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  • Locked thread
AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


I've been reading the LNs / reading spoilers, and the AIM burst from Railgun season 1, might turn out to be important or something.

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JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


Episode 12 - The Sisters continue to be the best part of this series. I love their sense of humor.

"Dog." "Tokugawa Ieyasu". "Schroedinger". "Deferred".

Do they get a spin-off series of their own?

Pensive
Oct 31, 2012


JosephWongKS posted:


Do they get a spin-off series of their own?

A Certain Sarcastic Hive-mind?

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


Pensive posted:

A Certain Sarcastic Hive-mind?

That is the best name and must become a show.

Dan7el
Dec 7, 2008



I didn't watch Railgun Season 1, but I did just recently more or less finish the whole light novel series. I didn't read all the side stories. Here are some bits of information, thoughts, and light novel spoilers regarding Mikoto and Touma:

Bits of Information:

1. As far as I can tell, there is never really any reason given as to why the level 6 project began or is important. My best guess is that the difference between a level 5 and theoretical level 6 is probably like the difference between an F5 and theoretical F6 tornado. Maybe an order of magnitude? We only know the Tree Diagram super-super-super computer calculated how this could happen, and people in Academy City got the project going:
___a. We don't know who will profit or why.
___b. We can assume the project is super-secret because:
______i. Cloning is more or less illegal by international convention.
_____ii. The killing of said clones would also be highly illegal and immoral by any convention.

2. Most of the characters introduced and developed in this Railgun series are not mentioned much in the primary series. I think some of the side stories focus somewhat on some of them, though. Mikoto in fact, is only one of many girls developed in the main To Aru series. She probably gets the most overall development, though.

3. As indicated by a couple of things in this series, there is a "dark side" to Academy City. About half of the level 5's are somehow involved in the dark side, including Mugino who is part of the ITEM team. Mikoto seems to have either side-stepped this involvement altogether, or is totally not interested in it. She generally leads a "good", and "clean" life as a top-member of what is most-likely the top-most all girls middle school in the City.
___a. There is never any indication about how people like Mugino got involved in these dirty deeds or why.

In this universe, there are two primary means of paranormal powers: magic and esper. Now we're delving into the world of light novel spoilers. Note, I will keep my information "general" and not specific as to what happens to any particular individual. This information is all more or less how the author did his world building.
::Light Novel Spoilers Ahead::

1. Aleister Crowley is like a hundred years old or older and possibly the most knowledgeable and powerful magic user of all time. Other magic users hunted him down and almost killed him. The frog-faced doctor (who is also very old) saved his life and together they moved to Japan and developed a new branch of paranormal power development -- espers -- and built Academy City.
___a. Esper powers are a new paradigm designed to possibly supplant magic.
___b. Only the people at Academy City know how to turn someone into an esper. There are some, ultra rare, natural espers called "gemstones" that exist, but the bulk of the espers in existence are all from Academy City and all because of some mysterious process that only Academy City can perform on someone that causes them to become esper.
______i. Touma had this process done to him. Initially, all espers start out at level 0, like Touma, but are given training and opportunity to develop past that.
_____ii. Once the process is performed on a person, that person can no longer safely practice magic. They can perform magic, but it will cause them to injure themselves and eventually die.
____iii. The teachers and instructors generally do *not* have this process done to them. Therefore, they can perform magic. They generally don't.
___c. Aleister Crowley has a hidden agenda apart from the overall development of esper powers. His end goal is never revealed, but I get the idea it has something to do with a development past both esper and magic abilities.

2. The magic side generally can't leave well enough alone and wish for either the total destruction of Academy City and all it stands for or to have Academy City come under their control. This desire is the genesis for the majority of the conflicts Touma gets himself involved with, including taking care of Index, etc.
___a. Many of the conflicts involve evil magic users coming into Academy City only to be stopped by Touma and Company -- often ending in a punch to the face.
___b. Touma and Company do get to travel abroad a bit as well. Touma punches faces all over the world.
___c. Touma inadvertently develops a "Kamijou Faction" -- a group of people who more or less follow him in his endeavors. Both magic and esper groups consider his faction both powerful and threatening. This faction consists of both magic and esper users.

