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gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



Dutymode posted:

Actually, I'm flying into Denver in August for a hiking trip, and I'm toying with the idea of seeing someone while I'm out there. Who did you see, if you don't mind me asking?

No climbing while you're in Denver? For shame!

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Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008


I'll probably bring my shoes at least, but we'll see if our schedule lets me climb any.

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010


Dutymode posted:

Not to pick on you specifically in any way, but every time I read about climbing injuries, someone suggests this. Living no where near any outdoor climbing, this just feels like telling someone they need to find a unicorn or something. In my experience, doctors have been useful for confirming nothing is torn or broken. Other than that, I feel like I'd have to fly to Denver or something if I'm actually going to find any sort of specialist.
My experience last year was that most orthos in my area (London) didn't know much about climbers beyond pulley injuries. The last person I saw was really good though, despite being 'I hate it when a climber comes in' he referred me to a lady who did diagnose the issue, and has checked up on me a couple times since. He's also passed my details onto another guy who is specifically interested in climbing injuries, although nothing has come of it so far.

I'll probably see him again if my wrists are still shite after another month off climbing...they're basically pain free day-to-day now though, so fingers crossed...

tynam
May 14, 2007


Quick shoe review: they were sold out of Pythons at all local stores, then I found out they were discontinued. I asked a dude at Gear Coop for something similar and he recommended me the Tenaya Iati. I didn't expect to spend so much but it was just so goddamn comfortable for how aggressive it was that I ended up getting it anyway.

Previous shoes: Shamans, Addicts, Anasazi, Tarantulace. The Iati is blowing them all out of the water right now.

Bud Manstrong
Dec 11, 2003

The Curse of the Flying Criosphinx


tynam posted:

Quick shoe review: they were sold out of Pythons at all local stores, then I found out they were discontinued. I asked a dude at Gear Coop for something similar and he recommended me the Tenaya Iati. I didn't expect to spend so much but it was just so goddamn comfortable for how aggressive it was that I ended up getting it anyway.

Previous shoes: Shamans, Addicts, Anasazi, Tarantulace. The Iati is blowing them all out of the water right now.

For whatever it's worth I totally agree with this. Just tried them at a demo recently and they fixed the only minor issue I had with the Oasi. They toe in as well as the Oasi, but they edge almost as well as my Miuras. Loved these shoes.

magicalmako
Feb 13, 2005


Getting your gear stolen sucks :(. At least it happened when I'm injured!

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Slightly odd question: I wear glasses. 98% of the time it's fine but occasionally they get in the way. I have contact lenses but wearing them to the gym seems like a terrible idea - the air has chalk dust in it, dust puffs off the holds, and if you do decide you need to take the lenses out then having mucky, dusty fingers is absolutely not what you want. Or am I worrying too much?

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.

Zephro posted:

Slightly odd question: I wear glasses. 98% of the time it's fine but occasionally they get in the way. I have contact lenses but wearing them to the gym seems like a terrible idea - the air has chalk dust in it, dust puffs off the holds, and if you do decide you need to take the lenses out then having mucky, dusty fingers is absolutely not what you want. Or am I worrying too much?

How do they get in the way? If you're worried about them falling off, you can always get a strap to hold them on.

As for the contacts and chalk/other dust, can you give it a try and see if it's even an issue?

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



I wear contacts climbing all the time and it's fine. I carry a little bottle of eye drops in case I ever get a bunch of chalk in there but I've never needed it.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Business of Ferrets posted:

How do they get in the way? If you're worried about them falling off, you can always get a strap to hold them on.

As for the contacts and chalk/other dust, can you give it a try and see if it's even an issue?
Sometimes when doing roped stuff the rope knocks them, which can be annoying. It's not a big deal, just very occasionally irritating.

quote:

I wear contacts climbing all the time and it's fine. I carry a little bottle of eye drops in case I ever get a bunch of chalk in there but I've never needed it.
Thanks, that's reassuring. Guess I'll give it a try. I was mainly worried because if it doesn't work then taking contacts out is something you want to do with properly clean hands, ideally, and the idea of heading over to the sink with an eyeful of chalk dust, spending a minute washing the crap off my hands and only THEN taking the painful contacts out doesn't fill me with joy, heh.

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.

