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Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Shofixti posted:

I'm in the same boat. My first choice would be a Haswell Thinkpad but I can't wait until September/October and Lenovo seems determined to make the release dates as opaque as possible. I might just suck it up and get an Air with boot camp.

Lenovo just announced the Thinkpad S531 but it comes with an Ivy Bridge chip. What were they thinking?

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Naffer posted:

Lenovo just announced the Thinkpad S531 but it comes with an Ivy Bridge chip. What were they thinking?

There's no i5 Haswell chip available yet, and if they put a Haswell chip in their ultrabook, they have to equip it with a touchscreen.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


How about just loving put it out there with haswell and to hell with the ultrabook marketing so they can take my money? Keep making chips intel, but gently caress you and stay out of arbitrary rear end bullshittery.

DeceasedHorse
Nov 11, 2005


I'm looking to pick up a laptop for when I return to school. I've more than learned my lesson on the whole never ever buy a gaming laptop thing, but a little extra horsepower for casual gaming either be nice. Beyond that, a decent screen and keyboard are very important to me as I have some eyestrain and ergonomics issues. I know that the current consensus seems to be to wait for Haswell but I'm looking to get something by August if possible. The think pad's durability is nice but apparently they have poor screens? And there doesn't seen to be a release date yet. I'm looking to spend between 600 and 1000. Would last year's macbook be a decent compromise? It looks like I could get one at the upper edge of my price screen and iv like the reliability, ergonomics, and screen. Not an osx fan but I guess boot camp might address that?

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

Using Windows on a Macbook isn't a good idea. Battery life goes to poo poo and it will run hot.

Sendo
Jul 26, 2011



Really close to buying the new Sony Vaio Pro 13" with the i5 Haswell after spending a decent amount of time using one today, I was really surprised at how thin and light it is (thinner/lighter than the new MBA) and it's really well built.

The only real downside is they went with the i5 with the higher base clock speed (1.6ghz) and HD4400 instead of the lower base clock speed (1.3ghz) and HD5000 that's in the MBA. However they are both selling at pretty much the same price here in Australia but the Vaio resolution is 1080p and the full size HDMI port is nice.

InstantInfidel
Jan 8, 2010

BEST I EVER SPENT

Sendo posted:

Really close to buying the new Sony Vaio Pro 13" with the i5 Haswell after spending a decent amount of time using one today, I was really surprised at how thin and light it is (thinner/lighter than the new MBA) and it's really well built.

The only real downside is they went with the i5 with the higher base clock speed (1.6ghz) and HD4400 instead of the lower base clock speed (1.3ghz) and HD5000 that's in the MBA. However they are both selling at pretty much the same price here in Australia but the Vaio resolution is 1080p and the full size HDMI port is nice.

If you like it and it suits your needs, get it. I recall reading an article on Anandtech that Sony unfucked themselves in a big way with regards to build quality, but now I can't find it.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Hadlock posted:

There's no i5 Haswell chip available yet, and if they put a Haswell chip in their ultrabook, they have to equip it with a touchscreen.
I seriously wonder how much being able to brand your product as an Ultrabook is actually worth these days. Especially with the touchscreen requirement, which I imagine ads not insubstantial costs to the machine (as well as causing all sorts of nasty second-order effects: do you really want to be supporting a laptop with a squishy matte screen that people are poking with their fingers?), it seems like a tough sell from a business perspective, especially since I can't see the touchscreen being a huge seller in some markets.

sigma 6
Nov 27, 2004

the mirror would do well to reflect further



DrDork posted:

I seriously wonder how much being able to brand your product as an Ultrabook is actually worth these days. Especially with the touchscreen requirement, which I imagine ads not insubstantial costs to the machine (as well as causing all sorts of nasty second-order effects: do you really want to be supporting a laptop with a squishy matte screen that people are poking with their fingers?), it seems like a tough sell from a business perspective, especially since I can't see the touchscreen being a huge seller in some markets.