3. While Index herself is fairly idiotic, her importance to the magic-side can't be underestimated. She contains the total sum of all the magical works known -- some 103,000 grimoires. The fact she's allowed to "roam free" at all is significant. The fact those who are "in charge" allow her to live with Touma is significant. He is more or less her keeper. While Index can't willingly manipulate magic, she has an automatic defense mode built into her psyche called the "John's Pen" mode. It's never described how or why she has this mode, but when it's activated, she is no longer herself and it's best to run and hide.

It's kind of a shame that the author doesn't do more with Index because she's actually very knowledgeable and when push comes to shove, she's able to come through on her own. Unfortunately, the author focuses so much on Touma that Index becomes nothing more than a whiney, biting side-kick who doesn't do much and doesn't seem to be worth much.

4. Sister number 10031 is the last Sister that Accelerator kills. Therefore, there are 9968 Sisters alive plus Last Order (Sister 20001) that are very much part of the story. After the Level 6 Project is abandoned, the Academy City sends out all but five or so of the Sisters to various parts of the world. The LN refers to these Sisters as Military Clones. Aleister uses them for various nefarious and not-so-nefarious purposes. Touma encounters a few on his various travels.

I would hope that if there are any further Railgun series seasons, that we'd focus on the large amount of times that Mikoto doesn't spend with Touma. For the most part, he spends most of his adventures outside of her presence; although, she does become more involved with him in the later LNs. Also, I would hope we see more of what the Sisters are up to. We do get some reports of things they've done while following Touma around the globe, but I'm sure there's a gold mine that can be used for series fodder available there.

arisu
Apr 11, 2003


On another note of the light novels (no real spoilers), it should be said that so far through the series, nobody has seen just how powerful Misaka actually is. In some of the later novels, she finally gets to cut loose and unleash her inner . I would give a pinky to see those later fights animated. Unfortunately those would be part of the Index series, and not Railgun.

Basically put her in a fight with some of the most powerful people in the world (who isn't a walking video game cheat mode like Accelerator is), and it's kind of crazy the stuff she pulls off.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Dan7el posted:

I didn't watch Railgun Season 1, but I did just recently more or less finish the whole light novel series. I didn't read all the side stories. Here are some bits of information, thoughts, and light novel spoilers regarding Mikoto and Touma:

Bits of Information:

1. As far as I can tell, there is never really any reason given as to why the level 6 project began or is important. My best guess is that the difference between a level 5 and theoretical level 6 is probably like the difference between an F5 and theoretical F6 tornado. Maybe an order of magnitude? We only know the Tree Diagram super-super-super computer calculated how this could happen, and people in Academy City got the project going:
___a. We don't know who will profit or why.
___b. We can assume the project is super-secret because:
______i. Cloning is more or less illegal by international convention.
_____ii. The killing of said clones would also be highly illegal and immoral by any convention.

2. Most of the characters introduced and developed in this Railgun series are not mentioned much in the primary series. I think some of the side stories focus somewhat on some of them, though. Mikoto in fact, is only one of many girls developed in the main To Aru series. She probably gets the most overall development, though.

3. As indicated by a couple of things in this series, there is a "dark side" to Academy City. About half of the level 5's are somehow involved in the dark side, including Mugino who is part of the ITEM team. Mikoto seems to have either side-stepped this involvement altogether, or is totally not interested in it. She generally leads a "good", and "clean" life as a top-member of what is most-likely the top-most all girls middle school in the City.
___a. There is never any indication about how people like Mugino got involved in these dirty deeds or why.

