Place Like Home and took 6 falls off the no hands rest due to trying to force the wrong beta and had to rap off a bail beaner, but think I will definitely be able to knock it out next time I go. It was an awesome experience overall!

IrvingWashington
Dec 9, 2007


Clapping Larry

IrvingWashington posted:

I haven't. ETCH got back to me and said this is a really weird problem; they think maybe someone is making counterfeit holds and selling them through Amazon. I just used the bolts they came with.

Thought I should be fair and update here - ETCH sent me replacements for everything, and a bunch of other holds as well, including a pretty big sloper / jug depending on which way I mount it, which was a pleasant surprise. It took a while to get everything sorted, probably a month and a half in total, but they were appropriately concerned and didn't try to bullshit me at any point. All the new holds have washers installed, so I'm pretty happy overall, although I'd rather not get leg-breaking holds in the first place.

Now I just have to get the heaters back in the garage and train instead of falling asleep at 7pm every day :(

Unrelated: Chessler have some signed copies of Honnold's book in stock, if you're into that kind of thing. I treated myself for my birthday, got it today, looks decent enough http://tinyurl.com/nvvym2b

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


J tree fun



MiamiKid
Dec 14, 2003


FiestaDePantalones posted:

Thanks for all the advice guys! I ended up one-hanging Johnnie B Good on the first day, and sending it the next!

I then got brave and went for No Place Like Home and took 6 falls off the no hands rest due to trying to force the wrong beta and had to rap off a bail beaner, but think I will definitely be able to knock it out next time I go. It was an awesome experience overall!

Nice! NPLH is stunning. Good move in getting on it. You got stopped at the rest/bolt where it starts to get overhung, or out on the arete?

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC

On the arete. My friends made such a big deal about how fun the arete was to climb that I kinda shut down my brain and tried to force straight up it instead of seeing what I'm told are more obvious moves to the left of where I was.

Awkward Davies
Sep 3, 2009


Grimey Drawer

I have a noob question:

How much do gym routes correspond to outdoor routes? Are there actually big jugs out on real rock? Or does it depend wildly on the rock?

Edit: noob question 2

Is it worth it resoling shoes? I've worn a hole through the rubber on the inside edge of my first pair (tarantulas).

Awkward Davies fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Dec 1, 2015

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


Awkward Davies posted:

How much do gym routes correspond to outdoor routes? Are there actually big jugs out on real rock? Or does it depend wildly on the rock?

Depends on the rock and on the setting in the gym. There will be exceptions, but in general: holds are smaller and less positive on real rock than in the gym. There's usually a lot more use of foot smearing on real rock than in the gym, and I find that in general you make more foot movements between shittier feet on real rock than in the gym. It's also often much less clear where the holds are on real rock -- real rock does get chalked up, which gives you an inkling of where to go and which holds to use, but it's much less obvious to find the optimal beta or way to grip a hold on real rock vs. the gym -- after all, the real rock wasn't intentionally set by someone using the same plastic holds that you've climbed on in a different configuration before.

I think this is all exaggerated when you're at more moderate grades (5.10 or less, V2 or less): on real rock, those more moderate grades tend to be less than overhanging or maybe vertical, which is why they still get moderate grades despite having small holds. Gyms tend to have more vertical-to-overhanging terrain, so setters have to use big rear end jugs to achieve the same moderate grades on more difficult terrain.

I also find that gym climbs tend to be more sustained, on average, than outdoor climbs. I think this is a factor of wall height -- most gyms have maybe one or two walls that are up around 50 feet, but the majority of walls are probably more like 30-40 feet. Outdoor crags obviously vary in height, but I'd guess that most sport routes fall more in the 60-80 foot range. When you've got a longer climb, there's more a chance for varied difficulty within the climb, and you'll often have places that are so easy that you can actually stop and rest for a bit before continuing. A made-up example might be a 5.12 outdoor climb, where the first 30 feet are 5.10-, then there's a big jug that you can rest on for a few minutes, then there's a 15-foot V4 boulder problem, then the last 25 feet are 5.11-. Compare that to a 5.12 gym climb that's 35 feet tall total. There's not enough space for similarly varied difficulty as the outdoor climb, so you often wind up with a climb that's 25 feet of V4 plus 10 feet of V5.

Awkward Davies posted:

Is it worth it resoling shoes? I've worn a hole through the rubber on the inside edge of my first pair (tarantulas).