I am really torn here. I want a wacom digitizer with the best CPU/GPU combo I can find. At the same time, most tablets are not good enough to paint at high res with photoshop, much less sculpt in zbrush.

So . . . go with a Samsung slate or a Lenovo Yoga or Surface Pro? The surface pro isn't really strong enough IMO.

A Yoga with a Haswell seems ideal but my real question is this:

Which slate/tablet/ultrabook with touchscreen is best for someone who wants to sculpt or paint on the go? Business applications are always going to be priority, but are tablets/transformers finally good enough for 3d modelers as well as 2d illustrators?

InstantInfidel
Jan 8, 2010

BEST I EVER SPENT

DrDork posted:

I seriously wonder how much being able to brand your product as an Ultrabook is actually worth these days. Especially with the touchscreen requirement, which I imagine ads not insubstantial costs to the machine (as well as causing all sorts of nasty second-order effects: do you really want to be supporting a laptop with a squishy matte screen that people are poking with their fingers?), it seems like a tough sell from a business perspective, especially since I can't see the touchscreen being a huge seller in some markets.

I think it's less about the branding and more about the subsidies Intel shovels your way, but the branding can't hurt. The market was trending towards small and light anyway, Intel just artificially sped up the process.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Yeah, these things are a pretty low margin business and the subsidies that Intel gives are probably pretty drat attractive to pad the bottom line.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

sigma 6 posted:

I am really torn here. I want a wacom digitizer with the best CPU/GPU combo I can find. At the same time, most tablets are not good enough to paint at high res with photoshop, much less sculpt in zbrush.

So . . . go with a Samsung slate or a Lenovo Yoga or Surface Pro? The surface pro isn't really strong enough IMO.

A Yoga with a Haswell seems ideal but my real question is this:

Which slate/tablet/ultrabook with touchscreen is best for someone who wants to sculpt or paint on the go? Business applications are always going to be priority, but are tablets/transformers finally good enough for 3d modelers as well as 2d illustrators?

In the current gen? I'd think about the Thinkpad X230T. They've been around in various forms for a long time, so at least you know that the physical design stuff will last without breaking, the cpu won't be throttled by bad thermals, and I know they have wacom digitizers. Though they only come with HD4000 and I think they're being replaced by other stuff with shakier track records next gen.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

InstantInfidel posted:

I think it's less about the branding and more about the subsidies Intel shovels your way, but the branding can't hurt. The market was trending towards small and light anyway, Intel just artificially sped up the process.
I guess, but on the other hand the subsidies can't be THAT large (bulk chips aren't really a huge margin product, either), especially after the touchscreen costs are factored in. And this time around, I have a hard time understanding why Intel would even need to bother with branding or subsidies or such things: all you have to do is look at battery life and IGP performance and it's hard to recommend anything from AMD.

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


sigma 6 posted:

I am really torn here. I want a wacom digitizer with the best CPU/GPU combo I can find. At the same time, most tablets are not good enough to paint at high res with photoshop, much less sculpt in zbrush.

If you want more performance you could get a... Fujitsu T902, which has a GT 630M.

Reviews have said that the Thinkpad Helix has a screen that seems very close to the touch surface. I'd also say the same thing of the Vaio Duo 11, which also had a perfectly accurate touchscreen all the way to the edges, instead of having inaccuracy in the last centimeter. Both are 11.6" 1920x1080, but CPU performance isn't great in either case. The Vaio Duo 13 with an i7-4650U, which has HD Graphics 5000, might be your best bet, as soon as it's released.

Schmetterling
Apr 1, 2011



Still looking at laptops for uni on ebay; which would be better for carrying around, the T430 or the X230? I'm leaning towards getting a Thinkpad of some sort, due to the proclaimed toughness. I want to drag this thing around Brisbane with me, so I can work on stuff whilst I get some walking in.