In this universe, there are two primary means of paranormal powers: magic and esper. Now we're delving into the world of light novel spoilers. Note, I will keep my information "general" and not specific as to what happens to any particular individual. This information is all more or less how the author did his world building.
::Light Novel Spoilers Ahead::

1. Aleister Crowley is like a hundred years old or older and possibly the most knowledgeable and powerful magic user of all time. Other magic users hunted him down and almost killed him. The frog-faced doctor (who is also very old) saved his life and together they moved to Japan and developed a new branch of paranormal power development -- espers -- and built Academy City.
___a. Esper powers are a new paradigm designed to possibly supplant magic.
___b. Only the people at Academy City know how to turn someone into an esper. There are some, ultra rare, natural espers called "gemstones" that exist, but the bulk of the espers in existence are all from Academy City and all because of some mysterious process that only Academy City can perform on someone that causes them to become esper.
______i. Touma had this process done to him. Initially, all espers start out at level 0, like Touma, but are given training and opportunity to develop past that.
_____ii. Once the process is performed on a person, that person can no longer safely practice magic. They can perform magic, but it will cause them to injure themselves and eventually die.
____iii. The teachers and instructors generally do *not* have this process done to them. Therefore, they can perform magic. They generally don't.
___c. Aleister Crowley has a hidden agenda apart from the overall development of esper powers. His end goal is never revealed, but I get the idea it has something to do with a development past both esper and magic abilities.

2. The magic side generally can't leave well enough alone and wish for either the total destruction of Academy City and all it stands for or to have Academy City come under their control. This desire is the genesis for the majority of the conflicts Touma gets himself involved with, including taking care of Index, etc.
___a. Many of the conflicts involve evil magic users coming into Academy City only to be stopped by Touma and Company -- often ending in a punch to the face.
___b. Touma and Company do get to travel abroad a bit as well. Touma punches faces all over the world.
___c. Touma inadvertently develops a "Kamijou Faction" -- a group of people who more or less follow him in his endeavors. Both magic and esper groups consider his faction both powerful and threatening. This faction consists of both magic and esper users.

3. While Index herself is fairly idiotic, her importance to the magic-side can't be underestimated. She contains the total sum of all the magical works known -- some 103,000 grimoires. The fact she's allowed to "roam free" at all is significant. The fact those who are "in charge" allow her to live with Touma is significant. He is more or less her keeper. While Index can't willingly manipulate magic, she has an automatic defense mode built into her psyche called the "John's Pen" mode. It's never described how or why she has this mode, but when it's activated, she is no longer herself and it's best to run and hide.

It's kind of a shame that the author doesn't do more with Index because she's actually very knowledgeable and when push comes to shove, she's able to come through on her own. Unfortunately, the author focuses so much on Touma that Index becomes nothing more than a whiney, biting side-kick who doesn't do much and doesn't seem to be worth much.

4. Sister number 10031 is the last Sister that Accelerator kills. Therefore, there are 9968 Sisters alive plus Last Order (Sister 20001) that are very much part of the story. After the Level 6 Project is abandoned, the Academy City sends out all but five or so of the Sisters to various parts of the world. The LN refers to these Sisters as Military Clones. Aleister uses them for various nefarious and not-so-nefarious purposes. Touma encounters a few on his various travels.

I would hope that if there are any further Railgun series seasons, that we'd focus on the large amount of times that Mikoto doesn't spend with Touma. For the most part, he spends most of his adventures outside of her presence; although, she does become more involved with him in the later LNs. Also, I would hope we see more of what the Sisters are up to. We do get some reports of things they've done while following Touma around the globe, but I'm sure there's a gold mine that can be used for series fodder available there.



3-Index, having all the grimoires in her head, technically qualifies as a Majin, a Magic God. Sort of the Magic Side's equivalent to a Level 6 esper. John's Pen is there to control her in the event that she realizes she can use magic and completes the process. It can take over her consciousness and forcibly invoke the state in a controlled manner. Touma is probably one of the only people who can stop her if she DOES become a Majin, now that John's Pen had been broken.

4-The Sisters are acting as the network control basis and the field propagation mechanism for the Artificial Angel project.