It's worth resoling them, but you want to try to time it just before you wear through the rand/rubber on the toe. If you've already worn through the rubber, then it's probably not worth it.

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


Awkward Davies posted:

Is it worth it resoling shoes? I've worn a hole through the rubber on the inside edge of my first pair (tarantulas).

this page has a bunch of graphics that can help you learn when your shoes need to be resoled. The fix for a worn down rand is called a toe cap - they are expensive ($10/shoe) and it changes the shape of the shoe.

In general resoling is a great thing. You can pick the type of rubber you like, you don't have to break in a new pair of shoes, and it costs around $30 plus shipping. It's a great way to add lifetime to a $150 pair of shoes that you love. But I wouldn't bother resoling your first pair of shoes. Chances are they're not a great fit in either size or volume - now that you're familiar with climbing you can pick out a shoe with the right width across the toes or a heel that suits you, or pick up something smaller, downturned, and aggressive.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



If you put a hole in the shoe rand it probably isn't worth the cost. You can probably find those shoes on sale for the $60 to repair the rand, 1/2 resole, and shipping. I would probably just get new shoes that better fit your needs.

Gym grades don't really compare to outside imo, it is really different climbing outside. It is the best climbing though.

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Awkward Davies
Sep 3, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Depends on the rock and on the setting in the gym. There will be exceptions, but in general: holds are smaller and less positive on real rock than in the gym. There's usually a lot more use of foot smearing on real rock than in the gym, and I find that in general you make more foot movements between shittier feet on real rock than in the gym. It's also often much less clear where the holds are on real rock -- real rock does get chalked up, which gives you an inkling of where to go and which holds to use, but it's much less obvious to find the optimal beta or way to grip a hold on real rock vs. the gym -- after all, the real rock wasn't intentionally set by someone using the same plastic holds that you've climbed on in a different configuration before.

I think this is all exaggerated when you're at more moderate grades (5.10 or less, V2 or less): on real rock, those more moderate grades tend to be less than overhanging or maybe vertical, which is why they still get moderate grades despite having small holds. Gyms tend to have more vertical-to-overhanging terrain, so setters have to use big rear end jugs to achieve the same moderate grades on more difficult terrain.

I also find that gym climbs tend to be more sustained, on average, than outdoor climbs. I think this is a factor of wall height -- most gyms have maybe one or two walls that are up around 50 feet, but the majority of walls are probably more like 30-40 feet. Outdoor crags obviously vary in height, but I'd guess that most sport routes fall more in the 60-80 foot range. When you've got a longer climb, there's more a chance for varied difficulty within the climb, and you'll often have places that are so easy that you can actually stop and rest for a bit before continuing. A made-up example might be a 5.12 outdoor climb, where the first 30 feet are 5.10-, then there's a big jug that you can rest on for a few minutes, then there's a 15-foot V4 boulder problem, then the last 25 feet are 5.11-. Compare that to a 5.12 gym climb that's 35 feet tall total. There's not enough space for similarly varied difficulty as the outdoor climb, so you often wind up with a climb that's 25 feet of V4 plus 10 feet of V5.


It's worth resoling them, but you want to try to time it just before you wear through the rand/rubber on the toe. If you've already worn through the rubber, then it's probably not worth it.

Thanks for the response. I haven't gotten outside yet, and I was wondering about what it would be like.

What do you mean when you say "a 15 foot v4 boulder problem"? I was watching one the IFSC comps, and they referred to a section of the route as "boulder-y" and I couldn't figure out why.

turevidar posted:

this page has a bunch of graphics that can help you learn when your shoes need to be resoled. The fix for a worn down rand is called a toe cap - they are expensive ($10/shoe) and it changes the shape of the shoe.

In general resoling is a great thing. You can pick the type of rubber you like, you don't have to break in a new pair of shoes, and it costs around $30 plus shipping. It's a great way to add lifetime to a $150 pair of shoes that you love. But I wouldn't bother resoling your first pair of shoes. Chances are they're not a great fit in either size or volume - now that you're familiar with climbing you can pick out a shoe with the right width across the toes or a heel that suits you, or pick up something smaller, downturned, and aggressive.

Yeah these shoes are my first. I bought another pair of them yesterday actually, to take advantage of cyber Monday. I wanted to buy something else, but was worried I'd buy something that didn't fit my feet, so.

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