I've found a couple of too-good-to-be-true auctions for an X230 ($250, with Win7 32 bit?), but the cheapest (hopefully legit) X230 with a warranty (until 2016!) is this one for $1100, with the IPS screen, i7-3520M, 500gb harddrive, and 8gb RAM. Alternately, I could try bidding on this T430, which ends in three hours and is currently at $830. It has 8gb RAM, the 1600x900 HD+ screen, and a 500gb harddrive. It also supposedly has a warranty until 2016, which would be nice.

Yet another option is to buy one of these manufacturer refurbished T430's, each of which has a 6 month warranty, for $700 (i5-3320M, 8GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 14" HD+ screen) or $800 (i7-3520M, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 14" HD+ screen, and Nvidia NVS 5400M graphics). If I got the $800 one, I could maybe try upgrading the RAM myself, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be to do that.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

How much of a hurry are you in? I don't know about Australia but the NZ Lenovo site has done some pretty good deals over the past year so it might be worth keeping an eye on

My T430s with Nvidia graphics, the 1600x900 display, backlit keyboard, Intel wifi and a 128GB Samsung 830 was just over $1000NZD last year whereas that combo is currently $1770NZD

Schmetterling
Apr 1, 2011



dissss posted:

How much of a hurry are you in? I don't know about Australia but the NZ Lenovo site has done some pretty good deals over the past year so it might be worth keeping an eye on

My T430s with Nvidia graphics, the 1600x900 display, backlit keyboard, Intel wifi and a 128GB Samsung 830 was just over $1000NZD last year whereas that combo is currently $1770NZD

My course starts in August, and I'd like to have a laptop by then.

I've been checking the Australian Lenovo site, and the current end-of-financial-year sale has the T430 for $1300 with i5-3380M, Windows 8, 4gb RAM, 1366x768 screen, 320gb HDD, and one year warranty. A T430s matching what you listed would cost $1661AUD.

Fake edit: I'm playing with the Lenovo site, making the fanciest possible T430s, and it comes out to around $2000. However, upon adding Windows Home and Student, it suddenly drops down to $1736, an extra $300 saving. This is odd.

Real edit: Wow, there's some flash sale on, where if you make a customised laptop over $2000, it cuts off $500. If you can get it over $3000, it cuts off $1000!

Schmetterling fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jun 19, 2013

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Schmetterling posted:

Still looking at laptops for uni on ebay; which would be better for carrying around, the T430 or the X230?
Smaller is better. Get the X230! The T430S is nice but the X230 is reeeally small. Remember you can plug an 11 or 12 inch laptop into a 22" monitor when you get back to your room/desk.

Schmetterling posted:

I've found a couple of too-good-to-be-true auctions for an X230 ($250, with Win7 32 bit?)
New to eBay?

Schmetterling
Apr 1, 2011



Bob Morales posted:

Smaller is better. Get the X230! The T430S is nice but the X230 is reeeally small. Remember you can plug an 11 or 12 inch laptop into a 22" monitor when you get back to your room/desk.

I already have a desktop in my room, but I do like the idea of a tiny little laptop. I could get a cute bag for it!

quote:

New to eBay?

What do you mean?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Schmetterling posted:

What do you mean?

Because those prices will only go up - if you want to look at what they're actually selling for instead of what the current bid happens to be at, look at recently ended auctions for laptops.

Schmetterling
Apr 1, 2011



Bob Morales posted:

Because those prices will only go up - if you want to look at what they're actually selling for instead of what the current bid happens to be at, look at recently ended auctions for laptops.

Forty minutes left and this one is still at $400 inc shipping.

I'd bid, but I'm wary of the 32 bit Windows.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Schmetterling posted:

Forty minutes left and this one is still at $400 inc shipping.

I'd bid, but I'm wary of the 32 bit Windows.

Usually all the bidding happens right at the end.

Install 64-bit Windows - you can still use the same key.

Schmetterling
Apr 1, 2011



Bob Morales posted:

Usually all the bidding happens right at the end.