Redcrimson
Mar 3, 2008

Second-stage Midboss Syndrome


Oh, well... it fun while it lasted. Yay, more fanservice

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


"There will be plenty of fanservice, so please look forward to it."

No. No I will not.

Cubemario
Apr 3, 2009



Welp, hopefully this doesn't drag on too long. It's a bit uncomfortable because that article fails to specify if it's a single episode or more.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen


Relambrien posted:

I agree, I am extremely glad that I was wrong about how the stupid fanservice was likely to continue (watch me eat my words this week or something).

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


Relambrien posted:

I agree, I am extremely glad that I was wrong about how the stupid fanservice was likely to continue (watch me eat my words this week or something).

We're all so very sorry.

Lucy Heartfilia
May 31, 2012





Hahahha, gently caress the anime industry.

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?


Something to note from episode 12. It seems that (spoilers) 10032 is the MISAKA that finds the black kitten rather than 10031 now. Slight retcon perhaps but I like it. Also, Accelerator killed the poo poo out of those thugs..

Dan7el
Dec 7, 2008



Falken posted:

Something to note from episode 12. It seems that (spoilers) 10032 is the MISAKA that finds the black kitten rather than 10031 now. Slight retcon perhaps but I like it. Also, Accelerator killed the poo poo out of those thugs..
The difference between the two Sister's confused me a lot at first. To be clear (I think I'm correct in this), the Misaka that Touma initially meets along with Mikoto at the park bench right after Kuroko leaves is Misaka 10031. Mikoto hurriedly grabs her clone and moves off with her. The Sister that shows up almost immediately afterward is Misaka 10032. She's the one that helps him bring the drinks to his dorm and de-fleas Index's cat. 10032 is also the one Touma spends all his time with in this current episode -- with the black cat, bookstore, etc.

(Anime and LN Spoiler) Accelerator kills Misaka 10031 in the alley. Touma stumbles upon her bloody remains. So, while Touma only briefly met Misaka 10031, it's 10032 that he has the most interactions with. 10032 may be the Sister he interacts with most. They never explain why the hell the Sisters that remain in Academy City still need to dress identically to Mikoto. They even change from summer to winter uniforms and such, but they don't attend her school. I'm guessing to pass off as Mikoto?

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?


It's probably also to cause Mikoto less trouble. Tokiwadai demands that their students wear the uniform after school and on off days, exceptions being extended school holidays. A MISAKA clone takes a liking to tanktops and daisy dukes, gets seen and then Mikoto is in a world of dislocated necks from the dorm supervisor.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010


Volume 6 of the Railgun manga offers this explanation to show when it's 10031 and 10032. Spoilers, obviously.



The Wiki even has a goddamn page regarding the 10031 / 10032 distinction. Again, the page contains spoilers.

It's also pretty amazing how fast Accelerator goes through the Sisters. I mean, it's only been like five days since he killed 9982.

Redcrimson
Mar 3, 2008

Second-stage Midboss Syndrome



I cannot express how disappointed I am that it is not called "A Certain Anime Wiki"

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3



College Slice

JosephWongKS posted:

Episode 12 - The Sisters continue to be the best part of this series. I love their sense of humor.

"Dog." "Tokugawa Ieyasu". "Schroedinger". "Deferred".

Do they get a spin-off series of their own?

"Why are you walking away from the cat that is clearly in need of help. Says Misaka outraged."

The best was: "Its a cat. But its named Dog. Huehue."

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


I prefer this over dragging out Touma's part actually. Especially if the sisters are involved.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


I hope their fanservice includes various Sisters being silly/awesome. That would make it entirely worth it.

Anime_Otaku
Dec 6, 2009


Yeah I think if it's along the lines of the Girls und Panzer OVA Water War it could be worth watching especially with some Sisters wandering about. Heck I thought the season 1 episode with the virtual beach was pretty amusing too, though I sense I'm in a clear minority feeling that way.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Raenir Salazar posted:

"Why are you walking away from the cat that is clearly in need of help. Says Misaka outraged."