Zephro posted:

Sometimes when doing roped stuff the rope knocks them, which can be annoying. It's not a big deal, just very occasionally irritating.

Lead climbing will fix that issue!

Manstrocity
Apr 28, 2009


Business of Ferrets posted:

Lead climbing will fix that issue!

If you're on a slab or are getting real close to the rock you can either scrape them off against the wall or knock them crossing your arm over. Contacts have always been fine for me and they're probably the way to go.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Business of Ferrets posted:

Lead climbing will fix that issue!

Second this, almost lost mine on multi pitch cause my partner would pull too hard as I was cleaning and the rope would hit me in the face.

Other then that never had problems with my glasses and I have to wear them all the time since contracts make me motion sick for some reason.

Fatkraken
Jun 23, 2005

Fun-time is over.

anyone here like watching climbing? The British bouldering champs are in my city again this year so I was thinking of swinging by on day 2, there were some seriously impressive moves last year, obvious even to a total non-bouldering casual climber like me

Mons Hubris
Aug 29, 2004

fanci flup :)




Well I survived my first outdoor climbing trip. All top rope but I got a 5.8 so I was pretty happy.

IrvingWashington
Dec 9, 2007


Clapping Larry

Fatkraken posted:

anyone here like watching climbing? The British bouldering champs are in my city again this year so I was thinking of swinging by on day 2, there were some seriously impressive moves last year, obvious even to a total non-bouldering casual climber like me

Ah drat, I'm not going to be over in time. On the plus side I'm moving from mid-Missouri to somewhere around Leeds about a week later, so if you're ever up for some Peak District fun, I am more than down. It's been way too long, I'm stoked.

Fatkraken
Jun 23, 2005

Fun-time is over.

IrvingWashington posted:

Ah drat, I'm not going to be over in time. On the plus side I'm moving from mid-Missouri to somewhere around Leeds about a week later, so if you're ever up for some Peak District fun, I am more than down. It's been way too long, I'm stoked.

Never climbed outside I'm afraid, but gym buddy has offered to take me out some time later this summer

In better news, my wall got two new Autobelays set up and they're both on walls with slight overhangs that are otherwise used for lead climbing. All the other toproping/auto routes are on walls htat are mostly straight or have a slight slope in the climbers favour, so long overhang walls are new to me. SO fun but SO much arm work, ima get so swole!

Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 26, 2016

Bud Manstrong
Dec 11, 2003

The Curse of the Flying Criosphinx


Here's something a little different. I did the via ferrata in Telluride for the second time this weekend. Yes, I know that a PAS and a nylon sling aren't ideal for protection. I went second this time so the new folks could get better pictures, but this gives a pretty good idea. Takes about 90 minutes. The completely exposed sheer section is only 100-150 feet, but it's amazing.



Bud Manstrong fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jun 27, 2016

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



And yet you skipped the great multi pitch climbing right below it :(. Looks like a lot of fun though!

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


So I did a thing last night, everything went ok and I survived but I'd appreciate input on this setup if anybody things I was being particularly stupid: I wanted to get some trad practice, but I didn't have a partner. I fixed a rope over an easy single pitch route and used a grigri to self-belay and rap single-strand. I put a knot in the rope a few feet from the bottom to keep my rear end off the ground if I panicked while rapping and deathgripped the grigri lever. With rope stretch I could probably have messed up an ankle pretty bad but I was on an easy slabby route, ledge fall potential is there no matter how you climb it. I have a rescue beacon that I kept in a pocket in case something severe happened.

That went really smoothly and I'll probably do it again soon. I've done a lot of walking around with my rack practicing placements on boulders or the bottom of routes, but that wastes a lot of time. This TR setup let me get in a lot of placements in a short amount of time, I could think about gear budgeting (do I use this cam now or will I need it later?), and I got some of the distracting rush of being high up. It also let me practice rappelling which is scary as hell.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Fatkraken posted:

anyone here like watching climbing? The British bouldering champs are in my city again this year so I was thinking of swinging by on day 2, there were some seriously impressive moves last year, obvious even to a total non-bouldering casual climber like me
In Sheffield? I was thinking about it, not sure I can make it, though.