Install 64-bit Windows - you can still use the same key.

The key works the same? Neat.

Now I can't decide whether or not to bid. There's no warranty, but on the other hand, I found some online instructions for upgrading the RAM in an X230 at home, which could be fun.

EDIT: and it goes under the wire at $560 total. Very, very cheap, but I feel a bit suss about the whole thing. The guy has an identical second one up too for another 20 minutes, but I don't think I'll risk it.

I just wish I could afford to take advantage of the weird flash sale on the Lenovo site.

Schmetterling fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jun 19, 2013

hooah
Feb 6, 2006
WTF?

For someone who isn't as concerned about exterior/case durability, would one of Lenovo's IdeaPad ultrabooks be something to reasonably consider vs. the X230?

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

hooah posted:

For someone who isn't as concerned about exterior/case durability, would one of Lenovo's IdeaPad ultrabooks be something to reasonably consider vs. the X230?

They seem pretty unremarkable and there are better consumer ultrabooks out there. Outside of the Thinkpad line, Lenovos are pretty hit and miss in terms of quality, value, etc..

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Schmetterling posted:

EDIT: and it goes under the wire at $560 total. Very, very cheap, but I feel a bit suss about the whole thing. The guy has an identical second one up too for another 20 minutes, but I don't think I'll risk it.

If it's new in box, or new refurb in box, I wouldn't worry about it.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Bob Morales posted:

Smaller is better. Get the X230! The T430S is nice but the X230 is reeeally small. Remember you can plug an 11 or 12 inch laptop into a 22" monitor when you get back to your room/desk.

This is the correct recommendation. x230 is a super sturdy laptop, I <3 mine, it travels internationally all the time without any problems.

sigma 6
Nov 27, 2004

the mirror would do well to reflect further



Cream_Filling posted:

In the current gen? I'd think about the Thinkpad X230T. They've been around in various forms for a long time, so at least you know that the physical design stuff will last without breaking, the cpu won't be throttled by bad thermals, and I know they have wacom digitizers. Though they only come with HD4000 and I think they're being replaced by other stuff with shakier track records next gen.

Thank you. Hadn't looked at the Thinkpad X230T yet. Those specs are nice but the HD4000 is almost a deal breaker. 3d software is known to always run better on a Nvidia GPU. At least the software I use. Anybody know if the wacom digitizer is 512 or 1024 or more levels of sensitivity? The fact that has an I7 and up to 16gigs of ram plus a Wacom digitizer makes that really tempting though. Nice battery life too.

Really a shame that is being replaced with something worse.

shrughes:

That Thinkpad Helix seems pretty close to the X230 but you are paying a lot more for the I7 variant and you are capped at 8gigs for the ram. I have to wonder if it is better to have a detachable keyboard, or a screen that "transforms". Seems like both would be fine for zbrush since zbrush only cares about CPU and RAM, not GPU.

Those Helix models aren't even shipping yet and they are using 3rd gen Intel chips.
Seems like they would be one of the models which could really use the Haswell boost since the GPU is integrated.

Are the Ultrabooks all required to have certain specs? (touchscreen, battery life etc.)

sigma 6 fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 19, 2013

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!

sigma 6 posted:

Are the Ultrabooks all required to have certain specs? (touchscreen, battery life etc.)

The Ultrabook specs are set by Intel and they change every year. This next generation of Ultrabooks are required to have touchscreens while the last generation was not.

hooah
Feb 6, 2006
WTF?

Cream_Filling posted:

They seem pretty unremarkable and there are better consumer ultrabooks out there. Outside of the Thinkpad line, Lenovos are pretty hit and miss in terms of quality, value, etc..

What other recommendations do you have around $700? Battery life, a reasonable amount of power (my netbook gets bogged down way too often with just Chrome open), and reliability are what I'm looking for.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Bob Morales posted:

Smaller is better. Get the X230! The T430S is nice but the X230 is reeeally small. Remember you can plug an 11 or 12 inch laptop into a 22" monitor when you get back to your room/desk.