The best was: "Its a cat. But its named Dog. Huehue."

Schrodinger. Heh.

UP AND ADAM
Jan 24, 2007

Tempered by the fires of Hell,his iron will remained steadfast through the passage that preys upon the weak. For alone he was the Hell Walker who sought retribution in all quarters and he hunted the slaves of Doom with barbarous cruelty




I don't want to defend the artistic validity of most of Railgun 1, but I did appreciate when all the characters had some kind of input and arc throughout the storyline, instead of just being sounding boards for Misaka's mental state. Maybe the heaviness of the current arc will pay off though.

Poke
Mar 1, 2004


Can someone tell me what happens to the researcher who tried to help Misaka during her raid on all of the buildings associated with the experiment? I read as far as I could go with the translated manga but it never says what happens to her after she gets captured.

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


Poke posted:

Can someone tell me what happens to the researcher who tried to help Misaka during her raid on all of the buildings associated with the experiment? I read as far as I could go with the translated manga but it never says what happens to her after she gets captured.

tonberrytoby posted:


Manga Spoiler. No, she is never heard from again.

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?


Just remember that even though everyone considers Accelerator (index spoilers) one of the good guys, eventually... he blows someone's jaw off with a shotgun at point-blank range, and then crushes them in an industrial trash compactor. Also, kills someone via hot steam.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


^^
I'd think it's never been in doubt that Accelerator is a psycho. He's just fighting on the side of the good guys. Doesn't change who he is.

Bakanogami
Dec 31, 2004




Grimey Drawer

I just got caught up on the last few pages of this thread and boy has it gotten in here.

veekie posted:

^^
I'd think it's never been in doubt that Accelerator is a psycho. He's just fighting on the side of the good guys. Doesn't change who he is.

Honestly I think Accelerator's character arc is one of the few bits of writing in Index that's done fairly well. He recognizes what he's done and tries to seek redemption for it, but the world just keeps throwing more poo poo at him. He doesn't have all the answers or is automatically in the right like Touma always is, and his transition from heartless killer to a good guy is nice and gradual.

If I got to change one thing about this series, I'd probably give the Sisters more gag time and SOL interaction with the other side characters outside of the few they generally do meet (Mikoto/Touma/Accelerator/etc.) They work really well and despite there being ten thousand of them they never seem to run into anybody else. Hell, even Last Order's only been in the same room as Mikoto for about ten seconds and it was never mentioned again.

Poke posted:

Can someone tell me what happens to the researcher who tried to help Misaka during her raid on all of the buildings associated with the experiment? I read as far as I could go with the translated manga but it never says what happens to her after she gets captured.

tonberrytoby posted:

Manga Spoiler. No, she is never heard from again.

I'm not sure if this is really good writing, really bad writing, signs that she'll come back in a later story, or if the author just forgot about her. In any event, if that's where it ends...Harsh.

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?


Well, there's alot of harsh poo poo in Index universe, such as (LN spoilers) Frenda's fate.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


It more or less tells you what happens already. People who go against the dark side of the city are never heard of again. Depending on their luck this might be complete servitude, lab rat or worse.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3



College Slice

Touma seems pretty tolerable thus far, at worst the whole interconnected continuality of it all makes up for it.

MISAKA #1 was pretty as she struck those poses, until she got accelerated across the room.

Wheezle
Aug 13, 2007

420 stop boats erryday


Hooray for Misaka runs through generic science facility breaking stuff scene #50000.

Why does every scene that we didn't already see in index seem like filler?

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3



College Slice

Wheezle posted:

Hooray for Misaka runs through generic science facility breaking stuff scene #50000.

Why does every scene that we didn't already see in index seem like filler?

Well, It was pretty awesome to see the "I don't give a flying gently caress anymore." expression she had with her just channeling pure rage into destroying poo poo, the other scenes are like amateur hour crap in comparison

For me the difference is in atmosphere.