Random question: been trying a different set of routes at the gym for the past few weeks that focus heavily on fingers - either crimping small holds, two-finger pockets, or else grabbing big flat ones with a small ridge that you have to jam your fingers onto. I've managed to do about six or seven routes in the past two weeks or so, and make good progress on a few more. This morning I have slightly achey fingers. Not bad enough to stop me doing anything, and it's all of my three main fingers on each hand rather than one specifically, so I don't think it's a tendon injury (unless I've managed to injure all six at once). It's most noticeable if I really flex my fingers, as in trying to touch the pads of my palms with the pads of my fingers.

But I'm thinking I should 1) back off a bit and 2) focus on doing some gentle finger conditioning stuff once things have settled down. Anyone got any suggestions? Or am I worrying too much?

Zephro fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 28, 2016

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


Sounds like standard tight / worked tendons. Are your fingers tender if you squeeze the first segment with your other hand?

Stay off of the fingery climbs until you hands feel normal again. It's really, really easy to overdo it and finger injuries take a long time to heal. Rest + ice + ibuprofen.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


turevidar posted:

Sounds like standard tight / worked tendons. Are your fingers tender if you squeeze the first segment with your other hand?
Do you mean the segment nearest the knuckle? Yes, a little.

quote:

Stay off of the fingery climbs until you hands feel normal again. It's really, really easy to overdo it and finger injuries take a long time to heal. Rest + ice + ibuprofen.
Thanks, will do. Is there anything else I can do to toughen them up? Stretching, exercises, that kind of thing? Little reluctant to do any more hangboarding given what's happened, but maybe that would be useful in small doses?

Zephro fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jun 28, 2016

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



I've messed up my fingers a few times, but fortunately not seriously. I use the taping technique in this sorta crappy video to this day on my weaker fingers even though I'm healed up. It was immediately apparent that it was helping out when I first started using it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0hl8cT4OeM

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


That sounds exactly like sore pulley tendons, then. I would stay far away from a hangboard until your hands have been feeling fine for a few weeks. Climbing on comfy holds is OK basically as soon as your hands aren't sore.

I haven't found any useful exercises to prevent pulley injuries: they happen due to overuse, so hangboarding, campusing, or focused crimp work will irritate an injury once it's happened. Pulley tendons aren't muscles and can't really be stretched: what gets injured is the little U-shaped tendon that holds down the long tendon that runs between your fingertip and forearm. It's not something you can flex or relax directly.



Crimping hard and hyperextending your distal knuckle backwards is really, really stressful for your A2 pulleys. When your fingers are tender, don't do this:



or else you could get a rupture and end up like this:



Tendons do get stronger with use, but it happens much, much more slowly than muscle development. The only thing I've found to be effective is to take it easy when your hands complain.

Zephro
Nov 23, 2000

I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...


Thanks for the info, both those posts are super useful. I've ordered some tape. I think I might avoid climbing for a week or so and see how I feel then. The middle finger on my right hand seems worst affected but it's fully functional and only really aches a little when I'm actively flexing it. So hopefully it's just a minor strain and it'll get better with some time off and a trip back to juggier holds for a while.

Zephro fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jun 28, 2016

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



turevidar posted:

So I did a thing last night, everything went ok and I survived but I'd appreciate input on this setup if anybody things I was being particularly stupid: I wanted to get some trad practice, but I didn't have a partner. I fixed a rope over an easy single pitch route and used a grigri to self-belay and rap single-strand. I put a knot in the rope a few feet from the bottom to keep my rear end off the ground if I panicked while rapping and deathgripped the grigri lever. With rope stretch I could probably have messed up an ankle pretty bad but I was on an easy slabby route, ledge fall potential is there no matter how you climb it. I have a rescue beacon that I kept in a pocket in case something severe happened.

That went really smoothly and I'll probably do it again soon. I've done a lot of walking around with my rack practicing placements on boulders or the bottom of routes, but that wastes a lot of time. This TR setup let me get in a lot of placements in a short amount of time, I could think about gear budgeting (do I use this cam now or will I need it later?), and I got some of the distracting rush of being high up. It also let me practice rappelling which is scary as hell.

I don't believe petzl recommends using a grigri as a solo device. A lot of people due it though. Back it up with a micro trax is probably a good idea.

henne
May 9, 2009

by exmarx


You can also tie bight knots as you go to improve safety as a knot won't fit through a grigri. Not an ideal situation but it's what I always did when setting for a bit of extra piece of mind.