Also battery life is going to be much better on the X230. My T430s is fairly disappointing in that regard.

sigma 6
Nov 27, 2004

the mirror would do well to reflect further



Calidus posted:

The Ultrabook specs are set by Intel and they change every year. This next generation of Ultrabooks are required to have touchscreens while the last generation was not.

Hmmmm . . .

Are current touchscreens as good as a Wacom digitizer?
Here is a review of the X230T on Autodesk's Area site.

http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/poin...ad-x230t-review

(No middle mouse button!)

Does anyone know of a tablet or transformer with Nvidia GPU AND wacom digitizer?
Or better yet, one that will have a Haswell in it soon?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



dissss posted:

Also battery life is going to be much better on the X230. My T430s is fairly disappointing in that regard.

Do you have the 9 cell battery (or whatever the big one that sticks out the back is)

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

hooah posted:

What other recommendations do you have around $700? Battery life, a reasonable amount of power (my netbook gets bogged down way too often with just Chrome open), and reliability are what I'm looking for.

I mean there's some suggestions in the OP but I can't vouch for them personally. I never liked ultrabooks and most people I know bought mostly first gen ones and have lots of complaints compared to the standards of a Macbook Air or a thinkpad. If it was me in your price range and I cared about reliability and durability, I'd go x230 (assuming you live in the US).

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Bob Morales posted:

Do you have the 9 cell battery (or whatever the big one that sticks out the back is)

The 6 cell is the biggest available option on the 's' - the battery sits beneath the palm rest so there isn't anywhere for a bigger battery to protrude from.

There is an ultrabay battery available but its expensive and only quiet low capacity (plus I'm thinking of sticking a big hard disk in the bay)

Mirconium
Aug 1, 2009


How is the build quality on the Toshiba Satellites? I am looking at the P50, but if the reviews are to be believed the build is not all that sturdy.

Are there other dumb things I should know about them too? Like do the have horrendous heat problems or whatever? Basically I need a laptop soonish and don't want to wait for a Thinkpad Has well refresh, so I was hoping to find some decent but still cheap alternative.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Toshiba Satellites are, indeed, of questionable build quality. Anything a laptop maker slaps the label of "Everyday Value" on should immediately be assumed to be cheap plastic junk. If you really cannot wait for a ThinkPad Haswell, consider picking up a current ThinkPad as the sales inevitably ramp up. There aren't a whole lot of "cheap but decent" Haswell laptops out yet.

netcat
Apr 28, 2008


Quick question: I'm probably going to get the x230 but it looks like I can choose between Windows 7 or 8. Is the win8 support decent for the x230 or should I just go for 7?

CaladSigilon
Sep 11, 2001

Friends don't left friends do ECB

Dinosaur Gum

I am in the market for another laptop after my Sony is finally biting the dust after five long, hard years of work.

I'm looking for a laptop probably in the 13" range - light but sturdy is very important - and I think I'd like the power-savings of Haswell.

I've been eyeing the newest Sony's, and thinking of maybe waiting for the X Carbon to get Haswell in 2-3 months, but touch screens are just an annoyance to me (I don't use them and they gently caress up the picture), and I'm worried that everything in this size will have one. Is there any company that told Intel to go gently caress themselves re: the ultrabook spec? Should I just deal with it?

Any other suggestions?

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Michael Scott
Jan 3, 2010

by zen death robot


Don't by Asus -- I bought a laptop from them like 5 years ago, and they stopped updating drivers to work with their custom onboard video/dedicated video card setup. Regular nVidia drivers cause the laptop to crash to a halt completely, and they stopped providing updated modified drivers in 2009. So my video drivers are from 2009, and I can't update.

It struggles with even brief HD content, and crashes nearly every time I try to watch a flash video over 5 minutes or so.

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