Dan7el
Dec 7, 2008



Wheezle posted:

Why does every scene that we didn't already see in index seem like filler?
At this point, I'd have to agree. Having both recently watched the Index version of these events and read the LN, I was a bit confused at some of the additional exposition and scenery provided by this latest (episode 13) episode. Well, we didn't need to guess which Sister was 10031 and which was 10032. They spelled it out for us. I guess the whole shebang has been a major point of confusion for a lot of people, so the writers and producers decided to make it crystal clear.

I will say I was quite confused for a bit when reading the LN, but the scenario is cleared up for us further on. The author repeats himself multiple times per book. He will say stuff like, "Misaka Mikoto, the level 5 electromaster, ...." And then, in his next book, or perhaps next segment of the same book, "Misaka Mikoto, the level 5 electromaster, ...." The author eventually leaves very little that's not crystal clear in many cases by beating us over the head with the information, repeatedly.

Okay, so what are the writers doing? I think they're doing a really good job letting us see Mikoto get to the point where she realizes (Anime Spoiler) that there is no other way to stop the killings other than Mikoto herself dying. This is where Touma finds her when he meets up with her in the rail yard during Misaka 10032's battle with Accelerator. Mikoto is ready and willing to fight Accelerator, knowing she can't beat him and will die. The writers are bringing her to this point, and doing a fairly good job of it.

With filler.

ChronoReverse
Oct 1, 2009


Railgun only viewer here and it was a good episode for me. I'm appalled at how backed into a corner Mikoto is. It's not even fair (obviously).

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


ChronoReverse posted:

Railgun only viewer here and it was a good episode for me. I'm appalled at how backed into a corner Mikoto is. It's not even fair (obviously).

It is not accelerators fault someone jammed a gameshark into his infant skull and put in every single cheat code.

Falken
Jan 26, 2004

Do you feel like a hero yet?


I like the way they changed the sister's iris style from the flat emotionless grey to just like Mikotos. It makes Accelerator's doings seem worse because it looks like he's merrily murdering Mikoto over and over.

e: (Ep13 spoilers) This perspective of 10031's execution is so much more soul rending. Mikoto just loses her poo poo when she sees that happen.

Falken fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 6, 2013

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless


Dan7el posted:

Okay, so what are the writers doing? I think they're doing a really good job letting us see Mikoto get to the point where she realizes (Anime Spoiler) that there is no other way to stop the killings other than Mikoto herself dying. This is where Touma finds her when he meets up with her in the rail yard during Misaka 10032's battle with Accelerator. Mikoto is ready and willing to fight Accelerator, knowing she can't beat him and will die. The writers are bringing her to this point, and doing a fairly good job of it.

With filler.

If it's this good then it's not filler, it's a part of the plot given more depth than what we'd seen before.

And my favourite part is that it's actual "depth", like, they aren't trying to shove it in our faces just how desperate Misaka is, they show it rather than just tell us "she's really really desperate, guys, like seriously" the way the first Index anime did. It's a really interesting contrast that the exact same events are being told by people who actually understand what the word "subtle" means. And yes, I am aware of the irony of using the word subtle after the episode where they had a girl explode for no reason.

Falken posted:

I like the way they changed the sister's iris style from the flat emotionless grey to just like Mikotos. It makes Accelerator's doings seem worse because it looks like he's merrily murdering Mikoto over and over.

Also this. The flashbacks to how Accelerator gets roped into this experiment are an interesting angle I didn't think about at all, since I figured this would just be about Misaka's side of the story, but now with him and Touma this is a story with three perspective characters in it. That's pretty cool, I can dig it, please stop showing me Misaka dying over and over and over and over again

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AnacondaHL
Feb 15, 2009


(13) Why were the Sisters okay with showing Touma all of the clones and explaining in blunt detail what happened? They gave the passcode check, he failed... and then they treated him like he should know about the experiment anyways...? Was it because of his cancelling ability?

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