SeaborneClink
Aug 27, 2010

MAWP... MAWP!


spwrozek posted:

I don't believe petzl recommends using a grigri as a solo device. A lot of people due it though. Back it up with a micro trax is probably a good idea.

This is correct, I've watched people do it and it freaks me out a bit as I've seen GriGri's not engage the cam. I'd recommend buying a rescuecender (I have the old model), microcender or a microtrax.

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


SeaborneClink posted:

This is correct, I've watched people do it and it freaks me out a bit as I've seen GriGri's not engage the cam. I'd recommend buying a rescuecender (I have the old model), microcender or a microtrax.

What were the circumstances when you saw a grigri fail to engage?

SplitDestiny
Sep 25, 2004


The general rule with top rope soloing on a fixed line is to use two auto locking devices. A grigri works well with any sort of traxion but the traxions can shred the rope on any sort of fall. Grigri's also don't freely feed rope well. If you do use a traxion type device, make sure it's the backup to the grigri.

This is the best piece of gear for feeding and not shredding the rope. https://www.amazon.com/Kong-Duck-Rope-Clamp-Ascender/dp/B0184EKMM4 Two of those are great and they are perfect for simuling as they can be placed on bolts/anchors/after a crux and prevent the follower from causing a factor two fall.

Also, anyone frequent Yosemite area much? I need some suggestions of 10c-11b crack lines that aren't blazing hot this weekend to prep for an ascent of the rostrum.

henne
May 9, 2009

by exmarx


turevidar posted:

What were the circumstances when you saw a grigri fail to engage?

I've seen weird poo poo happen with bouncing loads and grigris. I dropped a bucket of holds on a grigri ~30 feet one time setting. I used a plate device in plaquette mode after that, which is easy and safe but a pain to convert to a lower quickly.

If its holding ur bucket setting you can clip a leash to the rope carabiner and as you descend it'll release friction and your bucket comes with you.

E: If you are outside and working a route solo I'd recommend using a second belay line as a backup instead of a second device on the same line. Your rub point on any sharp edges won't move and it can be really easy to cut your rope in the right circumstances.

Closest I've ever been to getting hurt on a rope was on a long overhanging rap through a waterfall where the person getting buffeted by the falls would saw the rope over the lip of the falls. Didn't notice until we pulled the rope but we had 3 new core shots in the rope and had to pass a lot of knots the rest of the canyon.

henne fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 30, 2016

SeaborneClink
Aug 27, 2010

MAWP... MAWP!


turevidar posted:

What were the circumstances when you saw a grigri fail to engage?

When used outside their intended application. Not a fast/sharp enough motion will fail to cam and can lead to rope slip. Wet can also cause rope slip.

I wasn't talking about rope freely flowing past the cam until the loaded end hits the ground, just that it can lead to unexpected things happening. All of the above also doesn't include user error, accidentally depressing the lever, panic grabbing or holding the loaded end above the cam will also cause the cam not to engage sometimes.

Electoral Surgery
Mar 19, 2010


Hey rock nerds give me your projecting strategies. Do you structure it, or just try hard a lot until it goes? When do you start doing send attempts?

e: to add some content, here are a couple blog posts about projecting from power company climbing. Injuries have been preventing me from following their training advice since I found their blog, but they seem to have a pretty well-thought-out, structured approach to training planning and hangboard/campusboard use.

Electoral Surgery fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 5, 2016

gamera009
Apr 7, 2005



turevidar posted:

Hey rock nerds give me your projecting strategies. Do you structure it, or just try hard a lot until it goes? When do you start doing send attempts?

e: to add some content, here are a couple blog posts about projecting from power company climbing. Injuries have been preventing me from following their training advice since I found their blog, but they seem to have a pretty well-thought-out, structured approach to training planning and hangboard/campusboard use.

Since I have a gym at home, I typically try to match holds and movement to the project I'm working on. Then I train for the individual moves - mostly setting crux moves and the like. Repeat with ARC when possible and then start sending when it feels right.

Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008


I read a lot of that guy's blog when I first found it, until he talked about how everyone who doesn't just climb through the pain is weak, then he's out with rotator cuff surgery. I wouldn't follow his training advice.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


turevidar posted:

Hey rock nerds give me your projecting strategies. Do you structure it, or just try hard a lot until it goes? When do you start doing send attempts?

e: to add some content, here are a couple blog posts about projecting from power company climbing. Injuries have been preventing me from following their training advice since I found their blog, but they seem to have a pretty well-thought-out, structured approach to training planning and hangboard/campusboard use.

I'm not much of a projecting expert, as I've tended to focus more on onsighting new climbs. That said, I've started projecting a bit more over the past year, and here is what I've found helpful:

- If you're really going to be projecting, and not expecting a send within a couple of goes, commit! Spend plenty of time on the route, rehearse moves, break the climb down into sections (e.g., crux to crux) and really get those sections dialed in. After you reach the chains, re-climb sections as you're getting lowered down. Get it dialed!

- Ideally, find a belayer who is also psyched on projecting or at least extremely tolerant of hangdogging. And someone that you absolutely trust to catch dozens of falls!

- As you unlock beta and refine your sequence, take notes. Right down your beta, step by step. Much easier to visualize and remember your sequence if you take detailed notes on it. Even better if you can take videos! Can feel kind of dorky at first, but you'd be amazed how many little things you can notice that you need to improve when you see yourself on film

- As you start feeling like you've got your sequence figured out and are ready to put in serious redpoint goes, pay attention to where you're falling and why it feels like you're falling. So pumped you're falling off jugs? Sapped of power so you can't even complete sub-maximal moves? Feeling OK but just getting shutdown by 1 crux move that's too hard? Each of these might require different training (on plastic or on real rock) strategies to address

- Similarly, as you're making links, sometimes it can feel like you plateau at a certain high point, e.g., you can consistently make it to the last bolt feeling ok, but then always fall somewhere in the last crux. Sometimes it can be helpful to not just try to reach a high point, but also a "low point" -- climb up to a midway bolt, rest until you feel fresh, and then try to link through to the anchor. Next time, try it from one bolt lower, etc. This can help you practice the moves up top when you're fatigued, but not to the point where you're always falling at the same spot

I think most of this was covered in the PCC blog. Despite Odub's shoulder injury, I still think there's a lot of valuable information the PCC blog. Along with the Andersons, Bechtel and Maisch, one of the better climbing training sources out there IMO.

SplitDestiny
Sep 25, 2004


Climbed the East Buttress of El Cap this weekend and made great time since we simuled most of it. Then went and cragged in Tuolomne for the rest of the weekend because it got way too hot by noon in the valley.

https://vid.me/sMFi

Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008


Sharks Eat Bear posted:

I think most of this was covered in the PCC blog. Despite Odub's shoulder injury, I still think there's a lot of valuable information the PCC blog. Along with the Andersons, Bechtel and Maisch, one of the better climbing training sources out there IMO.

I agree the blog has a lot of useful info, but I just get some really negative vibes about some of it when it comes to his mindset about other climbers and their training. At least in his older stuff he spends a lot of time making GBS threads on other people in his gym for what he thinks is not trying hard enough.

http://www.powercompanyclimbing.com/blog/2013/01/pushing-through-tweaks-twinges-and.html This is the blog post that really set me off, though. Maybe it's not as bad as I thought the first time I read it, but telling people to push through shoulder and finger pain is a terrible idea. The way I see it, I prefer the Andersons or someone who has a very objective approach vs a hothead attitude that's literally led to the author's shoulder reconstruction.

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Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


Dutymode posted:

I agree the blog has a lot of useful info, but I just get some really negative vibes about some of it when it comes to his mindset about other climbers and their training. At least in his older stuff he spends a lot of time making GBS threads on other people in his gym for what he thinks is not trying hard enough.

http://www.powercompanyclimbing.com/blog/2013/01/pushing-through-tweaks-twinges-and.html This is the blog post that really set me off, though. Maybe it's not as bad as I thought the first time I read it, but telling people to push through shoulder and finger pain is a terrible idea. The way I see it, I prefer the Andersons or someone who has a very objective approach vs a hothead attitude that's literally led to the author's shoulder reconstruction.

Fair enough, that's a pretty crappy post. I haven't read much of his stuff from before 2015.

His training content will never surpass his musical content, for sure (ignore the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgPBCup56M#t=240s

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